Mystery car pix

ab348

magnette said:

That black car facing us above the slope outside the main entrance has a grille which looks odd- is that a Meteor too?

Nice XK 140/150 too and that Traveller could be as new as anything there too as although it looks ancient they were making those into 1971 though probably stopped going over the pond few years before

I believe the black car is a '64 Ford. The XK is probably that of one of the doctors.

ab348

Great picture, @magnette - what is the car between the yellow Robin and the turquoise van? Is the high-roof van on the right a Commer?

magnette

@sda

Yes, that would be the Mark 3 Cortina - Britains best selling car in it's day.

Funnily enough by the time this picture came about apart from that the Mk 2 the other Cortinas are mk 4 or 5 which were the last ones. Its surprising how few older cars are there - every street a few years earlier would have had several mk 3 Cortinas..

He wasn't tempted by the contemporary Reliant three wheeler then ?

magnette

@ab348

Hi -that is a Vauxhall Chevette - I think the silver blue colour with the black vinyl roof was a special edition which shows how easy it was to sell anything then!

Two car left of it is an Escort with a similar colour scheme

The high roof van is a rarity in Britain - I don't think they were sold here - it is probably a European tourist.

I suspect fin might get it

fintail

Could the red car 2 to the right of the white car with the hood up be a Zastava? Red car between it and the white car appears to be a Datsun Sunny (sold here as B210, 2nd gen), and what looks like a facelift Fiesta on the other side of the mystery red car.

High roof van looks like a Barkas, kind of odd to see in the UK.

magnette

Fin - you are right on both counts.

I don't think the Barkas is directly from East Germany but they sold them in Belgium, Holland etc so probably a Benelux tourist.

The Zastava was sold here as the Yugo, and that model was a Yugo 55 although the badges on them were Zastava on the early ones I think. We also got the Yugo 45 which was a bit later, and even the car you got as the Florida although that was sold as the Yugo Sana here.

About fifteen years ago the old chap across the street had one of those Yugo 55's and his one was red too - I haven't seen another one since.

I think the white car with the hood up is a Ford Taunus so that is another tourist. So is the white M-Benz van with the black roof and odd windows. I don't think that was ever sold here...

I'll try to find a couple more of this type of shot as the colour helps make them more interesting too.

sda

magnette said:

@sda

Yes, that would be the Mark 3 Cortina - Britains best selling car in it's day.

Funnily enough by the time this picture came about apart from that the Mk 2 the other Cortinas are mk 4 or 5 which were the last ones. Its surprising how few older cars are there - every street a few years earlier would have had several mk 3 Cortinas..

He wasn't tempted by the contemporary Reliant three wheeler then ?

Lol. He didn’t have a choice, those two were his boss’s hand me downs. His firm was working with BP and Elf. He was assigned to work more with Elf which transferred us to France. There he did get to choose the color on his Renault 16 TL and Renault 30, the 16 a medium metallic blue and the 30 a solid navy blue.

fintail

We only had the Yugo GV/GVX (sport trim model) in both hatch and cabrio form. Started for MY 1986, base price ~$3995, but I think many of them ended up stickering close to 5K if someone wanted AC, and I think a GVX cabrio was more like 10K. As one can imagine, they were not durable, and by Y2K most of them were gone. I recall in the early 90s, someone down the street from my grandparents was a Yugo hoarder, had a couple runners and maybe 10 parts cars, which I found very amusing. I recall when the GV was new, a young woman who worked for my dad had one, red (most seemed to be red), IIRC it had a constant transmission issue, either failing, or maybe something with the shift cable, but I remember he mentioned it stranded her more than once.

We never got the Florida/Sana. I see HubNut found a Sana, those have to be insanely rare, for a reason. Kind of resembles an early Hyundai Excel. I don't think that one was offered in Canada either. although Canada did get Skoda and Lada, both of which I found very interesting when I was a kid, as I had somewhat of a thing for eastern bloc/Russian material, and these seemed very exotic to me (I still kind of like the Lada Signet and Niva/Cossack).

Hard to imagine cars not being black/white/grey.

magnette said:

Fin - you are right on both counts.

I don't think the Barkas is directly from East Germany but they sold them in Belgium, Holland etc so probably a Benelux tourist.

The Zastava was sold here as the Yugo, and that model was a Yugo 55 although the badges on them were Zastava on the early ones I think. We also got the Yugo 45 which was a bit later, and even the car you got as the Florida although that was sold as the Yugo Sana here.

About fifteen years ago the old chap across the street had one of those Yugo 55's and his one was red too - I haven't seen another one since.

I think the white car with the hood up is a Ford Taunus so that is another tourist. So is the white M-Benz van with the black roof and odd windows. I don't think that was ever sold here...

I'll try to find a couple more of this type of shot as the colour helps make them more interesting too.

magnette

There is actually a Lada in that picture it's the yellow car with a space in front of it two right of the Mk II Cortina.
Another one you didn't get over there was the Renault 14 which sold really well as a Maestro / Escort competitor here for about three years and is probably extinct now - I haven't seen one on the road for years and its not the sort of car that turns up at car shows.
There appears to be a white R14 diagonally left of that Lada.

I went to a car show a few years ago and there was a Yugo Sana there - only one I've seen since they were new I think

magnette

@sda The Renault 16 was a really clever car in its day, and I knew someone who had a 20 - and subsequently a 30 - in the day as well.
They were quite advanced and original cars but would be rare now in UK, although perhaps not as rare in France.

ab348

Here's another one from my hometown of Halifax, probably taken around the same time in the early '60s as the previous one I posted, showing the area to the left and to the rear of the earlier picture. Expands nicely.

sda

magnette said:

@sda The Renault 16 was a really clever car in its day, and I knew someone who had a 20 - and subsequently a 30 - in the day as well.
They were quite advanced and original cars but would be rare now in UK, although perhaps not as rare in France.

There are several features and oddities that I remember of the Renault 16. The interior configuration could be changed in many ways which made for a very roomy cargo area. The seats, though plain, were soft and comfortable. The wipers did not have auto park so they would stop when switched off. You had to hit the switch to off on the full down stroke. The wipers and radio also worked when the car was not running and no key in the ignition. When the car had a full load the rear suspension compressed and caused the front end to point upwards. To counter this there was a manual dial that changed the aim of the headlights downward and not blind oncoming motorists. The car had a manual choke, which mom hated. It rode well, had heavy steering and was noisy.

stickguy

Volvo 122 Amazon behind a 60 Ford, next to a white valiant. And a Chevy II wagon up on the dirt. Quite a few corvair scattered around too.

magnette

I drove in a couple of Citroen 2CVs when I was a student and although the seats in them were made like flimsy deck chairs, they were really comfortable - and you could take out all of them using one universal spanner - the same one would remove the wings, doors whatever.
It was like a bicycle !
The suspension was better than you would get in most cars - although I would say the old Wolseley 18/85 my dad had was even better, with hydrolastic suspension - and the 2cv also had a fully opening roof. The gear change was a pull push effort on the dashboard but it was intuitive after a few minutes and quite precise.

A minus was zero performance but on country roads and lanes etc it was great, good ground clearance, narrow enough to pass anything you met... They were cheap as chips and full of character.

Also I had friends with Renault 4's and they were much the same too.

magnette

No crash protection though, I would imagine - a skateboard could have written one off.

fintail

Quite a few Vauxhall Envoy/Victor in Halifax, not spotting the 60 Ford. I also see a British Ford (Zephyr?) lower middle between a 62 Ford and 64 Chevy, and a 63 Galaxie convertible at right next to a pair of Beetles.

re: Renault 4, always makes me think of Danny DeVito.

tjc78

“ e: Renault 4, always makes me think of Danny DeVito”

Such a great movie.

magnette

Sorry - I hadn't spotted the Halifax picture somehow until now.

The British Ford is a Consul and there are a number of Vauxhall Victors some of which are presumably Envoys. Particularly then through the tree and parked near the building which has a stripe on the side which I think is the trim for an Envoy.
There is even a Victor / Envoy FB two up from the left hand Corvair.

I also see a Rambler American bottom right and the Amazon behind the 62 Ford

What is the wagon on the edge of the field ? is that a Chevy II or would that be an Acadian?

magnette

@tjc78
Yes Danny DeVito in the R4 going through the jungle - brilliant -

ab348

Nobody seems to have spotted the Mini with the cargo rack on the roof in the Halifax picture.

magnette

I hadn't noticed before that there is a dark Vauxhall Victor FC Estate in the foreground

I am surprised I didn't see it before as my dad had one and it was the first car I ever drove -briefly - when I was about twelve (on a beach)

magnette

This is in Durham, northern England, with a view of the cathedral and adjacent castle-all early medieval I think.

Not much excitement but a couple of odd cars - mid seventies I think

andys120

The light blue trunkback car is a Hillman Imp.

magnette

This is early 1980s in Bromley south London - not as blue as Durham - but less interesting architecture
This one should open if clicked

stickguy

just behind the wall, over by the brown Chevette looking appliance, a Renault Fuego (or whatever # that was over there, a 16 maybe?). and 3rd row, far end, orange car looks like an Open Manta.

ab348

In the Durham pic, is the car in the right foreground an Austin Farina sedan? Looks similar but I'm not sure if the fins are all enough.

At least 3 Minis of course. The car in the left foreground with the angled fins looks to be a mid-60s Hillman Super Minx. The car next to it says Renault to me for some reason but I can't pin down an exact match, so perhaps not. Not sure if the small van is a Minor or something else.

magnette

@stickguy

The brown car by the wall is an Austin Maxi, and the grey coupe through the bush is an Audi Quattro Coupe - the orange car is a Triumph - I think a 2000 but possibly a Dolomite EDIT - the lights are wrong for a Dolomite so its a 2000

ab348

In the Bromley pic, on the camera side of the wall is an Austin Maxi. On the other side in the second row at the far right, is that a Lancia? A green 2CV a few to the left of that.

Some oddballs I can't ID in the last row by the trees - a red vehicle of some sort that looks almost like a small pickup with a box topper, a white van of some sort, and a white over dark car of some sort, maybe even a convertible.

magnette

@ab348

Yes the angled fins are a Super Minx relative, this is the version marketed here as the Singer Vogue - the only difference is the little badge above the boot handle
The finned car to the right is not a Brit, it's from fair bit further East, and the car next to the Minx/Vogue is Eastern too
The van is a Ford Thames - basically its the van version of the Anglia 105E - the nearest competition for the Minor van here

magnette

@andys120
Yes, that is a Hillman Imp - probably the best selling car ever built in Scotland

The Minis show the differences that came along as the model developed. The black and white one is the original mk I with smaller windows, indeed sliding door windows, and the small lights, the blue one in the middle is a Mk 2 and looks pretty new, with the later type of lights and wind down windows, and the other mk 1 facing us shows the original external door hinges.

fintail

Do I spy a Wartburg 353 at far left, yellow plate, mudflaps?

magnette said:

This is in Durham, northern England, with a view of the cathedral and adjacent castle-all early medieval I think.

Not much excitement but a couple of odd cars - mid seventies I think

fintail

Quite a few things there. My eye is initially drawn to the Audi coupe just behind the Maxi at left. In the next row "up", right, 3 to the right of a 2CV, appears to be a FSO Polonez - I bet those are virtually extinct now.

One row "back" from that row, behind a Maestro, is a cool 5 door Saab. 6 to the right of that is a light yellow/orange Renault 4, not in Cartagena.

Then at the very back row I spy a red Matra Rancho (kind of above the Saab), just to the right of that a Rover P5, and I think the high roof van is a Toyota HiAce. Just "below" the van and Rover I see a MB R107 with a black soft top, and a Renault 18 wagon beside it.

magnette said:

This is early 1980s in Bromley south London - not as blue as Durham - but less interesting architecture
This one should open if clicked

magnette

@fintail
Yes - the Wartburg 353 - sold here as the Knight

fintail

Finned car to the right - Moskvich 412?

magnette said:

@ab348

Yes the angled fins are a Super Minx relative, this is the version marketed here as the Singer Vogue - the only difference is the little badge above the boot handle
The finned car to the right is not a Brit, it's from fair bit further East, and the car next to the Minx/Vogue is Eastern too
The van is a Ford Thames - basically its the van version of the Anglia 105E - the nearest competition for the Minor van here

magnette

@ab348
Back in Bromley - yes to the Maxi - in fact there is also a younger version - copper colour - in the row above the 2CV

That car to the far end of the row beyond that 2CVis not a Lancia although the general shape does look like a Beta - instead it's from eastern Europe...

The red car looking like a box pick up is something unusual although they made thousands of it in it's native country - which was France...

The large white van is some version of Toyota - possibly a Hi-Ace? - I'm not good with Japanese vans

I wasn't sure about the distant dark car with the white roof but having looked at it properly again I think it is a Hillman / Chrysler / Talbot Avenger - a dark one with white vinyl roof and probably a late one so maybe more likely to be a Talbot than a Hillman. Also known as a Plymouth Cricket in some parts.
(and as they made many early Avengers in the Hillman plant in Scotland too it is possible my earlier suggestion that theImp was Scotland's most popular car may be wrong)

ab348

Well, the Matra Rancho is something I did not know existed prior to today. What an odd duck.

fintail

I think our paths crossed I am reasonably sure the van is a HiAce.

Car at the far end is a FSO Polonez, which I suspect became hen's teeth 30 years ago.

magnette said:

@ab348
Back in Bromley - yes to the Maxi - in fact there is also a younger version - copper colour - in the row above the 2CV

That car to the far end of the row beyond that 2CVis not a Lancia although the general shape does look like a Beta - instead it's from eastern Europe...

The red car looking like a box pick up is something unusual although they made thousands of it in it's native country - which was France...

The large white van is some version of Toyota - possibly a Hi-Ace? - I'm not good with Japanese vans

I wasn't are about the distant dark car with the white roof but having looked at it properly again I think it is a Hillman / Chrysler / Talbot Avenger - a dark one with white vinyl roof and probably a late one so maybe more likely to be a Talbot than a Hillman. Also known as a Plymouth Cricket in some parts.
(and as they made many early Avengers in the Hillman plant in Scotland too it is possible my earlier suggestion that theImp was Scotland's most popular car may be wrong)

magnette

Hi Fin

Yes, the range of cars in those days was quite surprising.

The FSO Polonez was a reasonable seller here although brown wasn't kind to it - the most common colour I can recall was maroon red I think and that looked poor too

That Matro Rancho was also a popular car here in its day, as Simcas were too. It was Matra Simca at first then became Talbot Matra but I think they were always just called Ranchos I\ve seen one or two around unlike most other Simcas

You got the Moskvitch 412 in Durham too and in Bromley the Renault 18 estate and I think that Renault 4 was an end of line run off model - we had a different grille here from the ones in France towards the end I think and some odd colours too including turquoise as well

The car next to the Rancho isn't a Rover P5 though- its a Morris Oxford mk VI Farina - one of the last probably as it finished in about 1972
Glad you also found a M-Benz soft top to offset the more odd cars..

fintail

Street scenes were more interesting when 7/10 vehicles on the road weren't a bloatling CUV. We got few of the ones I spotted - we did have the Renault 18 for a few years, and the SL almost certainly sold more in the US than anywhere else, probably even more than the EU combined too.

Looking again, far right in the row with the Saab and Renault 4, second to last car, is a Subaru Leone (DL/GL here), maybe somewhat unusual there then. Under the tree in the back row looks like a BMW E30.

magnette said:

Hi Fin

Yes, the range of cars in those days was quite surprising.

The FSO Polonez was a reasonable seller here although brown wasn't kind to it - the most common colour I can recall was maroon red I think and that looked poor too

That Matro Rancho was also a popular car here in its day, as Simcas were too. It was Matra Simca at first then became Talbot Matra but I think they were always just called Ranchos I\ve seen one or two around unlike most other Simcas

You got the Moskvitch 412 in Durham too and in Bromley the Renault 18 estate and I think that Renault 4 was an end of line run off model - we had a different grille here from the ones in France towards the end I think and some odd colours too including turquoise as well

The car next to the Rancho isn't a Rover P5 though- its a Morris Oxford mk VI Farina - one of the last probably as it finished in about 1972
Glad you also found a M-Benz soft top to offset the more odd cars..

stickguy

well, back in the 60s, most everything was a bloated 4 door domestic barge. was that really better?

fintail

Yes! Especially in the UK or the continent. Now even Europe is being overrun with soft roaders, and I suspect driving wherewithal is suffering at the same time.

stickguy

well, if you are only able to have one car, a small box is the way to go. These are just taller small hatches or station wagons. Not everyone wants a really low car these days. So I have no problem with them. Especially ones that are nice driving (quickness and handling) like the RDX.

fintail

Of course you have no problem with ones like the RDX, you drive an RDX

I guess it's the false pretense of ruggedness and aggression that makes me cringe most, but to be fair, many cars have the latter, too.

stickguy

at least if you have reasonably capable AWD and decent ground clearance, it is not really posing. Even if no one is going more off-road than a gravel driveway or parking on the grass. At least I know I could if I wanted to.

fintail

I can do all that in my wagon, and it sits low enough where my 70+ year old mom doesn't care for ingress/egress (apparently her Camry is a little higher, and I suspect her next car will be a RAV4 or similar). That demographic in age and/or gender is probably the driving force.

stickguy

the proliferation of PU trucks (that keep growing taller) and other SUVs creates a self fulfilling prophecy too. Need to sit up higher to see over the other cars!

fintail

Sitting high has never strongly appealed to me - it can be comfortable in a sofa kind of way, but the handling always feels ponderous, even if the vehicle is stable. Doesn't make me feel safer, as I know it does for some. But my opinion appears to be becoming a minority.

If anything, tha self fulfilling prophecy might be on the safety side too - be taller so when the distracted CUV/SUV/truck dolt t-bones you, you'll face less damage - but as they get bigger, you need to follow.

ab348

What I find more troubling with current vehicle preferences is getting out of spots in parking lots. If you return to your car and find yourself parked between a minivan or SUV on one side and a Peterbilt-sized pickup on the other, the complete lack of visibility on either side means getting out into the lane requires you to be flying blind. Perhaps sedans will require telescopic periscopes in the future!

sda

What’s maddening even before you try to back up is just getting in the car. I’ve had jerks park so close I had to literally squeeze to get in. Twice, I thought I might have open the trunk, lower the back seat and crawl in.

texases

ab348 said:

What I find more troubling with current vehicle preferences is getting out of spots in parking lots. If you return to your car and find yourself parked between a minivan or SUV on one side and a Peterbilt-sized pickup on the other, the complete lack of visibility on either side means getting out into the lane requires you to be flying blind. Perhaps sedans will require telescopic periscopes in the future!

That's why backup cameras are now mandatory for any car I buy. Better to back out with a camera than park with the front faced out and deal with the problem you describe.