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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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I've done this exercise in order to skim off the false posters as well as the chronic haters and the chronic lovers.
Take the top 10% of reviews out of the mix, 17 reviews.
Take the bottom 10% out of the mix, 17 reviews.
Average the remaining 137 reviews.... it happens to be 9.1
This is the heart of the buying public. Then do it for all the others.
If it doesnt' look so good for the Camry then just who is buying all these vehicles from a sold out plant? And why do they need to add 200,000 units next year from the Subie plant? What's going on here?
I checked the MPG posting here at Edmunds and found out that V6 Accords are getting more like 32 mpg highway.
My bad.
How can you say this? Toyota sells more Camrys each year than they did the year before. Every other car maker would love to be "not looking so good". The Camry is not my type of car, but it seems to be the car most people want. And they are willing to pay a lot more to drive one. The buying public speaks loudest with their money. Not with some review on a forum.
I average 33mpg on the highway in my V6 Accord. 24mpg around town.
But I think that what car companies would love to do is to give good performance with great economy- and when gasoline soars to $5/gallon over the next 5 years (which is what many are predicting), economy and reasonable performance which come to the forefront- and then the present buyers of high performance V6 engines will incur dramatic extra depreciation- just like the owners of the big SUV's did over the past 2 years. I don't feel sorry for them at all.
Today's V6s deliver the kind of mileage #'s the I4s of yesterday did. And the power on demand is a beautiful thing.
You only live once. Enjoy the ride.
1 Review for Fusion. 28 for the Sonata.
Oh, yeah--clearly Toyota is the one doing something wrong.
Just because the car is going to carry my kids doesn't mean it has to be boring as heck. I still have a pulse, I still like something that feels alive. It can't break the bank either, either in purchase price, maintenance costs, or gas. It has to be safe and contrary to most here, I would put more emphasis on avoiding an accident than what 16 airbags will deploy as I get run over by a wayward SUV.
I also realize I am not a typical buyer and as an auto enthusiast my needs and and desires are different than mainstream appliance shoppers. Thankfully, there are enough options.
I also like a smooth ride, but I will compromise some softness in ride, for a little handling.
As far as safety goes, until these cars have roll-cages, three point harnesses, and we wear helmets while we drive (nascar kind of safety), these cars will be no match for a suburban or 18 wheeler coming at us. Not many people are willing to pay, or can afford that kind of safety. So we just have to be careful out there, and hope for the best.
That's the funnest line I've read for a long time
You made me so mad. A minute ago I was happy that I was getting 34 mpg in my 4-cy Accord! You have no right getting 33 mpg in your V-6! :P
I forgot who, but I was having a debate with someone that claims a 5.9 second time on an Accord. They cited Car And Driver so I decided to do a little research on that website. What I found was that C&D reported same acceleration times of a Honda Accord coupe in a test they performed in 2003 and of a 298 hp Infiniti G35 in a test done in 2005. It is likely that one car is much quicker than the other. Like I said before I would love to see these two cars drag. My money would be on the G35.
Yes, I do think C&D is biased towards Honda and BMW. It is very evident when you read a BMW review. For example most automotive publications would state flaws they found when reviewing a car no matter how good the car was. All C&D talked about in their latest reviw of the 335i was how wonderful it is. The 335i is a good car, however it is very biased when the reviewer only mentions the pros and neglects to mention anything negative about the car. And don't tell me that the 335i is the perfect car, or without flaws because I could think of a few.
Hey, these guys hit the walls at 150mph, and walk away. That's safety.
He took the top 10% off as well...
I don't think that's as much of a shock to anyone anymore, it's only just a matter of time before this happens.
...and then the present buyers of high performance V6 engines will incur dramatic extra depreciation- just like the owners of the big SUV's did over the past 2 years.
Doubt it, since V6's in some sedans get as good or better mileage than 4-cyls from just a few years ago, and with trannys getting more gears, and engines getting better technology (such as VVT, displacement-on-demand, and other fuel saving devices), the V6 will only become MORE valuable, when MORE people drop their SUVs and need an efficient people/cargo hauler with more power than what a 4-cyl offers.
IMO, I don't plan on buying another sedan WITHOUT a V6, no matter how high gas prices go. That is, unless a 4-cyl can magically match the HP, torque, smoothness, and effortless pulling power of a V6, WITHOUT the use of a turbo (which I've had problems with in the past), or those dreaded CVT transmissions (yuck!)
And what would you cite as a negative. The price or the fact it can't haul 8 people?
The effect of fuel prices depends on how much fuel is used. With a 4 mile commute that is usually done by bicycle in warmer months, there is some buffer on gas prices, filling up about every 3 weeks.
On the other hand, commuting across Grand Rapids to Lansing every day might make someone look at a more fuel efficient method of transportation.
Uh...NO!!!
Example:
10 scores like this: 10, 7, 5, 5, 5, 4, 3, 3, 2, 1
Without the top and bottom 10% off average: 4.5
With the top and bottom 10% off average: 4.25
As you can see in this case the score actually dropped when you take off the top and bottom 10% so your assessment is WRONG.
Yes, but what about possible better handling in the 4 cyl due to less weight up in front? Taking a corner faster does more to make me feel "alive" than accelerating straight ahead to 60 mph 1 sec faster.
Very valid point, I totally agree.
The number of cylinders overall has very little to do with my purchase decision. The last vehicle my household purchased was a 2.5 litre flat four, where as the vehicle it replaced was a 2.5 litre V6. I actually don't care about displacement so much either (2.5 isn't some magic number).
There is a subjective level to acceleration, people like it to feel fast, either by engine noise or by the kick in the pants, or by visual stimulus. I think people have a sense of fast or slow (and it varies between people... does this feel fast to you?) and as long as the car they are driving doesn't feel subjectively slow to them, they feel like it is quick enough.
When I test drive a car, one thing I want to see is how it does under full throttle acceleration. Because when I own the car I will not be afraid to drive it that way, when I want maximum acceleration.
This is one of the places I think the General actually has an edge. Pushrods have a great deal of torque low down. Thats why 0-35 or so feels so quick on those cars.
Yes - yes. Acclamation.
Most driver's are afraid to push the car's revs up to the redline, especially when the car's screaming it's heart out up there. But a VTEC Accord shines at 6-7000 rpms, and can really fly.
But who drives like that? Me sometimes. Don't you?
If the engine isn't at operating temperature, or your redline is BELOW 6K RPM, then sure. Otherwise, it's perfectly fine to rev it past 6K once in a while. Honda or not.
I've hit redline on every single car I've owned, sometimes as often as once/week, and I've NEVER had any engine problems. My first car was an '89 Chevy S10 with the 4.3 L V6. I bought it used with 53K miles on it, and revved that thing often, especially on the highway, and the engine was still perfect at 150K miles, when the body rusted out so bad that I had to get rid of it.
Some manufacturers are even RECOMMENDING that the engine be revved to redline every so often during break-in. I guess it helps with seal tolerances, or something like that.
Pics of the '07 Altima interior:
I'm not suggesting one drive everywhere at redline all day, but the time spent at the top of the tach on an acceleration run won't hurt anything.
Thats what redline is for (and even that is pessimistic).
If you don't like to rev, I would definitely suggest something with pushrods, since you aren't going to experience what a multivalve overhead cam engine has to offer.
I think the exterior of the new Altima looks really sharp as well.
Looking forward to seeing it in person.
I, too, believe it is best to NOT run an engine hard until it is fully warmed. That may be the key.
Sat Radio option? Hmmm.
The AUX input in the front of the dash is a little 'basic' I'd say. In other vehicles it's in the center console or the front console out of sight.
No Bluetooth in this trim?
I would like to see the Altima compared to the Aura and Camry V6.
I know my "fancy
But, I have never liked the exterior styling of the Altima, with its gigantic, heavy looking, rear bumper. Scrunching the taillights up to the top in the new version makes it look even worse to me. From pictures, it also looks like you will see this large lailight housing from the side...that seems like it will look pretty strange.
I had not problems with it, took about 3 minutes to figure the basics.