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Subaru's fortunes sinking - can they turn it around?
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Canada probably has a higher percentage. In northern US states we tend to see 5-7%, places like Vermont, Montana, Washington, Alaska, plus Colorado.
Florida is slightly less.
Subaru Crew member yellowbikedon owns both the Subies in Florida.
-juice
Basically, they would be doing a Ford move (the 500, and the wagon version (Freestyle) pretending to be an SUV).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Subaru would be wise to avoid whatever Ford is doing completely. If anything observe what not to do.
-juice
I don't know what sales figures or market share are north of the border, but my subjective impression is that there are a lot more Subes on the road here (even in Vancouver, where winters are mild) than there were a few years ago. The brand is ideal for Canadian winters.
I think Sube is sabotaging its potential in Canada by setting prices too high. Sube prices in Canadian dollars are still approximately 1.5x prices in the US. The increase in the Cdn$ against the US dollar over the past 2 years has not been factored in. MRSP for a WRX in Canada is still about $36,000 Cdn compared to $24K in the US. Meanwhile the US$ has fallen from $1.50 Cdn to $1.26. The Cdn$ has also risen against the Yen. Cdn prices should be lower.
At least you get the cool special editions that we often don't.
Alaska ain't much better, I think there is one dealer in the whole state and they don't budge much on price. Believe it or not people buy cars in the continental US and drive them up to Alaska.
-juice
IMO, the mistakes from Ford were nice but innocuous styling (the Passat look), the CVT, and a supposedly underpowered (not really based on numbers, but it is unrefined) 3.0 engine. That, and they coldn't keep up with the demand for the AWD version.
So, if Sube goes down this path, I doubt it will have boring styling (not if it resembles the B9!), no shortage of AWD, and the H6 already has 250 HP (although I would like to see the turbo engine from the Legacy too, with a 6 speed stick!)
And remember, Sube doesn't have to sell too many of them to be a success. Maybe they can mange Avalon numbers?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Forget Ford, just on its own merits, Legacy could afford to be bigger - it needs more shoulder and leg room in the back. "B9 Legacy" should be their next project. But first they should hurry that next-gen Impreza to market. Forget more new faces, get the revised model out there. Six years is too long.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Actually, I have to agree that Subaru should perhaps move away from the "world car" concept and make the Legacys and Outbacks a little bit larger than they already are. So a B9 Legacy with a Tribeca-sized wheelbase would work well here.
Based on ateixeira's comments concerning the other Japanese models, if Subaru IS going to go that right, it must be careful. The R1e looks like a great economy car - however, it will get heavy competition from the Echo, Scion xA, et al. The B11s roadster that they have over in Japan looks awesome, however where would you put pricing? It would need to be probably close to Tribeca numbers, and I'm only basing that on the Crossfire or the Ford Thunderbird MSRP, and would the U.S. take a Subie roadster seriously? :confuse:
I don't agree with that. The Legacy and Outback should remain about the same size that they are. I do agree, however that Subaru needs a larger sedan (longer & wider), and building it off the B9 platform is the logical thing to do.
Bob
The greatest salesman I ever saw was a guy who sold men's clothing at a department store in the town in which I lived many years ago.
One day a woman came in to purchase a suit in which to bury her newly deceased husband.
He sold her an extra pair of pants . . .
So a large car would have unique challenges. And yes, Subaru would tend to address the shortages of the Five Hundred, but by the time they could build one Ford would have put the 3.5l Duratec in there and probably added AWD production.
R1e is tiny, much smaller than the xA. Even the bigger R2 is probably a bit smaller than an xA. I think these are probably too small to succeed in the US.
Honestly a 3 door Impreza with a 2l engine would probably fit the entry-level bill, if Subaru is even interested in that not-so-profitable segment.
-juice
This is exactly what I was talking about above, how they withhold the best stuff from the US market, their single biggest market.
This is just plain frustrating. Here is something they can easily address and they just choose not to. What gives?
The real obstacle for Subaru's success is their own decision to treat the US as a second class customer. I honestly don't get it.
-juice
Bob
Ugh.
-juice
Bob
I'd pick that over one-touch up/down windows and HIDs and other stuff people are asking for.
Let's be practical, you don't want to back up into something and do $700 worth of damage. I can hold a power window button just fine. I don't even need auto down for the driver any more since tolls nowadays are paid automatically.
-juice
If Subaru aims to sell 35k per year and Saab another 15k, that would mean the production line would be building about 50k vehicles per year.
How much volume was the Rodeo/Axiom doing the last couple of years? Seems like they should be able to pick up that slack.
-juice
Isuzu Rodeo 251 1,042 1,933 7,736
Isuzu Axiom 139 238 956 1,601
9337 for the first 5 months of 2004, before sales slowed dramatically, so it shouldn't be too hard for the Tribeca and 9-6x to exceed those numbers. The Tribeca should manage that alone.
Of course it probably has to, as Isuzu was bleeding red ink long ago.
-juice
Subaru on Marketplace
It's plays on real player - just click exit when it asks for your e-mail address. It should play.
-Brian
And he points out that phonetically the B9 Tribeca is the "benign Tribeca", LOL.
So, to the "experts", Subaru is still the crunchy granola brand that appeals to teachers, nurses, and kayakers. Funny that "performance" or sport" is not mentioned anywhere there. Funny also that it reminded me why I like Subaru so much and bought one before - "it is for people that don't want the same thing as everyone else in America has" while "remaining focused on the engineering" (Dan Neill's words, not mine).
Maybe if Subaru watches its costs carefully, it can remain a successful niche brand even if it gradually loses market share. It just has to hang onto those teachers and nurses. And keep enough "crunchy granola" in the product mix.
If GM rebates the Saabeca down to the same price as the real thing is selling for, I think I might go picket Saab dealers and send the customers over to the Subaru store...
:mad:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
another 5 for bigger sedan.
Bob
NPR doesn't allow advertising (they're a non-profit). However, Subaru has been an underwriter in the past. Not sure if they still are. NPR has been doing quite a few reports on the automive industry. Click and Clack are big Subaru fans. I'm sure Soob corporate didn't need to pull any strings.
"the most annoying part of SoA is the slowness." - Sweet_Subie
I thought Subaru was supposed to be nimble and quick to respond to the market?
rob: nice find. Too bad it was too short, not in-depth enough.
I agree with most of what Dan Neil said. The exception is when he jokes about the B9 name, saying "Benign", and then proceeds to say "set your watch, see how long the Tribeca part lasts".
He's just plain wrong about that, in fact people have dropped the B9 portion (just as the radio host did) and just calls it the Tribeca.
I agree about Subaru being engineering driven and the brand having a strong identity, and this is largely the thrust behind my wanted them to remain that way.
-juice
Subaru of America is different, that's the US distributing arm of Subaru. They struggle to get the best products from Subaru, the parent company. Perhaps it's the prohibitive costs of certifying these special cars given the relatively low volume they do in this market, but this is indeed frustrating for fans of the brand living in the US.
It's an important distinction.
-juice
What did you expect - a 30 minute insider conversation on Subaru and their marketing and product development? Marketplace is a general business show designed to recap the day's market events, business news and typically one feature like the Subaru piece.
The most important thing I heard is that Subaru knows who it's target is and has honed itself towards that target. They compared Subaru to what Saab used to be before it lost it's way. Now Subaru must feel that it know what it's doing - my concern is that as the current loyalists die off, will there be enough new buyers in that target to replace them?
As I said, it's a general business show - none of their stories are in depth. It's a recap of the day's events and little brain candy.
I listen just about every night on my commute home.
I think so.
Back in '98 it was different. The WRX came along and brought a lot of younger people from many different brands, people that were focused on performance. The Legacy GT has done the same, from what I've observed.
Forester owners traded in Loyales. WRX owners traded in Eclipses.
It was funny because a lot of old school Subaru Crew members, pre-turbo era, felt the group got watered down a bit. A few members complained to me about that.
Perhaps these are growing pains. To grow in sales they had to appeal to folks outside the traditional demographic. So this already started to happen in 2002.
-juice
Bob
Are you SURE the problem is that Subaru Japan won't give SoA the best and/or latest?
From what I thought I knew about the relationship, the marketing gurus (an oxymoron if I ever heard one!) at SoA order from Subaru Japan what they think will sell the best or produce the biggest profit margins over here. So the blame for the goodies we don't get lies over here rather than over there.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Who knows the real truth, probably only a few execs.
Subaru has to realize the value of offering Halo cars here, I'm sure the STi got them millions in marketing value due to repeated comparison tests and the cult car status it has earned.
A hot Legacy is the next logical step. Once again we sit on the sidelines as our counterparts in Japan choose between recent STi, Blitzen, and Spec B models.
-juice
No, but you will!! That's why Subaru needs a Legacy XXL with plush velour seats, digital instrumention, and a cargo area big enough for your Rascal!!
Outback worked, so we now have 3 engine options, VDC, and by far the most variety in that particular model.
The Legacy doens't get nearly as much attention, just 2 engines, no VDC, no real flagship.
Turbos worked, so after the WRX came the STi, the Forester XT, the Baja Turbo, the Legacy GT, and the Outback XT.
If the Tribeca succeeds, we might see other larger vehicles.
-juice
AFTER 5 MORE YEARS, WE WILL GET A LARGE SEDAN, 8 MORE YEARS WE WILL GET A HYBRID, 10 MORE YEARS WE WILL GET A MINIVAN. I WILL BE OLD BY THEN TO DRIVE A MINIVAN, PERFECT TIMING, SUBARU (OH, SOA!)
It'll take 3-4 years at most. LOL
But Japan will get an STi version, short and long wheelbase, that costs less, with a backup camera and HID lights standard. For the Forester and Tribeca. And the van. All with hybrid options.
*shrug*
Time line? If I had to guess, the Legacy and Outback are still new, the Forester just got refreshed. Impreza gets a face-lift so I'm guessing the product cycle will match with the Forester from now on, i.e. a 1 year delay. That would mean:
06 Tribeca
06 Forester refresh
06 Impreza refresh
08 new Forester
08 new Impreza
08 Legacy/Outback refresh
That leaves 07, and I predict that's when we will see the Impreza-based people mover and perhaps a large sedan?
They'll be busy for a while so any minivan or LWB Tribeca would probably have to wait until 09.
-juice
So '07 makes the most sense to me, and I bet it will take the '06 Impreza approach, but with perhaps a chrome center grille surround, to make it appear more upscale than the Impreza. Also, I'm not aware of Subaru offering anything else new for '07, so the Legacy and Outback would get max-marketing efforts.
Bob
So it could look like this:
06 Tribeca
06 Forester refresh
06 Impreza refresh
07 new Impreza-based people mover (like Mazda5?)
07 Legacy Outback refresh
08 new Forester
08 new Impreza
That keeps them pretty busy. I'm not sure when a large sedan or minivan would get squeezed in. Hopefully less than 10 years though.
-juice
Bob