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This pattern is the same for all cars. Just take a look at some of Consumer Reports' "real world" gas mileage estimates. The RX330 has a city EPA rating of 18mpg, but CR's tests show that it only got 12mpg in city.
and I get about 20 mpg in my current car
at $3/gallon
that's $1500/year on gas
if I get 25 mpg in a 400H
that's $1200/year on gas
yikes, hardly seems worth replacing my car
but it does mean I have less emissions
and use less gas
and the 400H is a much nicer car than what I am driving
my miles are as follows:
1 mile at 10-15 mph (getting to the freeway - 2 stop signs)
15 miles at 70-80 mph (slight incline)
4 miles at 0-30 mph (slight incline, from freeway to work)
reverse this on the way home (so we can, therefore, ignore the inclie/decline issue)
I'm concerned that a hybrid is not the right vehicle for me, since my commute involves such a high % of miles driven at freeway speed, and such a low % at stop and go speed.
Thoughts?
Don't get me wrong. I am pro-hybrid and like the 400H. I was pretty convinced that this is the right car for me, but I'm interested in thoughts. I plan to be plugging the 400H in within 2 years. I belive you can already plug in a Prius. Or maybe that's just around the corner. It would be sweet to have more electric power, since it is so much cheaper, and cleaner for the air where you drive.
This 400h is one powerful vehicle. When I want to use that power, it is available. When I want to save gas/money, I can do that too. So the best reason to buy is a mixture between saving money when you're in the mood for it, and leave people in the dust when you're in the mood for it. That's a good flexibility for me.
My wife had trouble staying under 80mph when we travel (awhile ago). She says the car is so "softly powerful" on hwy and jumps off the redlights far quicker than others. It's nice when you are turning left and having to wait for traffic. You won't need a long space to turn like regular cars.
I bought the car to save gas because I drive 30k-40k a year. But I now realize that I love this 400h partly for the shear power of it.
And handling, too.
I have been using regular gas for the first 8500 miles. I am on my second tank of 92 octane and will see if this changes my mpg on my next trip to Portland.
The 400h is not the car for everyone, but I love mine. My RX300 was fully loaded as is my 400h (no dvd), so the differential in price over the RX330 was not a factor especially with the increased mileage and power.
but I'd like to get 30 mpg without changing my driving habits. If you drive 60mph on my commute, you will get pulled over for obstructing traffic. At a minimum, the CHP will suspect you are high. :-)
The Prius is not sporty enough for my driving desires. I want my car to give me a little bit of fun, at least. I'm really in a quandary. No one is going to see a Caddy CTS and think "that's a good choice for the environment" even though it gets mpg as good as the 400H (driven the way I plan to drive it)
I would say you will get flack from most environmentalists driving any SUV, hybrid, hydrogen or biodiesel. The Accord hybrid is sporty and they are being deeply discounted by a lot of dealers in the country. Some are getting them in the mid $20k range.
I guess I should go drive an Accord H.
How about if I put a Keep Tahoe Blue sticker on the bumper of the 400H?
:-)
I may try synthetic oil at my 10000 mile oil change to see if that changes the mileage.
Lexus recommends 30psi; max pressure shown on sidewall is 44psi. I keep mine at around 34psi, and get ~27MPG in mostly highway driving. I wonder how safe it is to increase the pressure a little more?
Total Miles Driven - 9941
Total Gallons Used - 371.81
MPG - 26.732
Since the weather has gotten colder (low 30's to high 40's) my gas mileage has dropped around 2 mpg.
This morning I had my 10,000 mile service and used Castrol Syntec SAE5W-30 motor oil. My service rep advised me to buy the oil at an auto parts store which saved me about $25. Total service cost with tax $126.07.
Will report back after a few tank fulls as to any change in mileage.
I, too, am VERY frustrated by my 400h only getting 22.5 average mpg city driving (now at 3,500 miles). As I see it, I am a victim of false advertising and plan to pursue with Lexus on that basis. As a Realtor, I paid more for the 400h vs RX330 to get the better city mileage ("posted" 31 mpg City driving). Have you addressed this with your Lexus dealer? If so, what was their response/position?
Thanks for anything you can share that might help me.
I posted here months ago that I was getting only around 20 mpg. I was advised that I was driving the wrong way, taking too many short trips, etc. Well, of late my highway driving has gone way up, and my mileage has improved slightly. I also stopped buying 92 Octane, and am now getting nearly 22 mpg. Still not acceptable, but I've fought with the dealer and with Lexus and the only options I seem to now have are to sue.
I've tried to make peace with it, but it's amazing to come here and read about people getting such higher mileage figures. I've tried going around town just barely pressing the accelerator and really trying to improve the mileage, and it makes only a slight difference, so I've reverted to just driving normally, by and large.
If you have any luck pursuing Lexus I would be surprised, but would love to hear about it. I think what we need is a class action suit, much as I am surprised to hear myself say that.
Richard
I'm also getting only 22 miles per. I've contacted Lexus and they told me to contact my dealer I did that and they said contact Lexus. I think this is called the run around. I'm a Real Estate Appraiser and I bought the 400h for the same reason you did.
I'm currently speaking with a lawyer about a class action suit against Lexus. Let me know if you our interested and if you know others who maybe.
Hmmm, unfortunately, the window sticker is pretty clear about "your mileage may vary" and "for comparison purposes only" with reference to MPG estimates. One has to drive for better MPG with the hybrids (or any car). Drive it hard, or for short trips, and it will get about the MPG you describe.
Best of luck on your endeavours...
When I purchased my 400h I fully understood that EPA estimated mileage were notoriously inaccurate. I compare my actual mpg to the RX330 and am quite satisfied with the increase.
A class action lawsuit will take years and even if you win the result to you will be negligible.
Your message erroneously and rather snidely assumes that some of us made purchases expecting to actually get EPA mileage, no matter how we drove. I submit that most people don't get to the point of being able to afford an RX400h by not being pretty savvy purchasers, whether it's of vehicles or other products or services.
The fact is that Consumer Reports has now stated that hybrids are getting a much LOWER percentage of the stated EPA mileage than are conventional vehicles. The fact is that the EPA has publicly talked about changing it's methods. And the fact is, that when I took my RX400h in for servicing, both times the service writer acknowledged LOTS of complaints from owners that their mileage was hovering around 20. The first time I took mine in, at the request of Lexus corporate, the gauge showed 19.5, and the service writer said "Second one like that in two days," and basically said that Lexus Corporate has a major problem on their hands.
Now, is it their fault that the EPA sticker is so inaccurate, especially for city driving? Probably not, but in my experience not one person when I was contemplating or actually buying the vehicle said anything to warn me that my mileage not only "might vary," by the usual percentage, but would in all probability vary by almost 50% from the overall and even more from the city mpg.
May I remind you what the sticker, in actuality, says, as I've got mine right here. "Results reported to EPA indicate that the majority of vehicles with these estimates will achieve between 26 and 36 mpg in the city and between 22 and 32 mpg on the highway."
I submit that almost no vehicles are achieving 26 or better, and certainly none are getting 36 in the city. Everybody reports better highway than city mileage, so the sticker is plain wrong, and Lexus knows this, and has a duty to warn all potential buyers. They didn't warn me, and I was delighted to buy a vehicle that suited my driving habits so well, as I do most of my driving in city conditions.
Richard
Actually the EPA only tests about 15% of the vehicles on the market. They leave the testing to the manufacturers on most vehicles. I tried to get an answer from the EPA on who tested the hybrids and was told that they have no way of knowing. In other words they don't want to be held responsible for erroneous information.
I do agree that any kind of lawsuit would be money down the toilet. Those that are not happy with the mileage should just enjoy the car for 3 years and trade it in on a non hybrid. It is not like anyone that can afford an RX400h cannot afford the gas.
Just hit 4,000 miles today - roughly 10% city, 90% highway, albeit the highway driving is in So Cal during rush hour
total avg mpg is 28.6 with a low of 26.6 and a high of 30.7
Clearly you need to very conscience about all driving habits to achieve the higher mileage
I have owned 2 rx300s and 1 rx 330, there has been a significant improvement over previous models, particularly in acceleration performance.
Now the good part. The car so far has been a pleasure to drive. Definitely more powerful than the RX330 and it handles much better. But with the same smooth ride. Nice balance of power and luxury. So far so good...
I called the Lexus hot-line to ask about it. They suggest I take it into the shop (appointment next Saturday). Lexus inferred this is not normal.
If there isn't anything wrong per the dealership, Lexus asked me to call them back. I hope they make it right.
To see your dealer saying to consider 17mpg "good," is disappointing to say the least. I'll post the dealers response too.
I just want the vibration/shaking taken care of so that my teeth aren't like a baby rattle at 37-44mph.
Good luck-keep us posted.
Under 1000 miles still and we're getting 19.5 city! Hey, if you can't win the low end, win the high one! Real city driving, most trips are very short (10 minutes max). Whether I accelerate hard or soft, the mileage doesn't change much. Gas engine kicks in (..and WOW what a kick) all the time, like someone else described. Any acceleration and the gas engine icon flares.
I drove on the highway once pretty hard and got much better mileage, like 23.5, at >60 speeds.
We are using high octane since the vehicle is new, will likely switch soon at these prices! So the mileage gets worse with lower octanes? Accounting for a 1 MPH decrease, I calculate that you'd save no money buying regular vs. premium then. However, I guess AC would cost less to run.
I am basing this on the navigation system estimates! Not real math. I'll pay attention to the real life fill up vs. miles numbers now. Perhaps the biggest defect is the navigator estimator??? The hybrid seems to run completely fine, I can't imagine it isn't helping. And we do run the AC. I assumed that was hybrid powered...guess not.
I also see a mention of a 5-minute "warm up" period. If we drive the car for 7 minutes, that would explain the lousy mileage. Does it make any sense to turn the car on and let it warm up??? Or is the only way to break it in to drive the gas engine for 5 minutes?
Also, how does it make sense that the gas motor kicks in easier with high octane gas BUT gets lower mileage? Those two things seem opposite of one another.
Not a stop 'n go driver.... disappointed with this mileage.
Also NAV report of avg MPG is always about .05-1.5 mpg better than doing it manually.
Not as good as advertised!
Returning to the City from Connecticut, where speed is 65 MPH, we see mileage rise noticeably once speed drops below 60 MPH. I'm tempted to drive the whole route at 55 MPH sometime to see what mileage we get.
Overall, great car.
I live in south Florida, so use the air conditioner almost all of the time. I try to avoid heavy acceleration, but hard to resist at times, and almost have to do it on my morning merge onto 95.
I am satisfied with the mileage and save in another way also. Since I can now drive in the HOV lane I can get where I am going sooner.
But if I drove the way my wife does, I know the mileage would be much worse. She thinks the word "coast" only refers to where water meets land and drive with her foot either on the accelerator or on the brake.
I'll keep you posted and let you know when my wife has driven it a bit--she usually does worse on gas than I do.
All in all, we're very happy with the vehicle so far. It is extremely comfortable, smooth to drive, and in a small way, we feel like we're doing something better for the environment and our oil dependency. I'm confident the mileage will improve as we figure out how to maximize it and the car breaks in.
Other than gentle acceleration, reduced speed, and maximizing coasting... what are others doing to get their mileage up into the high 20 MPG range? Also, what's the concensus on 89 vs. 92 octane fuel??
Thanks!
19.25 MPG. UGH! Running 87 now, will report. And then doing a highway-only test this weekend.
Kickass performance, though. But no way I'll save any money on gas with this car.
18.4 MPG. Probably about the same as the high octane tank when you consider I had some highway driving mix in to get 19.25.