Mystery car pix

kyfdx

A Bonneville with buckets? I'm guessing GP, as well..

My mom's '62 Star Chief is the first car that I have a memory of.. She kept it until '67, when she traded it on a '67 Bonneville fastback coupe..

andys120

'010 Lotus Evora is correct.

andys120

Some interesting cars in the background of this one, anyone have a clue as to the white car on right?

jlbl

It's a Fiat, but I do not recognize the model and I'm short of time to do a search now.

anyone have a clue as to the white car on right?

It could be a Fiat (or Seat) 600 with a rear window little spoiler.

Regards,
Jose

fintail

Looks like a Fiat 2300.

In the background there's a Morgan and a couple of MB 107s.

stephen987

Fiat 2300S in the foreground, next to a Fiat (I think it's a 500L, not 600).
Background: Morgan (4/4 or +4), mid-'70s Mercedes-Benz SLC, MB SL (R107 as fintail correctly notes).

andys120

I thought the little white car might be a Fiat/Seat 500/600 but I didn't recall them having a rear window that was so low at the bottom and the roofline didn't look right (perhaps Jose is right about a spoiler lip).

I slipped you guys a mickey on the Fiat 2300, it's actually a 1965 Steyr-Fiat 2300, built under license in Austria by Steyr-Daimler-Puch. They're now part of Magna International, a Canadian company, as Magna-Steyr building complete cars and components for various companies.

andys120

Please note: a small portion of the roofline has been cropped from this schematic to remove a tell-tale logo.>

stephen987

Fiat 128.

scscars

I read last week that the LAPD has ordered a group of Pontiac G8s for testing as potential police cars, and that should the testing be successful, a larger group may be imported as Pontiacs or Chevrolets after the end of 2010 for police use. Of course that depends on whether GM's around and who owns Holden down the road.

boomchek

I agree

andys120

Yep it's a Fiat 128, which got a bad rep for being the basis of the Zastava Yugo but was a pioneer in the practical application of FWD to small cars.

stephen987

It wasn't a bad car at all when it was introduced ca. 1970. The problem is that Zastava was still building it 20 years later!

andys120

This car was bought new by an inventor who still has it after over 600,000 miles.>

stephen987

I believe that's a '71 Mustang.

texases

I read that article - no mention of how many times he's replace/rebuilt things, like engine, tranny, brakes, etc....just lots of talk about his record keeping.

andys120

Yep, it's a '71. I'm not sure why someone would bother to keep one of the least favorite Mustangs for so long but it's an interesting story.

stephen987

It could be worse. Someone, somewhere, has a '74 Mustang II Ghia out there in pristine condition, with the dark green padded vinyl roof, 2.3L four and automatic.

andre1969

t could be worse. Someone, somewhere, has a '74 Mustang II Ghia out there in pristine condition, with the dark green padded vinyl roof, 2.3L four and automatic.

Not only that, but sometimes they're even proud enough of their little beasties to show them up at antique car shows!

Guess I can't talk, because I put a '79 New Yorker in the same show. :P

I never liked the fat '71-73 generation of Mustang, but in all black, with those oversized looking tires, it's not too bad IMO.

stephen987

Wow--and it's even a '74! You can tell by the hood/grille line. For '75 they raised it a couple of inches to make room for the 302 V8.

Right after high school I dated a girl who drove a '78 Mustang II Ghia, copper-colored, with the padded vinyl roof and a V8 and automatic.

They deserved each other.

stephen987

michaellno

I'm not sure if I've told this story here before ....

When I lived in CA, I had a friend who owned two of these ... one was white with red stripes, the other white with blue stripes. Both were the hatchback models and had the 302 V8's in them.

Not sure which was which, but one had all the CA smog equipment on it, while the other was, shall we say, "modified" a bit. Of course, the legal one is the one that went in for all the smog tests, but the registration mysteriously found its way into the other one, which got driven every day. Hard, as you can imagine.

Yes, the VIN numbers were different, but I think my friend believed that if he were ever stopped for a traffic infraction, the cop probably wouldn't look that closely.

andre1969

Yes, the VIN numbers were different, but I think my friend believed that if he were ever stopped for a traffic infraction, the cop probably wouldn't look that closely.

I hate to say it, but having two '79 New Yorkers, that thought has crossed my mind.

magnette

Well, it's a 76 Plymouth Duster - so I'm guessing this is one of the silliest names ever (outside Japan) - the Feather Duster

texases

If you're curious:
"The Feather Duster included aluminum replacements for the inner hood, trunk bracing, bumper brackets, and intake manifold, cutting weight by 180 lb (around 5%). It had a smaller single barrel carburetor, economy distributor calibration, large exhaust, and a 2.8:1 rear axle ratio, with a choice of three-speed automatic or four-speed overdrive manual transmission.

While acceleration was compromised, the Feather Duster was now rated at 22 mpg city, 31 highway with the automatic (a stunning 24 city, 36 highway with the manual), and was larger inside than many other economy cars, though acceleration took a hit. "

stephen987

It is in fact a 1976 Plymouth Feather Duster. If I recall correctly AMC also offered a special high-mpg version of the Hornet Hatchback with a four-speed overdrive and the larger (258ci) six at about the same time. In '77 or '78 AMC added a four-cylinder version of the Gremlin powered by a 2-liter VW Group four, using the same block as the Porsche 924. Pontiac also stuck the Iron Duke four and a bad Borg-Warner T50 five-speed into the Phoenix ca. 1977.

Oddly, none of these matched the charisma of the Feather Duster.

andys120

fintail

Mid 90s Audi S4 Avant?

Not sure if those were ever sent to this side of the pond.

andys120

You have the year right but there was no S4 in the mid 90's.

stephen987

Just an A4 Avant with abnormally large wheels for the time?

andys120

Nope it's not an A4 either.

andre1969

Interesting, I never knew you could get a Feather Duster (the Dodge version was called the Dart Lite) with an automatic. I'd love to know what kind of "real world" fuel economy those cars really got. I had a '69 Dart GT with a 225 slant six, torqueflite, and 2.76:1 axle, and I'd usually get around 15-18 around town, maybe 22-23 on the highway.

I've heard that 36 mpg figure thrown around before, but I wonder how you'd have to drive to attain it? It just seems incredulous to me that Chrysler would've been able to take the same basic car and engine, and manage to improve highway economy by roughly 50% more than what I'm getting.

Then again, "highway" driving with my '69 Dart usually meant 70-75 mph or more. Plus it had a/c, although running or not didn't seem to affect its economy. Maybe if I kept it around 55-60, which is probably how you'd get 36 mpg out of a Feather Duster, I would've noticed a big mpg improvement? With the aerodynamics of that car, I guess it's certainly possible.

michaellno

Isn't that the RS2?

texases

"I've heard that 36 mpg figure thrown around before, but I wonder how you'd have to drive to attain it?"

That's the old/old/old EPA #, right? I imagine it's way optimistic for real use. Might it do 20% better? Maybe.

andys120

Isn't that the RS2?

Bingo! The 1994-96 Audi RS2 was basically a Porsche station wagon, based on the then current Audi 80/B4 but assembled at Porche's Zuffenhausen factory. Chock-full of performance enhancements it was capable of accelerating with contemporary supercars including Corvettes and Porsche's own 911/996.

About 2900 were built, none for export to the USA. All were Avants as were most Audi RS types until recently.

lokki

I think that picture is too old for that white foreign car to be a 240Z. My guess is that it's a early SAAB Sonnet. My dad loved SAAB's in the early 60's and I got to study these pretty carefully when we went to the dealer for service.





The earliest of these were tiny two-seaters on a sheet metal frame covered by a fiberglass body pulled around by a 3-cylinder 2-cycle engine. They were designed to be very, very light - less than 1500 pounds - since they didn't have much power in their original incarnation. Yes, there was a roll bar, but so what? That was the least of your worries.

Here are the spec's for the engine.
Longitudinally mounted 3-cylinder two-stroke engine.
Cylinder volume 841cc.
Compression ratio 9.0:1
Three carburetors, Solex 40 DHW
Rating 65hp (44 kW) at 5200 rpm.
Torque 9.6 kgm (94 Nm) at 4000 rpm (that's about 21 pounds of torque!!)
I remember reading a review of the car in (?) Sports Car Graphic(?) which had a phrase about the car that's stuck in my memory for all these years: - "The fiberglass body is beautiful and well made, but don't let the cat walk on it"

Eventually, the 2-stroke engine was replaced by an English Ford V4 engine, that remarkably managed to have no more horsepower than the 3-cylinder 2-stroke did.

My dad gave up on SAAB's when they went to English Ford engines. He test drove one and had to admit he enjoyed the torque from the 4-stroke (they'd ACCELERATE on an uphill grade!). However he wouldn't buy one.

He said that while he was a sadist who enjoyed flogging the little 2-stroke engines until they screamed, he wasn't masochist enough to own a car with an English engine.

Still, I always wanted one.

andre1969

That's the old/old/old EPA #, right? I imagine it's way optimistic for real use. Might it do 20% better? Maybe.

Actually I don't know where those 22/31 Torqueflite and 24/36 stick numbers came from, as the EPA didn't start doing those city/highway estimates until 1978. At least, on their website 1978 is the oldest data that's available for viewing. FWIW, the 1978 Volare was rated 20/28 with the slant six/stick (probably just a 3-on-the-tree) and 20/27 with the torqueflite. (and yep, these are the "old/old/old", raw EPA numbers...the same ones that put my 2000 Intrepid at around 24 city/38 highway)

So I guess it is possible, considering the Dart/Valiant were lighter than the Volare. And the overdrive gear in the 4-speed stick would've definitely helped.

stephen987

Andre, I hate to argue with you, but the EPA window stickers with city/highway mileage figures date from 1975. My folks bought a '76 Monza 2+2 with the "durabuilt" Vega four and automatic, and just barely managed to make it to the 20 mpg city rating in our very slow-moving small town. Never got to the 28 mpg highway rating, even on the slow-lane ride to Myrtle Beach.

stephen987

The white car does more nearly resemble the Sonett I than a GT6. But weren't there only a few hundred of those made?

andre1969

Andre, I hate to argue with you, but the EPA window stickers with city/highway mileage figures date from 1975.

Oh hell, if I'm wrong, argue away! :P What I might actually have been thinking of was CAFE standards. In 1975, I think that's when they set the standards for 1978, and any auto maker that didn't make the standard would get fined.

stephen987

That may be right. I seem to remember CAFE in '78 was 18 mpg, 19 in '79, 20 in '80, and an allegedly unachievable 27.5 by '85. (Incidentally Car & Driver got a 26 mpg average and 0-60 in 8.4 in a two-ton four cylinder Venza recently.)

I think it was also 1978 or 1979 when the tailpipe standards got so strict that even the CVCC Honda engines couldn't meet them without a catalytic converter. They were pretty much the last cars without one IIRC.

lokki

Wow... for some reason the GT-6 just didn't occur to me. You're right that the Sonnets were pretty scarce, although one DID make it to Pennsylvania where I was growing up, so it's theoretically possible, I guess.

Still the GT-6 seems a more likely bet. The hip-line at the rear fender seems to match just as well as on the Sonnett, but shouldn't the front bumper be visible, even in that distant picture?

lokki

Just to show that I haven't been ignoring the rest of the conversation -

That 'old Miata' is a Lotus Elan. I knew a guy who owned one in the mid-70's..... I only saw it actually running once.

I'd never heard of a FeatherDuster.... I was going to politely reproach Magnette, for having a bad joke at the expense of us Yankees..... :confuse: Instead we were having a bad joke on ourselves.

I much prefer the story I read once of a Dart Swinger that a magazine writer got from Dodge that had a prototype 440 in it instead of the usual 340. It was stolen from the street in front of his house. He tracked it all over NYC with the police. It was easy to track.... even though the thief kept repainting the car different colors!
All they had to do was go to places were street racing was common, and ask about the 340 Dart that kept blowing the doors off everybody.

They finally caught the thief, and - according to the writer- as the police took him away in cuffs, he offered to buy the car from the writer!

That's the kind of MOPAR story I prefer over the 'feather-duster'

stephen987

andys120

Well they're all RHD so probably Australian, colors are from the 70's but I can only guess the might be MoPars.

magnette

Leyland Force 7's - 1974. Based on the P76, but the Leyland Australia factory closed before the car went on sale and most of the couple of dozen built were scrapped. Less than ten survived, I think, including one which was sent to UK for Leyland bosses to see, but too late. I've seen pictures of that one with British plates, but presumably most of the rest are now in the hands of collectors down under.

magnette

Having at last found the picture way back, my vote is for the Saab Sonnett - for the white little coupe. The door aperture looks wrong for the Triumph, and right for the Saab.....

colloquor

I don't think it's a GT6, as the front end just doesn't look quite right, and the bumper (if there is one) is too high. If it is a GT6, however, it must be a Mark 1 (given the vintage of all of the other Detroit iron in the photo), and it had a low bumper. Mark 1's were produced from '66 through mid-'68 - in fact, I was once at a dealer that had both a Mark 1, and Mark 2 (GT6+) on the showroom floor in July 1968. And, there were many running changes on the GT6 Mark 1 - some not even documented. It appears that the car behind it is a Olds Toronado. Perhaps it's a Spit with a hard top option, or a Sonnet as it's hard to tell due to the resolution.

I bought a new 1967 GT6 Mark 1 in February 1968, and it was titled as a '68. And, I've owned SAABs too (mostly 99's and 900's) - still have a Classic 900.

stephen987

Magnette is correct. The three colorful coupes are examples of the 1974 Leyland Force 7, a coupe version of the P76 saloon that was supposed to be Leyland's big play for the Australian market. It could've been an interesting competitor for the Valiant Charger, maybe. But the company was busy imploding at the time and couldn't really be bothered.

berri

I much prefer the story I read once of a Dart Swinger that a magazine writer got from Dodge that had a prototype 440 in it instead of the usual 340.

When I was growing up in the Chicago area Mr. Norm's Grand Spalding Dodge was famous its commercials on WLS and WCFL radio and for stuffing huge engines and special accessories into Mopar cars. They even worked with the factory. I believe they could put hemi's into Darts as well!