My info came from my memory about the time I spent with Toyota engineers during the late 90's in their development building near Toyota City, Aichi Prefecture, Japan and seemingly countless hours of late night conference calls to help them solve a small aspect of the hybrid system.
If your vehicle registers 6 bars and still performed badly, it means your have extra loads on the engine. Loads could be in many forms: extra weights, towing, electrical problems (unlikely with Lexus quality assurance). The car could have passed quality assurance in Japan but was messed around with, and damaged after shìpping to the dealership.
The recommendation to take to another dealer is a good one because of many reasons. If they commented about the lurch as you said, I would not have much confidence about their ability to solve your problem (in fact, your comment leads me to think that they disown the problem). The system was engineered to operate smoothly, and seemlessly, ie. no suđden lurch. The CVT design can not experience lurch occurances long term because it would be damaged. That's why a precise and smooth engine was a requirement. And that's one reason the CVT, an old concept, was never really in production with a regular and imprecise combustion engine. The regular automatic transmission is not a good design preference conceptually compared to the CVT, but it can take punishment better.
Good luck.
BTW, you're not going to take my 400h! I don't let a good thing go that easy.
My 400h has been smooth, quick and still puts a smile on my face after four weeks of driving. I get an honest 27 to 28 mpg in mixed city freeway drivng with some airconditioning use. No lurching, CVT is very smooth. Could it be the lurching you experienced was due to your foot on the brake and also a touch of the gas pedal? Drive by wire vehicles notoriously dislike two footed driving and that will cause a jerky response in acceleration.
I have about 3200 miles on my RX400h. My average mileage is 20 mpg. I was at Lake Tahoe after purchasing it & the cars instruments said it was getting 33-37 MPG. Driving home to LA it averaged 28.75 mpg. This was the most it has gotten since I purchased it. The Dealer has done nothing to help with this issue. Keyes Lexus says that the vehicle is running to specs. There are other issues like the engine sounds as if it were dropping out of the vehicle going over a speed bump and getting a little loft. I have had to contact Lexus for a factory Rep as the dealer would not do so.
My RX400h only averages 20 MPG at 3200 miles and driving 2/3 city and 1/3 highway.. I believe somethngs wrong and have contacted Lexus for a factory rep. As the dealer will do nothing but say the vehicle is at specs.
I purchased my 400h may 5th. Took it to the dealer on the 24th for poor gas milage (20MPG). Dealer said all is at specs and eluded to my driving as the cause. On the 29th I took a trip to Lake Tahoe. While there for two weeks MPG as stated by the insturments was 33 to 37 MPG???? Great. On the trip home at sppeds of 60 to 80 MPH it averaged 28.75 in 90 to 100 degree weather and some air not alot. When home the average was again 20 MPG. Second trip to same dealer same results. When going over wide low speed bumps the engine sounds as if it is dropping out of the car. This is with only a very small amount of loft. Dealer says all ok...???? Also at times when traveling city and at about 20 mph I will speed up not too fast and I hear the RPM's raise way too much and do not get a corresponding increase in speed. Then the RPM's very slowly lower to a normal level.. Dealer is of no use. Dealer said milage U get is it Per Lexus. I've call for a factory Rep.
My 400h was at 21 MPG until I got to 4000 miles and then like magic I started getting 24 MPG. I also stopped using ARCO gas and now using Exxon, Shell, or any of the Biggies, using 87 octane. I also took my car to the Lexus Dealer and got no help at all. I don't think they know what white glove service is. After spending $50,000+ on a car you would think they would be more helpful.
Since my purchase of my 400h on 6/3/05 I have been getting a consistent 28+ mpg in 90% highway, 10% city. On a recent trip from Portland to Seattle I got 28.5 mpg.
Last week I had to do several short mileage trips. I was not surprised to see my mileage drop to 23 mpg. Numerous short trips are a mileage killer. The same short mileage trips in my former RX300 gave me 17-18 mpg.
From your post I can see that you enjoyed much better mileage on longer trips.
You may have to register (it's free) to read them. The jist of the articles, that include much test driving, is that the fuel efficiency of the Lexus RH 440h and Toyota Highlander SUV hybrids was very dissappointing. There was barely any mileage difference between them and their much less expensive gasoline-powered relatives.
We bought our RX400h in mid May. We are getting about 27 mpg on the road but only about 22-23 in the city. We were under the impression that city driving would get better mileage per gallon than the road because we would be driving at speeds under 35mph and the battery would take care of most of that driving. If we eliminate the first 5 minutes of city driving, the average is in the neighborhood of 30 mpg sometimes even better. The problem is that many trips are only about 5 to ten minuets. I was told by a Prius owner that the catalytic converter takes a lot of energy to heat and that would account for the poor mileage in the first 5 minutes. He also told me that in Canada and Europe there is an EV switch that forces the vehicle to run on battery unless the battery needs charging or the speed is above 35-40 mph. Acceleration from a stop would be on battery power. Were any of you under the impression that the RX400h would run on battery if speeds were below 36 mph? This is what sales told us.
Gunner, if I was in your place, I think I would try taking the car to a different dealer. If your driving at home tends to be very short trips, a couple of miles at a time than it might be as bad as 21 mpg especially during the hot weather. We had some time when we were doing only short errands and our mileage for a tank that way was just under 22 mpg. Other than that we are generally getting between 25 and 27 mpg per tank. I don't get the reving up of the engine you describe.
If your regular driving isn't in very adverse conditions (short trips, lots of stop and go), then it sounds like something might be wrong in the set-up of the car - it did well driving at high altitude and is doing funny things at home.
I just read your post by suring over from the Highlander Hybrid board.
You are not in error when you reported unexpected acceleration when the ICE kicked in...
I experienced a very similiar situation when I prepared for a right hand turn from a fast moving highway.
as I proceeded to turn into the sidestreet the ICE kicked in and the vehicle 'lurched' forward directly towards another vehicle which was in the intersection waiting to turn onto the highway.
I slammed on the brakes, thereby initiating a shutdown of the ICE and swerved to the right.
I definetely think there is a problem here that Toyota NEEDS TO ADDRESS !!! BTW my mileage has also been poor with 26 mpg on the forst tank...did the dealer put something in the tank ????? to 24.3 to 23.2mpg.....hell, my 1990 4 runner with a 3.0 V6 got consistent 22 mpg.
Fellow Hybid Types, lets not sweep this problem under the carpet. Sorry to those of you who paid close to 50K for a vehicle that does not perform as advertised, as I have for close to 40K.... :lemon:
I've averaged almost 26mpg (measured at pump) over my first 2500 miles. I average ~30 mins/ride, 80-90F Temperatures, and 2/3 highway/ 1/3 city. Once warmed up, city mileage is 26-28 mpg with heavy A/C, and highway is ~27 mpg at 60-65mpg, dropping to 23-24mpg at 75mph. My worst tank, 22.1mpg, was with 5 adult passengers and 75-80 mph, combined with an "idling" tour of NYC in boiling hot weather.
I just read a San Diego Trib revue claiming he only got 16 mpg driving to Arizona at 75mph on cruise control. He further claimed this was much worse than the gas-only version. I can't imagine how his mileage could be this bad, unless he was overloaded and driving into a 30mph headwind the entire trip!
Re; BMW -- Ive owned 4 of them and have become friends with the service dept. Always something wrong. Same with the Porsche. The Lexus H I get in and drive knowing I will have a smile on my face. Re the engine kicking in --- all cars have idiosincracys. How long have you been driving ?? This is a fine handling, driving car. sounds like you're a Chevy guy.
Don't be so quick to criticize others. There is a service bulletin out on a problem that might cause the behavior that timothyt complained about. Like you, I'm not experiencing the problem in my Rx400 but that doesn't mean he's wrong or imagining things. If the idle speed learning is the problem, it sounds like there is an easy fix.
A similar thing happened on steering problems. Some people were complaining about pull in their steering and some of us had Rx400's that tracked straight. Some dealers initially brushed off the owner complaints, but there are owners who have gotten it fixed (and at least one reported it was a learning problem). I wonder if some dealer techs aren't following the proper set up proceedures (or if Lexus is working bugs out of their set up process).
Had the 5000 mile check-up last week after a trip from Atlanta to upstate New York, New York City, Boston, Philadelphia and Washington. Great performance but disappointed with the mileage a little. Just getting 24.5 for the 2300 miles. Still, better than any SUV we have owned. The drive is still smooth. The navigation will save any marriage!
Just passed 5000 miles this week and my average mileage is 26.6 mpg. My latest tank of 352 miles was 28.6 mpg with a ~50/50 mix of City/Highway with no A/C on regular gas. Humidity was down this week so I did notice a 1-2 mpg improvement while not using the A/C. I'm thrilled with the power and fuel savings vs. my former ML430 (similar 268 hp, but averaged 14 mpg over 87,000 miles).
After the initial dealer fill up I had 324 miles on my 400h. Since then I have driven 3814 miles and used 144.481 gallons of fuel which translates into 26.398 mpg.
My driving included a 2000 mile road trip which had fairly level stretches and mountain passes up to 7500 feet. The remaining miles were approximately 90% highway and 10% city. I generally leave the AC on auto at 73 degrees and the day time temperature has been in the 75-85 degree range. I use cruise control whenever it is safe to do so and have been using 87 octane fuel (Chevron, Shell, and Union 76).
A fellow 400h driver told me that he gets better mileage with 92 octane fuel. I filled my last tank with premium and according to the navigation screen I am getting 28.3 mpg. Preliminarily it appears that I may be getting 2 mpg higher than on the 87 octane. The performance didn't seem to be affected. The economics does not justify the additional 20 cents per gallon cost so I will fill up one more tank with 92 octane to verify the mileage and then return to 87 octane.
My 400h is getting about 5 mpg better than my previous 2003 RX300. I love the car and am happy with the increased fuel economy, reduced emmisions to the environment, and the increased performance. I plan to keep the car until it reaches 70-80,000 miles.
The RX400h is not a Prius nor a Porsche. Before buying you should think trough what you want out of your automobile. I did and am getting just about what I expected.
I concur with your (the last several posts) reports that the 400h tend to average between 26-27mpg in mixed driving. I got the same ball park figures.
If you'd add all of our miles together and consider all terrains+driving styles, that's a lot of data making the 26-27mpg a scientifically reasonable expectation for this version of 400h on 87octane gas.
And remember, this is the summer of heat waves.
When things cool down after moonsoon rain in FL, I'd run errands with the AC off, just to see my mpg goes up from 26+ to 29+ with 100miles+ used in the calculation (I reset it every new gas tank).
I believe all your figures would go up around 28-29mpg comes autumn.
"Has anyone changed their driving style to get high gas mileage?"
Keep an eye on the real time MPG bar graph. Sometimes, by relaxing the gas pedal a tiny bit (on straight away road), you'd see the bar graph shows a significant increase in MPG, for almost the same speed or not too much loss in speed.
I agree with you that you shouldn't have to drive like an old lady to get the advertised mileage. I think they should let us get a RX330 also and give us the 10 grand back. Mine is only getting between 19 and 22 city.
I have had my 400h and am very disappointed with the city gas mileage. I have only been getting between 19 and 22 city. It sure is a long way from the 31 mpg. they advertised. I think it is a joke to be that far off.
I don't own a 400h; however, reading all of these posts makes me believe that people are putting far too much stock in their NAV readouts than in doing actual calculations of gallons used divided into miles traveled. I have a BMW which has a "mileage indicator" showing "actual" vs. acrued mileage numbers. NONE of them is ever accurate compared to figuring out what the REAL mileage is by filling the tank and dividing that number of gallons into the miles traveled. Too many variables as the car's computer is calculating all kinds of situations where you may be cruising economically for a long period, but then have the mileage killed by traffic or other circumstances. It figures out an average and displays that number which may be far off reality. While the "instataneous" mileage number from the NAV is interesting, take it with a grain of salt and figure your numbers manually. They will be real.
Have you asked the dealer to try the proceedure from this TSIB? Those of you experiencing poor performance might ask your dealers to try the ISC Learning proceedure which reinitializes the the idle speed control. It is in TSIB EG010-05. This is something that can be necessary if the 12 V battery dies (and possibly that happens during shipment or prep of some of the cars).
Some of the things this can cause are poor fuel economy, engine running too often and excess noise at idle. I would really like to hear the results from trying this for some of you with poor mpg experience.
Is your city driving all with a cold engine? I see a city MPG average of 22 when I do all short trip (less than 6 miles or so) driving. Other than that, with a lot of AC going I see about 24 mpg. Our average for the first 3000 plus miles (calculated based on gas purchases) was 25.4.MPG. We are running regular gas and performance has been fine with that. Last weekend we had it on a pull up a steep grade for the first time and it had plenty of power with regular so I have yet to figure out why the manual recommends premium for better performance. Eventually, I may try a couple of tanks of premium to see if I notice any difference.
I agree that instantaneous mileage displays don't give a good feel for average mileage though I find it somewhat useful for seeing what actions get better mileage. A great instaneous mileage reading for 5 minutes creeping forward in stop and go traffic doesn't mean much for your average when you only went a mile or so. A really poor reading for a half second when you accellerate also doesn't mean a lot when averaged with good readings as you cruise along at speed.
On the other hand, the average mileage meter on the car seems reasonably accurate. When I have let it run for a tank, it has been within 1 MPG of my calculated MPG.
I just completed 2 tanks of 92 octane and it appears that I got about 2 mpg (28.3 mpg) better than on 87 octane (26.3). I did not notice any change in power or performance. The 2 mpg does not justify economically the extra 20-25 cents per gallon. I have 4500 miles on my 400h and am comparing driving 90% highway/10% city with very little stop and go traffic. I will fill my next tank with regular and think I will approach 27 mpg now that the engine is broken in.
As I stated in an earlier post, my gas mileage in the city, with air conditioning running, in the hot San Fernando Valley is about 31 to 32 mpg IF I discount the first five minutes. Does anyone know why the first five minutes of driving causes such a nose dive? It is really devastating to an overall average if one is constantly making short trips.
600 miles -- air on all the time (this is Tucson, you know) and average is 26.8 mostly urban driving, some interstate but not much
Today I also scratched the rear hatch. It went up as the garage door opened (I've got to figure out the key buttons better, it seems)
Estimate for two small scratches on the rear hatch is $430. Have to repaint the whole back section and replace all the markings. The little Lexus name on the back is $57 to replace. Gives you the idea. The whole thing is two scratches about 1.5 inches long.
I did that to my 99 Ford Exploder when it was only a few months old. Small scratch in rear hatch and bumper was close to a grand to fix. They have to repaint the whole rear hatch and clearcoat it. While the ford badges were off i had them replaced with M5 BMW tags. Most people thot it was funny, almost made the whole thing worth it.
I had been in the waiting list for this car for sometime and wanted to test drive the car but everytime the dealer refused saying the car was already sold. Finally found a dealer that had a demo and let my wife and I to test drive the car.
The first thing I noticed sitting in the back was the buzzing noise when the rear generator kicked in, very annoying. Second was looking at the on board display real time mileage, noticed that the gas mileage never went over 25 MPG as we were driving the car (except if you let go of the gas) and in most cases was below 20. The turning point was when I saw the trip computer (around the speedometer cage) showing 450 miles with 16.8 MPG as the avg run rate, I guess it is not very smart on the dealers part not to reset that often or turn it off during test drives (may be that's why they don't do test drives ) That is not any different than older SUVs. Granted many owners on this forum are getting better MPG than that but IMHO if you are considering getting one of these just for the gas mileage you may end up disappointed. Two other points, this car most likely would not qualify for the car pool lane at least not in California even if the law passes since the gas mileage is low so no bonus points for that, second a quick calculation tells me that my $ savings on gas with this car would be approx $750 per year (assuming 20k miles per year so if you drive less your savings will be lower, also assuming $3/gallon gas). :sick: At that rate it would take me over 13 years to get the $10000+ premium that this car requires. Needless to say I'll be getting my deposit back this weekend. Compare the price and gas mileage to other popular SUVs like RX330 or MDX and decide for yourself.
Traded a ML500 in for a RX-400h. Getting 27.5 mpg average driving it hard in Colorado. Acceleration is just as good as my old ML and 12 mpg better gas mileage. Better ride than the ML and quieter. Maintenance was very expensive on the ML and the brake dust and brake squealing below 40 degrees were driving me nuts. The RX-400h is an engineering marvel that puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. Transmission is very smooth (amazing that you never feel it shift up or down - even climbing 12,000+ ft mountain passes). In my wife's RX-330, I need to manually shift down to 3rd gear to get enough power to climb the pass at 70 mph. My wife drove the 400h this week for the first time and now hates her 330. I'll be getting her a 400h this week. They're hard to get in Colorado, but easy to get south and east of here where you can get one immediately. The extra cost of the 400h over the 330 is well worth it in Colorado for the extra power (no altitude hit on the electric power), sweet tranny and extra mpg.
As an owner of an "04 Prius, I am very interested in this thread. A lot of it seems like deja vu of the Prius owners thread. I am planning to trade my Prius for a larger vehicle in March of '07, when my three year b to b warranty expires. I hope to have available a hybrid Avalon at that time. One oft mentioned item is the advice to compare actual mileage divided by gallons added at pump versus nav to get true reading. On the Prius, this is difficult due to "bladder" inside fuel tank. Does the RX400H have the same? I have had to slooowly top off my tank to brim(against Toyota's recommendations) in order to really get true measure.
I am also looking for one for my wife (and me too) and wondered where you were referring to when you indicate ready availability "south and east of here". Are you referring to Colorado Springs, Kansas City or elsewhere? Denver area does not appear to have any current inventory and Abq seems to be similar.
the 400h, has a normal gas tank and fills normally. it does perform some automatic venting of the tank after the vehicle is turned off, there is no bladder. Regarding, 'not impressed' I am happy you were able to drive a demo. Lexus was concerned that whine from electric motors would bother some people and that is up to individual taste. They did pack alot of sound deadening material all around the cabin to minimize this issue. As you must know it is not fair to compair mpg on a dealer demo with real world. Everyone abuses the hell out of those demos especially when they realize the power that is available. The 400h gives you the power of a V8, with the gas mileage of a six, it handles well for a SUV. It has comfort, safety and options that rival cars in its class.
This is a great car and I love it, but I am disappointed about its fuel efficiency. There is clearly a problem with the EPA mileage rating, which is supposed to be 31 city & 27 highway. I am getting 21 city & 27 highway. The air conditioner broke down during the first 1,000 miles and they had to replace the condenser. It took one week for the part to arrive!
Katzjamr, wondering if you had the opportunity to drive the Tacoma Lexus black/black demo and whether you perceived it had been driven extra hard? I ask as it may soon be available for sale and this may be a way to avoid a long wait or having to buy out of state/region. I agree in general with your statement but this demo has about 1k miles and perhaps lexus test drivers are a bit easier than others in terms of abuse during test drive. If you drove it, did you notice any mileage issues regarding this vehicle as were reported by "not impressed" in his test drive of the other demo. Thanks
The black on black 400h at that dealer was infact the one i drove on two occaisons actually. My first test drive we did both freeway and street driving and i remember going over 100mph for a short spell to test the accelleration while already on the freeway. I remember everything worked well, it handled well. The second time i drove it i had the same feeling about everything we didnt go as fast. Shortly after i purchased my 400h the dealership had a customer appreciation nite with drinks, live music and a buffett. I dont usually attend however they were giving away two flat screen plasma tvs that night among other things. I looked at the black demo again and sat in it. There were scratches in the black paint near the right rear door at that time, everyone and their kids were climbing all over it. (no i didnt win the plasma tv). I am kind of obsessed with changing oil early on new vehicles i purchase so i was at the dealership again two weeks ago for an oil and filter change at 1500 miles. I looked at the black on black again and aside from a few more scratches it looked ok. Actually the 400h that i thot drove more harshly and didnt feel as good as your demo was the millenium silver one i drove the night i was there to purchase it. This was during the period that many of the tires were inflated to 40psi, and sure enough (i had brought a tire gauge) when i got the tires back down to 32 what was going to be my 400h felt normal in relation to the demo vehicle. Bottom line a large part of the appeal of these cars is the smooth linear quckness that is available at all speeds and i think they beg to be driven hard, and the demos take the brunt of that in part. I would work them for a hefty discount from msrp, and ask for an extended warranty or at least, the 500.00 pinstripe charge taken off and free chip guard especially since it s black. This will cover the lights front hood, backs of mirrors and cups inside the door handles with a clear plastic protection that i would at very least put on the hid headlights. One chip on those and u are out a grand. This protection costs them little to put on and is worth another 1K along with the interior leather protection. Do u really want black dude??? If so work them, and yes i think its been driven hard. good luck
Hey we were at the appreciation event in Tacoma too. We don't usually go to those either but the chance of a great food spread and winning "stuff" from our Lexus dealership intrigued us. We had a fun time and we'll be there next year. We're up to 3500 miles and are averaging 29 - 30 MPG. We haven't reset the odometer on the Energy Consumption display for several tanks to see what the H is actually averaging over the long run. We wrote a program for our pocket PC that we keep in the glovebox to see if the H numbers are different from our calculated values. The H shows us getting better mileage than our calculations by any where from 0.2 to 1 MPG. We're still doing EPA despite the inflated H number so we're very happy. Traffic's been so bad lately that we're always saying, "we don't care 'cuz we're on battery." We even stopped at a drive-through - yeesh!
At 3300 miles, I took a 2.5hrs trip on I-95, got 26.8mpg driving at 70mph+ just to stay with the traffic.
On the trip back, I took country road at 50-55mph and got 28.2mpg!
So there, this one did better than the EPA's 27mpg report. And that's in 95F weather with AC set at 80F.
At present, I can not match the city number of 31mpg. I think it is partly because of the weather and that the city I live in has multitudes of red lights. I had done better than 30mpg in city trips when the route has few red lights which I ended up going steady speed around 30-40mph.
The thing to note is that the 31 & 27 numbers are not Toyota's. They are from the should-be independent EPA.
Phx and Tuc also have waiting lists. Virtually all dealers in the western states do. Haven't looked east of CO though as that is too far away. Probably getting one out of Abq at this point. They have wait lists but found one unspoken for that looks like the right one.
Definetly passing on the Tacoma demo so thanks for the valuable and first hand reports.
hendjaz good to hear u are waiting for a new one, in the long run u will be happier. i wonder if there is any oversupply in the midwest or idaho montana. when was at the car show early this year one lexus dealer was offering to broker all of the 6 vehicles headed to the only dealer in Anchorage. They figured they were pretty useless up there.
From what I have read on almost every online auto site, there is a long wait for the 400h. We currently live in Hawaii and although its 900+ to ship the car, if you are in the Seattle or bay area, the car is practically shipped right to you. The base for the 400h here is just over 47,500 I think, only down side is No Nav. They will no ship any of them here, even if we were to order one lexus will not send us a RX with nav in it. Other than that, if any one wants more information on getting gone from here, i would be more than happy to supply you with my sale mans name and number. FYI it takes about 2 week for shipping some times 1 week, and all of the RX's over here come right from Japan as most main land RX's come from Canada.
Thanks for the suggestion hawaiiquayle. I think I have secured one on the mainland now, although haven't yet taken delivery. The 400h vehciles all come from Japan although you are right about the origin of many of the 330s.
Many years ago I lived in Palolo Valley area of Honolulu and drove frequently around Oahu during my brief break in schooling when I drove a Charlie's cab there. No need for Nav on Oahu as I learned the geography quickly. I can understand why they are leaving the Nav out in HI, although maybe it has something to do too with satellite coverage. In any event it is an expensive option that probably isn't warranted in the Islands.
I had a two week wait for my 400h to arrive in Tucson. It was already on its way. Was offered off lot deals from two of three dealers in Phoenix. Just this past weekend California dealer sent email he had one in stock.
A dealer in Phoenix had four coming in this month that were unsold.
I just returned from servicing my 400h after 5000 miles. My actual mileage to date is 26.808 mpg. My navigation system generally reports from 1/2 to 1 mpg higher than when calculated mathematically. My service consultant says that his other 400h customers are reporting in the low 26 range.
My driving included a 2900 mile trip from Seattle to Lake Tahoe and back. I generally set my cruise control at the speed limit when it is safe to do so. The balance of my driving has been 90% highway and 10% city with very little stop and go traffic and some short trips of 2-5 miles.
I ran 2 tanks of 92 octane and the rest 87 octane. I generally leave the AC on auto at 73 degrees. I estimate the average temperature was 75.
It appears that the EPA highway mileage of 27 mpg is accurate, but I question the 31 mpg city estimate. To be fair, I have not driven much stop and go city driving with a warm engine.
The first 5000 miles have been an enjoyable driving experience. I loved my 2003 RX300h, but my 400h is a step up in mileage and performance. The wine from the electric motors when slowing to a stop and the slight shudder when the ice shuts down are minor annoyances that no longer bother me.
I must have had bad timing when I checked the AZ dealers within the past week. I checked both Tucson dealers, both in Scottsdale and the one in Mesa. I either got no response to my inquiry about whether they had any current inventory available or received an invitation to make a deposit to secure a future one. I think local buyers have an understandable advantage in being able to go to the dealer and find out what's really there or about to arrive. Sorry I missed out on this opportunity in AZ as that was my first choice for an out of state purchase.
Comments
If your vehicle registers 6 bars and still performed badly, it means your have extra loads on the engine. Loads could be in many forms: extra weights, towing, electrical problems (unlikely with Lexus quality assurance). The car could have passed quality assurance in Japan but was messed around with, and damaged after shìpping to the dealership.
The recommendation to take to another dealer is a good one because of many reasons. If they commented about the lurch as you said, I would not have much confidence about their ability to solve your problem (in fact, your comment leads me to think that they disown the problem). The system was engineered to operate smoothly, and seemlessly, ie. no suđden lurch. The CVT design can not experience lurch occurances long term because it would be damaged. That's why a precise and smooth engine was a requirement. And that's one reason the CVT, an old concept, was never really in production with a regular and imprecise combustion engine. The regular automatic transmission is not a good design preference conceptually compared to the CVT, but it can take punishment better.
Good luck.
BTW, you're not going to take my 400h! I don't let a good thing go that easy.
I believe somethngs wrong and have contacted Lexus for a factory rep. As the dealer will do nothing but say the vehicle is at specs.
Last week I had to do several short mileage trips. I was not surprised to see my mileage drop to 23 mpg. Numerous short trips are a mileage killer. The same short mileage trips in my former RX300 gave me 17-18 mpg.
From your post I can see that you enjoyed much better mileage on longer trips.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/automobiles/31AUTO.html?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/automobiles/31TOYOTA.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/automobiles/31EPA.html
You may have to register (it's free) to read them. The jist of the articles, that include much test driving, is that the fuel efficiency of the Lexus RH 440h and Toyota Highlander SUV hybrids was very dissappointing. There was barely any mileage difference between them and their much less expensive gasoline-powered relatives.
If your regular driving isn't in very adverse conditions (short trips, lots of stop and go), then it sounds like something might be wrong in the set-up of the car - it did well driving at high altitude and is doing funny things at home.
You are not in error when you reported unexpected acceleration when the ICE kicked in...
I experienced a very similiar situation when I prepared for a right hand turn from a fast moving highway.
as I proceeded to turn into the sidestreet the ICE kicked in and the vehicle 'lurched' forward directly towards another vehicle which was in the intersection waiting to turn onto the highway.
I slammed on the brakes, thereby initiating a shutdown of the ICE and swerved to the right.
I definetely think there is a problem here that Toyota NEEDS TO ADDRESS !!!
BTW my mileage has also been poor with 26 mpg on the forst tank...did the dealer put something in the tank ????? to 24.3 to 23.2mpg.....hell, my 1990 4 runner with a 3.0 V6 got consistent 22 mpg.
Fellow Hybid Types, lets not sweep this problem under the carpet.
Sorry to those of you who paid close to 50K for a vehicle that does not perform as advertised, as I have for close to 40K.... :lemon:
I just read a San Diego Trib revue claiming he only got 16 mpg driving to Arizona at 75mph on cruise control. He further claimed this was much worse than the gas-only version. I can't imagine how his mileage could be this bad, unless he was overloaded and driving into a 30mph headwind the entire trip!
Tank Log (www.greenhybrid.com)
MPG ,Miles ,Gallons of Fuel , Degrees F, Minutes Per Ride
26.6 341 12.8 90 30
22.1 250 11.3 90 15
24.8 334 13.5 90 20
26.6 221 8.3 80 30
26.6 334 12.6 80 30
25.0 308 12.3 80 15
26.1 308 11.8 90 30
27.5 320 11.7 80 30
26.2 227 8.7 80 20
Re the engine kicking in --- all cars have idiosincracys. How long have you been driving ?? This is a fine handling, driving car. sounds like you're a Chevy guy.
A similar thing happened on steering problems. Some people were complaining about pull in their steering and some of us had Rx400's that tracked straight. Some dealers initially brushed off the owner complaints, but there are owners who have gotten it fixed (and at least one reported it was a learning problem). I wonder if some dealer techs aren't following the proper set up proceedures (or if Lexus is working bugs out of their set up process).
My driving included a 2000 mile road trip which had fairly level stretches and mountain passes up to 7500 feet. The remaining miles were approximately 90% highway and 10% city. I generally leave the AC on auto at 73 degrees and the day time temperature has been in the 75-85 degree range. I use cruise control whenever it is safe to do so and have been using 87 octane fuel (Chevron, Shell, and Union 76).
A fellow 400h driver told me that he gets better mileage with 92 octane fuel. I filled my last tank with premium and according to the navigation screen I am getting 28.3 mpg. Preliminarily it appears that I may be getting 2 mpg higher than on the 87 octane. The performance didn't seem to be affected. The economics does not justify the additional 20 cents per gallon cost so I will fill up one more tank with 92 octane to verify the mileage and then return to 87 octane.
My 400h is getting about 5 mpg better than my previous 2003 RX300. I love the car and am happy with the increased fuel economy, reduced emmisions to the environment, and the increased performance. I plan to keep the car until it reaches 70-80,000 miles.
The RX400h is not a Prius nor a Porsche. Before buying you should think trough what you want out of your automobile. I did and am getting just about what I expected.
If you'd add all of our miles together and consider all terrains+driving styles, that's a lot of data making the 26-27mpg a scientifically reasonable expectation for this version of 400h on 87octane gas.
And remember, this is the summer of heat waves.
When things cool down after moonsoon rain in FL, I'd run errands with the AC off, just to see my mpg goes up from 26+ to 29+ with 100miles+ used in the calculation (I reset it every new gas tank).
I believe all your figures would go up around 28-29mpg comes autumn.
Keep an eye on the real time MPG bar graph. Sometimes, by relaxing the gas pedal a tiny bit (on straight away road), you'd see the bar graph shows a significant increase in MPG, for almost the same speed or not too much loss in speed.
Drive like that, and they all "add" up.
There may be a sweet spot in the weather in fall and spring, but in general Hybrids lose some MPG in cold weather.
Those of you experiencing poor performance might ask your dealers to try the ISC Learning proceedure which reinitializes the the idle speed control. It is in TSIB EG010-05. This is something that can be necessary if the 12 V battery dies (and possibly that happens during shipment or prep of some of the cars).
Some of the things this can cause are poor fuel economy, engine running too often and excess noise at idle.
I would really like to hear the results from trying this for some of you with poor mpg experience.
Is your city driving all with a cold engine? I see a city MPG average of 22 when I do all short trip (less than 6 miles or so) driving. Other than that, with a lot of AC going I see about 24 mpg. Our average for the first 3000 plus miles (calculated based on gas purchases) was 25.4.MPG. We are running regular gas and performance has been fine with that. Last weekend we had it on a pull up a steep grade for the first time and it had plenty of power with regular so I have yet to figure out why the manual recommends premium for better performance. Eventually, I may try a couple of tanks of premium to see if I notice any difference.
On the other hand, the average mileage meter on the car seems reasonably accurate. When I have let it run for a tank, it has been within 1 MPG of my calculated MPG.
mostly urban driving, some interstate but not much
Today I also scratched the rear hatch. It went up as the garage door opened (I've got to figure out the key buttons better, it seems)
Estimate for two small scratches on the rear hatch is $430. Have to repaint the whole back section and replace all the markings. The little Lexus name on the back is $57 to replace. Gives you the idea. The whole thing is two scratches about 1.5 inches long.
The first thing I noticed sitting in the back was the buzzing noise when the rear generator kicked in, very annoying. Second was looking at the on board display real time mileage, noticed that the gas mileage never went over 25 MPG as we were driving the car (except if you let go of the gas) and in most cases was below 20. The turning point was when I saw the trip computer (around the speedometer cage) showing 450 miles with 16.8 MPG as the avg run rate, I guess it is not very smart on the dealers part not to reset that often or turn it off during test drives (may be that's why they don't do test drives
Granted many owners on this forum are getting better MPG than that but IMHO if you are considering getting one of these just for the gas mileage you may end up disappointed. Two other points, this car most likely would not qualify for the car pool lane at least not in California even if the law passes since the gas mileage is low so no bonus points for that, second a quick calculation tells me that my $ savings on gas with this car would be approx $750 per year (assuming 20k miles per year so if you drive less your savings will be lower, also assuming $3/gallon gas). :sick: At that rate it would take me over 13 years to get the $10000+ premium that this car requires. Needless to say I'll be getting my deposit back this weekend. Compare the price and gas mileage to other popular SUVs like RX330 or MDX and decide for yourself.
One oft mentioned item is the advice to compare actual mileage divided by gallons added at pump versus nav to get true reading. On the Prius, this is difficult due to "bladder" inside fuel tank. Does the RX400H have the same? I have had to slooowly top off my tank to brim(against Toyota's recommendations) in order to really get true measure.
I am also looking for one for my wife (and me too) and wondered where you were referring to when you indicate ready availability "south and east of here". Are you referring to Colorado Springs, Kansas City or elsewhere? Denver area does not appear to have any current inventory and Abq seems to be similar.
Thanks for any suggestions on availability.
The air conditioner broke down during the first 1,000 miles and they had to replace the condenser. It took one week for the part to arrive!
Katzjamr, wondering if you had the opportunity to drive the Tacoma Lexus black/black demo and whether you perceived it had been driven extra hard? I ask as it may soon be available for sale and this may be a way to avoid a long wait or having to buy out of state/region. I agree in general with your statement but this demo has about 1k miles and perhaps lexus test drivers are a bit easier than others in terms of abuse during test drive. If you drove it, did you notice any mileage issues regarding this vehicle as were reported by "not impressed" in his test drive of the other demo. Thanks
On the trip back, I took country road at 50-55mph and got 28.2mpg!
So there, this one did better than the EPA's 27mpg report. And that's in 95F weather with AC set at 80F.
At present, I can not match the city number of 31mpg. I think it is partly because of the weather and that the city I live in has multitudes of red lights. I had done better than 30mpg in city trips when the route has few red lights which I ended up going steady speed around 30-40mph.
The thing to note is that the 31 & 27 numbers are not Toyota's. They are from the should-be independent EPA.
Definetly passing on the Tacoma demo so thanks for the valuable and first hand reports.
Many years ago I lived in Palolo Valley area of Honolulu and drove frequently around Oahu during my brief break in schooling when I drove a Charlie's cab there. No need for Nav on Oahu as I learned the geography quickly. I can understand why they are leaving the Nav out in HI, although maybe it has something to do too with satellite coverage. In any event it is an expensive option that probably isn't warranted in the Islands.
A dealer in Phoenix had four coming in this month that were unsold.
My driving included a 2900 mile trip from Seattle to Lake Tahoe and back. I generally set my cruise control at the speed limit when it is safe to do so. The balance of my driving has been 90% highway and 10% city with very little stop and go traffic and some short trips of 2-5 miles.
I ran 2 tanks of 92 octane and the rest 87 octane. I generally leave the AC on auto at 73 degrees. I estimate the average temperature was 75.
It appears that the EPA highway mileage of 27 mpg is accurate, but I question the 31 mpg city estimate. To be fair, I have not driven much stop and go city driving with a warm engine.
The first 5000 miles have been an enjoyable driving experience. I loved my 2003 RX300h, but my 400h is a step up in mileage and performance. The wine from the electric motors when slowing to a stop and the slight shudder when the ice shuts down are minor annoyances that no longer bother me.