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Dealers Too Busy For OnLine Shoppers

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  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    After sending my "follow-up" message to the internet person, he (or she) did immediatly respond that they would give me a price...which they did several minutes later...plus they advised me they have "NO ADDITIONAL" charges except tax and tags. I emailed them back that I would be ove to see and test the vehicle.
  • sbell4sbell4 Member Posts: 446
    Internet managers usually have several blanket form letter emails they use as a first contact reply. That is probably what happened.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    Yes, the first message was a "blanket letter Email" that said they would follow-up. It was the follow-up message that didn't give me the price; however, it all worked out AOK.
  • griiinnnnnddergriiinnnnndder Member Posts: 1
    after sending an email stating explicity and exactly what you want a price on..

    and they don't respond or you get some hokey form letter, saying something like "come on down so we can find out exactly and explicity what you want a price on, blah, blah..."

    Now you know what dealers ARE a waste of your time, since if they were a competive, serious car dealer instead of a sucker shop...

    they wouldn't be responding with a stupid, non-sensical response for suckers.

    Allowing you to Instantly get rid of the vulture-like, non-serious, non-competetive car dealers...

    - just by touching the delete button .
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    I would not ignore a dealer just because they would not respond to my email.

    As long as the dealer had a car that I wanted to buy, I would be happy to go there and make an offer.
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    Interesting discussion. I sent emails to three dealers today with Chevy Cargo vans listed in their inventory via GMBuypower.com. I'm ready to order it on my credit card, we'll see if any of them get back to me.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    ...put a deposit down with your credit card, right? No dealer will let you buy an entire car with a credit card - the 2-3% fee would kill the profit.
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    I'd love to, but usually I'm told, "We don't give prices over the phone. You'll have to come in."
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Don't negotiate over the phone, Heywood. I think you will get a much better price if you visit the dealer in person with your checkbook in hand.

    When you visit, it might also help if you wore a checkered sport coat, white loafers, and a large gold chain. I have heard dealers give more respect to people who dress like they do.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ........ Hey Bobst, I think that was kind of a cheap shot .... what about my plaid pants.?!?

    Terry.
  • toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    I'll ditto that last message, but add the "sansabelt" pants too *LOL*

    If you can't laugh at the stereotypes in the business you're working in, you shouldn't be working in that industry.

    Ken
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    Laughing at them is one thing. Creating them is another. ;)
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Hi Terry,

    Do you also have a velvet picture of Elvis in your office? If not, get one. No customer would dare tell a falsehood with the King looking down at them.

    Bob
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ........ Not only do I have a picture of Elvis .. but I also have a picture from Disney of Goofy ......

    This way customers can remind themselves of how they sound sometimes .........



    Terry. ;)
  • tommctommc Member Posts: 66
    Last four new vehicles we've bought, do research for trim, options, pricing, etc. Go to gm buypower.com and find what we're looking for, go to the dealer and after formalities, give them an out the door price. Stick to it. Usually takes two or three visits to the "sales manager" but after about an hour we are signing papers. Everybody pretty well satisfied. Our problems really begin in the service department these days. Think we've actually bought our last new GM product because of this.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    to the same site, and after posting your zip code, it gives you the dealers within a certain scope, then you just click onto the vehicles you are looking for and you can even click on the window sticker to see exactly what options are on said vehicle. It even allows you to pre select what options you are looking for and then only those available vehicles will appear (although the selection on the 2005 models is pretty thin right now.
    After findind the exact model, color and options , you can then click on the GM Employee price,send out an email to that dealer and within 24 hours you usually get a reply. I found a dealer that was very up front..... no dealer add-ons... except for t/t&l. After receiving the reply from the dealer, I called the internet responder, we went over everything and he then even Emailed me a complete rundown of the pricing, including the t/t&l for a final out the door price. I accepted his offer even though he was a few miles futher away (30) than a closer dealer because of the "no add-on" policy and the promptness and honesty of his replies and cooperation.
    I did not have a trade-in and it was a cash transaction, which of course makes it a lot easier than if you have a trade-in..that's another ball game.
  • dakotashopperdakotashopper Member Posts: 14
    Well, I've been looking for about 3 months now for a used truck, mostly online but have also visisted about a 6-7 dealerships within 50 miles of my hometown. Still no luck. Here is what I'm running into and my situation.

    After driving several different makes and models, I know exactly what I want...a used Dodge Dakota quad cab, automatic, 4.7L/V8, under 75k miles, with CD player. All the other options I can live without; by that I mean, if it comes with power windows/door locks, great, but I'm much more interested in the mechanical condition of the vehicle, how it drives, and getting something in my price range. I'm looking at 2001-2002 models.

    Problem is I can't find one in my area that is within the Edmunds TMV or KBB price range. They are usually $2,000-$6,000 higher. And the BIG dealerships are often way over TMV or KBB. So I've tried extending my search range up to 300 miles or more, and searching online. But when I try to get a price quote via email, I'm usually just flat out ignored, or as expected get a high quote. If I can save $2,000 or more, it makes sense to make the drive. But I need to know what the price is before I make the drive.

    I'm more than willing to pay a fair price, but I don't think I should pay more than what the truck is worth either. I just didn't think it would be that hard. I'm a cash buyer with no need to finance. Just want to find the right vehicle at the right price. And the internet prices and even local dealerships vary so much in price (if I can get a straight answer), that I feel like someone's trying to screw me. It just doesn't seem like car salesman are willing to quote a fair price. Why would one dealership's price with the same year, make, model, options, and similar mileage be drastically different from another dealership?

    I guess I am just frustrated. Internet shopping is great for some products, but so far my experience in searching for a vehicle has been no fun online.
  • gregjohnsongregjohnson Member Posts: 117

    Well, I've been looking for about 3 months now for a used truck, mostly online but have also

    Problem is I can't find one in my area that is within the Edmunds TMV or KBB price range. They


    I'm with ya. Been looking at trucks for 4-5 months, tried private, tried dealers. Everybody's looking for a sucker.

    On a wild hair I called a number I saw on an old Suburban this afternoon (My target profile for a truck is very broad). Asked the guy what year, miles, price. He said it was an 88 with 120k. He said it had been on the market for a while, so he'd go lower than the $4,200 ask. ( That's what his son had said when he answered the phone... $4,000. My response was "Dollars? Are you sure? Can I talk to your Dad?")

    Mind you, Edmunds' "outstanding retail" on a loaded unit is $2,500. I didn't have that in front of me at the time, but I'd speculated the correct range for the vehicle was $1-2,000.

    You'd have thought I leaned over him to proposition his wife in church.

    It's very obvious people in general hunt through the guides and choose the highest price they can find before tacking on some "wiggle room" when they quote an ask. It's just as obvious they will be disillusioned at some point. I just haven't figured out how to be there at that point yet...

    Basically nobody wants my business - as soon as I sound vaguely knowledgeable I get shown the door. Thankfully I have a solid vehicle at the moment, I'd hate to have to buy something right now...

    -Greg

    BTW, having been firmly ensconced in IT since the 80s and having opined as recently as 2000 that "nothing worth my time happens offline" I now believe e-mail to be utterly useless outside an existing relationship. (i.e. one where you can get your fingers around the other guy's throat if need be) I consider it particularly dangerous with sales weasles who think nothing of lying to get you in the door.
  • dakotashopperdakotashopper Member Posts: 14
    Well Greg, at least it's reassuring I'm not the only one having a hard time. I also have a solid vechicle at the moment, so can also afford to wait it out.

    I was really wanting a Dakota because it is usually equipped with at least a 3.9 liter/V6, has real room in the back seats (as compared to more compact trucks like the Ford Rangers), and are easier to maneuver in parking lots (as opposed to full-size trucks). Looks like I'll have to broaden my search to again consider other makes and models, and start again at square one. :(
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    I'm having the same problems trying to find a low mileage 04 or 05 Toyota Corolla S model. When I see a vehicle that looks good, if the dealer isn't close, I send an email and try to agree on a price either via email or phone. I'm very specific with my request....."What's your best price, not including state fees for tax, tag, and title". So we eventually agree on a price and when I ask him to run the final OTD numbers, they tack on a $499 dealer fee.
    .
    I think my best bet will be to stay away from dealers entirely and buy off an individual. But most of them ask the same prices dealers do.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    FDR said, "If you have a problem, do someting about it. If it doesn't work, then do something else. If it does work, then do it again."

    You are having a hard time finding the car you want for a price you are willing to pay, so you better try something else. I suggest you either be willing to pay more or look for a different type of vehicle.

    Remember, car dealers do not have to charge a 'fair price'. They can charge whatever they want. You either have to pay what they want or go somewhere else. Them's the rules of car buying, and we wouldn't want it any other way.
  • gregjohnsongregjohnson Member Posts: 117
    I suggest you either be willing to pay more or look for a different type of vehicle.

    I suggest a Third Way: Keep What You Have

    If there is no room for negotiation on a buyer's part, if the buyer will eventually be forced into accepting terms dictated by a seller, why rush it? There will still be sellers asking $5,000 for 17-year-old Chevys when the buyers are finally forced into the market.

    If the sellers like their cars so much they probably don't really want to sell the cars, but rather to see how pretty they look all detailed and everything. I say the buyers should do the sellers a favor and let them keep their pretty cars a while longer - say until after President Rice's second term.

    -Greg
  • dakotashopperdakotashopper Member Posts: 14
    Well, I plan to keep my '95 Honda Accord or else sell it privately. It's still drives great and have had no problems with it, but it's going on 130k miles. Regardless, I am needing something bigger as I am now playing drums in a band and need something to haul my drumkit in for gigs. I haven't ruled out vans or wagons, but haven't seriously considered them. I have ruled out SUVs as they don't tend to provide much cargo room even with the seats down, or are really out of my price range.

    Just thought it wouldn't be so difficult to find a good reliable truck, with decent mileage, and cargo room in the $10-$12k range. And I don't need all the bells and whistles. It's been 11 years since I've been in the market for a vechicle, and trucks are much more popular than they used to be. And demand drives up price.

    I'll keep looking, but as stated previously, will reopen my search to include other makes and models. The Dakota series seems to be really hard to find in my area.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    And I don't need all the bells and whistles.

    Problem is, most cars today come with the bells standard, and most have the whistles too. Increases the base price. The days of the econobox are over.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't know where you are getting these numbers from.

    I have no use for a Surburban but in my neck of the woods, that truck would bring 3-4000 in a heartbeat if it's nice! If it's a 4WD it would bring a lot more.

    1-2000 dollars?????
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    I don't know where DAKOTASHOPPER resides or is shopping, but a Quad Cab V8 Dakota looks to be in rather short supply here in the ATL, based on the little bit of research I did.

    It appears the Quad Cab style was intro'd in 2000. The V8 came along in 2000 or 2001 (can't tell for sure). My guess is not a lot of that particular vehicle was built in those years, so the overall supply may be pretty tight.

    In many parts of the country, esp. rural ones, used vehicles far outsell new ones (that's true in general by about 3:1 but its even more pronounced away from the cities). I would think a truck like this would be in pretty solid demand at $10-15K so you're prolly gonna have to expand your choices, raise your price, or look much further away from home to find what you want.

    My local Truck Trader has 3 or 4 of that truck close to the price you want to pay. I'd start shopping big cities for a better selection and price. Otherwise, you're gonna have to take what you can get at home.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Member Posts: 188
    Well, what is a fair price? What is it worth? Have you made an offer? That is the key. If they accept, great. If not, you need to re-evaluate. TMV or KBB are guides. The more rare the vehicle, the less reliable. You stated a pretty specific vehicle. If there are not a lot of them out there, you'll have to ante up.

    One thing about internet pricing. I don't think it works w/ used cars. I'll blow a car out w/ internet pricing on a new car. On a used car, no. Research, yes. Pricing, no. Plus, you need to look, touch, feel a used vehicle to make sure it is up to your standards. Less of a need on a new car.

    If you want a great deal, you need to make an offer. If it isn't accepted, the offer is below what it is worth (to them). On a used car, I have an asking price. That is what I want to sell it for. If that is more than what you want to pay, offer me a price that you think is fair. If the seller is reasonable and the buyer is reasonable, a deal is born.
  • gregjohnsongregjohnson Member Posts: 117
    I don't know where you are getting these numbers from.

    As you know, none of the guides are particularly reliable, so I use Edmunds as a good first whack. KBB Blue retail is the absolute most any car on the planet might be worth if you really, really needed it right this second, say, to escape that flash flood. NADA is usually pretty solid, it's a tossup as to whether NADA or Edmunds has more credibility to me.

    My perspective on "fair value" is mostly derived from Edmunds data. I would prefer to use Manheim data, but for some reason they don't like to make that information publicly available.

    On the Suburban, I agree the miles are low, but did you catch that it was built during Reagan's 2nd administration? Since it's you asking, I just re-ran the numbers with every possible option on the highest trim available in average* condition:

    Edmunds: $ 730 / $1,177 / $1,978
    NADA: $2,650 / $3,725 / ---
    KBB**: $2,730 / $3,780 / $5,335

    So, while we don't have the details on this particular unit, remembering that this is with every single available box checked, the most anyone would ever pay for this class of car would be 5,3. Looks like Edmunds is a little low in this case, but I'd use it as a mod on the NADA price and hit an "average" 88 Suburban in Atlanta around $2, 2,5. Above my off-the-cuff guess, but not by a whole lot...

    Your initial post indicates this is probably low, but I'm sticking to it since this methodology is the worst possible way to price cars I've found, except for all the others.

    -Greg

    * I'm sorry, but I just don't see any 17 year old unrestored car being in anything better than "average" condition.

    ** Not including rear air, 2nd fuel tank, plow pkg or conflicting options.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You can stick to your methodology if you wish but that "burb would pull 4000.00 in a instant if I parked it on the street with a sign in the window!

    Maybe things are different where you live?
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ........ I gotta agree with Isell ... "unless" this beauty was hit by a few meteorite's and it's a rusted hulk with 200k, the interior looks like downtown Baghdad, the 4x4 has left town and we have smokin' hot breeze .. then it could see $4,000 in a dark and secluded driveway .......

    Terry ;)
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    ... is worth 4 grand. Try and find a 4x4 pickup for less than $5K.
  • gregjohnsongregjohnson Member Posts: 117
    No argument here at all, clearly you guys have a much better handle on the street value that I do. For what it's worth, I've never understood the premium trucks command, especially 4x4 trucks. Something about testosterone and sweat, I'm guessing.

    My point is that all three of the major price guides* hit this vehicle lower than you do, which implies some sort of "greater fool" strategy. I'm not anywhere near good enough to try that sort of play in a market as squirrely as cars, so I'll keep my powder dry...

    Are y'all sure you read the part about this being a 17 year old vehicle?

    -Greg

    * Except for KBB's retail fantasies.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    At the price of oil at present, and the fear and loathing rampant in the cities toward trucks that get low mileage, maybe shopping in the urban zone will soon get a far lower price for you. Make an offer-- low ball.
  • clarencehollowclarencehollow Member Posts: 60
    If a customers trade is SOOOO sweet and is worth all that and more, why would they give up any profit and trade it in? Customers SELL the dealers all the time. Bottom line is if you want to buy my 2005 new Malibu at GM employee price, and get $1,000's in rebates - you'll be getting kbb.com FAIR at best. If that trade goes to auction, there's no guarantee it'll sell .. maybe the 6th visit to the auction and after a $1000 repair bill. If we get out of it and lose $200 we'd be happy. That is why dealers value cars so low - it's REAL VALUE. Wholesale. Anything above that is RETAIL ... or whatever someone else thinks it's worth. KBB, NADA, Edmunds, Consumers ... do not have it all down, they are FOR PROFIT (period) and make a heck of a lot more money than any dealer will.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    1. That new Malibu is not yours, and it's not exactly the Hope Diamond either, and...
    2. Take a deep breath and let it out. Your average customer has about as much knowledge of car auctions and dealer operations as a golden retriever has of advanced mathematics.
  • cutehumorcutehumor Member Posts: 137
    I've only gotten 3 quotes out of 15 or so dealers that I emailed. I went to the lowest quote dealership yesterday and we are still working on the deal. I guess the other 12 who received my request thought it was a bad lead or they don't want to reveal quotes so I can use to bargain with. I prefer the email contact than going to dealership to dealership wasting 2-3 hours driving across town, negotiating the vehicle if the salesman throw in adv/doc fees that are excessive.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    ...I've had the same experience as you when it comes to email response. It all depends on the dealers in your area.
  • jayedjayed Member Posts: 1
    Hi everyone,

    I am a Internet/Fleet Manager for a local Dodge-Chrysler-Jeep stroe here in the San Diego area. I myslef get tons of emails a day and phone calls. We do get alot of bogus emails from people that are just playing around and bored. Also, we get people who are not ready for another month or two. The ones that are a month out or longer i do not mind quoting a price for, but the inventory, pricing, rebates and incentives change monthly. So the wuote I would give them now could be different next month. I do my best to get all of the leads answered and try to follow up with each person every day or two to see what is going on. Some people never respnond back others will rudely or say they are just about ready to make a decision. I treat all of my clients the same dignity, respect and attention no matter what. I have been on the other end before and if I do not get treated right, I will walk. I also try to see if i can contact the person within 24 hours to discuss their possible options on the car they are wanting just to put a voice with an email, but people just rather have email contact. Makes it hard to get to you if you do not answer our emails back after 2 months! :) So it has its ups and downs, just have to get ahold of a person in that department by phone and email, I promise you, you contact me, I will make life so much easier than what you have experienced. But as a customer, you need to make contact both ways to help insure you are being attended to. My average time from my customers come in for a car is 1 hour, they are in and out with the car they are looking for. Thanks for allowing me to try and explain the situation..any questions, please feel free to contact me.
  • jmurman42jmurman42 Member Posts: 675
    I get customers in all the time that say they send out 7-10 Internet inquiries and only receive a few back.

    Why do dealers even have websites if they aren't responded to?

    Then again I have customers that email asking for quotes every month for a year and then buy some where else...go figure!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    They will send out an inquiry then they won't respond back even after I've tried to cantact them three or four times.

    Then two months later, they are back using a different lead provider and they still don't respond?

    Guess they don't know or care that these "leads" cost us money!
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Correct. They don't care.
  • jmurman42jmurman42 Member Posts: 675
    Yeah...we just send them out and follow up.

    Yesterday I received an inquiry from a "J" with the last name "W"

    I called the person up and they were surprised "I thought we noted that we didn't want a phone call"

    "You did Maam...but I cannot respond to anyone with just a first initial and a last initial"

    "Oh..." then she gave me her name.

    Some people must live in a vaccuum, or think that we have ESP.
  • black_tulipblack_tulip Member Posts: 435
    ...or think that we have ESP.

    Didn't that person provide an email address? If they did not want a phone call(understandable), what did they say about their preferred method of communication?
    Initials are fine so long as a valid email address is provided.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    People who demand we communicate via e-mail rarely buy.

    Anyone who works in an internet department will confirm that. People who are serious don't mind a phone call.
  • black_tulipblack_tulip Member Posts: 435
    That may very well be. I guess I don't understand why a quote cannot be given without a full legal name. Initials plus a preferred mode of contact should suffice, in my opinion.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    How can I enter a customer into our system without a full name?

    In order for us to do any kind of quote for anyone we have to have a customer number assigned to the customer and then create a deal number to save in the details of the quote.

    You have to have a full name for this to work with our computer system.
  • black_tulipblack_tulip Member Posts: 435
    You have to have a full name for this to work with our computer system.

    That is a limitation of your computer system. Why should I worry, as a consumer, about the shortcomings of your system? And what is a full first or last name anyway? How many characters? What if my legal name is less than that number? What then?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Two characters for each, first and last name, is the limitation. If you only put in one character each then it errors.

    You can put whatever you want on an internet request but if you actually want to have a response to it then you should at the very least put your full name and correct email address. Yes, I have actually gotten internet requests with just a first name and either an imcomplete or incorrect email address.

    The majority of internet requests are completly worthless and sales guides know this. If I get a request that includes just an email and a first name only then my reply is going to be just as short. I will introduce myself, the dealership and ask that the person contact me via email or phone so that I can provide them with additional information. If you don't give me any information to work with then how can I help you? We are a very low volume dealership so we only get four or five internet requests a day but if we got ten times that then I would not even respond to the ones that gave me minimal information.

    Not that every request needs to have a full name, phone number, email and address but if all I have is an email and name then there better a fairly detailed request for information.

    Example of an internet request I got recently.

    Name both first and last
    no phone number but like I said that is ok with me if...

    free yahoo type email with a name something like snowprincess1989(hmhh probably not even 18 yet this does not look good)

    Vehicle Make you are intersted in: Land Rover
    Vehicle model you are interested in : Land Rover
    (ughh really not looking good)

    Comments: Blank (They actually wrote blank in the comments section since if you make no comments then nothing appears in that box)

    I sent an email asking which model Land Rover she was intersted in and I of course never got a response back.

    I don't see why there is this fear to provide information to the dealership. I mean when you actually buy a car they are going to want everything including your social security number.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    I just bought a Honda a couple of weeks ago. I bought it on a Friday evening, but stopped by the dealership the previous Tuesday to pick up a couple of brochures to show my wife, and to get the business card of a salesman.

    When the salesman came out to give me his card, he had me sit down at a computer terminal with him, where he asked for my name, what kind of vehicle I was interested in, if I would be financing, my day time phone #, etc... Everything he asked was pretty vague (never asked what kind of payment I was looking for, or anything about price), and he entered all of this into the computer. I didn't mind answering, as I was actually serious about buying.

    What was weird is that when I gave him my name and he entered it into the computer, he immediately repeated my address back to me and asked me if that was correct. Now I know there are online phone books, and that sort of thing, but I wondered if that program also gave him my property value and other info in order to "qualify me"?
  • mikezoomzoommikezoomzoom Member Posts: 69
    One of the most frustrating scenarios that my internet sales consultants deal with is the location of inquiries and requests.

    When an inquiry comes in from a zip code, area code, or city that we know has a local competing dealership... why should we give a skinny deal quote? It's pretty easy to read between the lines and realize what's going on.

    I get very tired of knowing our time and effort goes for not since the majority of these quotes get used as a "can you beat this?" to the more convenient dealership.

    Just an insight for consumers that wonder why they sometimes don't get quick and cut-rate quotes. Internet sales consultants do more than just sit there trying to earn a "mini" commission... they might actually be out pounding the pavement to earn a larger paycheck.

    ZOOM ZOOM
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