I'm not sure that a "clean slate" is key. However I fully agree with you that matching and bettering the competition is the key. If Subaru can do that then it has a future.
I feel that my 2005 OB XT LTD wagon is better than my former Volvo and Audi and very close to my BMW328i. Subie's quality surpasses all three. Even the BMW had a rattle and repairs in only two years of ownership. All three cars required numerous returns to the dealer which always entailed a week wait to get an appointment. The first year with my Subaru and it has been bulletproof. I think the Germans and Volvo (Ford) are going to choke on quality issues. Those black circles in Consumer Report Magazine are scary and those guys have them.
I may be just a cheerleader but I have a feeling. Subaru will be alright.
I'm not sure that a "clean slate" is key. However I fully agree with you that matching and bettering the competition is the key. If Subaru can do that then it has a future.
Well the only 3 companies that I know that have successfully been able to go "upscale" did so with 3 new nameplates. They knew it would be very difficult to get people to pay $30K (at the time) for a Honda, Toyota, or Nissan. They realized their brands were not capable of doing it.
Can Subaru go upscale without a new brand? It's possible I guess. But IMHO, it's going to take the better part of a generation do so. It'll be an evolutionary change over the course of 10-15-20 years.
I'm interested in the Toyota partnership. What's the story? Does it replace the GM partnership? Does it bode well for Subaru?
GM sold it's stake in Fuji and Toyota bought almost all of it.
Here's how it's played out thus far:
Why did GM sell? GM needed the cash. It got it. Also, Subaru and GM didn't see eye to eye on how product should develop. Subaru refused to let GM use only part of their "DNA" (AWD and Boxer engine).
Why did Toyota step in? We discussed it with ideas ranging from helping to prop up Fuji's share price to Toyota needing plant space in the US which is available at SAI and engineers.
Toyota recently announced that it was letting Subaru handle the redesign of a sub-compact Toyota. Some saw that as a sign of trust in Subaru by Toyota and others saw it as a quick fix for Toyota's lack of engineers.
Is it good for Subaru? IMHO, yes. In any case, they need to partner with somebody because they really aren't big enough or possess the resources to survive as an independent company.
Off the top of my head, I think Volvo might be a good parallel. At one point, they were like the old Sube: basic, solid transportation, and a bit out of the mainstream (to say the least). Over time, they morphed into some sort of premium/near luxury brand (or whatever you would call them).
In any case, the cars are now a lot fancy and cost a whole bunch more, but they do have a different image.
key to Sube, though, is while they went upscale, they kept their traditional roots (Safety, good seats, etc). So basically, is Sube going premium by making nicer Subes for people who want a Sube but can afford 9and want) more goodies? Or are they going to abandon ship and try to go toe to toe with Lexus (Insert VW joke here).
Off the top of my head, I think Volvo might be a good parallel. At one point, they were like the old Sube: basic, solid transportation, and a bit out of the mainstream (to say the least). Over time, they morphed into some sort of premium/near luxury brand (or whatever you would call them).
Volvo has always been positioned as a premium brand. But they distinguished themselves through the emphasis on safety and always have been more expensive than the more pedestrian brands.
They are morphing into a premium brand with sporting intentions while maintaining their original focus on safety. This change has been happening for years and will take a few more years to be fully achieved.
I'll modify my thinking. From what I remember of the mid 70's and on, Volvos were always higher priced, premium placed, somewhat snobbish vehicles.
Where I grew up (Boston), Volvo owners were either well off or professors.
The models you mention are from the 40's, 50's, and 60's. So I stand by my statement that the change from run of the mill brand to premium brand takes decades - not years - if one is to parallel Subaru to Volvo.
And who owns Subarus now? Certainly not poor - they buy a Chevy. Mainstream? They buy also Chevys and Toyotas. $70K/year is median of their new car buyer, which I know is not so much in the North, but here in Tampa it is still a lot.
I would say that Subaru owners are usually above average, but somewhat cheapskates with very particular sense of value. They are willing to buy "stuff", but only when they believe it is worth the money and it is not beyond their means (not too much, anyway). They like BMW or Audi, but every time they pass a store and see stickers on new 3-series or A3/A4, they think "you must be kidding me".
Moving upscale with those people may be dangerous. If they let those people go, getting new ones may not be as easy - content, especially "what's inside" will not cut it. Otherwise, Phaeton would have been a huge hit. "Legacy" buyer (not the car, the type) does not like to have to explain why they bought it. It must be obvious. Now they would feel like they have to.
It took Volvo about 10 years to be considered somewhat premium; from the mid '60s – 'mid '70s. Subaru is already 2 – 3 years or so into this up-market switch. So I say in another 7 – 8 years they should be in pretty good shape. In 5 years they will be well on their way, I would think.
Also, while we may consider Volvo to be premium, it has never been considered (by most) to be premium in the same sense as BMW or Mercedes. So there is "premium," and then there is "premium."
That's very true. I'd bet the average Subie owner today shares many of the same core values of Subie owners 10 or 20 years ago, but I bet today's average Subie owner earns quite a bit more than their counterparts years back.
The question is whether or not FHI has the ability to survive those 7-8 years as they make the transition. Can they take 7-8 more years of what's been happening for the past 2-3? I don't think so. I mean, cutting Tribeca production by 50% is a serious body blow. The failure of the Baja was another. How many of those can a small company take before it's TKO time?
Toyota might bail them out. Or they might take what they want from FHI and scrap the rest.
I don't buy the argument that Subaru cannot go back to their roots. Most people don't even know Subaru is trying to go upscale. The buyers here wouldn't know the difference.
"And who owns Subarus now? Certainly not poor - they buy a Chevy. Mainstream? They buy also Chevys and Toyotas. $70K/year is median of their new car buyer, which I know is not so much in the North, but here in Tampa it is still a lot. I would say that Subaru owners are usually above average, but somewhat cheapskates with very particular sense of value."
I also get the idea that Subaru buyers tend to be better-educated than the buyers of most other brands even if you control for income. Subaru also has a higher percentage of female buyers than most others (apropos of which, Ford is rumored to be repositioning Mercury as a "chick car").
The difference between now and when Subaru was doing their "inexpensive and built to stay that way" thing, is that back then, Subaru didn't have the Koreans to contend with. I think for them to try and go back and be what they were years ago would be a huge mistake.
But what's wrong with staying mid market and differentiating themselves with AWD? That $20-$30K market is huge. There's nothing wrong with being a small company just as long as it's a profitable venture.
Bob's right about that, the pressure would be pretty intense. They have the luxury of very low costs, and no exchange rate issues like the Germans and Japanese.
However, Hyundai is moving up, at least to mainstream. They may even ditch the warranty, so we'll see.
The market is evolving. Think about this - what brand known for historical reliability/durability sits at the entry level today?
Noone. Hyundai is getting there, but by the time they do, they would have vacated the entry-level segment they currently dominate.
The Koreans ARE tough... but do you really think Lexus, MB, BMW, Infiniti, Volvo, Acura, Audi, and the rest are push-overs?
The mid-range of the market is competitive on price, functionality, content, safety, and a host of other attributes. Subaru can compete in a number of these areas.
The luxury or near luxury market is all of the above, but with a heavy dose of style and prestige added into the mix. Neither of those are things Subaru is known for.
So, based on what they've already accomplished with the brand, I'd say the middle market is where they have the best chance of competing.
Subie owners are also thought to be highly educated. I read somewhere that they have PHDs, Doctorates etc. The car has a bookish brand associated with it that appeals to them.
I've owned two Subarus so far. I looked at a new Outback in 2000, in 2005, and recently. The 2006 2.5i is a lot more refined than the 99 or 2000, but the price is little different.
Monday I'm ordering a 3.0R. They've done a much better job of packaging the product this year than previously.
The Tribeca is odd looking and will likely prove to have disappointing sales. I wish Subaru had used the H6 and drivetrain in a larger wagon instead.
I just bought a '05 Outback 3.0 R and will be picking it up tomorrow. I had tested 22 different cars. Everything from the Audi A4 Avant and A3 to the Hyundia Tucson. I went to every manufacture except GM, Ford, Chrysler and Mistubishi. After all that I chose the Outback....why??? Best damn car I have ever driven.
Not just the Koreans, but especially the Chinese and Brazilians (now being imported by ZAP! - check out the "Obvio") and who knows who else (Czech? French? Indonesian? Indian?) are soon to enter the entry-level market. Over 10 years, some of those brands will decide to add quality (obviously Hyundai's there) at costs the Japanese can't compete with, and some companies may get squeezed out of here (Suzuki? Mitsubishi?).
GM sold it's stake in Fuji and Toyota bought almost all of it.
Hey, sorry to pick nits, but GM held about 20% and Toyota bought just 8.7% - not almost all of it. The rest was sold on the open market, and there I believe FHI bought back all or most of the remaining 11.3%. This is good for Subaru because Toyota doesn't hold enough stock to control decisions, ensuring this will be more of a true, cooperative partnership. (I still can't believe GM nixed production of the Subaru roadster concept - B9 Scramber - and then introduced the Solstice. Grr. I bet they were both at about the same stage of development at the time.)
In addition to the reasons you mentioned, I also think Toyota bought into FHI to get at the head of the line for Fuji's superior battery technology to use in its hybrids - something that's in very short supply for Toyota (and everyone else) right now. It's Lamilon, a joint venture between FHI and NEC, that developed these battery breakthroughs in cost, longevity and quick charging. Hopefully working with Toyota will allow Subaru to bring this technology to market sooner.
dino - I think you got it right when you said Subaru owners have a very particular sense of value. We go for build quality, durability and practicality over flashy gadgets and sexy lines. That doesn't mean we don't also like technology and good looks, but just that they're not at the top of the list. I think Subaru's testing this theory now with the '05 Legacy and now B9 Tribeca - as long as the core values are still intact underneath the new image, I think traditional Subie buyers will remain loyal.
You may recall, around the time of the B9 Tribeca's rollout, Subaru literally defined their target market as "inspired pragmatists." That works for me.
Just wanted to apologize for six (edit: now seven - see below) posts in a row. It's great if you're building a fence, but not so hot when trying to follow separate threads.
Very late night at work, couldn't sleep when I got home, needed to catch my online Subie fix anyway, so here I am, posting alone in the wee hours. Hey Bob & Juice, do you think Edmunds would give us a small stipend to get a buzzing and flickering neon "OPEN" sign, some old cigarette butts and burnt coffee to have in the Subaru Crew Cafe for times like this? Oh, and we'd need a quarter from Edmunds for the one-song jukebox, too, just to complement the ambiance with the appropriate music.
Hey, I just realized we don't have to get the cigarette butts from Edmunds, we just need to ask around the B9 Tribeca forum, since Subaru didn't include an ashtray. And hey, we could probably get that jukebox quarter from them, too, since there's no coinholder in Tribeca, either.
Precisely. It's a different world marketplace today than it was 5 or 10 years ago. What worked for Subaru back then is no guarantee that it will work again today.
Amen to that. Subu/Mitsu/Isuzu/Suzu all build fine vehicles but are getting crowded out by the Koreans in the US market. But these Japanese lines will prosper as the global small car market will boom in the next 10 years. Watch. The Chinese and Indians will start buying cars big time now that the global economy and it's money reaches them. (No more bicycle and cow jockeying).
I ended up getting the 3.0 R sedan. It was between that and the VDC....I loved the leather in the VDC but I could not stand looking at the 'wood' top of the steering wheel.
Awesome car. Way better then the Lexus IS300 I used to own
What's up with that? They consistenlty rate vehicles low on quality and customer satisfaction, now even buying process is also at bottom of the industry? :confuse:
It almost looks like a parallel universe to me - the two local Subaru dealers (in Tampa) I had contact with are very good both during buying and in service.
I don't suspect any conspiracy, but it looks to me like a there is probably huge "standard deviation", which means there must be some very miserable dealers out there.
About cars - I don't get that, either. How CR can rate them high on reliability and JD Power gives them mediocre ratings on quality. Same with product satisfaction, especially WRX: I know there are some critics of the car, but the owners are usually fanatics of their car, so why JD gives it such low owner satisfaction ratings :sick: ? I just don't get it. Anybody cares to explain (other than anti-Subaru conspiracy, of course ) ?
Dealers: Patti was doing a great job in Customer Service and brought up those numbers gradually, but now she's left and they're slowly sinking back down.
Subaru has never been above average in the Dealer scores, and around average in Initial Quality. But they pop up and do well in the Dependability scores, that measure longevity.
It's all how you measure, CR named Subaru the most reliable brand for MY2004, while JD Power IQ scores were below average. Go figure.
Another odd observation, JDP's APEAL study put the Aztek on a pedestal year after year, so according to them owners (probably only owners) loved them.
The dealers are yet another obstacle. Again, I'll draw a parallel to VW, known for horrible customer service. Phaeton shoppers were probably cringing every time they had to visit a dealer for service.
manifold: absolutely, Subaru owners could generally afford to pay more for a car, but they just choose not to. Ironically, when offered cars that do cost more, they decline and stick with the value-priced Subarus.
They are also well educated, like you said. If you look at the demographics, a much higher % have college and even post-grad degrees than most mainstream brands. I had some number from 1999 or so, but that data is a bit outdated now.
You win the highly coveted Edmunds "Bronze Fiblagee Award with Oak Leave Clusters" for most posts per wee hours of the night.
WooHoo! I'd like to thank the Academy, my friends, family, and most of all my mentor, without whom I wouldn't be here tonight to receive this honor. And what's a "Fiblagee" anyway?
The dealers are yet another obstacle. Again, I'll draw a parallel to VW, known for horrible customer service. Phaeton shoppers were probably cringing every time they had to visit a dealer for service.
IIRC not every VW dealer was authorized for Phaeton sales and service so perhaps the service end wasn't a horror show.
between VW and Subaru. The diff? Once you buy the car, you never see the Sube dealer again, but you get to be on a first name basis with VW!
I know, service and sales aren't the same entity. But, I have been treated just fine in the sales end (of both), and the last Sube I owned (granted, a 1992) was the only new car that I woned for any period of time that never went back to the dealer once for any worranty stuff, and I am very picky, and couldn't sind anything making the trip worthwhile.
I expect if I get the deal to work on the new Legacy that I won't be making many trips back with this one. Maybe the first oil change, before I start doing them locally.
Well, I know the local Subie dealer purchased a new lot and built a significantly upgraded facility (two doors down from the original lot). And as I was trucking up North a few weeks back, I passed another getting a refresh. It's possible Subaru has allocated some funds to refresh their dealer network.
It would make sense if they were focusing on areas where their market share is very low. But it has been a long time since I've seen a completely new dealership here in the North East.
The dealer where I bought my Forester last month sells Chryslers and Jeeps as well as Subarus. They just finished a second showroom, across a driveway from the original one, that'll be just for Subarus. It looks to be almost as large as the Chrysler/Jeep one.
Hey Prosa, the dealer I went to today is also Jeep/Chrysler/SUbe, in a building barely big enough for one of them. Must be a different place, since they weren't building a new showroom that I noticed!
the other local dealer (south Jersey) is a sorta combo Ford/Sube place, but they have stand alone showrooms sharing a parking lot.
Nice thing (for my convenience) is that I was told that a Sube dealer is going in on rt. 70, in the old MB building (they just built a palace down the road), oddly across the street from where a store used to be (Sube eliminated to give room to Kia, yuck).
They should have one in that location, since it is about 1 mile from SoA corporate headquaters (and 3-4 from my office)!
My local Subaru dealer (central AR) is housed with an Acura dealership in kind of a transitionary area between upscale retail/VERY upscale suburban residential. Nice, new buildings only a few years old, separate showrooms for each mark, each large enough for 3-4 cars and a couple of desks. Not huge by any means, but not tiny.
The owner (a Rockefeller, if I'm not mistaken)also owns a Mercedes dealership in the area under the same moniker (Riverside), so by all appearances the local marketing scheme has Subaru postitioned slightly upscale, while still a relative value and character-filled alternative to the vehicles they are sold alongside.
This is quite different than where I remember my parents buying their Subes 15-20 years ago (still the same area), on a dirty, car-lot dotted service road outside the city limits, housed with Izusus and other bargain imports of that era.
The whole industry is putting pressure for dealers to have one-make showrooms. It's kind of silly, because I've seen back-to-back dealers that share the same building, but have seperate entrances.
Fitz in Gaithersburg is this way, Subaru on one side, Toyota on the other. In Rockville they have a Subaru-only showroom, then Hyundai-Dodge in the other building. But they all share a service bay.
I guess they want dealers to establish the brand identity, but for customers the idea of an auto mall with many choices is probably more appealing.
I read that Toyota's plants in the US were operating at 107% capacity. I think that means lots of overtime and more cars than they'd estimated could be produced, I dunno.
Reminds me of Spinal Tap. This one goes to 11.
From that story:
Earlier reports have suggested that Toyota might produce hybrid vehicles at the Fuji plant
That would be great. I'm sure SIA could secure a steady supply of the NEC-Lamilion batteries from FHI headquarters, which is what Toyota has been wanting all along. Basically they'd already be familiar with the main suppliers.
Subaru / Toyota build cars in the US. So does GM. Are the UAW contracts with Subaru / Toyota so much diffferent that it creates an advantage for Sub and Toyo. In other words does it cost GM more to build here than Sub and / or Toyo?
Comments
I feel that my 2005 OB XT LTD wagon is better than my former Volvo and Audi and very close to my BMW328i. Subie's quality surpasses all three. Even the BMW had a rattle and repairs in only two years of ownership. All three cars required numerous returns to the dealer which always entailed a week wait to get an appointment. The first year with my Subaru and it has been bulletproof. I think the Germans and Volvo (Ford) are going to choke on quality issues. Those black circles in Consumer Report Magazine are scary and those guys have them.
I may be just a cheerleader but I have a feeling. Subaru will be alright.
Thanks,
Bob
Well the only 3 companies that I know that have successfully been able to go "upscale" did so with 3 new nameplates. They knew it would be very difficult to get people to pay $30K (at the time) for a Honda, Toyota, or Nissan. They realized their brands were not capable of doing it.
Can Subaru go upscale without a new brand? It's possible I guess. But IMHO, it's going to take the better part of a generation do so. It'll be an evolutionary change over the course of 10-15-20 years.
GM sold it's stake in Fuji and Toyota bought almost all of it.
Here's how it's played out thus far:
Why did GM sell? GM needed the cash. It got it. Also, Subaru and GM didn't see eye to eye on how product should develop. Subaru refused to let GM use only part of their "DNA" (AWD and Boxer engine).
Why did Toyota step in? We discussed it with ideas ranging from helping to prop up Fuji's share price to Toyota needing plant space in the US which is available at SAI and engineers.
Toyota recently announced that it was letting Subaru handle the redesign of a sub-compact Toyota. Some saw that as a sign of trust in Subaru by Toyota and others saw it as a quick fix for Toyota's lack of engineers.
Is it good for Subaru? IMHO, yes. In any case, they need to partner with somebody because they really aren't big enough or possess the resources to survive as an independent company.
Off the top of my head, I think Volvo might be a good parallel. At one point, they were like the old Sube: basic, solid transportation, and a bit out of the mainstream (to say the least). Over time, they morphed into some sort of premium/near luxury brand (or whatever you would call them).
In any case, the cars are now a lot fancy and cost a whole bunch more, but they do have a different image.
key to Sube, though, is while they went upscale, they kept their traditional roots (Safety, good seats, etc). So basically, is Sube going premium by making nicer Subes for people who want a Sube but can afford 9and want) more goodies? Or are they going to abandon ship and try to go toe to toe with Lexus (Insert VW joke here).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Volvo has always been positioned as a premium brand. But they distinguished themselves through the emphasis on safety and always have been more expensive than the more pedestrian brands.
They are morphing into a premium brand with sporting intentions while maintaining their original focus on safety. This change has been happening for years and will take a few more years to be fully achieved.
Bob
Not true. The Volvo P444/544/122 models were hardly premium. Rugged? Yes? Family-sized? Yes. Premium? No.
It took years for Volvo to evolve into the premium brand we know today.
Bob
Where I grew up (Boston), Volvo owners were either well off or professors.
The models you mention are from the 40's, 50's, and 60's. So I stand by my statement that the change from run of the mill brand to premium brand takes decades - not years - if one is to parallel Subaru to Volvo.
I would say that Subaru owners are usually above average, but somewhat cheapskates with very particular sense of value. They are willing to buy "stuff", but only when they believe it is worth the money and it is not beyond their means (not too much, anyway). They like BMW or Audi, but every time they pass a store and see stickers on new 3-series or A3/A4, they think "you must be kidding me".
Moving upscale with those people may be dangerous. If they let those people go, getting new ones may not be as easy - content, especially "what's inside" will not cut it. Otherwise, Phaeton would have been a huge hit. "Legacy" buyer (not the car, the type) does not like to have to explain why they bought it. It must be obvious. Now they would feel like they have to.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Also, while we may consider Volvo to be premium, it has never been considered (by most) to be premium in the same sense as BMW or Mercedes. So there is "premium," and then there is "premium."
Bob
Bob
Toyota might bail them out. Or they might take what they want from FHI and scrap the rest.
I don't buy the argument that Subaru cannot go back to their roots. Most people don't even know Subaru is trying to go upscale. The buyers here wouldn't know the difference.
I would say that Subaru owners are usually above average, but somewhat cheapskates with very particular sense of value."
I also get the idea that Subaru buyers tend to be better-educated than the buyers of most other brands even if you control for income. Subaru also has a higher percentage of female buyers than most others (apropos of which, Ford is rumored to be repositioning Mercury as a "chick car").
Bob
However, Hyundai is moving up, at least to mainstream. They may even ditch the warranty, so we'll see.
The market is evolving. Think about this - what brand known for historical reliability/durability sits at the entry level today?
Noone. Hyundai is getting there, but by the time they do, they would have vacated the entry-level segment they currently dominate.
-juice
The mid-range of the market is competitive on price, functionality, content, safety, and a host of other attributes. Subaru can compete in a number of these areas.
The luxury or near luxury market is all of the above, but with a heavy dose of style and prestige added into the mix. Neither of those are things Subaru is known for.
So, based on what they've already accomplished with the brand, I'd say the middle market is where they have the best chance of competing.
Monday I'm ordering a 3.0R. They've done a much better job of packaging the product this year than previously.
The Tribeca is odd looking and will likely prove to have disappointing sales. I wish Subaru had used the H6 and drivetrain in a larger wagon instead.
Hey, sorry to pick nits, but GM held about 20% and Toyota bought just 8.7% - not almost all of it.
In addition to the reasons you mentioned, I also think Toyota bought into FHI to get at the head of the line for Fuji's superior battery technology to use in its hybrids - something that's in very short supply for Toyota (and everyone else) right now. It's Lamilon, a joint venture between FHI and NEC, that developed these battery breakthroughs in cost, longevity and quick charging. Hopefully working with Toyota will allow Subaru to bring this technology to market sooner.
You may recall, around the time of the B9 Tribeca's rollout, Subaru literally defined their target market as "inspired pragmatists." That works for me.
Very late night at work, couldn't sleep when I got home, needed to catch my online Subie fix anyway, so here I am, posting alone in the wee hours. Hey Bob & Juice, do you think Edmunds would give us a small stipend to get a buzzing and flickering neon "OPEN" sign, some old cigarette butts and burnt coffee to have in the Subaru Crew Cafe for times like this? Oh, and we'd need a quarter from Edmunds for the one-song jukebox, too, just to complement the ambiance with the appropriate music.
"Aaall byyy myyy se-he-helf, don' wanna be... aaall byyy myyy..."
Hey, I just realized we don't have to get the cigarette butts from Edmunds, we just need to ask around the B9 Tribeca forum, since Subaru didn't include an ashtray. And hey, we could probably get that jukebox quarter from them, too, since there's no coinholder in Tribeca, either.
Oh boy, I've really gotta catch some shut-eye.
Bob
Bob
Well you did!! I thought the GM stake was 10% - I clearly recall the appx 8% that Toyota bought.
Subu will stick it out.
I ended up getting the 3.0 R sedan. It was between that and the VDC....I loved the leather in the VDC but I could not stand looking at the 'wood' top of the steering wheel.
Awesome car. Way better then the Lexus IS300 I used to own
It almost looks like a parallel universe to me - the two local Subaru dealers (in Tampa) I had contact with are very good both during buying and in service.
I don't suspect any conspiracy, but it looks to me like a there is probably huge "standard deviation", which means there must be some very miserable dealers out there.
About cars - I don't get that, either. How CR can rate them high on reliability and JD Power gives them mediocre ratings on quality. Same with product satisfaction, especially WRX: I know there are some critics of the car, but the owners are usually fanatics of their car, so why JD gives it such low owner satisfaction ratings :sick: ? I just don't get it. Anybody cares to explain (other than anti-Subaru conspiracy, of course
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Bob
Dealers: Patti was doing a great job in Customer Service and brought up those numbers gradually, but now she's left and they're slowly sinking back down.
Subaru has never been above average in the Dealer scores, and around average in Initial Quality. But they pop up and do well in the Dependability scores, that measure longevity.
It's all how you measure, CR named Subaru the most reliable brand for MY2004, while JD Power IQ scores were below average. Go figure.
Another odd observation, JDP's APEAL study put the Aztek on a pedestal year after year, so according to them owners (probably only owners) loved them.
The dealers are yet another obstacle. Again, I'll draw a parallel to VW, known for horrible customer service. Phaeton shoppers were probably cringing every time they had to visit a dealer for service.
manifold: absolutely, Subaru owners could generally afford to pay more for a car, but they just choose not to. Ironically, when offered cars that do cost more, they decline and stick with the value-priced Subarus.
They are also well educated, like you said. If you look at the demographics, a much higher % have college and even post-grad degrees than most mainstream brands. I had some number from 1999 or so, but that data is a bit outdated now.
-juice
WooHoo! I'd like to thank the Academy, my friends, family, and most of all my mentor, without whom I wouldn't be here tonight to receive this honor. And what's a "Fiblagee" anyway?
IIRC not every VW dealer was authorized for Phaeton sales and service so perhaps the service end wasn't a horror show.
I know, service and sales aren't the same entity. But, I have been treated just fine in the sales end (of both), and the last Sube I owned (granted, a 1992) was the only new car that I woned for any period of time that never went back to the dealer once for any worranty stuff, and I am very picky, and couldn't sind anything making the trip worthwhile.
I expect if I get the deal to work on the new Legacy that I won't be making many trips back with this one. Maybe the first oil change, before I start doing them locally.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
So I guess it matters a whole lot less (vs. VW). But still, they need to keep working on their dealer network.
-juice
It would make sense if they were focusing on areas where their market share is very low. But it has been a long time since I've seen a completely new dealership here in the North East.
Nice car!
the other local dealer (south Jersey) is a sorta combo Ford/Sube place, but they have stand alone showrooms sharing a parking lot.
Nice thing (for my convenience) is that I was told that a Sube dealer is going in on rt. 70, in the old MB building (they just built a palace down the road), oddly across the street from where a store used to be (Sube eliminated to give room to Kia, yuck).
They should have one in that location, since it is about 1 mile from SoA corporate headquaters (and 3-4 from my office)!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The owner (a Rockefeller, if I'm not mistaken)also owns a Mercedes dealership in the area under the same moniker (Riverside), so by all appearances the local marketing scheme has Subaru postitioned slightly upscale, while still a relative value and character-filled alternative to the vehicles they are sold alongside.
This is quite different than where I remember my parents buying their Subes 15-20 years ago (still the same area), on a dirty, car-lot dotted service road outside the city limits, housed with Izusus and other bargain imports of that era.
Doug
Fitz in Gaithersburg is this way, Subaru on one side, Toyota on the other. In Rockville they have a Subaru-only showroom, then Hyundai-Dodge in the other building. But they all share a service bay.
I guess they want dealers to establish the brand identity, but for customers the idea of an auto mall with many choices is probably more appealing.
-juice
Reminds me of Spinal Tap. This one goes to 11.
From that story:
Earlier reports have suggested that Toyota might produce hybrid vehicles at the Fuji plant
That would be great. I'm sure SIA could secure a steady supply of the NEC-Lamilion batteries from FHI headquarters, which is what Toyota has been wanting all along. Basically they'd already be familiar with the main suppliers.
-juice