I don't know... Do you think the Hornet had "three on the tree", with dual seats instead of a bench?
Yes. Actually AMC cars frequently used the dual "comfort seats" with a column shift--even a manual. You'll see this on Hornets and Pacers, and I think also the Matador and Ambassador sometimes.
This one, however, is an automatic. The third pedal is the parking brake.
Other US manufacturers often paired the column shift automatic with true bucket seats--especially common with GM midsize (A-body) coupes from the '60s and '70s.
Even Camaros sometimes came with the column-shift automatic and buckets. But the weirdest combo was the rare bench-seat Mustang, which retained the floor shifter even on automatic examples.
No MB really has had the flair since...the fins were a gutsy move, tacked on right as they were going out of style. And to think, in 1959 it was considered very modern and restrained. The 114/115 are good little shoeboxes though.
Those are pretty much modern classics now, "youngtimers" as they are called in Germany. Design looks pretty nice from something made during the height of malaise.
Other US manufacturers often paired the column shift automatic with true bucket seats--especially common with GM midsize (A-body) coupes from the '60s and '70s.
I had a 1969 Dodge Dart GT that was like that...bucket seats with a column shift automatic. I thought it was kinda strange at the time that they equipped a car like that.
It's my impression that the tracks actually were wider by an inch or so. Whether that was from changes in the whole frame or in parts that carry the suspension being extended to give the wide track, I don't know. Maybe there is a mechan ic from that era who knows.
It's my impression that the tracks actually were wider by an inch or so. Whether that was from changes in the whole frame or in parts that carry the suspension being extended to give the wide track, I don't know
I have the same impression. A lot of it was visual, created by styling. I think the split grille was used to give the front extra width. Pontiac may not have had the best styling but their brochure art was loaded with stretched out images that made the cars look impossibly wide and low. >
The Bonnies in this brochure look like aircraft carriers seen in profile>
Speed Six was the name of the first in-house TVR engine, and in models offering a choice between the six and a V8, the name Speed Six was used to denote the "trim level," as in "TVR Tuscan Speed Six."
Alas, the Chimaera was not one of these. It was powered by a slightly massaged Rover V8.
two of Pontiac's greatest marketing inspirations — the split grille and the Wide Track slogan. The latter was not just ad copy, either, as Pontiac pushed its wheels further out toward the fenders than anyone else and created what were considered to be the best-cornering full-size cars in the industry.
I tried to find data on the track width of similar GM cars for comparison, but didn't.
As for TVR, one of the priorities of the company's management in the 1990s was to produce as much as possible of the cars without recourse to outside suppliers. Thus, they went from outsourced engines, electrical components, etc. to an almost completely in-house arrangement. The cars got much faster, and more expensive to build too. This was almost certainly a factor in the company's financial problems after 2000.
I think the 59/60 Pontiac looked more like the aircraft carrier, especially in that wraparound glass 4 dr flat top hardtop style! Believe it or not, the 61 Pontiacs actually looked a bit small compared to some of the 61 mid priced competition when they first came out.
I remember that those early wide track Pontiacs didn't fit in the tracks at some of the car washes. Wide track was a great marketing gimmick at the time, but I'm not sure it really did anything for you.
The white one was super rare, it's a Fairthorpe TXS with a 2 liter Triumph engine, it's not a kit but a production car and now races classic evens in Japan.
I say was super rare but a TXSS sports racer has just been found in a barn in England, this one has the 2.5 liter triumph TR6 engine. Quite a find, maby the only remaining one in existence!
It's my impression that the tracks actually were wider by an inch or so. Whether that was from changes in the whole frame or in parts that carry the suspension being extended to give the wide track, I don't know. Maybe there is a mechan ic from that era who knows.
The wider track was from suspension parts. From 1959-64, Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles used the same frame, which was a perimeter frame, and had the typical somewhat shallow trunk with the gas tank strapped underneath. Chevies and Buicks used the wasp-waisted "X" frame, and had a deep well trunk with the gas tank mounted more vertical, between the rear axle and the trunk well...sort of like a modern Crown Vic.
In 1965 they all went to a perimeter frame, but I think Pontiac still used different suspension components to make for a wider track, for a few years.
Believe it or not, the 61 Pontiacs actually looked a bit small compared to some of the 61 mid priced competition when they first came out.
Actually, there's some truth to that. In 1959-60, Pontiac used a 122" wb for Catalinas and 124" for Star Chiefs and Bonnevilles. In 1961, the Catalina moved down to the same 119" wb that the Impala used. The bigger Pontiacs were also cut slightly, from 124" to 123".
I think the Catalina's wheelbase went up to 120 or 121" for 1962, but can't remember if the Bonneville did or not. All I remember is by 1967, my Catalina's on a 121" wheelbase, while the Bonneville/Executive was on a 124", and they put the extra 3" in about the most useless place imaginable...just before the rear axle. So basically, the rear wheels sit back further in relation to the C-pillar. The passenger cabins are the same, so you don't get any extra room inside, although it does give you more trunk space...way up front where you'd never be able to reach!
That's great - shows what junk can accumulate round a car when it hasn't moved for a while. It might well be unique, as they can't have built many to start with....
I finally got around to looking at all the pics from the Supercar Registry street scenes page. Out of all the pics, I found one fintail - and it's a cool pic. A foreign car dealer, ca. 1961 I would guess. Lots of odd cars to identify here:
Those oddballs represent the first line of an invasion that would eventually have a huge impact on the upper middle end of the NA market.
Comments
Yes. Actually AMC cars frequently used the dual "comfort seats" with a column shift--even a manual. You'll see this on Hornets and Pacers, and I think also the Matador and Ambassador sometimes.
This one, however, is an automatic. The third pedal is the parking brake.
Other US manufacturers often paired the column shift automatic with true bucket seats--especially common with GM midsize (A-body) coupes from the '60s and '70s.
Even Camaros sometimes came with the column-shift automatic and buckets. But the weirdest combo was the rare bench-seat Mustang, which retained the floor shifter even on automatic examples.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Pantera looks funny updated.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I had a 1969 Dodge Dart GT that was like that...bucket seats with a column shift automatic. I thought it was kinda strange at the time that they equipped a car like that.
AFAIK TVR never used the name Speed Six, that was a 1920s Bentley sports racer.
The black roadster is a TVR Chimaera (1992-2003) powered by the ubiquitous Rover-Buick V8.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
And did Pontiacs actually have wider wheel tracks then other GMs?
p.s.-Here's a more-realistic view:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I have the same impression. A lot of it was visual, created by styling. I think the split grille was used to give the front extra width. Pontiac may not have had the best styling but their brochure art was loaded with stretched out images that made the cars look impossibly wide and low. >
The Bonnies in this brochure look like aircraft carriers seen in profile>
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Speed Six was the name of the first in-house TVR engine, and in models offering a choice between the six and a V8, the name Speed Six was used to denote the "trim level," as in "TVR Tuscan Speed Six."
Alas, the Chimaera was not one of these. It was powered by a slightly massaged Rover V8.
Trademark laws must be pretty loose in the UK, the Bentley Speed Six was one of the most famous names in the history of Bentley.
It's something like Bristol making an engine and calling it the "Silver Ghost".
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
two of Pontiac's greatest marketing inspirations — the split grille and the Wide Track slogan. The latter was not just ad copy, either, as Pontiac pushed its wheels further out toward the fenders than anyone else and created what were considered to be the best-cornering full-size cars in the industry.
I tried to find data on the track width of similar GM cars for comparison, but didn't.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As for TVR, one of the priorities of the company's management in the 1990s was to produce as much as possible of the cars without recourse to outside suppliers. Thus, they went from outsourced engines, electrical components, etc. to an almost completely in-house arrangement. The cars got much faster, and more expensive to build too. This was almost certainly a factor in the company's financial problems after 2000.
It did wonders for Poncho sales which took off in the '60s.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I say was super rare but a TXSS sports racer has just been found in a barn in England, this one has the 2.5 liter triumph TR6 engine. Quite a find, maby the only remaining one in existence!
The wider track was from suspension parts. From 1959-64, Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles used the same frame, which was a perimeter frame, and had the typical somewhat shallow trunk with the gas tank strapped underneath. Chevies and Buicks used the wasp-waisted "X" frame, and had a deep well trunk with the gas tank mounted more vertical, between the rear axle and the trunk well...sort of like a modern Crown Vic.
In 1965 they all went to a perimeter frame, but I think Pontiac still used different suspension components to make for a wider track, for a few years.
Actually, there's some truth to that. In 1959-60, Pontiac used a 122" wb for Catalinas and 124" for Star Chiefs and Bonnevilles. In 1961, the Catalina moved down to the same 119" wb that the Impala used. The bigger Pontiacs were also cut slightly, from 124" to 123".
I think the Catalina's wheelbase went up to 120 or 121" for 1962, but can't remember if the Bonneville did or not. All I remember is by 1967, my Catalina's on a 121" wheelbase, while the Bonneville/Executive was on a 124", and they put the extra 3" in about the most useless place imaginable...just before the rear axle. So basically, the rear wheels sit back further in relation to the C-pillar. The passenger cabins are the same, so you don't get any extra room inside, although it does give you more trunk space...way up front where you'd never be able to reach!
Starchief
Bonneville
Front track - 63.7 inches
Rear track - 64 inches
I posted it because my Dad had the 1978 American Ford Granada:
Too many side windows.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
State of Victoria HP in Australia.
Those oddballs represent the first line of an invasion that would eventually have a huge impact on the upper middle end of the NA market.
Slightly larger version here