Dealers Too Busy For OnLine Shoppers

clp01

Just an insight on my recent deal. I went via Edmunds/Internet to three dealers. One local, one semi-local (30 min drive), and one not-so-local (45 min drive)
but volume dealership. The local dealer never emailed back, but sent information on my car in the mail about four days later- like I needed that at the purchase point I was at. The semi-local dealer did not respond properly to my requests and called even though I preferred email. I talked to them once on the phone. (I found out later they lied about regional stock on a car- only "one" left but found out later six were left from another dealer). This dealer did not send the proper quotes or reply directly to my questions. Dealer number three replied to my questions properly, to the point, without any "pressure", just factual, prompt replies. This was the only Edmunds rec. dealer in my area.
I bought from the Edmunds rec. dealer and made two trips. One was to do the deal and test drive the model and the second trip was to pick-up the car. They had to have it transferred from another dealer in the area (I wanted a certain model/color with Curtain Airbags).
I could have gone local like many I am sure but this is a big purchase and I had to go with the dealer who played the game right (they did misquote a total once but said it was an error).
The other dealer's price was lower but the eventual dealer did match the price. I never asked them to match however, just asked to see if they could do better as I was about the buy and pay cash. They would have gone lower
if it had been in stock. It was already well below dealer invoice and several hundred under Edmunds invoice. It also had a $1000 rebate on top of that deal.
When I put in my request I put in my full name and full information and details of what I wanted. I think their needs to be better communication on both sides. It is too bad people use requests as a game. I only did mine after I was fully researched and ready. It is also too bad some dealers did not reply. I did a few requests, after Edmunds, directly on dealer websites since I wanted to see the car before I bought and the rebate was ending very soon). I was hoping they had it in stock but never even received a reply. At least a "sorry we do not have it in stock" would have been good.

jmurman42

"That may very well be. I guess I don't understand why a quote cannot be given without a full legal name. Initials plus a preferred mode of contact should suffice, in my opinion."

Its pretty simple really. We are in business to sell cars. My time and the time of my salesmen does have a value and to spend time just flinging numbers out to people who don't even take the time to put their name on the form is not productive.

The other regard is this, we use a customer contact system called Autobase. this sytem enables a salesman to enter their customer information and that customer is theirs. Now, there are times when a customer will come into the dealership and spend a couple of hours with a salesman test driving etc...then they wil go home and send an email inquiry for an Internet quote. This system dis-allows that and will not allow further contact.

It's called a "Skate Alert" and the customer doesn't get a Internet quote.

black_tulip

I don't see why there is this fear to provide information to the dealership.

I can understand that to some extent-no one likes to be hounded by salespeople day and night. I am sure you and others on this board do not do this, but let me assure you, there are others who will. Personally I do not like this process and would rather find a dealership I am comfortable with and work with them.

My point was simply that salespeople should respect the wishes/privacy of the customer. "Do not call", in my book, means precisely that.

black_tulip

My time and the time of my salesmen does have a value...

No argument there. If you do not wish to give out a quote, by all means, do not give one. But, if someone says "do not call", I would respect that wish and would NOT call.

I would simply add a "X" after the initials and generate a quote and send it by email or fax or whatever. Whether you do this or not, is completely your call.

jmurman42

I see what you are saying...my feeling is that we are in the top tier of dealers that have true Internet Depts.

When I talk with customers they tell me that out of the 5-7 Internet inquiries they send out, only one or two actually come back with a price, and we are the only ones who will give a compltet pricing quote. In other words we take the time to itemize all fees right up front.

If it is too much for a customer to even put a name...forget the phone number...just their name, then we won't respond with a price. If they do have a phone number we'll try to call and get their name, or if their email bounces back we'll call to leave amessage about that.

We get calls also to our dept from people who want prices. We do explain that our prices are given through email only, not on the web and not over the phone.

isellhondas

We are the opposite. Giving a written price quote is the fastest way to lose a sale over a few dollars!

black_tulip

Giving a written price quote is the fastest way to lose a sale over a few dollars!

So how is carmax still alive after all these years?

isellhondas

I thought they only sold used cars?

Never heard of Car Max except in these forums.

kyfdx

They own new car dealerships in Orlando, Baltimore, Chicago, Atlanta, Milwaukee, LA..

Probably missed a couple...

Nissan, Toyota, GM, Chrysler..

black_tulip

No, they sell new ones also in some markets.

For used cars, they give out a written quote (if they are buying from you) and non-negotiable prices are clearly marked on their inventory. Not sure about new cars, but I think they have a similar policy.

Going by the premise that "if a firm quote is given, buyers will just shop it",I would have thought they would be out of business by now.

pat

They opened a store within the past six months in southeastern Virginia. Here they sell new cars for (what I assume from what I've read in Smart Shopper to be) firm prices and give firm prices on used ones - doesn't matter to them if the current (used) vehicle is a trade-in or straight-up purchase.

There is some other somewhat similar outfit here whose name I'm not sure of that gives you more on your current vehicle if you buy a car from them than if you don't - Driver's World, something like that?

In any case, it seems to me that Carmax's business model seems to be working for them.

jmurman42

Car Max's business model deos work for them. Much like Saturn's does. There are alot of folks that just want to buy a car and don't want top play the game.

I've been a few hundred dollars over (rare but it happens) another dealership and because I give complete pricing it builds a certain amount of trust.

akenaten

I've bought a 2000 Toyota Sienna and a 2002 Subaru Impreza by using fax and internet communications. I got a great deal both times. A lot of dealers here in California have no qualms about doing business over the internet.
I think most people see car dealerships and car buying as adversarial experiences. Every car or truck I've bought over the past20 years(7 total,all new)I've known more about the vehicle than the salesman I was dealing with.Some actually gave me flat-out wrong information.So why should I walk into a dealership and talk to someone who is essentially useless to me? My experience has been salespeople are a waste of time and I truly wonder that with their lack of knowledge about what they're selling what are they paid for? On the internet or through a fax I don't have to deal with some ignorant shlub who dresses badly. I recently test drove an F-250(I'm buying a truck next week)and the salesman was obviously hungover and smelled of alcohol.
As a last thing: I doubt that car dealers are going to get much sympathy from the public.If I e-mail a dealer and its not worth their time to answer me then I assume that place makes plenty of money and doesn't need my business. Or maybe they're just hungover or trying out new polyester clothes. :shades:

obyone

While I've experienced what you've described about car sales people, I wouldn't go as far to generalize and say that most are like that cause that simply isn't true. There are a lot of good sales people....you just have to find them.....

british_rover

You are just buying cars that are too cheap that is all.

akenaten

Too cheap for what? I think you're saying that if I want to buy a Maybach the salesman will actually know something about the car.
But since at the present I'm in the market for a truck that will cost between 35,00 and 40,000 dollars the salesman doesn't have to know anything about it? Where is the cutoff/price :lemon: point for ignorance? It still does'nt change the fact that dealing with most sales staff is a waste of my time.In fact IMO it's a waste of nearly anyones time. If a customer is totally clueless about whatever model they're interested in a salesman can(and probably will) tell that customer anything,true or not.So they are basically hustlers.For me I don't need to deal with a hustler.I don't need to sit there for hours while "I check with my boss"because that schlub is trying to wear me down.
And not all of us can afford 100,000 dollar cars so we can get treated right.Yes I know a Maybach costs more that that.My point is that since I'm buying"cheap"(at least according to you)and the salesman doesn't really know anything about his product why should I have to deal with him?

isellhondas

You can ride the bus.

Better go try on some polyester slacks now...

cluedweasel

It does seem to be that a lot of places prefer sales skills to product knowledge. No reason not to have both though. At my dealership I fell into the role of product knowledge guru and it helped to close sales for a fair few people. I was amazed though at how many people would ask for info about a particular car and then argue, or even call me a liar, when I gave them the answer.

audia8q

It does seem to be that a lot of places prefer sales skills to product knowledge. No reason not to have both though.

I agree with your statement 100%...regretfully alot of folks don't care one bit about product knowledge (sales and customers)....it's all about the deal. The sales skill guys almost always earn alot more than the product folks. Consumers will 'use' the product guy to get their education then end up buying from the skills salesperson.

british_rover

I am the techno geek at our store. If someone can't figure out how to work something or they break something they come down to see me.

Doesn't matter if it is the TV, the satelite dish, a cell phone, a PDA, a Computer or some tech feature on the car.

I just have a brain that is a steel trap for that kind of information.

The best part is that at a Rover store we sometimes get the same kind of techy geek people or someone who has been buying Range Rovers since 1987 and the just know everything about them.

If you can show them something on their car that they did not know about or know some obscure fact about the history of Rovers then you just got a customer for life.

akenaten

I can put off the bus for awhile. I closed a deal for a new truck at invoice. I didn't have to listen to any hustle,although while waiting for the paperwork I talked with the Internet sales manager and it was obvious he didn't know much about GMs current line(I bought a GMC pickup).So I guess a lot of you salesmen basically get paid for shuffling paper?And a little hustling with people that maybe haven't done their homework.... :surprise:

british_rover

I guess at our store the Sales Guides are tested by Land Rover on a quarterly basis by a secret shopper that comes into the store.

We also have to take online and live classes to maintain our certification so that we can qualify for Land Rover bonus programs.

bretfraz

So I guess a lot of you salesmen basically get paid for shuffling paper?

For the $50 mini your salesman made off your deal, you expect more? You got exactly what you paid for, no more, no less. Why complain?

The day the retail car biz pays salespeople a good base income with a competitive bonus/commission structure, offer reasonable hours and top notch benefits all wrapped in a more humanisitic work environment is the day you'll meet a salesman with killer product knowledge as well as solid sales skills.

akenaten

So you prove my point that dealing with a salesman is useless. And if I'd paid $3000 over invoice what did I pay for then? Absolute knowledge of every nut and bolt on my truck? A shoe shine?
I take it you are saying that the retail car biz is set up to have loser employees that have no real use.Strange business! :confuse:

isellhondas

Nice attitude!

jmurman42

Yep strange business...you should try it sometime and see what takes place before you lump everyone into the same pot.

bretfraz

If the customer is going to do ALL the legwork, all the product research, the loan approval, all the inventory searching, absolutely everything except the actual processing of the transaction, then yeah, you don't need a "salesperson". All you need is an order processor.

But ask the pros here how many customers come in completely locked and loaded. I'll bet that number is maybe 1 in 20. The other 19 need someone skilled and knowledgable to help them thru the process.

The chasmic fault in your arguement is you think your situation should apply to ALL situations. You may not need to deal with a salesperson but the vast majority do. Your perspective is myopic in the extreme.

But, hey, what difference does it make now, right? You've got a new truck and I'm sure are loving every minute of it. I've got an '04 Sierra and enjoy it very much so I'm confident you'll like yours. I guess we'll see ya next time, right here at Edmunds.com!!

akenaten

My whole point is that very few(I hav'nt met one yet)salesmen are knowledgable about the product(cars and trucks)they are selling. And there is nothing "myopic" in my opinion about about ignorant salesmen telling an ignorant customer anything they want to hear. In the past I've been told flat-out wrong info by salesman. I'm not saying any of them are doing it out of malice.And"all the product research""? ROFL!What product research. I have yet to meet a salesman that knows anything about their product.And a salesman doesn't approve loans. He writes down some information then takes it to someone else.The finance officer does nearly everything else. Search inventory? Only if you don't have something similar or can't hustle the customer into something else.A salesman doesn't approve the final sale price.So please someone tell me what you do? Aside from stand around like vultures and give out wrong info.With that said I'm sure it's not the greatest job in the world and I do imagine you mustactually help someone out there.
And as for my truck I do love it.I didn't have much luck with my last Sierra(95 1/2 ton and a piece of crap) but I have a feeling this one is going to be pretty good.

british_rover

Well I am not going to make multipile posts about the same subject so why don't you go here.

Read from Page 35 on.

isellhondas

I shall withhold the response you deserve.

akenaten

Apparently you can't come up with a response.Maybe I'm right. Nevermind,this subject is getting boring..

british_rover

Did you even read the other thread?

bigdveedubgirl

First of all I agree with Isell, Really what I want to say would be inappropiate in a R rated movie. But anyway, I am college educated and well versed in my product. Maybe you should look at a brand that puts an emphasis on product knowlege from the sales staff. It seems you just have been slumming in the GM store. Go to an Audi or a BMW or an Acura store and even a Honda store. I am sure there is a better career out there, because I would love to be a shoe model in Milan, but I sell cars and for me it makes me happy and it pays the bills and then some. If I am standing around doing nothing, that is my choice because I am not getting paid anyway. I get paid if I sell a car and only if I sell a car. It is not a job that just anyone can be successful at. You have to have a clear mind, a thick skin, excellent financial management skills (for those skinny months), the ability of establish rapport with people that you would never ever talk to in your private life, be a self starter and organized.

Its a job that takes guts because most people will not take a job that you work 60 hours a week and there is a possibility you will not get paid for it.

isellhondas

He or she probably went into one of the many stores that hire anybody who walks in the door. The places that lure in customers with their full page PRICE ads.

The places that turn over half their help every month.

The stores that use liners and closers and promote their biggest dirtbag to a manager.

Thses places exist en masse and all of us know that.

What we don't need is someone to come to these forums and insult the good salespeople by talking down to us and lumping all of us into the same catagory.

I think he/she would be surprised of at what I make per year or the large numbers of repeat and referral customers that I enjoy working with. I think he/she would maybe surprised or even impressed with my accomplishments in life which started way before I decided to do this job over ten years ago.

And, I'm not the only salesperson here who has an intensive background and high level of education.

british_rover

Very much agreed Isell. I was a supervisor, or Stupervisor if you prefer, for UPS and one of the reasons I left was that I got tired of managing. I just wanted to try something different and this was it.

and now for something completly off topic...

Veedubgirl I need to ask you a specific Audi related question and your email is private. Would you mind sending me an email? Mine is in my profile.

isellhondas

We have several ex-business owners who were successful but got tired of the hassles. We have several ex-corporate executives, A Pastor with a Masters Degree, etc.

akenaten

All of this supposed education,so many self-starters,so many accomplishments in life. And yet you choose to work in a field where you might not get paid,work 60 hours a week,and hustle ignorant people.
Well you all seem happy with your choices and I'm sure you are good at what you do. Frankly I have to question your intelligence but I'm no Einstein either. [non-permissible content removed] luck. Peace.

bobst

Don't feel bad, Aken. Einstein didn't make that much money either. As a clerk in the patent office, I bet he earned less than a car salesman.

Come on. Tell us what the mean old car salesman did to make you carry around such hard feelings.

Kirstie_H

Let's avoid sweeping insults, OK? We've got a lot of salespeople who participate on these boards and help consumers, and we appreciate members being respectful of each other.

isellhondas

The worst part is having to deal with people who walk in with an attitude.

british_rover

when I worked for UPS I worked more hours. During peak season, which is from the right after thanksgiving till Christmas day, 70 hours a week or more were normal. I average right around 50 hours a week now and I could shave that down under 50 if I really tried. I don't leave as early as I can on my early day and I will come in for a few hours during my day off. I only live 5 minutes from the dealership so dropping by for a couple of hours on my day off can be very productive and not really take too much out of my day.

bretfraz

While I'm not a car salesman and never have been, I have had many friends in the biz. All were sharp, educated people.

One friend owned several businesses and recently sold one for a strong six-figure sum. He now works at a local BMW store and is always in the top 3 ( he is #1 this month so far).

Another owned a successful biz for 20+ years. Had 100+ employees, travelled extensively, has seen the world, made a ton of $$$ and now sells Lexus'. The guy really knows his products; a buddy who is a hard core Lexus-phile tries to stump him constantly but rarely succeeds.

I'm not excusing those who do not know the product they sell but to suggest that all car salesmen are worthless and ignorant is simply untrue and I can prove it.

thenebean

i always promise myself not to get involved in these arguments, but i just get so frustrated with the perception people have of salespeople. selling cars is basically your own business, minus start up costs and overhead. you are given a product to sell, and you sell it. your paycheck depends on your desire to sell the product at hand, and the hours you choose to put towards it. you continually call salespeople "hustlers" but who in their right mind who owns a business would say "gee, i bought this food at $1.27, so thats what i will sell it for in my restaurant!" or "this shirt cost me $2.57 wholesale, i'll just sell it at that!" are THEY hustlers? is EVERY business that makes money run by hustlers? isnt the point of being in business to MAKE money? selling cars is no different.

if anything, the educated people who choose to sell cars dont do it because they arent smart, they do it because its a challenge, and you have to work hard to make what you make. and its a great way for those with a great work ethic to control their destiny. you work hard, you get a good paycheck - simple as that.

your "every salesperson is a hustler and i dont need them" attitude is not needed here... :mad:

-thene

jmurman42

"Let's avoid sweeping insults, OK?"

Kirstie, I don't think that anyone is insulting any brooms to vaccuums here.

michaellno

... there is one way to avoid having to deal with salesmen:

Buy used from a private party.

While I'm sure there are those salesmen who perpetuate the stereotype (gold chains, leisure suits w/ white shoes), the salesmen I've worked with in the past have been courteous and professional.

In addition, the salesfolk who frequent Edmunds represent, to me, the best of the business. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a car from any of them.

bigdveedubgirl

Must of not read "The Greatest Salesman in the World" by Og Mandino.

I worked in Management in the Beauty Industry and I was Highest Volume sales for my company in my region month in and month out. The vendors Loved me! But I still made the same salary month after month. With Auto sales, The more I sell, the more money I make. I get paid what for the work I do, or the work I dont do.

It seems as though you paid way too much for the wrong car.

lrguy44

I might add that at our store I guide the whole deal - demonstrate, negotiate and finance right at my desk. We are empowered to work a deal from start to finish without going to a manager. I guess that I wasted my years of product knowledge and high CSI scores to become Land Rover Master Certified if all my customers knew more about the cars, the financing and the business than I do.

british_rover

Hey another Land Rover guy very cool I don't feel alone anymore.

akenaten

Okay. Nobody was answering my questions or even effectivly defending themselves. While I question whether a salesperson can truly help anyone with anything I don't mean to be disrespectful.I'll move on to something else.

bobst

Since you don't have the power to put any of us on the defensive, there is no need for us to defend ourselves.

Maybe your questions were ignored because they were not clear.

If you ask a specific question in a very clear manner, we will answer it. To avoid confusing us, try asking only one or two specific questions in each post.

OK, go ahead.