Cooling Systems -- Problems & Solutions (Radiator, Fan, etc)
Mr_Shiftright
Member Posts: 64,481
in General
This forum is for discussing any issue related to a car engine cooling system (NOT air conditioning!), including radiator, recommended coolant types, cooling fan, thermostat, overflow tank, air bleeding, belts and hoses, and even head gasket questions.
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Roy
You want this one:
Climate Control Problems
thank you
Host
You can test these sensors pretty easily but you may need a wiring diagram to figure out how your system works.
Replaced the radiator last summer (due to crack at the top) and left to drive to Fla. Noticed it running hot almost to redline on the way there. Had to drive with the heat on to keep it in satifactory range under highway driving. It was OK around town and fine highway as the weather cooled off. Now of course it is hot in Fla and I have same problem. I figured thermostat must not be opening all the way. Now I have to drive back north home from college. With no tools or a place to work on the car here in fla. I took it to Firestone and asked to have thermostat replaced. They are giving me a song and dance saying it is the water pump?
I don't see how that is possible. AFAIK the water pump is either broke and you are overheating or leaking (not my case). I have never heard of one that works under certain conditions. They wanted over 400 to replace the pump and thermosat. or 153 to do just a themostat!!! Of course if I had them do the pump and themostat and it was just the thermostat problem would be fixed to the tune of over $400 to replace a $4 part. needless to say I left. Interesting thing was they had taken the thermostat out and where going to replace it even though I declined the work at $153. Then the realized they did not have the gasket which I had sitting in my car but they would not use. So they put it back together with the old thermostat and gasket. Took them about 20 Min to put back together. They charged me $16 for "looking at it". Now it seems to be running hotter.
I am going to take it to another mechanic tomorrow who I hope will not be out to rip me off so any thoughts would be helpful.
You might remember me from the tranny forum with a k car that had a bad tranny. I junked it, and found a '98 Explorer for cost! through my brother's friend in the car biz.
Anyway, the coolant in the reserve tank was brown and foamy. I assumed the rest of it was as well, so I flushed it in front of my parent's house (and left a decent sized stain in the street in the process - when my bucket didn't catch all of it). Much to my surprise - the coolant in the radiator was green. It was consuming a lot of coolant too, and I could smell coolant while driving. My temp is slightly cooler than the middle of the gauge, and both my heat and A/C are working. I added some stopleak in the radiator to alleviate the smell assuming there was a pinhole leak somewhere. It seemed to stop the coolant smell and maybe the use of so much coolant, but I am not sure yet. It could be too early to tell.
I have new coolant in there now after the drain and fill last night. Although, I never drained the brown stuff out of the reserve, and it used it since I only poured 1 gallon mix in the radiator after the flush, and it takes 1 3/4.
I refilled the reserve, and drove to work this morning (16mi ride). I looked in the reserve and spots of brown again. The oil dipstick looks OK - a little high - but looks like oil nevertheless. The tranny dipstick looks good, and appears to just have tranny oil on it. There's no white smoke...should I just ignore it?
As for possible oil in the radiator, you could have a leak in that part of the radiator that helps cool your transmission fluid.
You could also have your cooling system pressure tested for leaks. This can often spot not only leaks but head gasket issues perhaps.
But yeah, just keep an eye on things. Can you see inside the radiator. Does it look plugged up or are the outside fins corroded and breaking off?
It's too late for flushing that reserve. I didn't put enough coolant in the radiator after draining it, so it just took the brown stuff from the reserve. I had to refill it.
Even with the new stuff, it looks like little, oil deposits, are in the coolant. It could be the stop leak I put in however. That was brown in color also.
I looked in the radiator with the cap off, before I flushed it. It was pretty dark in there, so I could not really see if anything was plugged up. Although what is strange when I first flushed it - cold coolant started coming out of it, but then it paused. A little while later, a new wave a very hot coolant just started pouring out of the thing, leading me to believe something could have been clogged up in there.
It looks like draining the coolant was NOT wasteful at all, like my family said. I feel relieved to get that first step out of the way. I am tempted to just ignore it however. The smell is gone, and the reserve coolant is relatively clean now. Plus I don't have temp problems. The tranny fluid is red as ever on the stick, so if it were mixing, wouldn't be red/greenish on the stick? I am starting to think it was the stop leak that didn't circulate.
As for the fins on the rad, they look relatively good compared to most I've seen. Thanks
Oh, and reserve bottle coolant is brown again. I had the A/C on today too and still, it runs just below the middle on the temp gauge. Thanks
RE: THERMOSTAT -- you pretty much have to take it out to check it, and if it isn't expensive, it's a GREAT idea to just replace it, since you have all that goop in there.
Stopleak is kind of a desperate measure, so you shouldn't overdo it.
I think that Stop Leak did the trick (despite being brown in color) because it doesn't seem to use any coolant now. Also it doesn't smell either. And judging from when I drained it last - I am willing to bet the coolant is green in the radiator - just the reserve bottle coolant is brown.
I've used a compression tester on a 2 stroke dirt bike before. Is it as EZ for an SUV as unscrewing a spark plug; putting in the gauge; and starting the engine 6 times for each plug? That'll tell me if the rings are good, No? But where can I get the specs?
Or maybe pressure testing that coolant systems sounds like a good idea? Maybe it's that water pump not pumping the stuff around. But how much is that? I just upgraded from an '88 k to a '98 Explorer (albeit for cost) but it broke the bank in a way. Plus I am a tightwad who has some junior mechanic skills, and hates mechanics. Thanks Mr Shift.
Nick
I suggested the thermostat because you said coolant was pushing out the reservoir or radiator. If the thermostat got partially stuck, there would be poor water circulation and you'd get a fast overheat and coolant blowing out. And besides, thermostats don't like stop leak very much. It is after all, clogging all small openings, as it is supposed to do. Stop leak isn't smart, it doesn't know which openings are good and which aren't good.
So what should I do? It doesn't use coolant any more, or smell, so the stop leak appears to be working. Either that or the do-it-yourself drain and fill, did the trick. I drained it after put the Stop Leak in, so I probably drained whatever Stop Leak was there anyway. I am not sure about draining again to get to that thermostat with my new coolant and all.
But why Brown in the Reserve? Could it just some Stop Leak in the bottle. It's been like 90 degrees here and the needle is just running a little on the cooler side, by about 1/6 on an inch, on the gauge.
When I drive on the highway my car works like it should all the readings are right for temp and only when i start up my car does the coolant light come on. But when I drive for about 20 mins on the highway my coolant light comes on and then when I pull over to check it the all the coolant dumps on the ground through the pressure release hose. I am completely stumped and so is every person I have brought my car too (INCUDING THE FORD DEALERSHIP)
Now I was stupid and spent tons of money changing just about everything the cooling system.
I have changed the water pump, hoses, radiator cap, thermostat, temp sender, temp sensor, I have had the head gasket checked 4 times (all came up negative)
so I am completely out of ideas
PLZ HELP
Otherwise, I'm wondering if your car requires a certain way to refill the coolant--that is, maybe you have air in your cooling system because it wasn't bled off properly during coolant filling.
The reason I say this is that your coolant light is related to coolant level---your coolant seems to be surging, which it will do if there is air trapped in the system.
I was wondering I have heard that there is a flapper on the top radiator hose could this be the problem?
Thx for replying
Usually when I face a problem that seems to defy logic, what has happened is that I assumed a new part or repaired part was now functioning when in fact it was not. Given that perhaps 3% (in some cases) of new parts and 10% (so I've read) of rebuilt parts, depending on who rebuilds them, can be defective, it is possible that this is happening to you.
Question is, on which I'm not clear yet---is your car in fact overheating or just burping out fluid?
My understand of what you are saying is:
1. coolant light goes on immediately after cold start. (if true, then you have low coolant right off the bat).
2. Coolant light goes out, but comes back after highway driving.
3. Coolant then gushes out.
If #2 is as you stated, then either coolant has expanded to shut off the light, and then there is an overheat (in other words, the coolant light can light for more than one reason.)
If #2 is as you stated, perhaps the coolant overheated because initiallly there wasn't enough of it. In other words, the air problem gives the coolant level light a false reading when cold--then the water pump kicks in, and the coolant temp rises, expanding the coolant, shutting off the light. As you drive, the trapped air interrupts the coolant flow, heating it up, putting the light on again, and eventually the coolant boils over.
Just speculating here---this is the rzombie Theory #1---.
Just wanted to know, the cooling fan has not been turning on when the engine gets really hot. I changed the rad fluid and just recently changed the sensor in back of the thermostat thinking that was the problem because when I unplug the wire harness on the sensor the fan goes on an as soon as I plug it back in it shuts of and never comes back on.
I do not have air conditioning and it is an automatic if that can help.
Thanks
Jordan
I have changed the water pump, the upper and lower radiator hose, the thermostat and the two smaller hoses that feed coolant to the heater core (i think, again). I am confident the leak is not coming from one of these components as the leak is the same now as before.
Does anybody know what the potential source of this leak could be? There is some coolant on one of the hose couplings on the hose that connects to the transmission, but I am not convinced this is the source.
Thank you
Also, one must never presume that just because a part is replaced, that this eliminates that part as a culprit.
As far a the repalcement parts go, I replaced them myself so I'm confident in the quality of the install. I have also verified that the leak is not coming from the new thermostat, the new hoses and the new water pump. The leak is coming from somewhere low on front of the engine.
Thanks again for any input.
Otherwise, I have a couple of shops around that could possibly do this for me.
Thanks again!!!
Are you quite sure your electric fan is running?
Thx
I have a dark red Trooper...if I leave it parked outside in the summer sun, it take at least half of the 30-40 minute trip home to really cool down. Since I started parking in the parking garage (shade), it is relatively cool when I get in and immediately cooled down...make a lot of difference with a dark vehicle.
Bill
Thanks, Karen
first of all, they COULD be right but I'd like to know how they arrived at the conclusion of a crack in the head, as opposed say to a head gasket problem? In other words, what test did they perform to conclude absolutely that the head is cracked? (one good way would be to test for carbon monoxide gas dissolved in the coolant).
So unless they can explain their diagnosis (you can write it down as they talk, that's fine) then you may want a second opinion. Maybe you just have a leak somewhere?
If you need a new head, I don't think I'd do that on an engine with 164K, and I don't think I'd put a new engine in a '96 Cavalier either. Your car isn't worth very much, so I'd tend to encourage you to put that money towards a replacement vehicle. You could probably buy a decent '96 Cavalier with far fewer miles for $3,000 or so.
Once you open up an engine, you don't know where it will lead. I'm just concerned that $1,200 might not be the end of it.
This is my first time porting on this forum. I just bought a 95 Cadillac DeVille, and I drove it home. When I got home, and I stopped the engine, coolant started to boil out of the coolant tank.
No warning lights came on during the trip, and did not get any warning messages from the instrument cluster.
Any ideeas?
I'm not sure if the engine overheated because did not get any warning lights or messages.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
But presuming the better of human nature and that this was a coincidence--if you have lost a lot of coolant the warning light might not go on because the sensor cannot read steam, only liquid. Perhaps the coolant level was way down when you bought the vehicle.
What you'll have to do is fill up the coolant and pressure test the system for leaks. If you have no leaks, then you look to other sources for overheating, which are many.
On a ten year old car, the radiator is always suspect, as might be a stuck thermostat or an inoperative electric cooling fan. If these prove okay you might consider less likely candidates, like a broken impeller inside the water pump or a bad head gasket.
Now the loose cap doesn't CAUSE the boiling over, keep that in mind, but it may have caused coolant to leak out, thereby compromising engine cooling and also causing your heat gauge to mis-read.
So you may or may not have your problem licked here.
Certainly a vehicle this old should have the radiator flow tested.
I had just replaced the radiator with a used one couple of days prior to this. Please give me an idea of what you think the problem might be, and how much you think it will cost to fix.
Any help/suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated