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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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For Ford's sake, I'd hope not! I think Bill Ford is counting on that in fact.
Maybe in 5 years, if and when the Fusion has earned the kind of reputation the Accord has, we'll reconsider your post.
Well put. Ford might not even be around in 5 years as we know them now.
Something's gotta happen over there. Maybe spin off cars from trucks, dump the luxury line, sell Mazda, merge with a Euro player....whatever...but pretty soon it'll be.....
Paddles! Clear!
....if they continue with Bill Ford's 'vision'.
Myself, I want more content rather than HP/Torque. Give me standard stability control, rear back-up sensors/alarms/cameras, more safety features anyday..
Maybe in 5 years, if and when the Fusion has earned the kind of reputation the Accord has, we'll reconsider your post.
NEWS FLASH! The Fusion does "hang" with the Accord. The sooner you realize this the easier it will be on you..
The 3.0 Duratec is a Ford engine. This engine has a proven track record and is very reliable. It has been around for about 10 years now. I don't know if the 3.0 in the Mazda 6 is also VVT like the 3.0 in the Fusion/Milan. The 2.3 is developed by Mazda and is a very good 4cyl engine. Some say the 2.3 is "unrefined" when comparing to the 2.4 in the Accord. I recently took a drive in a friends 06 Accord LX 4cyl automatic, he punched the car and wow! There was sure a lot of racket coming from under that hood. Some call it "refined racket I guess"..
Maybe in 5 years, if and when the Fusion has earned the kind of reputation the Accord has, we'll reconsider your post.
Well put. Ford might not even be around in 5 years as we know them now.
You guys are just silly. If you are so biased, why bother spending time on on this comparison board? The only decision you have to make is probably Camry or Accord. :P
What is Accord's reputation worth to you? Since $3000+ is not enough, would a $5000 cost difference matter, $10,000?
Nope, didn't "settle" I chose. And I know my choice was the right one everytime I get into my Ford product. I know I didn't follow any lemmings... :shades:
Well, go to Edmunds' TMV webpage and put in YOUR zip code and see what the true market value for Accord and Fusion in your region. If 1K is also the case in your region then print it out and take it to your Honda dealer and see what they say.
If it's like my Camry 3.3 liter, you will get better mileage with premium which will offset the extra cost.
Nope, not really. For you maybe but definitely not for me.
Although the test drive proves that the Fusion is miles ahead of the prehistorical Taurus it is still AT LEAST half generation behind Accord and one generation behind Camry at the engine category. However, I've gotta say that the Fusion does "hang" with the Camcords as far as the interior goes.
BTW, how's your experience while shopping for your Fusion? Did you test drive any other cars in the class? Like Accord, Camry, Sonata, Altima and Mazda6? If you did, how do you like and dislike them?
At these prices, I'd consider the Fusion. Too bad they're late to the gate with hybrids in this model. Quite simply, they are not a leader in this segment. And again, after essentially giving away a Taurus stationwagon at only 65,000 miles, after multiple repairs, I vowed to never purchase a Ford again.
The Germans make the cars the most solidly. That's a given, I'm sure. And AWD is definitely the key, not withstanding being close to the same as Audi's Quattro, which may be the most amazing AWD I've ever encountered. And who wouldn't want 280 hp? I would.
Is $30,000 and 27 mpg highway too much? Then try the Accord, definitely. But reconsider what value is all about, because I see no other true option but the Passat with AWD.
Other thoughts are the Honda Accord, the Toyota Camry, the Mazda6, the Ford Fusion, and the Hyundai Sonata, in order of overall satisfaction.
I only have a minor bone or two to pick with that...
As far as the only model with AWD, how about the Subaru Legacy? well under 6 seconds to 60 MPH also. Smaller interior, yes, but it is another alternative with AWD.
Also, you mention that the car is solid, and I'll give you that. The VWs feel hewn from granite. Too bad that granite is all too likely to sit in the repair shop these days, as VWs reliability has been about as good as GMs stock trends over the last few years.
Yes, VWs are very well made cars that drive with impressive solidity. You know, German. But like other German cars, they tend to be a bit unreliable. It would be nice if the newest editions of the Passat and Jettas turn out to be reliable.
I wasn't saying you need a super speed demon, I'm saying there should be some sort of boundary. The Passat combines near-Audi luxury, near-Audi, if not all Audi AWD, and German build.
I'm not denying I like the Mazdaspeed. If it were up to me, I'd pick German, though.
As on reliability, I haven't had a German car that was ever any real bit unreliable, and a few Mazdas that have been.
Not that there aren't pluses. With Ford down, so are prices. But let's be realistic. There are few things that aren't quite.....average. And there are some things that are not desirable, like American building.
It's good, but it's bad. It's great, but it's terrible. What isn't just average about it?
Plus, to quote Family Feud, "Survey Says" VW reliability is poor relative to the other makes.
Sometimes when evaluating things you must ask yourself the question "is it just me?" and "Is my impression contrary to all popular knowledge?". Some people will say it is cold in the Carribean! You never know until you ask the question. Some people think they can drive in the snow, until they slide into a guard rail.
In this case your opinion goes against all and every magazine review and about 98% of all consumer reviews (many of which have been posted on this board). The Edmunds comparo with the Fusion listed it as the "driver's car" among the group and put steering above the Accord. Also remember that the Fusion is based on the Mazda6. This car benchmarked BMW for handling and has won numerous praise as the best handling midsive car short of a 3-Series. In fact, another Mazda6 based vehicle, the CX-7, just took home first place in a three way comparo here at Edmunds and that review too mentioned the Mazda's handling. In Fact on this board people have described the Mazda's handling as precognative and having a psychic ability to know exactly where you want to put the car. The Fusion isn't that far off. I won a Mazda6, without shame or event a moment of thinking "maybe I should have got an Camcord". Matter of fact driving the Mazda for the last two trouble free years has made me even more pleased that I made a great decision. With that, I am going to go drive the Mazda at... agressive speeds through the curvy roads on my way to the laundromat. Good night.
We had a previous generation Camry SE V6, and a current gen Honda Accord V6, and shifted to two Subaru Legacys mainly because of the numb steering of the boat-like Camcord twins. (The Accord is better, but not by much.) From what you say, and from what 99.9% of all road testers say, I'd have to agree that the Mazda6, and, by extension, the Ford Fusion, are even better than the Subarus in the steering feel/handling department. So I can't see how anyone can say that the Fusion has poor steering feel. That's the least of Bill Ford's problems!
Also, I stated that in my review the engine and driving dynamics would be the deal break for ME. That's why everyone should test drive the car they want to buy before jumping on the media bandwagon. The perfect car for ME and the media is probably not the one for you. It is very frustrating to see many people acting like they know the car inside and out but at the end all they know is what the media have told them. I look at all the car mags and reviews as good references but ultimately my own experience reigns supreme (for me).
PS. Saying that Mazdas6's handling is next best to 3-series is an overstatement. Can't argue that it is the best handling midsize sedan but comparing to 3er? I can name at least 2 other cars in between.
Me too. Why go down that road again when there are SO MANY better alternatives? Spare yourself the grief.
So after owning 2 Fords and being disappointed in both, my bias toward Honda is based on real experiences. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice....never will be a third.
Let that forever put to rest the myth that the legendary Camry/Accord resale value pays you back. It simply doesn't.
Plus, to quote Family Feud, "Survey Says" VW reliability is poor relative to the other makes.
Yes and no. Yes, German dealerships are terrible, but so are all car salesmen, and in the end people should learn how badly you get ripped off by those people. And no, quoting Family Feud is not the answer.....but whatever.
VWs are as reliable as pencils, and not surprisingly, so are Audis. That's certainly the case wherever I've been, and I'm sorry if you've experienced different, but who's to mark me if they really haven't? And Honda and Toyota, although quite reliable, just aren't as well-made by any means, and I'm signed on that.
Overall, I wouldn't consider it.....The Mazdaspeed6, however......
The Mazdaspeed6 is quite a jewel. Few Japanese cars these days break 270 hp for some reason, and as I drove it a few weeks ago I couldn't help but see that it was very fast. But in between the speed, there's luxury, and I wasn't totally impressed by that. This is where the Passat is key, with near-Audi interior.
Don't get me wrong, the Passat is pricier than the Mazdaspeed, but I'm sure it's worth it.
Just about EVERY CR and JD Power report published within the past five years, that's who. They all list VW/Audi among the lowest in reliability scores.
That MazdaSpeed6 is looking better every day, although the 93 octane fuel requirement might hurt a little bit.
I'm targeting cars in $20,000 - $25,000 price range. And, that makes Passat almost impossible. Still, I'll check the Passat.
So after owning 2 Fords and being disappointed in both, my bias toward Honda is based on real experiences. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice....never will be a third"
I guess the same can go for me for Honda.. I paid too much for a perceived quality/reliability/resale advantage.. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... never a second.. :shades:
Normal?? it will easily match your Passat in the twisties. The Fusion/Milan are known for its standout styling. Broken down after two months?? What? Do you get out and read other forums/chats around the net?? The Fusion/Milan are proving to be quiet reliable and well built vehicles. I average 27.4 MPG in my v6 Fusion.. Everything you say goes against the grain of what reviewers/owners say about the quality/fit/finish of the Fusion/Milan.
I see you prefer German vehicles. I don't have to remind you that VW reliability is LOWER than Ford. I don't have to remind you that the Jetta and Passat don't have that great of a track record for reliability. Also, the cost of maintaining both Jetta and Passat are very spendy. They require synthetic oil at every change.. OUCH!
I like the looks of the Passat but at $30,000+ there are many other sedans I would choose over it. In fact I almost chose a Jetta over my Fusion. I am so glad I didn't now.. :shades:
Asian: Average driving dynamics/Good reliability
Domestic: Below average driving dynamics/Average reliability
European: Good driving dynamics/Below average reliability
So, pick your poison...
That's given that you have drived those cars before, and you have right?
That seems to be true for the new Jetta, as well. It has been out for two years now and I have not read of a lot of problems. Just imagine if both the new Fusion/Milan and Jetta prove to be more reliable than the new Camry :surprise: .
The 3.5L in the Avalon, RAV, Camry, ES, RX is a derivation of the 4.0L in the 4Runner, Tacoma, Tundra and FJ. By doing this Toyota sent more than $1 Billion to the bottom line last year, and this year, and next year, and.........
automobile.com article about Bodine/Toyota 3.5L engines