Dealers Too Busy For OnLine Shoppers

danf1

Do we need to change the expression now to "just bobst over to the next e-mail?"

bobst

Just like Paris Hilton, even the "Bobst method" can go out of style.

I'll let you know how it goes when we visit the dealer and pull out our checkbook. We could be surprised.

What did our Email say? My wife thought I should say, "Gimme a good price or I'll break your thumbs", but I toned it down a little. She still thinks she is in GLOW, where busting heads was SOP.

isellhondas

Wasn't meant to be insulting. It's just that we hear this every day.

" I just want a good price...I'm not going to shop you if it sounds good"

" I won't tell the other stores your number"

" I would never drive 50 miles to save 50.00"

" I feel indebted to you because you let me drive three cars and answered all of my questions on a busy Saturday".

" Oh....well....we "just happened" to be in that town and they just happened to have the exact car we wanted"

I've been in retail all of my life but only the car business has made me cynical.

driftracer

times I've seen that exact scenario. They always say "but I appreciate all you did, and I'll send someone to you, for sure!"

Yeah, that happens...

asafonov

Sounds like an impass... dealers will not give out prices by phone/email, and customers will avoid those that don't. Wonder what/who will give first...

driftracer

e-mail....but like Dan said, after culling through 900 leads a month and doing just that, they sell 5 cars - hardly worth the time.

jhs70

Understand the salesman frustration. In fact I will admit that, from their perspective, I've contributed to the "problem" from time to time. My question is, why not have the "internet presence" simply be a page on their website with "low prices", instead of it having to be e-mail driven? That way, it would take much less time out of the salesperson's time. In the DC area there are several dealers who do just that, and it gives me an excellent idea of who is willing to discount and how isn't. A dealer who VOLUTEERS low prices tells me a lot about who's interested in doing business. Some of you may scoff at this theory, but it in my limited experience it seems to hold true.

benderofbows

They'd probably be afraid that if they had such prices readily available on a web site that they'd never be able to sell cars for MSRP or close to.

But why not bounce them back via email? The people who request quotes are obviously looking for who's willing to make a deal.

Anything has got to work better than ignoring them or trying to just reel 'em inside.

midwesttrader

Someone said this earlier, "They are usually minideals but they help with the month end bonus."

A minideal means little profit for the dealer and nothing for the salesperson except credit for a sale. Internet buyers tend to be much more informed about all aspects of the car they're interested in, including the price they're willing to pay. Someone shopping using the automotive section of their newspaper is chum in the water.

Why fool with someone on the internet armed with information when a fat deal could be walking in the door?

driftracer

Why dedicate a person to, full-time, sort through hundreds of e-mails to try to find real buyers, and pay this person to sell 5 out of 900 people cars at mini deals, actually COSTING the dealership money?

Also, these (98%) aren't local people, so they'll never send you referral business, and never visit your service or parts department - for most dealerships, it's a losing proposition.

bobst

Drifty and Midwest, both of you asked "Why?"

Well, as a car buyer, I can't answer you.

However, from my recent experience, the dealers in our area answered my Emails with quotes very promptly. They must have found out that it increases their profit, or something like that.

The lowest two Email quotes were equal, so we went to the one closest to our hourse and bought a car yesterday.

driftracer

work at a REALLY big store, where you could pay a young person (or old person, no discrimination) $7-8 an hour just to cull through leads, and forward the real ones (probably 5%) to 2-3 sharp salespeople.

It's the culling process that takes a lot of time, and doesn't make sense to use a salesman who routinely makes $4-5k a month to do this - that's a good way to lose a salesman and tank profits, for sure.

manamal

How did this method compare to the 'bobst down the road' technique?

I am probably buyibng a new car in the next few hours. I took the price quote from the internet, and figured that was good enough for me.

driftracer

in case you haven't already, just confirm that there are no other fees and charges, other than the normal tax and license fees. If you haven't done business with these folks before, you may be surprised, and that always spoils a good deal.

bobst

One a Bobst, always a Bobst.

Of course, I didn't offer the price they quoted in an Email. We offered about $300 less, and asked for mud flaps, wheel locks, pin stripes, and two extra keys.

They refused, we walked out and started to get in our car, and the salesman came out and said they would accept the deal. So Bobst felt right at home.

Have fun driving your new car around Tyson's during the brief rush hour.

Bob

manamal

I have an OTD price. Hopefully, that will be the price. Otherwise, I walk (and will badmouth the dealer in the forum).

As for the Tsns rush hour traffic, I live in Vienna. Once I cross rt 7 (which can take 10 minutes), I am home in 7 minutes.

Kirstie_H

Of course, if they honor the quote OTD price and the process is relatively painless, you'll come back and sing their praises, right?

bobst

I thought a cool dude like you would be crusin' around Tysons like Harrison Ford in 'American Graffiti'.

danf1

Did the keys work in the doors and the ignition? This sounds like it was almost too easy for you Bobst. Did you enjoy it as much as previous purchases?

jasmith52

I was wondering if the Bobst method could be extended to other areas of our lives.

Perhaps the Extended Bobst Method (EBM for short) could be used to negotiate with everyday people like someone who cuts your hair, someone who mows your lawn, An upscale restaurant, Wal-Mart whatever

Maybe you could even use it when negotiating for services with a lady-of-the-night

The service oriented jobs (no pun intended) might suffer in the quality department though. So you'll have to weigh that in to the EBM if you try to use that.

kyfdx

We can make fun of bobst, but he just bought an Accord for $300 under invoice at the first dealer he visited...

I'm a little more flexible in my methods, but his sure seems to work for him...

isellhondas

I don't know what's with bobst and the extra keys?

I have sold over a thousand new Hondas and never once have I been asked for extra keys.

manamal

Wife did not like it; however, she fell in love with a forrester.

Sigh.

danf1

I think he once stated that if he only had two keys, he would be guaranteed to lose one. Also multiple drivers. I think he needs three keys and wants one backup.

stickguy

I like to have extra keys just in case. Much easier when you could go the the hardware store and make plenty. I actually just keep the valet as the spare in the house, and try not to lose the real ones.

manamal, you might be OK anyway. The turbo Forester is supposed to be quite the hot rod, if you can live with the style and less luxury.

You are also making the mistake I used to: showing my wife before I bought the car. Now I just bring it home, and she lives with it (she hardly ever is in it anyway).

Remember, "it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission"

stickguy

I agree that bigger dealer groups can support better 'net operations (like the group near me, Fitzmall, carsmack, etc.). The combo of an automated request system (for pricing) + a non-salesman support (admin basically) group takes care of getting internet pricing, stock availability, etc. handled.

Buyers don't get connected to a salesman until they say that they would actually like to come in and see the car. Supposedly non-negotiating, since the price is set. I imagine that they could also consumate the deal without a visit if they are satisfied with the price, etc.

The key, to me, is the front end. Accepting random blast emails can be a nightmare, and someone has to sort through them, figure out whats being asked, etc. The volume operations handle requests through an interface (pick the car/model/etc.), along with hits from Edumnds (get a quote), etc.

Interfacing with a salesman via email, once you are working directly with them, is a different matter, not really different than making phone calls.

bobst

Yep, Dan, we made sure the keys would work in the ignition. Have I told you about my experience buying a car in 1998 where, just before we wrote the check, I was told the keys would only work in the doors?

Jasmith, the famous Bobst method is NOT, I repeat ABSOLUTELY NOT, a method of negotiation.

It is only a way of stating a truth and asking a question: I will buy your product for this price. Will you accept?

Any answer other than a Yes is interpreted as a No, and the conversation is over.

I have learned that I can't make good decisions on the spur of the moment, so I refuse to negotiate when there is no reason to.

You know, growing old is kind of fun. Instead of wishing I was more like someone else, I am more and more happy being the kind of person I am.

bboy

Here's the real deal. The foolish dealer spends a bazillion dollars trying to sell new cars online. To fully leverage the internet, focus on USED cars. Take all that money that would be spent on new car garbage and spend it on resources in the dealership to take 8 pictures of every car in the store and then advertise them on multiple web sites: autotrader, carsdirect, cars.com, etc. That's where the real money is. When you get one of those leads, you have the buyers undivided attention because you are the ONLY one with that car. Brilliant! As for new car shoppers - a dealership has everything to lose and nothing to gain. I work at a dealership and I ran an experiment once. I did not respond to any new car leads for 30 days. At the end of the month, I bounced our sold customer list off of the internet leads list. Guess what - we still sold 15 cars to "internet" customers and we didn't respond once online. Of those customers, 80% of them walked in with a printed e-mail message from another dealer saying if we could match it, they would buy it from us. Too easy...

stickguy

is a fancy newspaper that doesn't make your hands dirty. When I was shopping recently for a Volvo, woalked in to the local dealer with the ad from one in PA, and the (grudgingly) figured out how to match it. They both advertise that they will match any competitors price.

I think they actually advertise low balls (that they probably on have one of) to pound the other guys inventory!

jlawrence01

Good idea.

However, would you *really* be willing to BUY a used car on the internet without giving it a good lookover?? I wouldn't. You might get me into the door if you were selling one of the models I was looking for.

Pictures do not cut it. I can't see the wear in the interior, all the dents, fixed repairs, etc.

I HAVE bought a car at a Cincinnati dealership from the internet in Chicago. However, my brother took care of all of the inspection, etc.

jasmith52

OK, I get it - no negotiation.

You approach the first call girl and before she can say anything, You say - ' Can you do this act for $1 (for example)? If they say no way, then you just walk up the street to the next call girl. You say, 'Can you do this act for $1.25' ?

This process repeats itself incrementing the price each iteration by 25 cents until either you get your lowball (no pun intended) or the vice squad nabs you.

Your process insures the best price and doesn't involve any negotiation.

- I think you've got it down Bobst !

driftracer

shopping for cars won't (usually) get your arrested and get your picture in the paper!

bobst

I think you have got it, my son. Now go forth unto the world and spread the joyful news that car-buying can be fun.

manamal

Well, I signed on the forrester. Not an XT (wife does notlike turbos). But an XS LLBEAN. It has enough power to keep me happy, but not enough to get me in a lot of trouble.

I pick it up today.

asafonov

Congratulations! Have you posted to the CCBA thread in News/Views?

P.S. Your wife's caution may save you quite a bit of money in turbo repair costs over the years...

cadillacmike

"Jasmith, the famous Bobst method is NOT, I repeat ABSOLUTELY NOT, a method of negotiation.

It is only a way of stating a truth and asking a question: I will buy your product for this price. Will you accept?

Any answer other than a Yes is interpreted as a No, and the conversation is over. "

I'm dying to try out the bobst method of car buying, trouble is that I'n not in the market for a car for about 2-3 years!

jhs70

They'd probably be afraid that if they had such prices readily available on a web site that they'd never be able to sell cars for MSRP or close to.

To that all I can say is one very well know and very large Toyo dealer does indeed post very very low numbers on their web site and you should see the business they generate. Unreal. I went in one Saturday and it looked like Grand Central during rush hour, and they were the ones actually buying a car! Even more outside looking around. THis dealer would rather sell a ton of cars at a little profit than a few at more profit. THis is what my salesman told me. From the looks of it, that's exactly what they're doing. In my line of work that's called elasticity of demand and I'm surprised more car dealers don't buy into it.

benderofbows

Oh I'm sure it works, I just meant that most dealers would be afraid to try it out.

virgiesmom

Hey there jhs70..... I've been doing some "leg work" for my son who lives up your way...Chantilly...for a new truck. Give me a hit who this "very large Toyo" dealership is so I can review website inventory and prep the son.
Thanks.... Virgie

rroyce10

... **This dealer would rather sell a ton of cars at a little profit than a few at more profit. This is what my salesman told me. From the looks of it, that's exactly what they're doing. In my line of work that's called elasticity of demand and I'm surprised more car dealers don't buy into it**

==========================

I've been out of town for a few days, so this has made for some interesting reading for the last 80 some posts ....

For starters, we have some skewed numbers here .... see, your view of the store is based on your interpretation, not reality ...

All stores, whether they sell 88 vehicles a month or the sell 388 vehicles month have a huge overhead, and "all" dealers have to average X amount of $$ per unit to break air ... large dealers can't sell 90% of their inventory for a few hundred over cost, or they would be out of business in 90 days, that ends up being nothing more than an Urban Legend .. so, your salesman told you what you wanted to hear ..

You have to remember, all dealers are watching their floorplan and their rolling inventory at least twice a week and some on a daily basis ... you might buy the ABC for $200 over cost, but the guy across the showroom is probably paying $1,500 more than you - see, it's the *rolling average* .. all stores can sell a "few" vehicles for little or no profit, but the vast amount get sold for a much larger profit, they have to stay in business .... depending on the product, most average in and around $2,000 a copy ...

**I'm surprised more car dealers don't buy into it** ..l.o.l.. ...... there is nothing to buy into, unless you call Bankruptcy a good thing ................. ;^)





Terry.

isellhondas

You didn't miss anything. I was just too weary to reply to that. You did a good job. Thanks!

boating

Four weeks ago I purchased an 05 Honda Pilot EX-L from a local dealer in RI.

E-Mailed four dealers on a Sunday and received 3 phone calls by Monday afternoon. I used their web site to search out their inventory on Pilots in stock. Told the dealers that I was purchasing a Pilot on Saturday morning and received offers below invoice. It helped that there was little floor traffic when I visited and a foot of snow on ground.

Bottom line: Use the internet as a tool if your are sure which vehicle you are going to purchase and follow up on phone calls to internet sales people. My plan of internet contact and a quick in person visit showed dealers I was a buyer and worked for me.

manamal

I purchased a Subaru Forester on line at Stohlman Subaru in Tyson's Corner, VA. I actually started looking at a Legacy GT. After looking up the price on-line (on the dealers web site), I called the dealership (even though I am a computer geek, I prefer to negotiate over the phone, as I find that it works better/quicker).

I selected my car, put a deposit down (refundable), then brought my wife in to see the car. After about 2 hours of discussion (with her, no the salesman), she vetoed the car. But, the Forester caught her eye. We could get the forester for 2K less than the

Well, we tried it out. The internet salesman gave us the internet price. Everything went really smooth (once my wife agreed). I picked up the LL-Bean last friday, and am enjoying the ride. It is a surprisingly agile ride, and the 2.5i engine provides sufficent power for the Forester.

jhs70

All stores, whether they sell 88 vehicles a month or the sell 388 vehicles month have a huge overhead, and "all" dealers have to average X amount of $$ per unit to break air ... large dealers can't sell 90% of their inventory for a few hundred over cost, or they would be out of business in 90 days, that ends up being nothing more than an Urban Legend .. so, your salesman told you what you wanted to hear ..

I'll defer to your judgment on this because you obviously know the business better than I do.

Who knows how many of their customers get a "low" price, but I would venture that it's not just a few. Why else would there be so many customers in there in the place (maybe for the free popcorn)? I walked in there cold one Saturday morning when I was shopping for a car for my wife. I was really 'just looking'. I had done some homework and knew what a low, low price was. After being approached by the aforementioned saleman, I told him I was just looking, but I figured what the heck, so we sat down to discuss price. Within a minute or so, HE offered ME a price that was, as I recollect, about $300 lower that what I had already determined was a low price. Mind you, I did not even make the first offer - they did, and as I said, I was 'just looking'. (Actually, the car was a reach for me, but I thought, what the heck.) Later, when I got home, being a curious guy, I stopped by our local Toyo dealer, who himself claims to be a top volume dealer in VA, and when I put the other guy's price out there, he pretty much told me to have a nice day. But this is just my experience. So you see, that's why I believed what he said. Do you supposed they picked "me" to give the low price of the day to? Another friend of mine actually bought his Sequoia at this dealership, and when I asked him what he paid, he pretty much quoted me a price that was lower than the advertised "Sequoia price" in the paper, already a low number. So while you are probably right, sir, I sure am left wondering just how many people are getting really good prices with these guys.

Thank you for your insights.

cadillacmike

"Here's the real deal. The foolish dealer spends a bazillion dollars trying to sell new cars online. To fully leverage the internet, focus on USED cars. Take all that money that would be spent on new car garbage and spend it on resources in the dealership to take 8 pictures of every car in the store and then advertise them on multiple web sites: autotrader, carsdirect, cars.com, etc. That's where the real money is. When you get one of those leads, you have the buyers undivided attention because you are the ONLY one with that car. Brilliant! As for new car shoppers - a dealership has everything to lose and nothing to gain. I work at a dealership and I ran an experiment once. I did not respond to any new car leads for 30 days. At the end of the month, I bounced our sold customer list off of the internet leads list. Guess what - we still sold 15 cars to "internet" customers and we didn't respond once online. Of those customers, 80% of them walked in with a printed e-mail message from another dealer saying if we could match it, they would buy it from us. Too easy..."

This would work for used cars, IF the ad posters would put RELEVANT information in their "ads".

I had to wade through countless ads where they all indicated "optional equipment" lists a mile long with such things as "V6 - Auto Trans, Leather Seats Alloy Wheels", etc, ad nauseum,

The problem was that all this stuff was STANDARD EQUIPMENT on the cars I was looking at! The REAL optional items that I was looking for, Bose radio, Sunroof, Chrome wheels, were ALMOST NEVER listed in the "ads" and the pictures were usually not much help. They helped with the colors though.

And I wouldn't buy from an internet ad unless I went to the car. I went to Miami to look at a car that did have exactly what I wanted. The car was still there when i got there, equipment all exactly as expected, mileage accurate, but it ended up being a SMOKERS car, I didn't think of asking about that! Wasted trip and it was cold so the beach wasn't even a useful diversion.

Oh well... It's getting warmer, I'll need to take some leave and go back down to Miami before I go back to the waterless sand dunes.

jhs70

Darcars in Silver Spring, MD.

Alexandria Toyota is also competitive. So is Miller Toyota in Manassas. VA dealers tend to want way too much for documenation fees relative to MD dealers. Just keep that in mind when you haggle. Good luck!

rroyce10

...... A good price is a frame of mind ...

Some people paid $43,000 for their new ski boat, others might have paid $41,5, some might have left the boat show paying $37,5 .. then of course you the folks that paid all of $45,000 .. and everyone thinks they got a "Great" deal - it's a frame of mind ....

It's the same for the real estate business, jewelry, furniture and the mortgage business ... most think they got the best deal on the planet, just ask them .................

Terry.

likeitornot

Funny. Yesterday I went through CarsDirect.com to get a few quotes from local dealers. I filled everything out that I wanted.(color,automatic..etc). A dealer gets back to me with his phone numbers and I didn't want to call so I ignored it. I got another email today from him explaining that he needs more info to give me a quote. (The same info I put in the quote form..) He said he's more than happy to do this over the internet as long as I'm for real, but would like to hear from me on the phone or in person. Understandable, but he could've at least gave me a quote on the starter price for the model since new car prices aren't listed on their site.

Another dealer... I think I asked for a quote on a used one..The reply I got seemed like an automatic email response with just my name added after "Dear". He said basically the same thing as the other guy. He wanted more info and for me to email back or preferably call. It was kind of disapointing, especially since that's the one I'll probably get a car from. Today I emailed them via "Contact Us" with a specific question, cutting right to the chase of what I needed. So hopefully that gets an answer.

Its my first time buying a car but I prefer to go through the internet just to skip any bs I hear about or have dealt with just browsing car lots. Like them trying to sell you things, their recommendations, showing you cars you can look at yourself by walking up and down the lot ..lol..any haggling..etc. At least on the internet I can check out lots to see if they have anything I like, check out their prices and comapre it to other local sites and THEN going to the dealer to check out the car and test drive. Then maybe see what the dealer gives me for a price and then go home and see what I can get from them on the internet. lol. I wouldn't actually pick out a car and pay online and then go pick it up.. that's stupid.

rroyce10

... **At least on the internet I can check out lots to see if they have anything I like, check out their prices and compare it to other local sites and THEN going to the dealer to check out the car and test drive** ....

Your kinda doing it backwards ... you want the dealer to spend their time to give you prices, options, colors and how much rain they're seeing at the Masters and you don't even know what club to use ..

The point is .. like any business, "Real buyers" get a real reaction and they don't know if your real .. they don't know if your a 15yr old kid that just got grounded for being late 3 times for dinner, or a 47yr old somebody that just filed a bankruptcy .... the best way to find out what your want is to drive some vehicles, see if a 4dr works better than a 2dr, a 4 cylinder handles as good as the 6 and does the seats still feel comfortable after 5 miles of driving .... 75% of todays buyers change their minds "twice" before they make that auto purchase, do you feel your any different ...?

Terry

bobst

When we were looking for a Honda Accord last month, I sent Email requests to the closest five dealers. Two didn't have the car we wanted in stock, but the other three quickly sent me out-the-door quotes.

These three dealers were part of our local Rosenthal dealer group and we had bought three cars from them in the past, so maybe they had our name in a data base and knew we were serious buyers.

We went to the one who had given us the lowest quote, made an offer, they accepted, and we drove the new car home. Pretty simple with no haggling.

I hope your car-buying experience is just as good.