Mystery car pix

tmart

60 Ford two tone white over brown wagon facing to the right. 59 green over white Ford.

fintail

I notice the plates on the 60 Pontiac and the Corvair are in close sequence.

stickguy

is the little red car a VW type 3 notchback? If so must have been one of the first ones out.

ab348

Good eye on IDing what I assumed was a ‘60 Ford wagon as actually a Meteor, Fin. Blowing up the photo beyond its actual resolution let me see the different side trim and round taillights. A rare bird indeed. Interesting here to see the plethora of Pontiacs which were very popular up here and occasionally outsold Chevy in Canada.

fintail

Location gave me the Meteor hint, and I could see the side trim. Probably no more than a handful of survivors today, as those cars weren't exactly rust repellant.

Red car isn't a VW, think older, smaller, from an area in Germany south of Wolfsburg.

stickguy

I thought so. I should know what it is, since I think one has popped up before. but looks just close enough.

bhill2

fintail said:

I notice the plates on the 60 Pontiac and the Corvair are in close sequence.

Am I right that the car on the other side of the Corvair is also a '60 Canadian Pontiac? It has the same "child's foot in their father's shoe" look to the wheel wells.

fintail

Maybe both are Cheviacs? I am not completely sure how to distinguish one.

Red car is a BMW 700, which entered production around 1960. Had to have been a rare sight in that location, something I'd expect in southern California or maybe some parts of the northeast. Then again, Toronto is the NYC of Canada (and Etobicoke is one of the key filming locations of the classic "Strange Brew", gotta get over there sometime).

I think I see a sunroof Beetle a couple rows over, and a 59 Pontiac in front of the 60 Meteor. Good era for cars, that bridge between the 50s and 60s, where one can find 60 Fords, and fintails were contemporary, too.

bhill2 said:

Am I right that the car on the other side of the Corvair is also a '60 Canadian Pontiac? It has the same "child's foot in their father's shoe" look to the wheel wells.

andys120

Look closely at the red car>

stickguy

I looked closely. Just for you. still don't know what it is.

opposite curb, looks like a red with white top '59 El Camino.

omarman

Look at the roof of that red car. As a kid I had a model car kit based on similar car from the same family of fine cars.

andys120

stickguy said:

I looked closely. Just for you. still don't know what it is.

opposite curb, looks like a red with white top '59 El Camino.

Don't think it's an El Camino, looks more like a flattop '59 or '60 Impala, It may be the newest car visible.

Right click to enlarge.

fintail

Red car 55 Mercury? Looks like California.

andys120

Yup, it's from somewhere in the LA area. I can't tell if the Merc is a '55 or '56 but you missed
the chrome strip on the roof that separates the glass from the steel portions of the roof on the Sun Valley models.

tmart

To me, the red car looks like a 50s Lincoln maybe a Capri. Also, the 59 Chevy appears to me to be an Impala and not an El Camino. I think it’s the angle that makes the top appear short.

fintail

I forgot there was a glasstop Mercury of that style. Rare car.

ab348

When was the last time you saw a Rambler-Hillman dealer? Probably like me, never. But there was one in Etobicoke in 1961. Both pics should expand nicely.

I think the brother-in-law of the area Vauxhall dealer took this pic to make the car look fast:



Better view of some Hillmans and a great neon sign here:

andys120

That's a Sunbeam Alpine on the left of the lower pic so this dealer may have had the other Rootes nameplates as well (Humber, Riley and Sunbeam). I once rode in a Humber Super Snipe.

White Morris Minor followed by a '59 Ford Ranch Wagon in the upper picture.

ab348

andys120 said:

That's a Sunbeam Alpine on the left of the lower pic so this dealer may have had the other Rootes nameplates as well (Humber, Riley and Sunbeam).

I suspect back in those days (which I think pre-dated any Chrysler involvement with Rootes) if you got one Rootes brand, you got them all.

fintail

Great pics. Wagon speeding through the intersection in the first pic is a Vauxhall F Victor. Wagon behind the Beetle looks like a 59 Meteor Ranch Wagon - odds of 2x 2 door wagons in one pic can't be high. I also see a Sunbeam Rapier in the second pic, to the right of the building pillar, next to a Rambler. Apparent Hillman Minx to the left of the white Alpine, both the Minx and some Ramblers had the reverse slant C-pillar. I think I see a Hillman Husky or two, always liked those.

ab348

The corner above is completely unrecognizable now, looking like it is on a different planet. The car dealer site is now a transit terminal.

Lostwrench3

Pic #2 - 1959 Dodge.

bhill2

The new Ramblers appear to be '61s, so that dates the picture. I have always had a strange attraction to the '57s like that white over green wagon.

andys120

The "bubbletop" roofline was offered on every full-size two-door from GM in '61 and '62.

tmart

Well, it’s a Buick with three portholes, so not a Roadmaster, maybe a Le Sabre?

andys120

tmart said:

Well, it’s a Buick with three portholes, so not a Roadmaster, maybe a Le Sabre?

Yup, it's a LeSabre, you can tell it's its a '61 by the pointy fenders. Looking back it's odd to think that it was once common for full-sized cars to be sold w only two doors,

ab348

Those '61 Buicks were a nice body design, though I slightly prefer the Olds styling that year. Both were nicely cleaned up from the '59/'60 designs, which in turn were a great leap forward from the '58.

kyfdx

andys120 said:

tmart said:

Well, it’s a Buick with three portholes, so not a Roadmaster, maybe a Le Sabre?

Yup, it's a LeSabre, you can tell it's its a '61 by the pointy fenders. Looking back it's odd to think that it was once common for full-sized cars to be sold w only two doors,

My mother's two-doors:
'67 Bonneville (spaceship)
'72 Lincoln
'76 Lincoln

magnette

Sorry - I missed the last couple of days in the garden...

Looking back at that Rootes Group dealer - Riley wasn't a Rootes product - it was part of BMC from the Morris side. The missing Rootes one would have been Singer.

andys120

Another big 2dr>

ab348

A guy here locally has one of those CanAm Pontiacs in his collection and I got to look at it in his storage building a few years ago. It was actually quite impressive. His example is near-mint and so it doesn't show a lot of the wear and tear these tended to exhibit in real-life use. I don't know how it is to drive but with the white buckets-and-console interior, Grand Am dash and the graphics package with that oversized rear spoiler it really looked good to me. I was surprised how much I liked it.

ab348

Back in the latter half of the 1950s and through the 1960s the British car industry put on an export push into North American markets as part of the imported car surge more generally that took place at that time here. Ford was part of that and sold various British-built models here. I think they did a little better in Canada than in the USA because of our connection to the British Isles historically.

I stumbled onto this picture over the weekend and was amazed - I had never seen such a franchise before and had no idea Ford of Canada maintained a separate sales channel for them. This was on Dufferin St in Toronto. The date is unrecorded but I am guessing late '50s. Quite the assortment of British Fords and a newish-looking building in which to display them. I am not good at IDing many British Fords of this era but I'm sure others here are better.

Picture is large so it should expand well. I note that the address is still a car dealer today (Toronto Hyundai) but the building itself seems to have been replaced.

magnette

ab348 said:

Back in the latter half of the 1950s and through the 1960s the British car industry put on an export push into North American markets as part of the imported car surge more generally that took place at that time here. Ford was part of that and sold various British-built models here. I think they did a little better in Canada than in the USA because of our connection to the British Isles historically.

I stumbled onto this picture over the weekend and was amazed - I had never seen such a franchise before and had no idea Ford of Canada maintained a separate sales channel for them. This was on Dufferin St in Toronto. The date is unrecorded but I am guessing late '50s. Quite the assortment of British Fords and a newish-looking building in which to display them. I am not good at IDing many British Fords of this era but I'm sure others here are better.

Picture is large so it should expand well. I note that the address is still a car dealer today (Toronto Hyundai) but the building itself seems to have been replaced.

Can't see the picture on this one

stickguy

I actually always liked that can am too.

fintail

Neat van at far left, I think those were sold as the Thames, pre-Transit. I think I see a pickup variant at far right, near the billboard. The larger sedans near the van appear to be Consul, and the smaller one an Anglia 100E. Maybe a Zodiac on the right alongside another Consul, before the pickup. British Fords were sold in Murka too, but as ab says, in smaller numbers - less sympathy for the union jack, perhaps, and less of a network. I have seen but a few export model British Fords of that era here.

Did Canada have normal Fords alongside Meteor? So there would have been regular Ford, Meteor, British Ford (and maybe in few locations, German Ford).

ab348

magnette said:

Can't see the picture on this one

That's funny because your quoted text shows it on my screen!

Looking at it, there seems to be some sort of odd code in that address for some reason. Try this version instead, should expand just as well:

ab348

fintail said:

Did Canada have normal Fords alongside Meteor? So there would have been regular Ford, Meteor, British Ford (and maybe in few locations, German Ford).

We had Ford dealers and Lincoln-Mercury dealers generally, though in smaller communities there might have been a single all-models franchise, I don't know. But if you were a Ford dealer, for a while (until 1961) you also had the Monarch to sell, a rebadged Mercury. And if you were a L-M dealer, you had the Meteor and Frontenac to sell for a while, rebadged Fords. Later on the Meteor was more in line with US Mercury models. But it was all very confusing.

fintail

Bizarre - it'd be interesting to see suits of the time defend that lineup. And to top it off, for a few years in the 60s, we had the Mercury Meteor, which was kind of a Galaxie with more chrome trim at first, then a Fairlane with more trim.

ab348 said:

We had Ford dealers and Lincoln-Mercury dealers generally, though in smaller communities there might have been a single all-models franchise, I don't know. But if you were a Ford dealer, for a while (until 1961) you also had the Monarch to sell, a rebadged Mercury. And if you were a L-M dealer, you had the Meteor and Frontenac to sell for a while, rebadged Fords. Later on the Meteor was more in line with US Mercury models. But it was all very confusing.

magnette

Thanks for that - I don't know why it wouldn't open for me in Safari but it's fine now.

I didn't really realise how much even the Thames van sold over there for Ford dealers - I would have thought that Ford made enough small vans locally but I suppose the British ones would be smaller than even the smallest car based pick-up or sedan based van.

You have the Ford 400E Thames in panel van and to the right a pick up version, and I think there is a minibus version as well behind the left hand row of cars.

The Mk II Consul (204E) is there - two on the left and third by the pick up, and there is also a new Ford 100E as well - if it's 1957- 9 then it's a face lifted 100E Anglia but in 1959 it would become the Popular 100E

There is also a Zephyr 206E on the right and another in the showroom with a 100E Prefect - I don't think that's a 107E which was also introduced in 1959
Did their cars sell in reasonable numbers there - I know we see them sometimes in street scenes but would they be sold only in odd sites or as a general feature of the Ford range?

There isn't a 105E Anglia here so it is presumably before that was launched in the summer of 1959

sda

kyfdx said:

andys120 said:

tmart said:

Well, it’s a Buick with three portholes, so not a Roadmaster, maybe a Le Sabre?

Yup, it's a LeSabre, you can tell it's its a '61 by the pointy fenders. Looking back it's odd to think that it was once common for full-sized cars to be sold w only two doors,

My mother's two-doors:
'67 Bonneville (spaceship)
'72 Lincoln
'76 Lincoln

My parents had these two door full size cars:
55 Chevy 210, 6 cyl, all manual
59 Pontiac Catalina, black, red interior, automatic, ps
63 Olds Dynamic 88 Holiday, ac
71 Pontiac Catalina 350, dark metallic brown, vinyl top Rallye II wheels, ac
78 Olds 98 Regency, AstroRoof, 403
79 Cadillac Eldorado diesel, 2 tone brown, steel top

fintail

There effectively weren't any mass produced vans as we know it in the NA market, until the VW Microbus and other invaders like that Thames.

There were car-based sedan deliveries, and pickup-based vans, which were like a pickup with a finished cargo area roughly the same height as the cab. The VW and a couple Euros brought over some forward control vans in the late 50s, and eventually there was demand for this efficient layout. Soon after we had Falcon vans, Corvans, and the Dodge vans.

magnette said:

Thanks for that - I don't know why it wouldn't open for me in Safari but it's fine now.

I didn't really realise how much even the Thames van sold over there for Ford dealers - I would have thought that Ford made enough small vans locally but I suppose the British ones would be smaller than even the smallest car based pick-up or sedan based van.

You have the Ford 400E Thames in panel van and to the right a pick up version, and I think there is a minibus version as well behind the left hand row of cars.

The Mk II Consul (204E) is there - two on the left and third by the pick up, and there is also a new Ford 100E as well - if it's 1957- 9 then it's a face lifted 100E Anglia but in 1959 it would become the Popular 100E

There is also a Zephyr 206E on the right and another in the showroom with a 100E Prefect - I don't think that's a 107E which was also introduced in 1959
Did their cars sell in reasonable numbers there - I know we see them sometimes in street scenes but would they be sold only in odd sites or as a general feature of the Ford range?

There isn't a 105E Anglia here so it is presumably before that was launched in the summer of 1959

ab348

magnette said:

Thanks for that - I don't know why it wouldn't open for me in Safari but it's fine now.

I didn't really realise how much even the Thames van sold over there for Ford dealers - I would have thought that Ford made enough small vans locally but I suppose the British ones would be smaller than even the smallest car based pick-up or sedan based van.

You have the Ford 400E Thames in panel van and to the right a pick up version, and I think there is a minibus version as well behind the left hand row of cars.

The Mk II Consul (204E) is there - two on the left and third by the pick up, and there is also a new Ford 100E as well - if it's 1957- 9 then it's a face lifted 100E Anglia but in 1959 it would become the Popular 100E

There is also a Zephyr 206E on the right and another in the showroom with a 100E Prefect - I don't think that's a 107E which was also introduced in 1959
Did their cars sell in reasonable numbers there - I know we see them sometimes in street scenes but would they be sold only in odd sites or as a general feature of the Ford range?

There isn't a 105E Anglia here so it is presumably before that was launched in the summer of 1959

I think the British Fords (at least some of the more popular models) were sold by most Ford dealers here but not all. They usually were a sideline. But there were obviously a handful of exclusive dealers as we have seen. I found this announcement notice for another one in Toronto online:




When I was 12 or 13, we had a country place and my oldest brother got a free junk car to use in the field there, a black 4-door Consul. I learned how to drive and use a manual column shift in that.

ab348

By the mid-1960s, VW had established a standardized look for many of their showrooms that dealers constructing new buildings would follow. I don't think it was as much of a mandate then as it is with most manufacturers today, but this design from Toronto in 1965 seemed widely used. This address is now Toronto Honda.

Beyond all the Beetles there are a few things of note in these pics, both at the dealership main lot and in the second pic of their storage lot. Both expand slightly with a right-click.

andys120

I think I see a Porsche 356 at the right end of the building. VW Notchback appears on right in second pic. and the grille belongs to a 1960 Pontiac (the only one since '59 w no grille split).
My '65 VW came from a dealership w the same architecture, it is long gone.

stickguy

Nice VW Pick up in the 2nd picture too.

andys120

stickguy

I was thinking it was odd how many Nash’s there were, until I noticed it was the Nash dealer used car lot!

Nice stude at right front too. Hawk?

andys120

stickguy said:

I was thinking it was odd how many Nash’s there were, until I noticed it was the Nash dealer used car lot!

Nice stude at right front too. Hawk?

Yup, it's an early Studebaker Hawk ca.1956-7.

Oldest car may be a Willys wagon peeking out from left side. It's next to an early 50s Studebaker. I'm not good at Nashes so have at it guys.

magnette

The black car in the front row is a 54 Mercury with the heavy hood ornament but I don't know what model
In front of the little shack is a Dodge, light with a dark roof - again I guess a 54 model - there's a similar one alongside the shack above the wing of the Cadillac which I think is a 52 model
behind that is a 53 Chevrolet - that is not the flashiest so not a Bel Air - is it a 210?

magnette

I also think there is a Packard - maybe a Clipper - in the row headed by the Mercury - it's about in line with the shack
I'm looking at the Nashes but they are very similar - but there is a 2-tone Rambler in line with the front of the Cadillac and think that is a 57