Mystery car pix

fintail

You're welcome :shades:

I assume the car had an unfortunate history - my friend finally ran away from her shortly after. I remember she wanted a RX7 her brother was selling, but her parents didn't want to spend so much money. She'd literally yell and cry at them over the phone. I recall her previous cars were a Subaru she blew up and an Accord she rear ended someone with. 25 years old, some weird degree, living off her parents...can't end well. My friend got lucky and escaped.

andys120

It could have been good looking but IMO the proportions on it were messed up badly, the car looked too short and tall. Ditto the contemporary Eldo and Riviera.

Just another step on the long road to GM's bankruptcy.

lemko

Yeah, my Dad's Oldsmobile was a drop-dead gorgeous 1955 Ninety-Eight Starfire convertible, not a trucated, wheezy, underpowered, sloppily-contructed cariacature of a Toronado.

andys120

Only 2000 of these were sold>

texases

'72 Plymouth Scamp?

grahampeters

G'day

This is very strange, seeing so many of the US models that were then exported to Australia. This came to Australia, where it was assembled by Chrysler in Adelaide, as the Valiant Hardtop. Sold as a more prestigious car than the Valiant Charger (cannot recall what that was in the USA)

Not a lovely car to drive.

Cheers

Graham

berri

Let me guess, front end trouble like ball joints? Seemed to plague that vintage Mopar compact and intermediate models.

berri

drop-dead gorgeous 1955 Ninety-Eight Starfire convertible

I agree. Your dad must have had a few bucks!

sloppily-contructed cariacature of a Toronado

I always thought the first few years was the heyday for the Toronado, and felt they were gorgeous too.

Mr_Shiftright

cracking frames at the ball joint area, yes.

andys120

Yup, it's a Plymouth Valiant Scamp of which only 2000 were made according to Motorbase.com.

I must say I'm not sure what distinguished the Scamp from the contemporary Valiant. I've always thought it was merely a re-badged Dart Swinger of which many thousands were made. I'm sure one of you can enlighten me as to why it sold so poorly.

texases

According to this all '72 Valiants were 4 doors, if 2 doors then they were a Scamp:

andys120

Thanks for that info but considering how well 2-door Darts sold it hardly sheds any light on why the Scamp bombed.

texases

I think the Duster did pretty well for Plymouth, unlike the Demon for Dodge. So most 2 door Plymouth sporty compact buyers went for the Duster. Prior to this, I think a 2-door Valiant sedan (not hardtop) was available.

stickguy

my 2nd car in high school was a 74ish (maybe a 75?) Duster. 6 cyl, 3 speed stick. I liked that car, rust and all. My first car with a sliding sunroof! got me hooked.

texases

Mine was a '72 Duster 6/3 spd stick. Came with a 'Hurst' shift knob, but nothing could help that 198!

andys120

I think the Duster did pretty well for Plymouth, unlike the Demon for Dodge. So most 2 door Plymouth sporty compact buyers went for the Duster. Prior to this, I think a 2-door Valiant sedan (not hardtop) was available.

Now we have two mysteries wrapped into one. Why did Plymouth succeed with the Duster and fail w the Scamp while Dodge did poorly w the Demon and sold lots of Dart h/ts? :confuse:

jwilliams2

Yup, it's a Plymouth Valiant Scamp of which only 2000 were made according to Motorbase.com.

I'm not sure about those numbers. Here is a web site that claims over 49,000 Scamps were sold in 1972, which was an increase......Sounds more realistic to me....

http://www.valiant.org/chron.html

grahampeters

G'day

You got it in one. Scary, scary handling with lots of steering free play. Very quick in a straight line but you really did not want to turn corners, particularly off a freeway.

One of the strangest accidents I ever saw was a related Valiant Charger. These were very popular in Australia, typically fitted with a Hemi 6 or a 90degreee V8.

I was driving south along a dark desert highway (not Hotel California, but between Mildura and Ouyen in Victoria). Up ahead in the distance I could see some shimmering lights (no, no, not Hotel California)which resolved into a pair of headlights with driving spots between, These then drifted across my side of the road, where the lights rotated through 180 degrees. A few moments later, I came across an inverted Valiant Charger in the sand-dunes beside the road, essentially undamaged, all glass intact and minimal panel damage except a very scratched roof. A Turkish family crawled out of the window (quite a feat for the largish mother). A couple of trucks pulled up and with accumulated manpower, the car was back on its wheels and restarted.

Heavens knows what happened to them. Almost certainly dissuaded them from outback travel.

Cheers

Graham

Cheers

Graham

andys120

Thanks for that Jwilliams. It sez that in '74 alone 29, 634 Scamps were built ("a new low"). Looks like Motorbase is way off base on this one.

andys120

wgrafer

Well, since it's been sitting here a while with no takers, I'll give it a shot. Maybe the intimidation factor involves the varied Canadian models...

On left, 1960 Mercury Comet (or was it called a Meteor??), 1959 Ford, possibly a 1958 Ford, maybe an Anglia????

Cross street, 1960 Corvair, 1962 Chevrolet,, maybe a '63 Cadillac behind it.

On right, a 1953 Chevrolet 210, a 1954 Mercury (or whatever it was called in Canada - Meteor???), another import I'll call an Anglia/English Ford???

andys120

Great job Wgrafer. I'm not sure about some of these Canadian equivalents either.

On the left I think the car behind the '59 Ford is a MoPar ca. '58.

Good eye on the cross-street. I thought the car heading left might be a Pontiac (always popular in CDN) but now you mention it I can make out a Caddy fin.

To the right I think the car stopped at the cross street is an English Ford, probably a mid-late 50s Zephyr (not an Anglia). The car headed the other way could be a smaller Brit Ford but something about suggests a Fiat to me, perhaps a 1200.

andre1969

I don't know where that 2,000 unit figure came from, but the Scamp, which was introduced in 1971, sold 48,253 units that year, and 49,470 for 1972.

Plymouth had dropped the hardtop and convertible Valiants in 1967, to make more room for the Barracuda. That just left the 2- and 4-door Valiant sedans. The 2-door was a slow seller, and the Dart in general, thanks to having a hardtop, convertible, and a broader lineup in general, swamped the Valiant in sales.

For 1970 though, the 2-door Valiant sedan was dropped, and replaced with the Duster. It was probably in response to Ford's Maverick. Well, the Duster was a strong seller, and that prompted Dodge dealers to push for an equivalent model to sell. So, Dodge got the Demon, and to appease Plymouth dealers, they got the Scamp.

now in those days, Darts were on a longer 111" wheelbase, while Valiants were on a 108". However, both the Duster and Demon were on the 108", while the Scamp hardtop was on the longer 111". Technically the Duster and Scamp were Valiant models, but they tended to be marketed individually, to give Plymouth the illusion of having a broader lineup.

Well, the Demon never sold nearly as well as the Duster, and the Scamp never sold near as well as the Dart. FWIW, the Scamp and Dart hardtop, which was called Swinger, both base priced at the same $2528. However, there was a cheaper Swinger Special that came in at $2373.

My guess is that Plymouth Valiants appealed more to budget-minded buyers, and since the Duster was the cheapest model, it won out. Plus, since the hardtop Valiant was off the scene from 1967-70, that might have made it drop from people's minds. And, I wonder if the name "Scamp" might have had something to do with it? It's not the nicest sounding word in the world! I even remember my grandmother, years ago, commenting that it was sort of a vulgar sounding word. I know our local shock jock the Greaseman used to use a similar word to describe a woman's anatomy, but I don't think Grandmom listened to him!

andys120

If your Grandma thought "Scamp" sounded vulgar what did she think of of "Swinger"? Perhaps she didn't know that swingers were sexual libertines, involved in spouse swapping and other such activities.

fintail

Yeah, I think the car stopped near the Chevy is definitely a Zephyr/Zodiac. The oncoming foreigner reminds me of a BMC Farina, but hard to tell what it is.

Canada got proportionately a lot more British iron (or tin) than the US.

andys120

Canada got proportionately a lot more British iron (or tin) than the US.

Oh yes, the photo bears that out. English Fords were a rare sight below the 49th and Austin Farinas were unknown. BTW I think you're right about that one, a BMC product is a lot more likely on the streets of Nova Scotia than a Fiat and both would be similar from that angle.

If that photo had been shot in the USA at least there'd be at least one VW Bug in it.

andre1969

If your Grandma thought "Scamp" sounded vulgar what did she think of of "Swinger"? Perhaps she didn't know that swingers were sexual libertines, involved in spouse swapping and other such activities.

Well, according to my other Grandma, on my Mom's side of the family, Grandmom was a bit of a flirt at parties! :surprise: But, I don't think it went beyong playful, innocent flirting. And I think Grandmom was around 60 by the time they bought that '75 Swinger, so maybe she was too old to know what "Swinger" meant. I'm sure it was immersed enough in popular culture though. They watched "All in the Family", and there was an episode there that dealt with swingers, one played by Rue McClanahan. Excellent choice, considering her role in later years on the Golden Girls!

In the late 70's, Grandmom and Granddad (Mom's side again) bought a truck camper made by a company called "Skamper". I didn't know the secondary meaning of the word at the time, but when I think of it nowadays, I gotta admit the juvenile delinquent in me does snicker a bit.

fintail

It kind of has that look. If not a larger finned BMC, maybe something like an Austin A40.

Canada also got proportionately more Citroens than the US, via Quebec.

andys120

andre1969

Is that what they called the Fiat 500 or Abarth or whatever? As you can tell, I know nothing whatsoever about them. I saw one the other day though, in an old bad William Castle movie called "Strait Jacket", with Joan Crawford.

andys120

Is that what they called the Fiat 500 or Abarth or whatever?

It's mechanically identical to the Fiat 500 but it was not sold as such, nor was it made in Italy or by Fiat. Anyone?

mac24

As can be seen when the pic is blown up, the rear window doesn't actually slant in as it does in the Anglia, or in its bigger cousin the Consul Classic, and there are other differences too.







However, the vehicle on the other side does have the look of an Austin A40 about it, although I wouldn't swear that's what it is.

andys120

Oh, I never said it's an Anglia, that was someone else. I'm pretty well convinced it's some sort of British Ford but definitely not an Anglia for the reason you suggest. Interesting thing about your blowup though, it shows that the car beyond the '62 Chevy is not a Cadillac.

I'm pretty sure that's a '62 or '63 Pontiac (Laurentian ?/Parisienne? Rideau?)
after all. Ponchos were hugely popular in Canada for a very long time.

berri

Andre, I was a young guy when those all were out. I think you pretty much hit it on the head. A couple of other issues perhaps, my generation was loathe to copy the parents and the Valiant and Dart hardtops looked like old people cars back then compared to the newly introduced Duster (not sure I feel the same today!). Also, Dodge really wasn't that big of a car line back then despite Charger and Challenger. Plymouth was Mopar's volume line and large dealership home. How things changed a few decades later when trucks were making the money!

fintail

I think the car andy was theorizing would be a 100E Anglia, which predates the reverse slant (105E) model



But the car in the vintage pic is larger.

I have always thought those 105Es were cool, somehow.

grahampeters

G'day

The British car in the right lane is probably a 1961 Ford Consul Mk2 (over-riders on bumper and odd rear lights).

A friend at uni had one and it indirectly resulted in my mother buying my first car for me. It had previously disgraced itself by losing a wheel whilst travelling down a steep hill. I borrowed it to pick mum up from the airport and it rained so heavily that the vacuum wipers would not work unless you threw the car out of gear, revved the engine then backed off - novel! Mum promised to buy me a safe modern car if I promised never to drive a wreck again.

I've never told her that after dropping her at her hotel, the car further entertained as I tried to make a right turn on rain slicked roads. A full one and a quarter spin, ending up facing the direction I intended to travel. I was so horrified that you would not have got me back in the thing under any circumstance.

Cheers

Graham

mac24

And then there was the rare 107E Prefect, which looked the same as the 100E in your picture, but was fitted with the 105E OHV engine and four speed transmission in place of the 100E's side valve and three speed.
I believe it also had a unique rear axle and always was in deluxe trim.

mac24

The British car in the right lane is probably a 1961 Ford Consul Mk2 (over-riders on bumper and odd rear lights).

I think you might be right.



I didn't like the earlier ones but I liked those, especially the rare convertible models, and also the much later Consul/Granada as used in The Sweeney (anyone seen/remember that program?)

mac24

It's mechanically identical to the Fiat 500 but it was not sold as such, nor was it made in Italy or by Fiat. Anyone?

I first thought it might be a Puch 500, but it isn't a Steyr-Puch badge on the front.
Is it an NSU?

fintail

Looks good to me.

I know those Fords mainly through Matchbox cars - only one of all of them I have ever seen on the road was a 105E, so I can only guess.

fintail

Or maybe a SEAT?

mac24

Maybe, but 'andys120' said it was mechanically identical to the Fiat 500 and AFAIK Seat only made a 600.

andys120

Is it an NSU?

Yes and no. There were cars built under license by NSU that were Fiat-designed and branded/sold as NSU-Fiats starting well before WW II.
NSU-Fiat 500s manufactured before 1957 were based on the front-engine RWD Fiat 500 Topolino("Little Mouse").

In 1957 the brand name was changed to "Neckar" and it was about this time that they began making a version of the rear-engine Fiat Nuova Cinquecento("New 500") as Neckar 500s. Other Fiat and Autobianchi models were Built/sold under the Neckar name until the arrangement was discontinued and the Heilbron factory was closed. Around this time NSU Motorenwerke, based in Neckarsulm was bought by Volkswagen Group (1969)

mac24

Yes and no.

OK, I claim half a point then. :P

I must admit that I don't remember ever even hearing of a Neckar.

grahampeters

G'day

The Granada was quite stylish. You are right that it featured in The Sweeney and was sort of the early 70's executive car. A friend at uni in 1979 had one which someone had imported to Australia (never sold her) and it looked nice enough. NO recollection of its behaviour although we did go to the Drive in it and I seem to remember it being quick. I think I drove it once or twice but no lasting impressions.

Cheers

Graham

andys120

The Consul/Granada looks like a larger version of the Cortina used as a police car on Life on Mars, it's even the same color>



I can't help but be struck by how much more stylish British Fords of the '70s were than the frumpy Yank tanks we got.

magnette

The Sweeney still shows here on re-runs, and they actually used a Consul, which was the stripped version of the Granada for the first series shown, and then the Granada (by which time that was all there was, the Consul was only on sale for about two years) for series two. This is the Consul I believe - and it was a Consul GT if I recall correctly.

They hadn't used Consul as a model name since the early sixties, when it dropped from the line up in place of the Zephyr 4 - which was the MkIII. COnsul was also a range name - the first Cortinas were badged for a time as Consul Cortinas, as were the Classic and Classic Capri - I think even the first Corsairs were actually Consul Corsairs.

Sorry I haven't been here for weeks - at work we can't access your site now, as it appears to be barred - it always times out now if I try to access it using either Firefox or the dreaded Internet Explorer, but I couldn't get it at home here either on Firefox or Apple Safari for a while either - it is now working as my new apple machine is faster and more tolerant, but this site is certainly ore fragile than it used to be...

magnette

The series Life on Mars consciously imitated The Sweeney as a sort of spoof, and I'm sure that's why the car is so close, even if it is a Cortina III instead of a Consul/Granada.

magnette

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Sorry if I might have posted this some time before, although I don't think so - anyway, try the other cRS IN THE Bckground...

andys120

The blue car looks like a Triumph Herald or (more likely)Vitesse with a hardtop, or did they make a fixed roof version. :confuse:

There's a black car in the upper left that looks like a Cortina Mk II.

No clue on the rest of 'em.