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It would be nice if the 5 had a stick available on the top of the line model.
Of course, owning a stick makes you part of a pretty exclusive group in the US anyway.
There's a stick Echo and Subaru at the place we're house-sitting, but I don't know where the keys are. Probably just as well. :shades:
-- Per our insurance company the minivan is literally the cheapest thing to insure for a 16 year old boy
-- Dollar for dollar you would be hard pressed to buy more car for any given amount than a minivan
-- As a 15 year old he managed to land a job teaching snowboarding at a local ski and terrain park, and he needs to be able to schlep both his gear and that of several of his friends
The above said, he really wants a Honda S2000 (which will only happen on his nickel).
Best regards,
Shipo
I know some folks like to call the Mazda5 a minivan, but the difference in utility and luxury between a Mazda5 (especially the strippo version that can be had with a stick), and a real minivan is rather substantial. Oh yeah, and it's fugly too. :P
Best regards,
Shipo
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And is Taos, NM, very, very hot right now?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And it's been overcast and mild here. Very nice weather; seems mild over much of the intermountain west right now. We even did a short walk into a hot spring this afternoon along the Rio Grande and soaked without getting overheated. :shades:
Great driving weather although running the AC a bit. And plenty of fun, curvy mountain roads nearby. Just no keys for the manual transmission cars here (they probably aren't insured right now either). Oh well. :sick:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
About the only time I get to drive stick these days are on test drives. And my wife's left leg is still healing after ~16 months so we aren't ready to buy another manual yet. The x-rays just aren't quite there from her skiing tib/fib.
I told myself that it was all part of the game plan and just rowed right through it. :sick: :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Kids like a challenge - adults just need the patience to teach them.
My son started stirring his own in April and will readily admit how humbling the first few drives were. He has since mastered my Mazda3 and has also driven a number of other cars with a stick, and that in turn prompted such comments as, "I can't believe how much tighter strung your car is and how much touchier your clutch is compared to Cody's Nissan Pathfinder or Tyler's Honda Accord; those things are a piece of cake to drive without stalling."
As a side note, my twelve year old daughter (who happens to be a neonatal stroke victim partially paralyzed on her left side), is already asking me when I'm going to teach her to drive a stick. Given that she's already mastered vaulting on horseback (i.e. standing on a horse's back while its walking and keeping her balance by using just her core muscles), piano and violin (yes, she's a very driven young lady), I have no doubt she'll master the stick as well.
Best regards,
Shipo
Yeah, this is one of those things that I just trusted my Dad on. He taught me to drive stick in his '66 VW Fastback. What a cool little 4-speed to learn in. He had all the patience in the world to wait until I learned because he knew I would love it and that it was important.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Great to see your daughter showing interest. I started at around 12 in a Mazda 929 wagon - not in the USA. Sometimes you hear the silliest excuses for not driving a stick. My joints are stiff - too much work etc. My mother just bought her first automatic at age 75 ( Jetta wagon TDI) and my Father bought his first automatic only because a stick was not available in a reasonable hybrid (he bought a Prius - the Insight which he wanted with a stick was just way too small). He has had both hips replaced, walks with a limp and has a permanent handicap plate, yet his next car will be a stick if one is available.
BTW he has averaged 58.2 mpg over the last few thousand miles in the Prius.
Mom has an auto Fit. Brother has an auto CR-V. His wife has an auto Forester.
They were rare 10 years ago, now common, but still a minority.
Very heartwarming information.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Not sure about percentages but it was probably 99% stick and now it's probably more like 80%.
And, for the parent, one other huge advantage. You have to be aware of the vehicle at all times, AND you can't drive with one hand as a new driver. ie - you have to pay attention and DRIVE the thing instead of doing anything and everything else.
Compare that to a typical Toyota. Sofa on wheels, drive it with one eye and two fingers on the wheel. Well, DUH - of course they get a speeding ticket or run into something.
A difference would be the new Coupe they're preparing with Subaru called the FE-86. Read tonight in a car mag that Toyota is planning a smaller FE-86 that will retail for under $20,000. Well under $20,000, like around $15,000, but it will look like the FE-86 under development. Small I4's will propel these new Coupe's. These are new bright stars from Toyota and of course you'll be able to have one with a manual tranny. Oh, and the smaller FE-86 won't be replacing the regular FE-86, just giving consumers a smaller choice of FE-86's at a sub $20,000 price. Apparently development costs on the FE-86 have gone up too much. It won't be out until 2013, either, not 2011 like originally planned.
I liked the 5-speed stick Scion xA and I liked the Scion tC in 5-speeds. The Yaris sedan in 5-speeds was actually looking decent to me for a while in an economical sedan sort of way, too.
But the larger Toyota's, even the compact Corolla just cause me ta yawn when looking at them and with a Camry or Avalon, fall asleep while driving them, because of that drifty, floaty ride they give you.
2010 Toyota Camry
2013 Toyota FE-86 The "Big" Version
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I personally love how it looks a bit like something from Hot Wheels - in a good way, mind you. For $25K, I'd buy one in a second. For more than that, I might as well just get a G37.
Interesting article about the dsg vw tdi. Seems like the stick kills the dsg in mpg (by 5) and beats it in acceleration and purchase price.
What happened - the pro automatic crowd said the manual could not compete?
Here is the car and driver "save the manual" crusade.
It costs over $3000 to "fix" a typical automatic in a Corolla or other "economy" vehicle. A clutch is $150 at the local auto parts store and any local mechanic can have it installed for $400-$600 in labor. DSG and fancy alternatives cost much more to fix.
It's a time bomb, to be honest. I'd not buy anything used with an automatic without subtracting a large percentage of a new automatic's cost. But the review sites never mention the hidden cost of an automatic. Combined with the fuel savings and initial savings on the car's price, it's over $5000 less to own a typical manual versus an automatic over the lifetime of the car.
Other small advantages include push starting when the battery dies (I once left the key in and fan running and my got out and pushed - no problem), also much better control in the snow. An automatic is too slow to rock back and forth properly, but a clutch can go from totally disengaged to engaged very quickly. You need to mess around with shifting to neutral and back to drive in an automatic and it is slow and potentially damaging.
The average DSG service charge is coming in at around $300-$400 every 40K miles because of this. It'll go down in a few years as they become more common, but right now, very few neighborhood mechanics have the tools required to do it.
My manual is a simple bolt to drain it - drive it for 15-20 minutes to get it warm, undo the bolt, and leave it for 30 minutes to drain. Put back together and fill with new gear oil. $30 every 5 years.
I think the reason manuals are making a small comeback in the last year or so is because like in the 70s, the economy is poor and huge costs to maintain a car are becoming a luxury for many people. I think what needs to happen is for the auto magazines and websites to start praising the virtues of manuals based upon economics. Everyone is concerned about money, and automatics and fancy DSGs are far more expensive.
Looks like the board is deader than the manual itself.
one of her friends has an sister that is a senior, and learned on a stick (her family has a van, an older GTI and a miata). She gets to drive the 2 sticks, although my daughter reports that she isn't particularly good at it, but some of that might be the fault of the GTI. But at least she is doing it, and it should carry over to my daughter and her friend.
it would make a 3rd generation active, since my mom (now 78) still has he manual tranny saturn. And still wants a mini cooper!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Of course, it was going to have to be a manual in all cases. No autos in my driveway.
I went ONE FOR THREE. Only the Mazda dealer (the second one I tried) had stick shifts in stock (they had exactly two, both base models when I was hoping to check out a Touring). They were following the usual dealer paradigm of "only cheap people want manuals, so we will order all our manuals in base trim with no options", which I found disappointing in a Mazda dealer ("zoom zoom!!" :-/)
I tried three different Ford dealers and three Honda dealers, and between the dozens and dozens of Fits and Fiestas in stock at those places, there wasn't a SINGLE MANUAL.
The manual may not be dead in theory, but in practice it is as you will never find one in stock anywhere. :-( (it shows up as the "standard" transmission on all sorts of models, even now)
I WAS somewhat heartened recently to discover that my nearest Nissan dealer had a nice assortment of Jukes in stock with manuals. Go figure.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That could be because those sold first, FWIW.
Also, a lightly equipped Mazda2 will weigh less. Better handling, braking, and acceleration.
How'd you like the 2? I'm dying to know...
The decline of the manual is a self fulfilling prophecy. Dealers don't stock as many because they don't sell as well. This makes them hard to find so people sometimes give up and just get an automatic. Also often time only the base trim has a stick, so if you want some features you need an automatic. So a manufacturer will make a stripper model that does not have many options and only make a few of them and then say "look nobody wants this car, therefore nobody wants a manual anymore."
Recently test drove the fiesta with a stick shift. What a hoot to drive. Very nice feel to the shifter.
Since then I've enjoyed the Lancer GTS but I really appreciated your Fiesta stick test drive comment. I may still trade for a manual Fiesta S sedan for 2011 from Ford. The roll-down windows I can manipulate with, but I will want a single-CD changer for sure. That wouldn't stop a deal, though I could almost definitely find one at a Ford dealer outfitted just like that, because I could just get one put in aftermarket. Ford outfits this baby well enough and the option packages basically contain fluff I don't even need.
Outfitted like this the car comes to just $14,490. This is the first Ford I've wanted since the 1997 Ford Escort sedan! The desire doesn't seem to be diminishing, either. Have to take one for a spin.
2011 Ford Fiesta hatchback
This is a picture of the hatchback, I do like the white racing stripes on it. I want the sedan, though. Should have just a pidge more room in the back than the hatchback does.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I liked it more than the Fit, judging by a fuzzy memory I have of the Fit from a test drive I did when it first came out. The Fit has more interior flexibility, but the Mazda2 is a better drive.
I would really like to be able to do a back to back comparison between those two, and add a Fiesta if possible. Sticks only, autos need not apply with me.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I suspect way more Fiesta buyers will like the Fiesta hatchback. Some interesting lines on the sedan, though, just when it starts looking econobox, I look a bit more and it looks quite interesting once again. This blue 5-speed Fiesta sedan is listing for $14,990. The dealer added the dreaded "market area adjustment" sticker adding $500 to the overall price on the back window, but Ford was giving $500 cash back last time I looked.
So, the MSRP for this car would be back down to $14,490 once again.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
To be honest that looks like a photochop. Either they made the tires 20% bigger than they are or they lowered the stock Fiesta 3 inches, because the fender gap is entirely gone.
Come to think of it, there's no gap front-to-rear, either, so they definitely super-sized the wheels and tires by 20% or more with photochop, DEFINITELY.
-Frank
Now it's gone.
And then comes word from VW that they are bringing back the R32, only this time with a 2.0 turbo making about 265 hp, and guess what? There will only be one available transmission - the manual 6-speed!! Reason is, the second round of R32s in 2007 took 18 months to sell because of the pretend-manual DSG, so this time around, NO DSG!!! :-) :-)
I call that another good sign. I guess automakers still know deep down which transmission is the only one that can be taken seriously for folks with sporting intentions. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The reason the DSG is probably not available for the VW R32, is the so called "robust" version is too costly, will not fit and would need an almost new complete redesign to fit.
So for example. 1. the (current) DSG on a TDI with 236# ft of torque is only specified (by the subcontractor, Borg-Waner) to 258 # ft. 2. It is almost 100% specified for maximum fuel mileage. (counter productive to a "performance version" 3. Just a nozzle swap will send the torque values OVER that edge. 4.With the more normally first, performance "chipping" the potential for toasted DSG's (6 speed manuals I might add) goes almost exponentially higher, almost guaranteed if performance parameters are...USED. 5. DSG repairs start @ $3,000. 6. 6 speed manual repairs can be done in 1k and under. 7. I am sure the almost no warranty for frying 6 speed manual clutches is also appealing vs 8. trying to warranty a DSG for 100,000 miles.
* low-cost compacts and sub-compacts
* special sporty models
And that's fine with me, because I like sporty, small cars. :shades:
juice: I hope you are right, but I fear for the future of the manual in inexpensive compacts and subcompacts - I think the very cheap CVT will take over in that segment (it is cheap for the automaker to make AND rated best for fuel economy) and the manual will disappear.
I hope to buy a couple more cheap and cheerful small cars before that extinction occurs though. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)