Bob Lutz - Is he making the grade?

rockylee

Holy Moley :surprise:

I agree Merc, this lunatic needs to retire. If I was Rick Wagoner, I'd tell him to clean out his desk immediantly and Security will be escorting him out. Rick Wagoner, I'm positive doesn't think this way. :mad:

Rocky

jae5

When he headed company I used to work for, before joing GM, we called him the "Putz". Mostly for making idiotic comments like above.

M,

You and Rock, unlike a lot of others, "get" Lutz. He is not the "savior" or "car genuis" he is made out to be.

rockylee

I'm starting to agree. The only one he's headed up that's been a success was the kappa twins.

Rocky

rockylee

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061104/BIZ/611040348/11

Rocky

rockylee

Product developer shoots down rumors of his retirement as intense launch of new vehicles begins.

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061214/AUTO01/612140403

Rocky

P.S. Putz as some call him is here to stay which isn't neccessary a bad thing is it ?

jae5

Read that too Rock. Just kind of diappointed that they up his benefits for his earlier service. I don't think this is the time to reward management for past service when they are cutting rewards for regular employees / workers. In bad taste to me.

robr2

But remember those folks are getting paid to go away - just like Lutz will when he retires.

rockylee

I agree but that's the greed in our system. Upper Management gets rewarded very well no matter the situation of the company. My family members that took the early out didn't do it just to leave early because dad, actually deep down didn't want to go this soon because he still had a mortgage. Dad, wanted to allow younger workers the oppertunity to have a decent job because he wasn't sure just how many would take the buy-out.

Rocky

rockylee

I haven't heard aquat from the man besides he believes we all need to drive subcompacts..... :surprise:

Rocky

k2j

Lutz is to old to know what the American people want in a vehicle!

rockylee

I can't diasgree with ya on that. Hey look we agree on something.

I could choke Putz, for taking out those wooden tables, center rear console, and dual flip down DVD screens out of the buick enclave to cut costs. k2j, he lost all my respect after he did that. Why ? Those items were trademarks of the Enclave concept and should of made production even if it would of cost me a grand or two more :mad: :mad: :mad:

Rocky

readerreader

This space:

Sit back and let the evidence smack you in the face--





















Still having doubts?
Alright then...













Malibu...



SLS...



This thread is getting too long, but Lutz is on a roll.

rockylee

I wouldn't go that far......I don't think Putz is the one who is responsible for getting all these new and improved products launched.

I like i've said am still ticked off at him for taking away the wooden tables, rear center console, and dual flip down DVD screens for the rear ent. package which added a significant distinguishable quality to the Enclave. :mad:

Rocky

fintail

Uh oh, I see a pic from a Chinese site. Will this be another Chinese market GM car that is superior to its NA market brother?

I'd like to know how Lutz created all those, too...

readerreader

Bob Lutz is head of global product development at GM--not just North America.

Secondly, Cadillac is based here in the U.S. so it wasn't the Chinese who invented that interior.

Thirdly, nobody on earth was going to pay for the extra consoles etc in the Enclave interior.
No manufacturer in their right mind would ever sell that. We all knew it would be more reasonable inside so that is not a bad thing.

All of those vehicles posted were created significantly undr Bob Lutz.
He has been there since 2001. It's 2007 practically. All of those are 2007 or later models, so he is responsible for all of them--especially the Malibu/CTS which he did from scratch.

fintail

So things were developed under him....so what? I mean, giving him that credit would be like blaming Bush personally for all the issues of his regime.

Besides, telling a company they need to make a competitive product isn't rocket science.

readerreader

Well it didn't seem like the guy before him was doing that. How come all of a sudden they just stopped producing rubbish like this;



and began to make stuff like this;



Somebody did something different all of a sudden.
I cannot believe that the same company made those two things--and the older one is 2002!

fintail

LOL yeah those pics prove progress. That first pic is just brutal.

But what did Lutz do? Everyone knew those interiors were horrid and needed an overhaul.

rockylee

Did Putz, also draw up the interiors for the GMT-900's ? I didn't know Lutz was a design engineer ? :surprise:

Rocky

readerreader

You still have not told me what's changed.

I can suggest to you that it is Lutz that changed because that is all I see. Have you seen anything else that changed to cause this upswing?

In any case, if Lutz is not responsible for this sudden upsurge in new product, I have no clue how people are giving him a bad grade and why.

What is the criteria for grading Lutz?

gogogodzilla

Let's compare what Lutz (and GM) thinks that someone with $18-22,000 will want with... let's say, what other foreign automakers think we want.

What Lutz thinks:

Chevrolet Malibu

What VW thinks:

VW Rabbit

What Honda thinks (sorry, couldn't find a better picture):

Honda Civic

What Toyota thinks:

Toyota Corolla

And finally, what Mazda thinks:

Mazda3 5-door

I think it's quite apparent that GM has a problem with reality. They truly believe that their products are equal to or better than their competition. And, after seeing these pictures, I will leave it to you to judge whether that belief is appropriate.

:shades:

british_rover

The Corolla and the Malibu look about equal to me.

john500

He still doesn't respect the possibility of global warming or the possibility of a finite fossil fuel supply. Any responsible board of directors would can the person who released this type of information to the press.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/26/news/companies/gm_fuel.reut/index.htm

hpmctorque

I think the current generation Malibu was already baked by the time Lutz came on board. It will be more fair to judge him on the restyled '08 Malibu, which will be unveiled at the Detroit Auto Show in just a few days.

gogogodzilla

The Malibu was used as an example. I could have just as easily used the Pontiac G5, Saturn Ion, or the Chevrolet Cobalt as examples.

I doubt they'd hold a candle to the competition, either.

And I chose the Malibu in an attempt to deflect any criticism in the vein of "Oh, but you're comparing the bargain basement GM model to that of something more expensive".

So I opted for a more expensive GM model for a comparison. Yet it still stunk.

:shades:

readerreader

Global Warming is YOUR problem. Stop looking for "Big American Corporations" to blame for it.

readerreader

I think he knows that. He's just trying to be cute.

You don't have to think that Lutz has all the "answers" but you do have to be serious.

gmrules1

But Bob Lutz has been doing wonders for GM. He and Rick Wagoner have added tons of world beating new cars like the Solstice, the Sky, the new GMT900's, the new Malibu, the Cobalt, the Vette, awesome Buick lineup, the Cadillac lineup. too much to list. With GM, it's winner after winer and Bob Lutz can pat himself on the back for the awesome job he has done.

The American Revolution is taking names and the competition should be quaking in the shoes because they are coming closer and closer to wiping the competition off the map... on by one. :P

rockylee

Dude, your killing me....

Rocky

carguy58

I'll rank them like this:

1.) The Toyota
2.) The VW
3.) The Chevy
4.) The Mazda
5.) The Honda

carguy58

I'll give him a B- for the job he's done. He has improved GM's interiors which was a weakness for a longtime in GM products. I think GM cars have better style-their much more line with consumer tastes than they were even 5 years ago.

I want to see Caddy's interiors be improved because Lutz hasn't improved that yet but I have yet to see the 07 Escalades interior.

rockylee

The Escalade and SRX interiors are nice. I also like the DTS interior also.

Rocky

jae5

Carguy,
I wonder how the interiors/switch gear will hold up over time. I hope they can hold their sheen and just plain hold-up for the long haul. Initial look/feel can be great but if silky cream turns into sour puss...

Sorry Rock, still can't grade him yet. :confuse: I want to see how these products last and if they keep the momentum going or just let the product die without updates. Hate to be a downer but it's one thing to present a great product, it's another to keep it fresh and going.

merc1

Is the CTS the first pure Lutz car?

I'm asking because everytime someone says that Lutz isn't making the grade based on recent GM products we always get "those cars aren't pure Lutz vehicles", meaning he didn't have a hand in them from start to end. Aren't the half-baked, "we'll fix them as we build them" Kappa cars his first babies from start to finish? There will be no more excuses for Lutz if the new CTS doesn't fly high and I mean more than merely being "competitive". It needs to place at the head of or in the top 3 of the class.

M

jae5

I believe the current one is. I know the Kappas are; I can't remembered but I think the new crossover crop is. I want to say the Epsilons are but aren't 100% sure.

I really don't want to count the proposed RWD GP / Impala / Buick? as the GP is going to be another Monaro/GTO type of thing. And I'm afraid the Impala / Buick as going to be badge-engineered GPs.

sls002

The 2006 model year was approximately when Lutz's influence would have been available from the start of any major new product. The Solstice and Sky were certainly Lutz's products. The DTS and Lucerne were too. The STS had some influence before the final product went out the door, but aside from the interior, probably little else was changed. The LaCrosse was delayed to get some adjustments, but much was already locked in.

sls002

The Solstice was Lutz's concept car, so the Solstice is as pure Lutz as it gets. However, the 2008 CTS is an evolution of the 2003 model, so no, the 2008 CTS is not "pure Lutz".

Lutz was hired to correct some problems that GM realized that it had. I think that Lutz is supposed to prevent a new Pontiac Aztec from happening. By himself, Lutz can't design every new car/truck that GM developes.

merc1

If all of this is to be believed then he is still isn't making the grade, he isn't even close.

The Kappa twins are so half-baked, "we'll fix them as we go" it is ridiculous. They're making one running change after another, probably best to wait for the 2008 model.

The new CTS appears to be better executed than the Kappa twins because he and his team could learn from the mistakes of the first CTS compared to starting from scratch as they had to do with the Kappa cars.

Yeah I remember him sending the STS back to the drawing board, gosh that makes me wonder what else could have been wrong with it, since it isn't anywhere near class leading in correct form.

M

sls002

My guess on the STS is that it would have gotten the same interior as the SRX. Cadillac three letter names have the convention of the first letter indication a series, so the SRX and STS are S-series. The STS's basic problem is that the interior materials are not quite up to the standards expected when the price tag is over $60,000. If you think the basic problem is that it should have an 800 horsepower engine, then I think you are way off track.

The Solstice was a rushed project to get it into production, and as a result there are some flaws. The XLR was also rushed into production. I think the XLR would have been a better Cadillac if it could have been put on the sigma platform, but it is not clear to me that the sigma platform could have been used for a sports car.

merc1

Well the problem with recent Cadillacs aren't their engines. I didn't imply that at all, its the smaller detailed things that muck up lots of GM cars. They've gotten a whole lot better in recent years when it comes to powertrains.

M

sls002

I think that details are a weakness that GM has. I don't know that Lutz's job is to get details right though, although he should look at those issues. Lutz can only do so much. His present job is more of a global one, which is a change. Details seem to be what the Japanese do best, particularly with the Lexus or at least this is my impression from what the magazine editors say.

Lutz was not a GM insider, but was hired to guide GM in product development towards better products. The actual production models and details are probably carried out by lower level people. I don't know if Lutz is doing a good job, but the 2007 SRX interior is an improvement over what the SRX started with. Whether Lutz had something to do with the change is not clear, but probably he would have approved the basic design at some point.

jae5

I thought STS still meant Seville Touring Sedan. When did this S-Series come into play?

robr2

I thought STS still meant Seville Touring Sedan. When did this S-Series come into play?

About 3 years ago, GM dumped most of the vehicle names for Cadillac - they've gone to a more Euro convention of letters.

Now STS once stood for Seville Touring Sedan but no longer. It just denotes a model just like the SLX, CTS, DTS, and XLR.

rockylee

SLX ???? Obviously you meant SRX, right ?

Rocky

sls002

The new three letter naming convention was explained after the CTS was introduced. Perhaps around the time that the SRX was introduced. The first letter was supposed to denote the series, the middle letter and last letter indicate something about the vehicle. For example, if the last letter is S, then the body is a sedan.

The reality though is that the CTS replaces the Catera. Both the STS and SRX can be thought of as Seville replacements, although the Seville did not have a station wagon. Clearly the DTS is a DeVille. The XLR replaces the Alante, not sure about the X, but LR probably means luxury roadster. Now CTS could also mean Cadillac Turing Sedan, which used to be based on the DeVille in the late 80's-early 90's, and was replaced with the Concours.

sls002

This speech is where the three letter names are introduced:
http://www.media.gm.com/news/speeches/020115laneve.html
it is at about the middle...

robr2

SLX SLR whatever it takes!!

robr2

IIRC:

C for Catera begat C series Touring Sedan begat CTS
D for Deville begat D series Touring Sedan begat DTS
S for Seville begat S series Touring Sedan begat STS. There was also an SLS - Seville Luxury Sedan that begat nothing.
E for Eldorado - Eldorado Touring Coupe ETC that begat nothing.
SRX - S series Reconfigurable X Over
XLR - X series Luxury Roadster.

sls002

The D series started out as the series 62 models in the 50's before the Coupe De Ville.

robr2

The D series started out as the series 62 models in the 50's before the Coupe De Ville.

Well we're not concerned about way back then you codger.