Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

bobw3

It'll take many years for Ford to get past hard feelings from the damage done by their previous clunkers.

This is an example of the useless generalizations that clutter this forum. If you look around on these posts, you'll finds lots of satisfied Ford owners (and satisfied GM, Honda, Toyota, etc owners too). To say that every car made by any company is junk is more of a testament of a poster's lack of knowledge/intelligence than a manufacturer's product. That holds true to overgeneralization on any topic.

kdshapiro

That may be what you say. But until Ford produces a car that rivals the competition (IMO) I won't buy one. In these days of the "global economy" the days of "buying American" just because for me are over. Ford sells overseas, the same way Honda sells in America.

Having looked at the Fusion I still don't believe it has the fit and finish of the Accord. In my eyes, pay more get more. AWD might be a draw, but it's not enough. It doesn't matter if my perception is not "reality", with $20K and more at stake, I don't feel like gambling.

bobw3

I'm not trying to say that all Ford products are the best, but just not that everything they produce is total junk.

What does your definition of "rivals the competition" really mean.

You mention that the Fusion doesn't have the same fit and finish as the Accord, and that's a fair opinion. So if you're going to say that you prefer the Accord to the Fusion because of its better fit and finish then great because you've specifically stated why.

But that's different then someone posting that they'll never buy a domestic car because they all stink...that's just worthless ranting.

akirby

Ford is producing a car that "rivals" the competition already. If you don't like it for whatever reason then that's a subjective opinion. I agree the Fusion has a more utilitarian dash than the Accord but I like it anyway. Everyone has different preferences and one isn't more correct than the other.

xfilerguy

It took Hyundai less than 5 years to go from joke to serious contender....no reason to think Ford can't turn around their reputation in a similar amount of time. All they have to do is up the warranty (which is what GM did).

Provide a bumper-to-bumper 5 year waranty, 10 year powertrain warranty, and people will BELIEVE you have faith in the vehicles you sell. Throw in complementary rental car service while your vehicle is in the shop (ala Lexus, Infiniti, etc) and you'll get the American public back into the showrooms. These might be costly propositions, but it might mean that you don't have to offer 1000 rebate on the cars.

Make me in charge of Ford and i'd copy Toyota's lineup vehicle for vehicle. They have a small car in the Yaris that Ford could easily fight with a model imported from Europe (like the old Ford Ka). Make the Fusion a bit bigger and more powerful to be a true Camry fighter, make the 500 more refined and stylish to be an Avalon fighter, overhaul the Focus to make it more stylish in the vein of Civic and Corolla. Create a "funky" car or two to go against the Honda Element, Toyota Matrix, and the Scions. Don't give up on the minivan fight....just build a vehicle like the Sienna and the Odyssey and you'll hold your own in the market.

The Edge is the stupidest idea ever...who would buy it when it doesn't have a 3rd row? People want flexibility...GM's new crossovers hit the sweet spot in performace, utility, and value, much moreso than Edge.

GM has a hit with their roadsters Sky and Solstice....why not market a small roadster from Ford? Base it on the Miata, call it a Probe, and make it a limited-edition car like the GT. In this game, image is everything. Make people think of Ford as the poor man's BMW -- not a cheaper GM car. Mazda has done a great job of being a performance-oriented brand, even though their cars are not that different than Fords.

backy

Make me in charge of Ford and i'd copy Toyota's lineup vehicle for vehicle.

Bad idea. Toyota already "does Toyota" better than anyone else does, or can do. To succeed, Ford has to find other ways to attack the market. And I think they are doing that in many ways. The Mustang is unique right now in the market--GM and DC are trying to get into that game. The Fusion has styling and AWD that differentiate it from much of the mid-sized market. The Freestyle is somewhat unique--part minivan, part SUV. The Fairlane has standout "retro" styling. And so on.

The Fusion doesn't need to be any bigger. It probably needs more power, which it is getting, just to keep up with competitors like the Camry in appearences, not because it doesn't move fast enough with the V6 it has.

waygrabow

As I look out my window, I can't see the neighbor's home across the street because we are in a blizzard here in Colorado. I was sent home early from work due the the deteriorating weather conditions, 1-2 feet of snow expected. However, my Mazdaspeed 6 had little problem getting me home. Any car without AWD would not have made it; at times plowing snow through a drift with all wheels spinning. The automatic climate control system did a good enough job that I didn't need to use the windshield wipers. I passed a Lexus SUV in the ditch near my home. AWD and the associated ESC, anti-lock brakes, traction control and such are why I bought this car. Of course 270 hp and a price under $23K were also nice. Yes, I put all-season tires on it. Hope you all enjoy your cars as much as I do mine.

neteng101

Ford is producing a car that "rivals" the competition already. If you don't like it for whatever reason then that's a subjective opinion.

How about we look at the numbers, YTD sales...

Fusion - 130k
Accord - 334k
Camry - 409k

A car that rivals the competition as you say? How come a car that "rivals" the competition, is cheaper than the competition, isn't being bought by more people? The only thing subjective is your notion that Ford produces something that "rivals" the competition - the numbers don't support your claim. :P

akirby

Sales figures are simply a measure of which cars are most popular. Don't forget that the Taurus outsold the Camry and Accord at one time.

Using that logic the F150 must be twice as good as the Camry since they sell 900K every year.

bobw3

Exactly, so I guess they're saying when the Taurus outsold Camry/Accord it meant that the Taurus was a better vehicle. There are billions of McD hambugers sold too, so that must mean they're the best burger out there!

robbieg

Also by dumping cars to the rental car companies Ford, GM and DC are eliminating some of their new car customers. A person that buys a year old Impala would likely buy a new Impala if he is she were not able to buy the very same Impala used for $14,000. This does not affect Honda or Toyota because a person who buys a used Impala would never buy a new Accord or Camry.

mz6greyghost

Did you even BOTHER to read post #10163? Let me sum it up for you... Ford is PURPOSELY cutting back on production to adjust to their smaller market-share, improve quality, and to not dump their excess inventory into rental fleets.

AFAIC, YTD sales tells me NOTHING about how a product can "rival" the competition, it just tells me that people are unwilling, or even scared, to try out a Ford-badged product and actually like it, even wanting to buy it (oh no!)

mz6greyghost

I'm glad you at least put all-seasons on the MS6. Imagine if it had dedicated snow tires on it...

Being in Upstate NY, I've driven through a few snowstorms myself, and yes, AWD does help, but my Mazda6 with snow tires gets me where I need to, even through roads with deep-rutted snow and ice and zero visibility. Through winter storms and lake-effect snow dumping snow one FOOT at a time, I've never gotten stuck in my M6, not once.

AWD is definitely a benefit, but FWD and even RWD can work just as well with the right set of tires.

imidazol97

> a year old Impala would likely buy a new Impala if he is she were not able to buy the very same Impala used for $14,000.

I'm not sure that value and comparing someone who would buy an Impala LT 3.9 at the used car store for Hertz; more likely a minimally equipped model is what they have. The used price probably isn't discounted down that much. I don't accept your tenet.

On the other hand if you're saying that Impala on the used market isn't going to attract the Accord or Camry buyer, of course not. They're going to buy that used Accord at the Hertz sale or they're going to buy that used Camry at the Hertz lot next to Dayton International Airport!!! The Accord and Camry are in the fleets and they have to sell them the same as they do any other car.

elroy5

Provide a bumper-to-bumper 5 year waranty, 10 year powertrain warranty, and people will BELIEVE you have faith in the vehicles you sell. Throw in complementary rental car service while your vehicle is in the shop (ala Lexus, Infiniti, etc) and you'll get the American public back into the showrooms. These might be costly propositions, but it might mean that you don't have to offer 1000 rebate on the cars.

The problem with this idea is Ford will have no money left for R&D which is what is needed most.

Make me in charge of Ford and i'd copy Toyota's lineup vehicle for vehicle. They have a small car in the Yaris that Ford could easily fight with a model imported from Europe (like the old Ford Ka). Make the Fusion a bit bigger and more powerful to be a true Camry fighter, make the 500 more refined and stylish to be an Avalon fighter, overhaul the Focus to make it more stylish in the vein of Civic and Corolla. Create a "funky" car or two to go against the Honda Element, Toyota Matrix, and the Scions. Don't give up on the minivan fight....just build a vehicle like the Sienna and the Odyssey and you'll hold your own in the market.

For Ford to make cars that truly compete with these Asian cars, it would again come only with much R&D and refinement. Easier said than done. Ford GM and DC seem to think it is more important to pay the company figureheads millions of dollars, instead of the people who design the cars (engineers). Will they ever figure it out, who knows.

waygrabow

Living in upstate NY, I would guess that you are almost an authority on driving in deep snow. I was stationed at Fort Drum, north of Watertown, and had dedicated snow tires at that time (on a fwd car). The difference here is that my home is at an elevation 1600 feet higher than my workplace. AWD won't help stop the car, but it does help when you are going uphill in fresh, deep snow while having to stop for traffic signals. A set of Blizzaks would be a further improvement but would entail a seasonal tire switch. With the stock summer tires I would have been in trouble.

ontop

Way to take positive, strong endorsement sales numbers for a CamCord and put a Ford filter on it. The market speaks. People buying CamCords aren't stupid Stepford-like lemmings buying what they're told to buy because of a sign out front. There are probably a heck of a lot more Ford dealerships out there than Toyota/Honda. Regardless, CamCord buries the Fusion in sales. And it'll get worse for the competition when the nextgen Accord debuts next fall.

Ford has its hands full. Sure the Fusion is a decent car, but it hasn't pierced the armor of the Camcord the way Fordies would have hoped - too much fantastic competition out there.

m1miata

Where are they selling a retro looking Fairlane? I'd like to see one. The Fairlane 500 RWD with a V8.
-Loren

backy

Maybe I have the name wrong, but I saw a story in a car mag a few weeks ago on Ford's new wagon that had two doors on one side and one on the other. :surprise: It had what I consider to be a "retro" interior, more like a car from the '50s in many respects. I don't think it's for sale yet but will be soon.

redsfan1

I am having a hard time deciding between these 3 midsize sedans. I am looking to buy before the New Year. I have looked at the Mazda 6 Sedan and can get a 6 cylinder for around 18,000 brand new since its an 06 model. Gas mileage though is not to hot in this car, around 20/27. That seems pretty drive. I am also drawn to the new 07 toyota camry & possibly a honda accord. Camry I would go with a 4 cylinder not sure about the Accord. I rode in a 4 and 6 and it seemed pretty similar. Did anyone else have trouble deciding. If you have one of the cars below, please share your thoughts? Did you make the right decision. THanks for your help!!!

m1miata

That's a CUV and not a real Fairlane. The Fairlane was a sedan one class above the Falcon. They just throw old names around these days, like a Malibu is anything like a '68 real car.

-Loren

m1miata

While the Mazda6 has not been too good in initial quality scores from JD Powers, in most every other respect, one with a V6 for that price is a give-away. I would buy the Mazda. It would be the sporty and fun one to drive. If you are looking for economy, then go Accord or Camry. Gas will be expensive once again in '07 -- higher prices are coming. That said, it depends on how much money you want to devote to your car. If you enjoy the drive, the Mazda is a drivers car, and a V6 is preferred compared to a 4 cylinder by most people. I, for one, am so tired of four cylinders, I am considering a V8 or a V6 again as a second car, or perhaps a main ride.
Don't believe I have ever seen a Mazda6 V6 for that price = wow!
-Loren

falcon65

In addition to these 3, I looked at the Ford Fusion, Nissan Altima, and Chevy Malibu. I bought a Honda EX V6 because I got a great deal and because my Honda dealer has a great service department. The Chevy/Toyota dealer would not deal and their service dept. is a joke. I thought the Chevy and Ford were OK, but not up to Honda quality. Toyota seems to be having a problem with automatic transmissions in the 07. The Mazda 6 is a nice car, handles well, is close to Honda and Toyota in workmanship, but the V6 is no match for a Honda V6. The Honda V6 reminds me of the small block Chevys I owned in 60's and 70's - it screams! I've owned 2 Mazda Miatas and both were good cars, but lacked Honda quality.

I have a Ford truck - trust me Quality is not Job #1 at Ford. The service dept. at my local Ford dealer is also suspect; therefore, the Fusion would have to be better than the Honda. I didn't drive the Altima because my wife didn't care for the styling. Furthermore, Nissan is in bed with Renault. I won't drink French wine because it comes from France!

Bottom line - this is my wife's car and she loves Hondas. This is her 5th Accord in the last 21 years. As I mentioned above, the Honda service dept. is great, and they treat their customers like royalty.

kdhspyder

There is another side to this and the Corolla is a prime example.

Fixed costs vs Variable costs.

In any manufactured product there are classes of costs:
Fixed costs
Variable costs
SG&A Costs
.. Selling
.. General
.. Administrative

If you build a plant for $600 Million and produce zero vehicles you still have to amortize this investment and to acount for the developmental costs to create the vehicle, say $1 Billion. Then you have the Management team ( HQ ) that have to be paid their salaries whether the vehicle sells or not. Real Estate taxes and assessments have to be paid locally, plus sometimes there are fixed Legacy Costs as well.

So far you haven't built or sold one vehicle yet... These costs are Fixed.

Then you have to build a vehicle with steel, aluminum, glass, rubber, plastics, etc, etc; variable Material costs.
Then there's labor which depends on many factors but it generally increases in toto with the number of vehicles you make;
Then there is wear and tear on the building plus upkeep on it.

Selling, General & Administrative costs are only assessed when a vehicle is shipped; Advertising, transportation and dealer holdback fall into this category. There are lots more.

Round numbers, if a car maker can make 5% on a $20,000 vehicle that would be a good job. The single most important cost group in all of the above is the Fixed cost group. With over $1.6 Billion in fixed costs if you only make 1 vehicle you're dead. If you make 10000 vehicles your fixed costs are $160,000 per vehicle; you're dead. If you sell 100,000 vehicle your FC are $16,000 per vehicle; better but you're still in bancruptcy because you still have to add labor, materials and SG&A costs. If you can ship 300,000 vehicles now your FC are down to a semi-managable $5000 / vehicle.

Materials, transportation, selling, administrative costs for all manufacturers are about the same.

Labor and efficiency are key controllable costs. Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, BMW and MB find the labor costs here lower than at home. GM/F/DC find the labor costs outside the US to be lower. Say the labor costs end up being a wash except for unionized plants in the US. Efficiency then is key here. If it takes 3 hrs vs 2 hrs to make one vehicle vs another then the labor costs on the former are 50% higher. Let's call this a wash also now.

So the variable costs and SG&A costs are approximately the same for all $20000 vehicles - with the same equipment. It comes back to Fixed Costs.

Sell 100,000 units annually of a vehicle and it'll take you 5-6 yrs to come to a good managable figure per vehicle on the FC amortization.

However sell 350,000 vehicles annually ( Corolla, Accord, Camry, Impala, Malibu ) and you can amortize your investment in 2-3 years. After that the $3000-$4000 you have 'budgeted' toward fixed costs goes directly to the bottom line ( to be invested in future vehicles ). But if you can ship some of your vehicles at this point to a leasing company ( fleet ) saving a lot of the SGA Costs and using part of the profits from the fully-amortized Fixed Costs then you can offer a leasing company a $20000 vehicle for say $15000 and still come out ahead.

The problem of course is if you have to do this from year one when you are still working to meet the 600,000 unit 'amortization bogey' by year 5. If you can only sell 80,000 units but you are instructed to ship 120,000 units just to meet budget those 40,000 units will just sit ( see Chrysler situaiton now ) or the rental fleets will get flooded. To make matters worse when supply exceeds demand the price drops which all the purchasing managers at Hertz, Avis know so when they see one model floundering they drop their buy price. A vehicle that could be sold at a profit to a fleet for $15000 now in the fire sale goes for $13000.

The summary is that fleet sales can be a profitable way to keep a fully amortized line running well into it's 6th year ( Corolla ) or it can be a crutch and a losing proposition for a new vehicle that doesn't sell well just to make budget so that the Fixed Costs can be covered.

As much fun was made of the Taurus it was perfectly placed for what it was intended to do. The plant/lines were fully amortized with equipment that had been perfected back in the 1800's so the Fixed Costs were negligible; there were almost no SG&A Expenses so it was only Material, Labor and Plant upkeep as Variable Costs that had to be budgeted. At 120K units a year could carry a lot of Legacy Costs even if it sold at $10000-$12000 to the fleets.

Disclaimer: I have no specific knowledge of what the actual costs might be but was using approximate numbes just for illustrating the weight of the Fixed Costs.

mz6greyghost

I agree completely with m1miata. Unlike the appliances you mentioned, the Mazda6 is indeed the drivers car of the bunch. After 2 1/2 years and over 40K miles, I still smile when I approach my car for the morning commute. The price is great for a '06 with V6, and the fuel economy isn't bad at all.

I drive about 50 miles/day, mostly highway, and my V6 with manual averages 26 MPG, and I've gotten as high as 29 MPG. This is much better than my old Grand Am with 4-cyl and slushbox, where I was lucky to get 24 MPG with miserable get-up-and-go to boot.

As far as reliability is concerned, the only issue I've had with my 6 was a CEL due to a bad gas cap, replaced under warranty. Otherwise, it's been as reliable as ANY CamCord out there.

ggesq

"Unlike the appliances you mentioned, the Mazda6 is indeed the drivers car of the bunch."

I'm assuming the 6 you have in your stable is the Mazdaspeed 6 w/ AWD and 6sp manual tranny?

Otherwise, we're comparing a bunch of FWD cars and the performance distinctions are too close to call IMHO.

targettuning

I noticed you did not mention having looked at the Hyundai Sonata, why not? In many peoples opinion, including mine, it rivals any of the cars you already checked out in most if not all areas e.g. size, interior space,handling,performance, quality, and fuel economy although some will dispute that. It exceeds all with the best warranty. Have a look.

bobw3

Did you already test drive all three? If not, then you should do it and have whoever else will be driving the car give it a good test drive. People have different preferences on seats, contols, dash layout, etc. And makde sure you test drive the 4cyl if that's what you're thinking about buying. They're all good cars, with the Mazda being more sporty. What are you looking to replace? How will you use the car? For how many passengers?

mz6greyghost

I'm assuming the 6 you have in your stable is the Mazdaspeed 6 w/ AWD and 6sp manual tranny?

Otherwise, we're comparing a bunch of FWD cars and the performance distinctions are too close to call IMHO.

I love how people look at a set of performance numbers and think these cars are basically the same, without even stepping foot into them and actually DRIVING them.

Yes, my Mazda6S is FWD. Yes, it's not the quickest from 0-60. But with both the Mazda6 and MS6, I actually feel in control of the car. I can feel exactly what both the car and the road is doing. IMO, the handling is second to none.

I've driven the competiton, and the only thing that comes close is the prev-gen Altima, but the torque-steer in the V6 was terrible, the ride was a little floaty in corners, and it felt heavier than the 6. The Accord was even more floaty, the power was nice, but the ride/handling wasn't. The Camry was a joke, feeling more like a Buick than even the Lucerne did, more of an appliance than a drivers car.

It may be MHO, but I felt more connected with the 6. The V6 with manual has plenty of power, the brakes were fantastic, the steering is nicely weighted, and not as light as the competition, and taking an apex in the 6 is as close to a sports car as a $20K 4-door sedan can get.

The MS6 was all that and much more, with the turbo 4-cyl and AWD working well together. I'd have bought one if they were out in '04, but I'm very happy with my 6S as it is.

I personally can't wait for the '08 Mazda6. If the interior quality improves, and it gets the 3.5L V6 with 260+ HP and a 6-speed manual, Mazda will retain yet another customer.

ggesq

"I love how people look at a set of performance numbers and think these cars are basically the same, without even stepping foot into them and actually DRIVING them."

What makes you think I haven't driven any of the aforementioned vehicles? When I was in the market, I test drove everything under the sun. Ended up w/ a TL.

I'm glad you inserted "IMO" and "MHO." The Accord and Camry might be appliances to you but not to others.

jimmy81

I noticed you did not mention having looked at the Hyundai Sonata, why not?

Maybe because they didn't feel good about buying a Hyundai. People are closely connected to their cars. Its like choosing your girlfriend for the next 4-5 years. The car is more than just features thrown together. Its the total package and Honda knows how to bring it all together to make their owners feel comfortable with their purchase.

cajuncycler

I've had my 2006 Sonata since June. Just turned over 3000 miles and I have never regretted for one minute buying it. I saved a load of money over a Toyota or Honda, have excellent performance, ride, the service dept. at my dealer is great. Just had an oil change done @ $30. You guys can argue about your Fords, Chevys, Hondas, Mazdas and Toyotas all day and I still think I got the best buy of the bunch.

targettuning

Maybe so, but that isn't a very good excuse for not even driving or at least looking at it. How does one "just not feel good" about something without giving it a chance? Previous conceptions about Hyundai based on the 90's are now misconceptions. I am a first time Honda buyer (2006 Civic EX sedan)and I am not in the least bit happy about my purchase and I "felt good" about buying a Honda given all the great experiences I had read about. So, this "feel good" reasoning can cut both ways.

germancarfan1

I think he wants to feel confident in the car 50,000+ miles into its purchase lfe. Can you provide him with evidence that the car will inspire confidence at that mileage? Can anyone yet? Thus, your experiences at 3K arn't really helpful...frankly, I'd hope nobody was regretting their car at that low mileage.

germancarfan1

The guy doesn't need to provide you with an excuse. He doesn't want a Hyundai. Maybe it's based on a the sorid history of Hyundai, maybe it's because its predicted resale value isn't as good, maybe its because its IIHS crash test scores arn't spectacular, maybe it's something else. What evidence can you point to that a brand new Sonata won't suffer the same fate as one produced in 1999? JDPOWER's initial quality testing at 90 days? Automitive articles on how nice the Hyundai was when they drove it for 14.5 miles? Your anecdotal evidence on how your 2006 Civic was crap, therefore evey Honda is crap, thus Hyundai is somehow good (great logic)?

Hyundai is a brand, not a religion. It doesn't need to be prostelitized. You don't need to justify your purchase of the cheaper car by convincing others to do the same.

pat

And by the same token, it is not necessary for you to bash Hyundai all over the Forums.

bobw3

Bashing cars (or anything) is simply a sign of insecurity of the person doing the bashing. They might not be aware of it, but they're just unconsciously looking for approval. So someone bashing Hyundai is really wondering...hmmmm, maybe I could have saved thousands of dollars. Of course the bashers will always deny it, but the more they deny and argue the more insecure they really are. Holds true for any bashing, not bashing car makers.

germancarfan1

Actually, I own a 2004 Elantra. I've always been open and honest about that. Worst purchase decision ever.

targettuning

What!!!you again? I'm not asking for an excuse from him. Actually I'm not asking for anything. It was just a suggestion but you cannot even allow the very thought that someone might want to look at all possibilities including Hyundai. I for one am weary of your uninformed diatribe against Hyundai at every opportunity. With regard to my Honda, it isn't crap just a fairly big disappointment. It isn't only my ANECDOTAL evidence, please check the 2006 Civic owner site to see how many others aren't pleased. Honda is, in my opinion, a brand that is running on its previous great reputation AND becoming overpriced for the end product
What SORDID history? please elaborate Since it would be a waste of time to point out to you Hyundai has a great reputation and it is getting better I won't...oops just did, my bad. And no matter how many times I point out to you that I have previously owned several Hyundai products with less problems between all three of them than the 2006 Honda Civic you still infer that this is faulty logic. It isn't based on logic at all but personal experience. What is "prostelitized"? it isn't in my Webster's. Take a deep breath and please stop frothing at the mouth!!!

germancarfan1

How is it that: critical analysis of a brand = bashing? Which of my comments were misleading or incorrect? Where was there a personal attack? Where was it offtopic?

Maybe Edmunds forums would be more popular if the free flow of conversation wasn't stifled.

pat

This is getting out of hand. Let's get back to the cars and leave ALL of the bashing outside - brands and people.

shado4

How is it that: critical analysis of a brand = bashing?
Critical analysis of a brand may not be considered bashing. However, critical analysis of a brand ad nauseum as you constantly do against Hyundai IS bashing. Everyone knows of your hatred of Hyundai, and quite frankly, it's getting really old.

Any time someone tries to say something nice about Hyundai you can count on germancarfan to immediately go on the attack.

pat

We need to get back to the cars, please.

pat

Have you folks seen this? Edmunds.com forecasts 2007 automotive trends

It has some relevance to what we've been discussing even though it's across the vehicle spectrum.

thegraduate

Whether you own it or not, pointless bashing is, well, pointless.

To change things up a bit, I'll suggest a couple of new topics...

Has anyone seen pics of the new Malibu? They aren't have bad in my opinion. This shots look more like an Aura - a good thing IMO.

Also, I'm still waiting on some real shots of the next Accord. Anybody seen anything other than a concept drawing lately?





Looks a lot better than that Whirlpool Refridgerator they've been selling. The Malibu is a decent car that I've always felt was let down by it's front end.

mz6greyghost

Ended up w/ a TL.

Nice ride. Did you look at a G35? That would've been my choice in that price range.

I'm glad you inserted "IMO" and "MHO." The Accord and Camry might be appliances to you but not to others.

Isn't that the purpose of this forum? To compare/contrast the cars and offer opinions?

Seriously, if someone's happy with their Camry or Accord, great! They bought what THEY liked. I happened to buy a Mazda6 since a sports car isn't practical enough for my needs right now, and the Mazda6 IMO was the closest thing to it. As soon as I hit the lottery, I'll be able to afford another, not-so-practical toy.

I also don't understand why "jealousy" or "envy" comes into play when discussing one car against another. Just because one decides a Honda over a Hyundai doesn't make then envious of other Hyundai owners because said Honda owner "wasted their money". There's a reason why there are lots of very good choices in this segment, and having a choice is good. Whether it's a car that's more luxurious, or sporty, or a foreign nameplate versus domestic. What matters is that a person spend their hard-earned $$$ on what makes them happy.

shado4

Front clip looks nice. Wonder what the back looks like? I've seen a picture of the interior as well and it is a huge step up over the current Malibu.

louiswei

Seriously, no one thought that the rear 2/3 of the Malibu look exactly like the TL? Check out the window shape and C-pillar. They are IDENTICAL.

The front end reminds me of those talking cars in the movie CARS.

TL:


Malibu:

ggesq

"Nice ride. Did you look at a G35? That would've been my choice in that price range."

Not to go too OT, but yes I did. I appreciated the G's competence in driving dynamics but in the end I did not want it because of its (subjective) fugly interior, harsh ride and noisy cabin. I chose the TL because it is was the perfect combination of performance, luxury, technology and value.

"I happened to buy a Mazda6 since a sports car isn't practical enough for my needs right now, and the Mazda6 IMO was the closest thing to it."

Glad to hear your 6 is working for you. I was really impressed with the driving dynamics and responsiveness I felt when test driving the S6. Obviously, I did not end up buying it.

"I also don't understand why "jealousy" or "envy" comes into play when discussing one car against another. Just because one decides a Honda over a Hyundai doesn't make then envious of other Hyundai owners because said Honda owner "wasted their money". There's a reason why there are lots of very good choices in this segment, and having a choice is good. Whether it's a car that's more luxurious, or sporty, or a foreign nameplate versus domestic. What matters is that a person spend their hard-earned $$$ on what makes them happy."

I agree w/ you. This forum would be a little more pleasant if others agreed as well

lahiri

I am scared to try any Detroit product after horrible experience with my Chevy Blazer (that I finally traded in for a Honda CR-V).

People are scared, but there's a reason why they're scared!