Check your service record book (the one they need to emboss when they do any work) in the first few pages is the dealer prep check list. These pages are multi-copy (dealer takes yellow copy) and need to be embossed after checking all items done. The ILP is one of the items, if the dealer did not do it, they can be held Liable if something was to happen to your vehicle.
Right you are, Odie. My service record book shows what they did for dealer prep and "Do idle learn procedure" is one of the checked items.
Since ILP is done by dealers as part of dealer prep, why is there so much chatter in this forum about do it yourself ILP performed by owners? Is having it done once not good enough?
I'm averaging the EPA city rating (17mpg), though my driving is at least 50% highway. Based on EPA ratings of 17city/22highway, I was hoping to average about 20mpg for mixed driving.
My Pilot replaced a 2004 Odyssey, which fell far short of my mpg expectations. Gas mileage is about the same, the Pilot being worse but not by much. I don't think my relatively poor mpg with these large Hondas is attributable to my doing anything wrong (i.e., I check and adjust my tire pressure on a monthly basis, I accelerate smoothly, etc.). I never had a car or small SUV, be it a Honda or other make, that didn't return EPA or better. Only the Odyssey and the Pilot have disappopinted me when it comes to mpg.
Isn't ILP something that should have been done by our dealers as part of dealer prep on our Pilots?
Yes. It should have!
Is this a just for safety's sake sort of thing? Dealer should have done it, but no way to know for sure and can't hurt to do it for yourself even if it's been done before?
Only if you wish to eliminate one possible source of bad fuel economy.
I'd like to have the benefits of ILP, if any. But unless it's never been done to my vehicle, I'd rather not have to deal with all those nuisances associated with disconnecting the battery. I'm thinking about making an inquiry to my dealer to check if ILP is part of dealer prep and if they have a record of it having been done on my vehicle.
What are "all those nuisances associated with disconnecting the battery"? Some day that battery will go dead or be replaced. The ILP will need to be done. The "GUY" that installs the battery probably will not know how or will not take the time.
In the URL provided above, the ILP is clearly part of the dealer get ready procedure.
The only record they will have is a piece of paper with check marks by some "guy". Do you think the "guy" would leave a box unchecked if he was supposed to perform a function and did not? Especially a function that can not be verified?
Unlike tire pressure and whether or not the carpets were installed, there is no way of checking on whether or not the "Guy" did the ILP!
My Pilot replaced a 2004 Odyssey, which fell far short of my mpg expectations. Gas mileage is about the same, the Pilot being worse but not by much. I don't think my relatively poor mpg with these large Hondas is attributable to my doing anything wrong...
Was ILP done on the Odyssey? Did both vehicles come from the same dealer?
Only point I'm trying to make is don't be so trusting of dealerships and the folks that work there. Even if the dealer is truly striving for excellence and he is your Dad, only the "GUY" in "Get Ready" knows what was actually done to your car and what was not!
If I may be trustworthy to a fault, you seem to be at the opposite end of the spectrum. I have no reason not to trust my dealership.
I am not inclined to re-do a time-consuming and not so simple thing which already appears to have been done by the dealer. Yes, I am trusting that a check in the box beside ILP coupled with a signed certification means that it was done to my car as part of dealer prep. I see your point that I cannot know for sure, but I consider the odds to be extremely low that it was not actually done even though there is a written record indicating that it was done.
In my case, it is highly unlikely that some day the battery will go dead or need to be replaced. As I am leasing my Pilot for only 3 years, I do not exepct to have to replace the battery at some point. As for the battery going dead during my lease, that shouldn't happen unless I make a mistake (leaving a light on, a door ajar, etc.). I've only done something like that a few times in a lifetime, and only once or twice did the battery actually go dead.
Nuisances I can think of as being associated with disconnecting the battery are having to reactiviate and reprogram the regular radio and satellite radio, reset the clock, and probably some other things I'd only realize if it happened to me.
It just seems to me that ILP is a not so simple and not so quick process, which results in some inconveniences. Makes me think it's better to avoid doing it yourself so long as there's a record of it having already been done by the dealer.
I did get my former Ody and replacement Pilot at the same dealer. I was unaware of ILP as a potential mpg helper during my ownership of the Pilot, so I have no idea whether or not it was done by the dealer and now I have no way of checking. But again, I have no reason not to trust my dealer or suspect that their prep people avoid some work and save some time by checking off unconfirmable items without doing the work. They, even more so than we, should understand the importance of what they do.
I have assured that my car has had the ILP. I have also done a lot of research on this topic. The Best MPG most people can expect from a Pilot is 13-15 city, 15-17 mixed and, if you are lucky 20-22 on the highway. Those are true and honest numbers and not meant to knock the Pilot in any way. Not being able to achieve the stated MPG is something that owners of most all cars experience to one degree or another. To suggest that owners should expect inflated numbers raises false hopes and ultimately extreme frustration among all the people who, despite everything they have tried, can't get better. There are many who can't even get the numbers I have stated above, and to be honest, I don't get those numbers all the time either.
"The Best MPG most people can expect from a Pilot is 13-15 city, 15-17 mixed and, if you are lucky 20-22 on the highway. Those are true and honest numbers and not meant to knock the Pilot in any way."
Yup, my Pilot fits this bill, albeit at the high end of the mixed spectrum. Makes me feel better, even good, if what you say is true and reports in this forum of vastly higher mpg are untrue. I assume that you are talking about the 4WD Pilot. Obviously the FWD Pilot is somewhat better on gas than the 4WD Pilot as the FWD vehicle is lighter and the engine has VCM.
I have also done a lot of research on this topic.
What source(s) did you use for your research?
I have one other observation to make at this time. I noticed that my odometer is a little off, and happily in my favor. I know from my other vehicles over the years that the distance from my usual pump to my house is 3.1 miles. My Pilot thinks it's only 3.0 miles. My mileage could therefore be understated by as much as 3.2%. And if my mileage is understated, so too is my mpg. If I do the math by adjusting my mileage by 3.2%, my overall mpg goes from 17.14 to 17.69. Being that I lease my Pilot, I have no intention of getting my odometer recalibrated. I will do a comparison with my of my other cars on a much longer drive to get a better sense of how much my Pilot's odometer is actually understated.
... Makes me feel better, even good, if what you say is true and reports in this forum of vastly higher mpg are untrue...
Seems that you are not actually believing either of us. It makes you feel good that others are in your boat, if what they say is true.?? And what I've said is untrue! Yet you choose to believe some guy in the "Get Ready Dept." spent the extra time necessary to do this simple but necessary procedure correctly. He may have or may not have.
Is he a certified Honda technician, or simply an hourly guy that is going to hopefully do as the book says (Hopefully), then wash and vacuum the car.
As far as research is concerned: It is often easier to find research to back our way of thinking rather than trying something that might work, but may be a slight one time hassel. Try doing some more research and read the "Pilot Get Ready" info!
Reminds me of an overweight person,(me included), whom might say. "Well it is easier and more convenient to believe loosing weight is impossible because most don't succeed." I realize from fist hand knowledge that reading all those labels on the food packages and walking reasonable distances instead of driving is a nuisance.
In response to your other post replying to me. Yes I have been buying cars for 50+ years. This involves 60+/- cars. Most were new. Yes I have learned to not trust 100% most of the folks past the Service writing area on things that can not be verified. I've caught way too many lies. Oil filters that were not changed, tires that were not rotated, air pressure different on all 4 tires, and so forth. And those things are indeed verifiable. How many unverifiables were not done is impossible to know. Yet a piece of paper had those areas checked as done.
When you think about it, most dealers and their sales reps are trying to get into our pockets as deep as possible when we drive onto the lot. That is how they make a living. The more you spend, the more they make! The lies start there! In the service dept, the quicker they can finish a job, the more jobs they can do, and the more money they can make. Even the service writers will often try selling us something we don't need! They get some commissions also.
Am I paranoid? You betcha!!!
FWIW my 03 Pilot is 4wd and the engine hits on all 6 cylinders every time. That ILP could have been done in less time than writing these post.
I'm a Christian and will not knowingly be untruthful on these forums. The mileages I've posted came directly from the log that records every mile and every fill up on my cars.
We can continue to get poor fuel milesge and complain about it or we can try to do something about it. Our car, our driving habits, the gas we can/do purchase, our driving conditions may be such that we are going to get worse than average, period. Maybe not!
Seems that you are not actually believing either of us. It makes you feel good that others are in your boat, if what they say is true.?? And what I've said is untrue!
I'm not calling anyone a liar, least of all you. If anything, I tend to believe that your data is accurate because my mpg fits within your data. Yet others have reported mpg in the low to upper 20s and I had an impression that they seem to credit the much talked about ILP for this. Thus, my interest in ILP.
Yet you choose to believe some guy in the "Get Ready Dept." spent the extra time necessary to do this simple but necessary procedure correctly. He may have or may not have.
Yes, I believe that this person spent the time necessary to do his job properly. I have no reason to doubt it.
How many unverifiables were not done is impossible to know. Yet a piece of paper had those areas checked as done.
My paranoid mode clicks on every time I drive onto a dealer lot to do business. This is true. :mad:
Fifty years of doing this have taught me well that they are there to make money. Period. The less the dealer can buy (trade-in ) my car for and the more they can charge me for their car, the more money the dealer and the sales rep make. That is fact. Therefore I understand their goal is to take as much money from me as possible without being too obvious. This makes me paranoid! (suspicious, fearful, mistrustful).
When we get to the service department, again those folks work on a type of commission. For example: A certain job calls for say $300 charge to the customer and a certain amount of time to complete. If they finish the job sooner, the charge is still $300. If the job takes longer, they somehow ran into some other problems and the customer gets to pay more. The technician receives a certain % of the charge. If he can do the 4 hour job in 3 hours, he can get to the next job. If it takes longer he still gets his % for the total charges. The service writer is also getting a piece of the action. It is his job to smooth things over with the customer. Keep the customer happy so they keep coming back.
Some of the suggested maintenance involve a general going over of the entire car. It is his word and the check mark on a sheet of paper. Again, the quicker he finishes the job the quicker he can move on to the next.
Go to the "Problems and Solutions" forum and you will read all sorts of real problems the dealer told the guys were not problems and were "NORMAL" for the car. Warranty work doesn't pay as well as customer charges do. The dealer, tech, and service dept loose money if it is a real hard problem to fix. Of course it behooves the tech and the dealer to fix it the first time, but if the time gets too long they may start taking short cuts and/or telling you that "popping noise" in the rear speakers is "normal".
Of course they have clean waiting rooms with free coffee. It isn't because they love us, It is because they love our money. That is the retail business. None of the salesmen, service managers, technicians, or owners have ever invited me or mine to their house for dinner.
As far as the ILP goes, it has helped some folks and not others. I posted how disconnecting my battery to find a shorted wire resulted in my mileage dropping about 3 miles per gallon across the board. After several weeks of researching and reading about horrible mileage of others on one of these Pilot forums, and how the ILP helped them, it seemed like a reasonable thing to give it a try. My good mileage returned. I don't remember if it was a Pilot, Fit, or CR-V forum, but one guy took his car back to the dealer to have the ILP redone because he was getting crappy mileage. Later he found out that they simply let it idle for a while. Go figure!
FWIW our AT 4WD 03 CR-V also seems to get above average mileage. We got it a few months after the ILP Pilot thing. I did the ILP on it before the first tank of gas was gone. Just to make sure.
I've been criticized, and real close to being called a liar concerning the mileage we get on both our cars. The key words here is that we actually do get it. My wife doesn't drive the Pilot. But for reference I get 2-3 more mpg driving the CR-V than she does. On a recent road trip it got 30.7 or 30.8 with me driving the posted speed limit.
Leasing the car as you do, you may not be as picky as those of us that have $30K+/- invested. IF the ILP was done properly, doing it again will most likely not help you. If it was not done, it most likely will help you.
Enjoy your car and I hope you have a great new year!
Car dealerships are businesses to be sure. But while they are there to make money and the more money the better (which is not a bad thing), just like any other local business, they are not there to intentionally screw over the very customers from whom they need to have repeat business in order to survive. Or, at least that's my view.
I lease all my cars for various reasons, but just like any owner, I would like to achieve good fuel efficiency for so long as I have the cars. My relative lack of investment makes no difference when it comes to fuel efficiency.
Can you imagine the amused reaction of hybrid car owners to the discussion in this forum, a bunch of Pilot owners chatting about, of all things, "fuel efficiency," and grasping at straws such as ILP. Let's face it, these are large heavy 8-seaters which are just a little bit better than awful on gas. It's all relative, I guess.
I to apologize to the Conscientious people that work at dealerships. Those whom truly strive to do a good job.
Automobiles, campers, boats, and a few others are unique types of retail businesses.
Scenario: The old lady drives her super nice and low mileage car into a dealership. Her husband always bought the cars and said the next one would be a Pilot. He knew that if the ILP was done properly the car would get fantastic mileage. (cheap shot) He died a couple of years ago. This is all new to her!
A salesperson(SP) greets her, ushers her inside, offers her "coffee, tea or me" and gets right down to business.
Within 5 minutes her trade is being evaluated by the used car manager. The salesman has learned that she will rarely haul more than 1 passenger and doesn't listen to the radio so she can better concentrate on her driving. She lives in central Florida and never goes off the road. Rarely drives more than 25 miles from her house and just wants safe basic transportation. She has no idea how to negotiate or how to find the true value of her trade or dealer cost on the new one.
The used car manager comes in and talks with the new car manager, who in turn gives a note to the salesman. All very professional and hush hush. The used car will sell off their lot for $13K although they will ask a lot more. They are willing to give her $10.5 because it is exceptionally nice. The salesman is instructed to start at $8K.
She is not really sure what a Pilot looks like, she just knows that her late husband wanted one. There is a Black Pilot on the showroom floor. It is 4WD, with DVD and loaded with every accessory known to man. Including brush guard, trailer towing, DVD, XM radio, Navigation, and $1K worth of pin stripes and paint sealer. Every thing that can be screwed on or stuck on. With the add on sticker the total price is $44K.
"OH my, kind of expensive. That is twice what we paid for our house in 1960."
"Yes mame, Things have gone up since then. However with the great trade in, You can get this beauty for only $36,000. That is nearly $10,000 less than retail."
"Well OK, you look like an honest boy. Let's do it."
(Finally) Here is the question! Who is going to tell this lady that on the lot is a WHITE Pilot that will be a lot cooler in the Florida sun, 2wd, for better fuel economy, and a good basic transportation Pilot. The $1K worth of pin strips have not been added yet. This is the last day of the month and the dealership would be willing to discount it $1500 or more. Also they will give her $10.5k for her trade. The difference would be $18,000 instead of $36,000.
A. The salesman who is looking at more commission on this deal than all the others combined this month. B. The Used car manager who can make a couple thousand extra and more commissions for his SP and himself. C. The new car manager who can make a heap of money for the dealership and himself. D. All the above. E. None of the above.
Which one?
The same scenario can be applied to the service department when it is time for routine service. There are lots of dealer suggested services that are not required by the manufacturer. There is more money for the service dept, the service writer and the technician if we always listen to them.
The nature of that type business is to indeed milk as much from the customer as possible without it looking that way.
Most other types of retail offer the product with the price and it is really not negotiable, (to most shoppers).
Can you imagine the amused reaction of hybrid car owners to the discussion in this forum, a bunch of Pilot owners chatting about, of all things, "fuel efficiency," and grasping at straws such as ILP.
When surrounded by an ocean of expensive gas prices we grasp at any straw we can to stay afloat.
Go over to the Honda FIT forum. They are just as concerned about 34 mpg vs 38 mpg as we are about 22 vs 26. And yes, ILP is being argued there also.
I am thinking of putting Helium in my tires for better gas mileage. This should reduce the weight and rotational inertia. Has anyone seen any results for this idea? I don't think my Honda dealer will do this, but I know this clown.....
Any energy savings due to weight reduction will be quite negligible in ordinary use.
On the other hand, helium molecules are very light and very small. This has the effect of allowing relatively rapid leakage from your tires and may end up doing damage to your wheels (the molecules are small enough to diffuse into the metal and cause embrittlement). Also, helium is more compressible than air which may give you a "mushy" ride.
Finally, helium is not cheap! Unlike oxygen and nitrogen which are easily extracted from air, atmospheric helium is practically nonexistent. (It is produced deep within the earth through radioactive decay and can be found in natural gas deposits.)
Tidester, you have some interesting chemistry knowledge there. The Helium was probably a bad idea, although Neon filled tires would look pretty cool on the Pilot. I know this guy in Las Vegas......
The ILP will probably help if it has not been done properly since those fuses (Tech Bulletin) were dealt with or the battery disconnected,replaced or whatever. Just try to get a good feel for how the car is doing "before ILP" with weather, driving conditions and brand of fuel.
fx35awd, Back up to post 201. Somewhere in that area you will find the (ILP) Idle Learn Procedure. It is discussed way earlier than that.
Basically, when Hondas are shipped, a fuse is unplugged to keep the battery from running down. According to the TB if that fuse, and/or maybe another, is disconnected or the Battery is disconnected the ILP should be done.
Part of the "GET Ready" at the dealer is to plug in that fuse which sort of re connects the computer. I don't know if the car will or won't run with that fuse disconnected. If it does, it would probably not be very efficient.
Supposably doing the ILP teaches the computer to Idle properly as well as run at peak efficiency. If it is not done properly at the dealer, efficiency may suffer.
It made a difference in my Pilot of 3-4 mpg, even though it had ben idling fine before. Some have had good results. While others have not.
You will also find some spirited discussions concerning the ILP.
Start with Post 201 and read up to this one. Then start with post 1 and read all. Good info.
i've got 23,000+ miles and get just over 20 mpg in mixed driving. I got 21 on a recent road trip with skiis on top.
I'll have to look into the ILP and helium suggestion, in fact I was wondering if the dealer who puts a couple of helium balloons on the cars every day wouldn'y mind strapping on a dozen or so just to sweeten up the deal and improve my milege
Strapped on balloons would possibly result in excessive wind drag. The KEY would be to fill the tires with helium and replace those heavy steel framed seats with helium filled balloon seats.
And then when the balloons loose their lift, you can just open them up and aim them out the back-end and........ PPPFFFFHHHHHHHHHTTTT....extra thrust! :P More and more MPG.
I performed the ILP and I did not get a significant increase in MPG. The vehicle seemed to run better though. With this last tank, I had a lot of city driving and, well uh, idling. It has been pretty cold here and after around fifteen minutes into the ILP the fan didn't cycle on and the temp gauge wasn't going higher. I closed the hood and then the engine warmed up and the fan started cycling. It certainly wasn't painful to try this simple process and at least now I know it has been done. For the record, my real world numbers are:
It may have been properly done at the dealer before delivery.
At least now you know it has been done right..
You had the courage to do something for yourself instead of just whining and complaining!
Let us know how things go.
I'm going to replace my battery soon. ILP will need to be redone! The battery hasn't given any indications of going bad, but experience tells me that todays batteries don't give much or any warning. Now they work, and now they don't. Mine is 4 yrs old. It is TIME.
I doubt that the guy at the battery store is going to do the ILP! :sick:
So I'm going to have to drive the car all the way home. Wait for it to cool down! Disconnect and reconnect the battery. Crank the car and find something to do for a half hour or so before going out and checking to see if the fan is cycling.
You can buy little 9 volt battery gizmos that plug into a power port or cigarette lighter. They are supposed to retain all your ECU and other computer settings while you swap your battery out. And you won't have to reset your clock or radio stations.
An auto parts store should have them for around $10 or so.
I was being a little facetious toward the end. All that work of the ILP would actually be about 2 minutes my part. The car does the rest while I compute or do something involving coffee.
On the other hand, the Pilots mileage has been really above average from what I've read here. Don't know what kind of mental state the computer is in, but hate to do anything that would put it in a bad mood.
Had my Pilot for 3 months now. Lifetime mpg is 17.09mpg in mixed city/highway driving.
This Pilot followed 2 Odysseys. Thought Pilot would be worse on gas than Odyssey, which is one reason I was reluctant to make the switch. But reality, at least for my family, is that they are about the same. If Pilot is worse, the difference is marginal and shouldn't be a factor in deciding which one to buy.
18000 miles live in rural, mountainous area, so never get true highway mileage, but 21-22 is average. first time i checked without any out of town driving. all town 16.6. I do no think these numbers are anything to complain about.
Interestingly my mpg pattern shows a steady decrease. Started out in the high 17s back in November. Now my tanks have been mid-15s to mid-16s. Perhaps it is attributable to winter. But I'm seeing the opposite of what you'd expect to see during break-in - mpg getting worse not better. Hopefully it will improve in spring.
Hey kipk! I would really like to thank you for all of the info that you've posted on this site. I really appreciate it! We bought a new '06 Pilot the end of last summer and our MPG ranges from 11.2 to 12.5 MPG. I went through the ILP procedure last evening and now I am going to keep track of the MPG over the next month. The dealer kept saying to wait until it gets to 6000 miles, then we will see an improvement. I checked the Pilot's Service History pamphlet and sure enough the ILP WAS NOT done on our Pilot. I called the dealer today to let him now about the info I found by myself on your site here.... he didn't have much to say. I knew that when my crew cab 3/4 ton Chevy truck, and my old GTO get better MPG than our Pilot I knew something was up! Thanks again for everything. I'll keep you posted on the MPG!
Certainly hope the ILP will help. Another big killer of mileage right now is the cold weather and Ethanol.
Dealers love to buy time with the famous "Well you need to wait until it is properly broken in at X,XXX,XXX miles"!
Hopefully you will get used to the problem and go away.
Speaking of GTOs I bought a NEW 64 for $3,250. 4 speed stick and Three deuces. Got married in 1965 and wife needed automatics. Had a couple of Fords then a NEW '67 GTO. Paid nearly $3,500 for that one.
Hey kipk! Here's my GTO story. Three days after I turned 17 years old I bought a junky looking 1970 GTO Judge and another 1970 GTO as a parts car for $1875. I had to pay $75 for the Crankin' Kraco stereo to come with the car. I've had the car for almost 18 years now. I'm in the process of doing a frame off restoration as we speak. The car never had the original drivetrain, my guess would be that my Judge had the crap beat out of it in its earlier years. So I'm going to put a monster stroker motor in it. I'll have to go to a website that's titled "Real World GPM". Yep, that's Gallons Per Mile. After doing the ILP and we hopefully get the MPG back to where it's supposed to be on the Pilot, I plan on installing a K&N filter. Do you have any other ideas for increasing MPG on our Pilot? Once again, thank you for all of your input on this site! It's greatly appreciated!
I had a bunch of cars I should have hung on too. Keep in mind that I'm 65 so hot rods were kind of a way of life back then. First car was a 39 ford business coupe, no back seat. Installed a ready to race flat head flat track engine that was built for a local dirt track racer. Then a 49 Ford sedan which got a 55 or 56 OHV V8 Mercury Turn Pike Cruiser engine stuffed under the hood. Next was a 52 Chevy that got a 265 Chevy V8. Then a 55 Plymouth w/V8. Then a 60 Impala with a 348 4 Speed 3 duces, which we punched out to 360+ cu inch with high compression pistons Geovonti cam and such.
Other notables that come to mind are the 62 Impala 327 4speed. Ordered the 64 and 67 GTO with a side window post as I was tired of window rattles and wind noise from the hard top convertibles. Between the two GTOs we had a 1966 Ford Fairlane 390 GTA. List just goes on and own.
Never really took pictures as they seemed like just "NORMAL" cars to us. We traded every year or so. Most anything we had back then would be worth a premium today. Hind sight is a wonderful thing!
There is a local "Car Show" circuit in our area. No prizes or anything. They just gather to show off their cars. They are in our town the First Saturday evening of each month. Really brings back a lot of memories and reminds me of how "Youth" was definitely wasted on this youth! :sick:
As far as increasing mileage on the Pilot, a light foot and lower speed are essential.
Keep in mind there are other cars on the road and we don't want to become a hazard for them. So when possible::
Try to time stop signs and traffic lights so that you don't have to completely stop or don't have to wait on those already sitting there. Any time you have to accelerate or get the car moving from a stop uses extra fuel as well as that amount wasted while sitting at that light.
Let off the throttle so that as little brakes as possible are needed. No need to accelerate all the way to a stopping point and using the brakes hard to stop. If there are no cars behind me, I will see if I can coast to where the car barely gets there and little or no brakes were necessary.
Gently give enough throttle so that something laying on the dash won't slide off and the tranny will shift around 2500 RPM without having to lift off the throttle.
Don't tail gate. That throttle/brake, throttle/brake routine burns gas and burns up brake pads and you don't get there any faster.
Enjoy trips. Run slightly below or right at the posted speed limit. I've found there to be 6-10 MPG difference between running the posted limits and 80+ mph. Depending on load and how much above 80+..
Don't use Cruise control when driving on "Hilly" roads. Near the bottom of a down hill grade accelerate a little extra while gravity is helping and hold that throttle setting. You will go a lot farther up the next hill before extra throttle is needed.
If traffic is light I might decide to run 65 mph. I might get to 70+ going downhill and drop to 60- before reaching the top on the next one. Steady throttle when possible.
When passing be as gentle as traffic will allow.
Press the "AC OFF" button when the AC is not needed. Keep in mind that when in normal mode the AC compressor is always running unless you deliberately turn the AC OFF and see that little "AC is OFF" sign..Don't run at high way speeds with the windows down more than a couple of inches. AC will use less gas than the drag caused by open windows.
For me it is a game, it is fun, and it pays off!
With that in mind I still enjoy letting it red line once or twice a week.
You can take the guy outa the car you but can't get the car outa of the guy. Kip, I use all those tactics while driving also. Since I also carpool, the ride is much calmer when I drive than when another driver does. He has a Subaru with the turbo and he likes to feel it boost.
3earnhardt, you gotta put some pictures up on your carspace of the restoration project. I would love to see it. I never had a hotrod in my life, just my dad's old truck which I have had for 25 years now. I have done a bit of work to keep it presentable but not a restoration in the least sense. We do have some great stories together, though. I posted a couple pictures on my carspace.
I am afraid to redline my Pilot yet.......but I will soon.
My car was originally the color Orbit Orange. But back in 1991 I was the typical punk motorhead so I had the car painted black. The day that I started the restoration on my Judge I had my wife take several photos of me burning the tires off of the car. I sent the pictures to Car Craft for their burnout section, but they never got published. When we took the sanders and the torch to the body of the Judge the black paint still looked like the black glass on the front of a microwave. :shades: Now the car looks like someone stole it and ripped all of the parts off of it! :sick: Has anyone on this site installed a new chip in their Pilot to increase MPG and power? I'm assuming that will void the warranty though.
Comments
Odie
Odie's Carspace
I think this particular MPG thread was moved here FROM the Problems & Solutions discussion so some of the replies may be a little confusing.
tidester, host
Since ILP is done by dealers as part of dealer prep, why is there so much chatter in this forum about do it yourself ILP performed by owners? Is having it done once not good enough?
I'm averaging the EPA city rating (17mpg), though my driving is at least 50% highway. Based on EPA ratings of 17city/22highway, I was hoping to average about 20mpg for mixed driving.
My Pilot replaced a 2004 Odyssey, which fell far short of my mpg expectations. Gas mileage is about the same, the Pilot being worse but not by much. I don't think my relatively poor mpg with these large Hondas is attributable to my doing anything wrong (i.e., I check and adjust my tire pressure on a monthly basis, I accelerate smoothly, etc.). I never had a car or small SUV, be it a Honda or other make, that didn't return EPA or better. Only the Odyssey and the Pilot have disappopinted me when it comes to mpg.
Yes. It should have!
Is this a just for safety's sake sort of thing? Dealer should have done it, but no way to know for sure and can't hurt to do it for yourself even if it's been done before?
Only if you wish to eliminate one possible source of bad fuel economy.
I'd like to have the benefits of ILP, if any. But unless it's never been done to my vehicle, I'd rather not have to deal with all those nuisances associated with disconnecting the battery. I'm thinking about making an inquiry to my dealer to check if ILP is part of dealer prep and if they have a record of it having been done on my vehicle.
What are "all those nuisances associated with disconnecting the battery"? Some day that battery will go dead or be replaced. The ILP will need to be done. The "GUY" that installs the battery probably will not know how or will not take the time.
In the URL provided above, the ILP is clearly part of the dealer get ready procedure.
The only record they will have is a piece of paper with check marks by some "guy". Do you think the "guy" would leave a box unchecked if he was supposed to perform a function and did not? Especially a function that can not be verified?
Unlike tire pressure and whether or not the carpets were installed, there is no way of checking on whether or not the "Guy" did the ILP!
My Pilot replaced a 2004 Odyssey, which fell far short of my mpg expectations. Gas mileage is about the same, the Pilot being worse but not by much. I don't think my relatively poor mpg with these large Hondas is attributable to my doing anything wrong...
Was ILP done on the Odyssey? Did both vehicles come from the same dealer?
Only point I'm trying to make is don't be so trusting of dealerships and the folks that work there. Even if the dealer is truly striving for excellence and he is your Dad, only the "GUY" in "Get Ready" knows what was actually done to your car and what was not!
Kip
If I may be trustworthy to a fault, you seem to be at the opposite end of the spectrum. I have no reason not to trust my dealership.
I am not inclined to re-do a time-consuming and not so simple thing which already appears to have been done by the dealer. Yes, I am trusting that a check in the box beside ILP coupled with a signed certification means that it was done to my car as part of dealer prep. I see your point that I cannot know for sure, but I consider the odds to be extremely low that it was not actually done even though there is a written record indicating that it was done.
In my case, it is highly unlikely that some day the battery will go dead or need to be replaced. As I am leasing my Pilot for only 3 years, I do not exepct to have to replace the battery at some point. As for the battery going dead during my lease, that shouldn't happen unless I make a mistake (leaving a light on, a door ajar, etc.). I've only done something like that a few times in a lifetime, and only once or twice did the battery actually go dead.
Nuisances I can think of as being associated with disconnecting the battery are having to reactiviate and reprogram the regular radio and satellite radio, reset the clock, and probably some other things I'd only realize if it happened to me.
It just seems to me that ILP is a not so simple and not so quick process, which results in some inconveniences. Makes me think it's better to avoid doing it yourself so long as there's a record of it having already been done by the dealer.
I did get my former Ody and replacement Pilot at the same dealer. I was unaware of ILP as a potential mpg helper during my ownership of the Pilot, so I have no idea whether or not it was done by the dealer and now I have no way of checking. But again, I have no reason not to trust my dealer or suspect that their prep people avoid some work and save some time by checking off unconfirmable items without doing the work. They, even more so than we, should understand the importance of what they do.
David
Yup, my Pilot fits this bill, albeit at the high end of the mixed spectrum. Makes me feel better, even good, if what you say is true and reports in this forum of vastly higher mpg are untrue. I assume that you are talking about the 4WD Pilot. Obviously the FWD Pilot is somewhat better on gas than the 4WD Pilot as the FWD vehicle is lighter and the engine has VCM.
I have also done a lot of research on this topic.
What source(s) did you use for your research?
I have one other observation to make at this time. I noticed that my odometer is a little off, and happily in my favor. I know from my other vehicles over the years that the distance from my usual pump to my house is 3.1 miles. My Pilot thinks it's only 3.0 miles. My mileage could therefore be understated by as much as 3.2%. And if my mileage is understated, so too is my mpg. If I do the math by adjusting my mileage by 3.2%, my overall mpg goes from 17.14 to 17.69. Being that I lease my Pilot, I have no intention of getting my odometer recalibrated. I will do a comparison with my of my other cars on a much longer drive to get a better sense of how much my Pilot's odometer is actually understated.
Seems that you are not actually believing either of us.
It makes you feel good that others are in your boat, if what they say is true.?? And what I've said is untrue! Yet you choose to believe some guy in the "Get Ready Dept." spent the extra time necessary to do this simple but necessary procedure correctly. He may have or may not have.
Is he a certified Honda technician, or simply an hourly guy that is going to hopefully do as the book says (Hopefully), then wash and vacuum the car.
As far as research is concerned: It is often easier to find research to back our way of thinking rather than trying something that might work, but may be a slight one time hassel. Try doing some more research and read the "Pilot Get Ready" info!
Reminds me of an overweight person,(me included), whom might say. "Well it is easier and more convenient to believe loosing weight is impossible because most don't succeed." I realize from fist hand knowledge that reading all those labels on the food packages and walking reasonable distances instead of driving is a nuisance.
In response to your other post replying to me.
Yes I have been buying cars for 50+ years. This involves 60+/- cars. Most were new. Yes I have learned to not trust 100% most of the folks past the Service writing area on things that can not be verified. I've caught way too many lies. Oil filters that were not changed, tires that were not rotated, air pressure different on all 4 tires, and so forth. And those things are indeed verifiable. How many unverifiables were not done is impossible to know. Yet a piece of paper had those areas checked as done.
When you think about it, most dealers and their sales reps are trying to get into our pockets as deep as possible when we drive onto the lot. That is how they make a living. The more you spend, the more they make! The lies start there! In the service dept, the quicker they can finish a job, the more jobs they can do, and the more money they can make. Even the service writers will often try selling us something we don't need! They get some commissions also.
Am I paranoid? You betcha!!!
FWIW my 03 Pilot is 4wd and the engine hits on all 6 cylinders every time. That ILP could have been done in less time than writing these post.
I'm a Christian and will not knowingly be untruthful on these forums. The mileages I've posted came directly from the log that records every mile and every fill up on my cars.
We can continue to get poor fuel milesge and complain about it or we can try to do something about it. Our car, our driving habits, the gas we can/do purchase, our driving conditions may be such that we are going to get worse than average, period. Maybe not!
Kip
Kip,
Seems that you are not actually believing either of us.
It makes you feel good that others are in your boat, if what they say is true.?? And what I've said is untrue!
I'm not calling anyone a liar, least of all you. If anything, I tend to believe that your data is accurate because my mpg fits within your data. Yet others have reported mpg in the low to upper 20s and I had an impression that they seem to credit the much talked about ILP for this. Thus, my interest in ILP.
Yet you choose to believe some guy in the "Get Ready Dept." spent the extra time necessary to do this simple but necessary procedure correctly. He may have or may not have.
Yes, I believe that this person spent the time necessary to do his job properly. I have no reason to doubt it.
How many unverifiables were not done is impossible to know. Yet a piece of paper had those areas checked as done.
True, but unlike you, I am not paranoid about it.
Fifty years of doing this have taught me well that they are there to make money. Period. The less the dealer can buy (trade-in ) my car for and the more they can charge me for their car, the more money the dealer and the sales rep make. That is fact. Therefore I understand their goal is to take as much money from me as possible without being too obvious. This makes me paranoid! (suspicious, fearful, mistrustful).
When we get to the service department, again those folks work on a type of commission. For example: A certain job calls for say $300 charge to the customer and a certain amount of time to complete. If they finish the job sooner, the charge is still $300. If the job takes longer, they somehow ran into some other problems and the customer gets to pay more. The technician receives a certain % of the charge. If he can do the 4 hour job in 3 hours, he can get to the next job. If it takes longer he still gets his % for the total charges. The service writer is also getting a piece of the action. It is his job to smooth things over with the customer. Keep the customer happy so they keep coming back.
Some of the suggested maintenance involve a general going over of the entire car. It is his word and the check mark on a sheet of paper. Again, the quicker he finishes the job the quicker he can move on to the next.
Go to the "Problems and Solutions" forum and you will read all sorts of real problems the dealer told the guys were not problems and were "NORMAL" for the car. Warranty work doesn't pay as well as customer charges do. The dealer, tech, and service dept loose money if it is a real hard problem to fix. Of course it behooves the tech and the dealer to fix it the first time, but if the time gets too long they may start taking short cuts and/or telling you that "popping noise" in the rear speakers is "normal".
Of course they have clean waiting rooms with free coffee. It isn't because they love us, It is because they love our money. That is the retail business. None of the salesmen, service managers, technicians, or owners have ever invited me or mine to their house for dinner.
As far as the ILP goes, it has helped some folks and not others. I posted how disconnecting my battery to find a shorted wire resulted in my mileage dropping about 3 miles per gallon across the board. After several weeks of researching and reading about horrible mileage of others on one of these Pilot forums, and how the ILP helped them, it seemed like a reasonable thing to give it a try. My good mileage returned. I don't remember if it was a Pilot, Fit, or CR-V forum, but one guy took his car back to the dealer to have the ILP redone because he was getting crappy mileage. Later he found out that they simply let it idle for a while. Go figure!
FWIW our AT 4WD 03 CR-V also seems to get above average mileage. We got it a few months after the ILP Pilot thing. I did the ILP on it before the first tank of gas was gone. Just to make sure.
I've been criticized, and real close to being called a liar concerning the mileage we get on both our cars. The key words here is that we actually do get it. My wife doesn't drive the Pilot. But for reference I get 2-3 more mpg driving the CR-V than she does. On a recent road trip it got 30.7 or 30.8 with me driving the posted speed limit.
Leasing the car as you do, you may not be as picky as those of us that have $30K+/- invested. IF the ILP was done properly, doing it again will most likely not help you. If it was not done, it most likely will help you.
Enjoy your car and I hope you have a great new year!
Kip
I lease all my cars for various reasons, but just like any owner, I would like to achieve good fuel efficiency for so long as I have the cars. My relative lack of investment makes no difference when it comes to fuel efficiency.
Can you imagine the amused reaction of hybrid car owners to the discussion in this forum, a bunch of Pilot owners chatting about, of all things, "fuel efficiency," and grasping at straws such as ILP. Let's face it, these are large heavy 8-seaters which are just a little bit better than awful on gas. It's all relative, I guess.
Automobiles, campers, boats, and a few others are unique types of retail businesses.
Scenario: The old lady drives her super nice and low mileage car into a dealership. Her husband always bought the cars and said the next one would be a Pilot. He knew that if the ILP was done properly the car would get fantastic mileage. (cheap shot)
A salesperson(SP) greets her, ushers her inside, offers her "coffee, tea or me" and gets right down to business.
Within 5 minutes her trade is being evaluated by the used car manager. The salesman has learned that she will rarely haul more than 1 passenger and doesn't listen to the radio so she can better concentrate on her driving. She lives in central Florida and never goes off the road. Rarely drives more than 25 miles from her house and just wants safe basic transportation. She has no idea how to negotiate or how to find the true value of her trade or dealer cost on the new one.
The used car manager comes in and talks with the new car manager, who in turn gives a note to the salesman. All very professional and hush hush. The used car will sell off their lot for $13K although they will ask a lot more. They are willing to give her $10.5 because it is exceptionally nice. The salesman is instructed to start at $8K.
She is not really sure what a Pilot looks like, she just knows that her late husband wanted one. There is a Black Pilot on the showroom floor. It is 4WD, with DVD and loaded with every accessory known to man. Including brush guard, trailer towing, DVD, XM radio, Navigation, and $1K worth of pin stripes and paint sealer. Every thing that can be screwed on or stuck on. With the add on sticker the total price is $44K.
"OH my, kind of expensive. That is twice what we paid for our house in 1960."
"Yes mame, Things have gone up since then. However with the great trade in, You can get this beauty for only $36,000. That is nearly $10,000 less than retail."
"Well OK, you look like an honest boy. Let's do it."
(Finally) Here is the question! Who is going to tell this lady that on the lot is a WHITE Pilot that will be a lot cooler in the Florida sun, 2wd, for better fuel economy, and a good basic transportation Pilot. The $1K worth of pin strips have not been added yet. This is the last day of the month and the dealership would be willing to discount it $1500 or more. Also they will give her $10.5k for her trade. The difference would be $18,000 instead of $36,000.
A. The salesman who is looking at more commission on this deal than all the others combined this month.
B. The Used car manager who can make a couple thousand extra and more commissions for his SP and himself.
C. The new car manager who can make a heap of money for the dealership and himself.
D. All the above.
E. None of the above.
Which one?
The same scenario can be applied to the service department when it is time for routine service. There are lots of dealer suggested services that are not required by the manufacturer. There is more money for the service dept, the service writer and the technician if we always listen to them.
The nature of that type business is to indeed milk as much from the customer as possible without it looking that way.
Most other types of retail offer the product with the price and it is really not negotiable, (to most shoppers).
I apologize for getting off subject here. Done!
Kip
When surrounded by an ocean of expensive gas prices we grasp at any straw we can to stay afloat.
Go over to the Honda FIT forum. They are just as concerned about 34 mpg vs 38 mpg as we are about 22 vs 26. And yes, ILP is being argued there also.
As you say " It's all relative, I guess."
Kip
There are more war stories over in Stories from the Sales Frontlines.
On the other hand, helium molecules are very light and very small. This has the effect of allowing relatively rapid leakage from your tires and may end up doing damage to your wheels (the molecules are small enough to diffuse into the metal and cause embrittlement). Also, helium is more compressible than air which may give you a "mushy" ride.
Finally, helium is not cheap! Unlike oxygen and nitrogen which are easily extracted from air, atmospheric helium is practically nonexistent. (It is produced deep within the earth through radioactive decay and can be found in natural gas deposits.)
tidester, host
What a great idea ! That should work!
How about a large Helium filled balloon inside the car?
Plus, the seats could be replaced with balloon seats!!
The list could go on and on!
Get the weight down enough and you are talking about some serious fuel mileage. Plus 0-60 times to seriously brag about. :shades:
Kip
Kip
Seriously, I am going to try the ILP soon and will let you know how things go.
My daddy used to put molasses in his bike tires when he was a kid - the original run-flats. He used to try to pull my leg a lot too....
Good Luck!
Kip
Leg pulling is even more fun as a grand parent!!!
Kip
I think I'll go with radon - I like my tires to glow in the dark.
tidester, host
I am not mechanically savy and I do appologize, but what is "ILP"? Thank you.
Kip, and so the ILP discussion begins anew.
FX, scroll back a few pages and you can review lots of previous discussion about ILP (Idle Learn Procedure).
fx35awd,
Back up to post 201. Somewhere in that area you will find the (ILP) Idle Learn Procedure. It is discussed way earlier than that.
Basically, when Hondas are shipped, a fuse is unplugged to keep the battery from running down. According to the TB if that fuse, and/or maybe another, is disconnected or the Battery is disconnected the ILP should be done.
Part of the "GET Ready" at the dealer is to plug in that fuse which sort of re connects the computer. I don't know if the car will or won't run with that fuse disconnected. If it does, it would probably not be very efficient.
Supposably doing the ILP teaches the computer to Idle properly as well as run at peak efficiency. If it is not done properly at the dealer, efficiency may suffer.
It made a difference in my Pilot of 3-4 mpg, even though it had ben idling fine before. Some have had good results. While others have not.
You will also find some spirited discussions concerning the ILP.
Start with Post 201 and read up to this one. Then start with post 1 and read all. Good info.
Kip
I'll have to look into the ILP and helium suggestion, in fact I was wondering if the dealer who puts a couple of helium balloons on the cars every day wouldn'y mind strapping on a dozen or so just to sweeten up the deal and improve my milege
Unfortunately, any benefit of the buoyancy will be offset by increased aerodynamic drag ...
tidester, host
Strapped on balloons would possibly result in excessive wind drag. The KEY would be to fill the tires with helium and replace those heavy steel framed seats with helium filled balloon seats.
Kip
Kip
Miles Gallons MPG
277 16.1 17.2
316 17.8 17.8
179 10.3 17.4
334 19.4 17.3
309 17.2 17.9
This only makes 1,400 miles on the Pilot, so I sure things will improve after the engine breaks in. Until then, I'm going to stock-up on balloons.
At least now you know it has been done right..
You had the courage to do something for yourself instead of just whining and complaining!
Let us know how things go.
I'm going to replace my battery soon. ILP will need to be redone! The battery hasn't given any indications of going bad, but experience tells me that todays batteries don't give much or any warning. Now they work, and now they don't. Mine is 4 yrs old. It is TIME.
I doubt that the guy at the battery store is going to do the ILP! :sick:
So I'm going to have to drive the car all the way home.
Wait for it to cool down!
Disconnect and reconnect the battery.
Crank the car and find something to do for a half hour or so before going out and checking to see if the fan is cycling.
OH woe is me!
Kip
An auto parts store should have them for around $10 or so.
Usual disclaimers; never played with one myself.
I was being a little facetious toward the end. All that work of the ILP would actually be about 2 minutes my part. The car does the rest while I compute or do something involving coffee.
On the other hand, the Pilots mileage has been really above average from what I've read here. Don't know what kind of mental state the computer is in, but hate to do anything that would put it in a bad mood.
Think I will look into acquiring that gizmo.
Thanks,
Kip
This Pilot followed 2 Odysseys. Thought Pilot would be worse on gas than Odyssey, which is one reason I was reluctant to make the switch. But reality, at least for my family, is that they are about the same. If Pilot is worse, the difference is marginal and shouldn't be a factor in deciding which one to buy.
Averaging 16.86mpg in mixed driving since new.
Interestingly my mpg pattern shows a steady decrease. Started out in the high 17s back in November. Now my tanks have been mid-15s to mid-16s. Perhaps it is attributable to winter. But I'm seeing the opposite of what you'd expect to see during break-in - mpg getting worse not better. Hopefully it will improve in spring.
Certainly hope the ILP will help. Another big killer of mileage right now is the cold weather and Ethanol.
Dealers love to buy time with the famous "Well you need to wait until it is properly broken in at X,XXX,XXX miles"!
Hopefully you will get used to the problem and go away.
Speaking of GTOs I bought a NEW 64 for $3,250. 4 speed stick and Three deuces. Got married in 1965 and wife needed automatics. Had a couple of Fords then a NEW '67 GTO. Paid nearly $3,500 for that one.
Kip
Tried to get back to you but it wouldn't let me unless I sent a picture which I don't know how to do. Please respond through "E-mail msg"!
Thanks,
Kip
Keep in mind that I'm 65 so hot rods were kind of a way of life back then. First car was a 39 ford business coupe, no back seat. Installed a ready to race flat head flat track engine that was built for a local dirt track racer. Then a 49 Ford sedan which got a 55 or 56 OHV V8 Mercury Turn Pike Cruiser engine stuffed under the hood. Next was a 52 Chevy that got a 265 Chevy V8. Then a 55 Plymouth w/V8. Then a 60 Impala with a 348 4 Speed 3 duces, which we punched out to 360+ cu inch with high compression pistons Geovonti cam and such.
Other notables that come to mind are the 62 Impala 327 4speed. Ordered the 64 and 67 GTO with a side window post as I was tired of window rattles and wind noise from the hard top convertibles. Between the two GTOs we had a 1966 Ford Fairlane 390 GTA. List just goes on and own.
Never really took pictures as they seemed like just "NORMAL" cars to us. We traded every year or so. Most anything we had back then would be worth a premium today. Hind sight is a wonderful thing!
There is a local "Car Show" circuit in our area. No prizes or anything. They just gather to show off their cars. They are in our town the First Saturday evening of each month. Really brings back a lot of memories and reminds me of how "Youth" was definitely wasted on this youth! :sick:
Good luck with your restoration.
Kip
As far as increasing mileage on the Pilot, a light foot and lower speed are essential.
Keep in mind there are other cars on the road and we don't want to become a hazard for them. So when possible::
Try to time stop signs and traffic lights so that you don't have to completely stop or don't have to wait on those already sitting there. Any time you have to accelerate or get the car moving from a stop uses extra fuel as well as that amount wasted while sitting at that light.
Let off the throttle so that as little brakes as possible are needed. No need to accelerate all the way to a stopping point and using the brakes hard to stop. If there are no cars behind me, I will see if I can coast to where the car barely gets there and little or no brakes were necessary.
Gently give enough throttle so that something laying on the dash won't slide off and the tranny will shift around 2500 RPM without having to lift off the throttle.
Don't tail gate. That throttle/brake, throttle/brake routine burns gas and burns up brake pads and you don't get there any faster.
Enjoy trips. Run slightly below or right at the posted speed limit. I've found there to be 6-10 MPG difference between running the posted limits and 80+ mph. Depending on load and how much above 80+..
Don't use Cruise control when driving on "Hilly" roads. Near the bottom of a down hill grade accelerate a little extra while gravity is helping and hold that throttle setting. You will go a lot farther up the next hill before extra throttle is needed.
If traffic is light I might decide to run 65 mph. I might get to 70+ going downhill and drop to 60- before reaching the top on the next one. Steady throttle when possible.
When passing be as gentle as traffic will allow.
Press the "AC OFF" button when the AC is not needed. Keep in mind that when in normal mode the AC compressor is always running unless you deliberately turn the AC OFF and see that little "AC is OFF" sign..Don't run at high way speeds with the windows down more than a couple of inches.
AC will use less gas than the drag caused by open windows.
For me it is a game, it is fun, and it pays off!
With that in mind I still enjoy letting it red line once or twice a week.
Kip
3earnhardt, you gotta put some pictures up on your carspace of the restoration project. I would love to see it. I never had a hotrod in my life, just my dad's old truck which I have had for 25 years now. I have done a bit of work to keep it presentable but not a restoration in the least sense. We do have some great stories together, though. I posted a couple pictures on my carspace.
I am afraid to redline my Pilot yet.......but I will soon.
Has anyone on this site installed a new chip in their Pilot to increase MPG and power? I'm assuming that will void the warranty though.