I am considering installing K&N filters for my Pilot and Odyssey. I am a bit hestitant since I have heard that they can damage the Mass Airflow Sensor, but I am not sure how true that is. I would like to know if it makes a significant improvement in economy and power, though. I usually replace my air filters at 15,000 miles for better economy and to keep the intake components clean. I'll have to run some number estimate to see what type of cost/benefits are involved.
OK. This doesn't make alot of sense, but... After doing the ILP on our Pilot, these were our results.
Before ILP Overall average MPG 12.4 Best Highway MPG 14.5
After ILP Intown MPG 13.1 Highway MPG 20.51!
The highway MPG was based on a total 0f 195.3 miles. About 95 miles of that at 62 mph and 100 miles at 78 mph.
One thing that I've noticed about the V-TEC engine is that the "power band" kicks in at very light throttle pressure and at lower RPM's than would be expected. The throttle seems to be very sensitive. Once you slightly hit the gas pedal, the tranny drops a gear and accelerates very quickly. On my Camry and Crew Cab Chevy it seems like you have to press the gas pedal quite a bit harder to get the engine and tranny to kick into passing gear. So I think the ILP cured our Highway MPG , but it seems like the City MPG is destined to be lower because of the V-TEC's quick throttle kickdown. ( Size 13 shoes!) Thanks again for all of your input Kip. I wouldn't have known to do this without your help! I'll keep you posted on our future MPG.
City driving, especially heavy traffic, can really destroy mileage. Getting the 4400+ pounds of Pilot moving from a full stop will take the MPG toll.
And you are right, enough throttle pressure to result in a downshift may burn extra fuel. It is the little things that over a period of time will contribute too or deduct from fuel efficiency.
Even in relatively traffic free areas we press and let off that throttle more than we realize. Sometimes, when you have nothing else on your mind, count the number of inputs to that throttle for a couple of miles.
Then there are things like approaching a stop sign. There are cars sitting there. If we arrive while they are still there, we stop, then go a little, then stop and go, and so on. What if we had been able to slow down, back there, so that there were no cars at the sign when we arrived. We only have to stop and start once. When that car turned off and I wanted to get back to cruising speed, could I have used less throttle? It can become a game.
Chances are good that no one on this forum is going to starve or miss a house note because their Pilot gets 14 mpg instead of 17 mpg city, or 22 instead of 26+ on the road.
To me it is just a challenge. I could maybe get even better driving at 50-55 on the road, but some things have their limits. :shades: I'll stick to the 60-65-70 average with a steady foot. I don't wish to be that old dude blocking traffic. Not yet anyway!
BTW, Apparently Your were/are an Ernhardt "Fan". Me too! I live 8 miles from Atlanta International Raceway and have never attended a race there. Yet I have attended the Daytona 500. Doesn't make sense, does it!
Got my 2007 Pilot 4WD. After the break-in period (first 1,000 miles), I calculated my MPG. Twice, the numbers are 10.5 both times! Granted, most my driving is city traffic, but was not "bad traffic." I read about ILP here, and asked my dealer, the dealer told me that ILP would only affect the "idle speed" of the engine, and do not affect MPG much.
I also noticed that when I have the heater on, the engine cooling fan would automatically come on, and never wait for the engine to warm up even in the cold morning. I wonder if this affects my MPG. My dealer first told me that cooling fan is on because the AC (or compressor) is on. But when I checked the manual and made sure the compressor was not on (by override the "auto" setting and set it to floor only), it still did the same thing. Now my dealer just told me "that's normal!"
Anyway, the dealer blamed my poor MPG on "individual driver difference." But I have had other cars/vans before, and I have never had one that exhibits such poor MPG in comparison to the EPA estimate (in the same driving routes)!
I will try ILP when the weather warms up, so I can let the car idle outside instead of inside my garage.
I will keep my finger crossed. In the mean time, any suggestions?
Several folks on the Pilot, CR-V, and Fit forums have benefited from doing the ILP.
Do it properly and you have nothing to loose and possibly much to gain. It is Part of the GET READY PROCEDURE. Should be done before you take delivery of the vehicle. Apparently it is not always done, or done properly. Chances are good that if you ask the dealer to do it, they will make the car disappear for a while but probably not actually do the ILP.
IF he did, you would have a long wait or leave it with them. The ILP is supposed to be done from a COLD engine.
Your dealer says it only affects Idling? Well city driving may require a lot of idling. ------------------ Selecting the "mode" of floor, etc. merely selects which vents the air will flow from.
To turn the AC compressor off, you will need to push the AC button after the heater has been turned on. That button is on the extreme left side of the heater/ac panel, and controls a message that says "AC ON" or "AC OFF". That fan under the hood comes on when the "AC ON" is lit and the fan turns off when the "AC OFF" is lit, as does the compressor.
Let us know if the button works for you and if that makes any difference.
Took a trip over to the Toyota Highlander forums. Here is a post from page 2.
"I have now over 700 miles on the clock, and filled the tank 3 times. Unbelievably, the average mileage is still 13mpg. So, I took it to Toyota Service to check it out. They spend the whole day on it and found.... nothing. Everything normal. They dismissed me with a "come back if it's still the same after a 5000 mile break-in period". Excuse me? I can't tell you how disappointed I am. I love the car and the ride, but the gas mileage is worse than my previous 2003 Explorer with the 4.6L V8 engine. That made over 14 mpg and I traded it in for something supposedly more fuel efficient!!!!!!!!!!"
There are good and bad cars from every manufacturer. There are good and bad drivers of those cars.
Thanks, I didn't know turn the AC off will force the compressor to be off (I knew the other way is always true). That's not how my other cars operate (i.e., setting on defrost will involves compressor even with AC off). The manual isn't clear on that either, and on "Using the Heater" (p. 109), it only tells people to select the floor mode.
Apparently, the "service consultant" at my dealership did not know either. He fooled around with several switches, and still could not turn the engine cooling fan off. So he finally declared it was normal, and that's the way it is (i.e., the engine cooling fan is supposed to be on even if I only want heat).
BTW, for EX-L (my model), it looks to me you always have to hit the Auto switch and override it, even if you just want heat. Is there anyway to turn the heater on without having to turn on Auto first (assuming it was off).
Yes, I did ask my dealer to do the ILP, but they refused. I will try to do it myself this weekend if it does not rain. One question though, why is it a dealer preparation item and not done at the factory?
I went on a trip, which resulted in about 50-50 combination of city and highway with 14.8 MPG. Better than 10.5, but still way below the advertised.
Yes, I did ask my dealer to do the ILP, but they refused. I will try to do it myself this weekend if it does not rain. One question though, why is it a dealer preparation item and not done at the factory?
Factory disconnects a fuse to keep the battery from running down. Apparently that makes some part of the computer somewhat stupid. Doing the ILP gets it back on line I suppose.
Here is the official TSB. It is an Acrobat file. Go to page 3 left side just below the seat diagram for explanation of fuses and such. The ILP section also tells you when an ILP should be done again. Don't know if the car will run with the fuses disconnected, but might be a good Idea to see if they are in fact connected. The fuse and location are on page 1 RH side near the top. It says the tail lights won't work if they are not plugged in.
I printed an easy to follow step by step sequence page 12 at post 202 of this forum. Follow it exactly and you will spend very little actual time and it will be done correctly. Page 12 is an interesting page to read to the bottom.
it looks to me you always have to hit the Auto switch and override it, even if you just want heat. Is there anyway to turn the heater on without having to turn on Auto first (assuming it was off).
On the 03 the only way I know to turn it on is to push the "Auto" button. Then select with the "AC" button whether or not you want the compressor to run. You can select any (Vent) mode and still control the AC compressor with the "AC" button. With the car idling you can turn the compressor on and off with the "Ac" button and hear the cooling fan react accordingly.
Well, I don't have the heavy feet. For this Pilot, I almost never rev the rpm above 3000 (it shifts before that). I bought the Pilot to replace my Chrysler minivan, and the one the minivan replaced was a Chevy full-sized conversion van with 5.0L V8! Both (yeah, including the big one) had better mileage than this Pilot under the same driving condition. So I don't think my driving style is the culprit here unless I suddenly developed the heavy feet syndrome.
Several months ago our 03 started chattering and carrying on something terrible as the tranny attempted to lock up the torque converter at about 50 mph.
Nothing showed up on the computer and I was convinced the tranny was coming apart at the seams. It was a solid failure and the technician experienced the problem but had no idea the cause. Apparently HONDA tech support was no help.
A service writer that had come in late that day finally got involved. He said it sounded to him like a classic "Exhaust gas recirculator" (EGR) valve problem that had been a problem among the 03s a couple of years ago. The next morning they tested the EGR valve and it failed. They replaced it and all was well in "Camelot" once again.
All I can figure is that the EGR valve does something when the torque converter locks. It wasn't doing that something properly and the badly misfiring engine was causing the problem.
Point is, sometimes all our super technology can be our on worse enemy. Sometimes someone has to step up and say, "OH, I've seen that problem before". And even though it may not make a lot of sense, the simplest thing can FIX a big problem.
A longer while back, with less than 10K on the clock, that 03 suddenly decided to drop about 4 mpg across the board. Dealer was no help at all. Did a lot of research and reading in the Edmund Forums and ran across the ILP thing and how it had helped some Pilots. It looked simple so I did it. The good mileage, +1, returned. The +1 may have had to do with a weather change or "break in" magic. Still didn't make sense why it would suddenly get bad mileage, and was FIXED by doing the ILP..
Looking back over mileage and repair records it became evident that the battery had been disconnected, while finding a shorted wire, just before the "BAD" mileage appeared. BINGO!
A 10mm wrench and a few minutes of your time + the car idling near a half hour may or may not help. Still likely less time that driving to the dealer. If it doesn't help, at least one possibility has been eliminated.
I followed a friend's suggestion to drive "nice and easy" on my Honda Pilot for the first 1000 "break-in" miles.
During the break-in miles, I, sometime, drove > 65mph, but most of the time during the break-in period I drove 55-60mph.
Did I mess the MPG during the break-in period because I drove > 65 mph for few times (in rush to go to church on Sunday)? or 55-60mph was actually too fast already?
I think it is the rpm that matters more than the mph. I try not to exceed 3000 rpm during break-in. OTOH, you do want to drive at different speed, so all gears can get break in.
During the break-in period, I drove around 55mph on hwy; and around 40mph in local. the rpm never exceeded 2200 (i guess, it was just barely above 2000rpm).
How would I drive at different speed? I mean should I drive around 20-30 mph in local so it could get the lower gears to break-in; and drive very fast on the free-way to get the high gears (i thought the way I drove should have already had the high gear (5) to break-in already).
Is it too late to get the other gears to break-in?
I think you are fine. Even if you drive 40mph local, you did start from 0 to 40, no? And judged by the fact you don't accelerate fast (i.e., the gear shifts around 2200rpm), you should have plenty of time in low gears. If you want to be on the safe side, you can always try to stay on the lower speed a little bit longer each time (providing it is safe to do so). And since you've already hit the 5th gear, you don't need to worry about high gears. The point is not to accelerate too fast (which you seem be doing), so it has plenty of time stay in each gear as it accelerates.
Thanks for your information. I did start from 0 to 40 (and accelerated the speed slowly). I could try to stay on the lower speed a longer by driving on the local street (well, early in the morning is always less traffic. hee hee).
Basically, I got this reply. I am not sure that person is being truthful or just trying to be "funny".
"Of course, it doesn't matter anyway because your Pilot is ruined by being driven over 65 during the break-in period. You should sell it to me ASAP before everything starts to fall apart. I will match whatever price your local salvage yard offers you."
edited it out some "comments" which I previously made.
I'd go with the idea that the other reply was just trying to be funny, jerk might be a bit extreme. I think the joke was mainly that you should sell him your new truck at a super cheap price. Your break-in procedures are fine, with newer cars the way that they are some will say that you don't even have to break them in as you did with cars in the 70's and before. Generally though, as long as you don't go nuts and drive like a crazy person and try to vary your speed a little you should be fine.
Oh, one question about ILP before I do it. Will ILP change/reset the oil life indicator, etc. on my car?
I don't know. :sick:
You can call the dealer and ask them if disconnecting the battery will disturb the Maintence Minder. Same problem might occur if we somehow ran our battery down.
However you can check the oil life indicator before the ILP. Then after the ILP. If it has changed, just get the oil changed about when it would have been due.
For instance if you check it and it says you have 50% oil life left and it has been 2000 miles since the last oil change. The next change should likely be do in about 2000 more miles unless you really change your driving habits.
I change my oil every 3500-4000 miles if possible.
The reply you got from "Eagle Pilot" was a waste of space and time. I think he has been cranking his tunes up a bit much and possibly done some brain damage. Probably wears his hat sideways too!
You are doing OK on the break in. Just don't run it for long periods at a constant RPM. I like to break one in on local and back roads which assures the RPM will vary.
If you are on the freeway and the car downshifts going up a long hill, the RPM will raise slightly and that is a good thing. On the freeway with a new engine I like to run say 70 for 10 or so minutes then 60 for 10 minutes.
I will try to drive on vary speed to make sure all gears are broken-in.
By the way, per your statement, would you suggest NOT to use the curise control on the freeway to stay on a constant RPM (for example, it seems it is around 2k to 2.2k for 65mph)?
The various gears and bearings throughout the car are "wearing-in" to each other and smoothing out rough parts, polishing each other, and so on. As this happens, things simply run smoother as roughness goes away and parts fit more precisely. Gas mileage can and likely will increase as this happens due to less friction.
All this happens as it should as long as we don't stress those new components with hard acceleration, and generally "Snatching" the car around. Doesn't much matter about constant speed and/or, varying speed as long as we give em a chance to wear-in..
However, The engine is a slightly different story. It too has gears and bearings that must wear-in. However, it also has the Pistons and the rings on those pistons. The pistons are moving back and forth inside the cylinder. It is a fairly snug fit. The rings on the Pistons assure as tight a fit as possible without binding. Think of them as a gasket between the piston and cylinder wall to assure maximum "Seal" as the piston travels, making the power. There are forces applied to those pistons.
FWIW: Each time the piston moves up and down one time the engine completes one revolution. Engine speed is measures in Revolutions Per Minute or RPM..
During break-in, if the engine spends too much time at a steady RPM, the cylinders can wear to that steady "force" and actually cause the cylinder to wear slightly egg shaped rather than perfectly round. Therefore the seal of the rings to the cylinder walls is minutely formed to a better seal at the Break-in RPM. Varying the RPM helps assure the rings/cylinder wall seal will be more uniform and a better seal at all RPM. This ensures full power forced on the pistons as combustion takes place. Resulting is better economy and longer engine life.
Varying the engine speed (RPM) such as rural and back road driving helps assure varying forces on the pistons and proper wear patterns on the cylinder walls and all. Simply moving away from a stop sign allows the engine rpm to rise and fall several times, which is a good thing for break-in.
The use of cruise control is fine. Actually the cruise control is maintaining the road speed and will cause the RPM to vary considerably on "Hilly" stretches of road as it may downshift the transmission and cause the RPM to rise and then fall.. On flat roads cruise still is fine, just remember to vary the speed every few minutes. Actually a 15-20 mph change every 10 minutes or so is probably beneficial.
Yes, this can be a bit of a pain. However is is not something we must do forever. We just want to give the engine a fighting chance to break-in properly. Light throttles and allowing the engine to climb to 3000-3500 rpm briefly is not going to hurt anything after the 1st 100 miles or so. Might be beneficial..
On this same theory, older engines used to benefit from a wide open throttle acceleration in the upper gears to help "seat" the rings. I haven't seen the new motors experience problems caused by bad break-in like the old vehicles (other than towing heavy loads prior to break-in).
On another point, I reviewed how my MPG improved in our Odyssey and I did notice a significant improvement at 15,000 miles. That happened to be when I replaced the OEM air filter with a NAPA gold line filter. As the article shows, up to a 50% increase can be realized by driving moderate and reducing the amount of time idling.
On this same theory, older engines used to benefit from a wide open throttle acceleration in the upper gears to help "seat" the rings.
Yep! That is what we did with the "Stick Shifts"!
Plan a Trip. Pick up the new car. Drive like ya had some sense, but keep varying the speed.
Typically alternate between 40-50 for a couple of hours. Then while in high rear (which might be 3rd), push the pedal to the floor til 60, let off, drop down to 40, full throttle to 60, 3-4 times. Cruise along at 60 for a few minutes. Repeat above and cruise at 40 for a few. And so on. After 200-300 miles of that, up the speeds to 40-70 for a 100 or so miles , then 40-80, etc....
I expect the same thing could have been done with the automatics since some/most didn't care to down shift at road speeds until the throttle was down near to the floor.
Getting gas also meant checking under the hood. Just might need oil or water. Especially during Break-in! Even a properly broken-in engine might need a quart of oil every 1000-1500 miles. Run it hard and it might need one much sooner.
I did the ILP this morning. Interesting thing, after I finished and entered the secret code to reset the radio; all my preset channels were still there! Does this mean that radio has its own NVM (non-volatile memory), or that I did not wipe out the memory right? (I hope it's the former. )
Anyway, I will see if I get any improvement in MPG.
04 EX-L/Navi with close to 40k... I average 18 in combined driving. On longer trips, just over 20 with the whole family on board.. I always use mid-grade (89) gas.
Did you have to reset your "Auto" driver window feature?
Others have reported not loosing stations on the later model's radios. Don't know if there is some type capacitor or something that will keep the stations "alive" for a few minutes or if they simply stay set until changed by the operator.
Sure hope your efforts will give you some help on the mileage thing.
No, I did not find any loose fuse. The battery was disconnected for 5 minutes.
Regarding the radio, I thought radio must have its own NVM (at least, they need to store the activation code), so it is possible that the preset channels were also kept inside the NVM.
I did not try to reset the "auto window" feature, because I hate the feature, and much prefer to do without it. I rarely want my window to go all the way down, and I often have to fumble with the switch several times to get the window to the desired position. However, to my surprise this morning, I found out that my "auto window" is still there. So now I start to wonder if 5 minutes of battery disconnection was enough.
You can click "Real World MPG Estimates from Drivers Like You" to find out the real world MPG info. You can also report your own real word MPG to the site. Currently, the database is kind of small; I wish more people would participate so that the data is not skewed by one or two individuals.
Just filled my third tank today on an EX-L AWD. I've been averaging about 17MPG overall. Well below the listed MPG. I've been driving fairly conservatively as well.
I'm hoping it gets better. These gas prices are just silly.
I wish we got 17 mpg. My wife is reporting 13.0 mpg on a new EX-L 2WD. Ouch! It's mostly around town, short trips. They could have at least let the gauge needle hang around full for a while, like some cars do, then rocket to empty. This one just starts dropping immediately. Where is the accuracy in the EPA MPG estimates? It seems that some model estimates are fairly close, while others are significantly in error. My SAAB, for example, was estimated at 19 MPG city, and that is what it gets (it's actually a little better). The Pilot is off by about 30%, in the wrong direction.
Since I know you view this thread regularly, check out this little story, I think you will enjoy it. Shows why maintenance can pay dividends. Hope the Pilot will last that long. If you need a hint on why this story is significant to me check out My Carspace, too.
Bought it in September 2006. 12,567 miles on it. I have kept details on all 49 trips to the gas station. All City (7 data points at 98%+ city driving) = 13.56mpg Mixed (1/3 Hwy:2/3 City) (12 data points 61-69% city) = 14.86mpg All Hwy (13 data points at 92%+ hwy) = 19.4mpg
Bought it in September 2006. 12,567 miles on it. I have kept details on all 49 trips to the gas station. All City (7 data points at 98%+ city driving) = 13.56mpg Mixed (1/3 Hwy:2/3 City) (12 data points 61-69% city) = 14.86mpg All Hwy (13 data points at 92%+ hwy) = 19.4mpg
Overall = 16.4mpg for 51.6% Highway and 48.4% City
I have a 2007 4wd EXL as well and get between 13.5 and 19.5 MPG depending on city/highway driving, far from what was posted! I have 6500 miles so far and hoping for the MPG to get better. The dealer tells me they will not even consider looking at any MPG issues until 7500 miles. There are some owner on this site that had suggested that the MPG gets better after passing 7-8K miles. !!! I keep hoping. I used to drive a 95 buick roadmaster wagon 8 Cyl. 5.7 engine which gave me a better MPG than my Pilot !!! I still love my pilot though !!!
I think it is what it is and I'm skeptical that it's going to improve. I've heard many accounts of mpg improving after break-in, but I've owned many vehicles and have never personally experienced that.
My mpg has actually been trending worse. I think it's probably due to winter gas and leaving vehicle running to warm up inside. But anyway I've been getting between 15.5 and 16.5 on most tanks the past few months. Haven't hit 17+ for a very long time. Admittedly though, it's about what I expected by reading this forum before leasing a Pilot. Actually, I was afraid I might see tanks of 14mpg. I'm glad it hasn't been quite that bad, at least not for me. Odyssey was better, but not by much. Bottom line is that we cannot expect too much in the way of fuel efficiency from these large heavy 8-seaters.
For our new 2007 2WD EX-L pilot, with only around 1000 miles on the car, we usually get 19-20 mpg in mixed hwy/city, driving to and from work. We track our mileage every fill-up.
However, for long trip, purely highway, our pilot just returned 26.5 mpg, it was a 400 mile round trip between NC and Northen VA (Ikea) in a fairly hilly condition. The cruise control was always on, set to 70-75 mph. There were 2 people and a lot of cargo on the car.
I think this is not bad for a car rated 18 city and 24 hwy. IMO, it all depends on how you drive the car and the condition where the car is driven.
Comments
Kip
Before ILP Overall average MPG 12.4 Best Highway MPG 14.5
After ILP Intown MPG 13.1 Highway MPG 20.51!
The highway MPG was based on a total 0f 195.3 miles. About 95 miles of that at 62 mph and 100 miles at 78 mph.
One thing that I've noticed about the V-TEC engine is that the "power band" kicks in at very light throttle pressure and at lower RPM's than would be expected. The throttle seems to be very sensitive. Once you slightly hit the gas pedal, the tranny drops a gear and accelerates very quickly. On my Camry and Crew Cab Chevy it seems like you have to press the gas pedal quite a bit harder to get the engine and tranny to kick into passing gear. So I think the ILP cured our Highway MPG , but it seems like the City MPG is destined to be lower because of the V-TEC's quick throttle kickdown. ( Size 13 shoes!) Thanks again for all of your input Kip. I wouldn't have known to do this without your help! I'll keep you posted on our future MPG.
And you are right, enough throttle pressure to result in a downshift may burn extra fuel. It is the little things that over a period of time will contribute too or deduct from fuel efficiency.
Even in relatively traffic free areas we press and let off that throttle more than we realize. Sometimes, when you have nothing else on your mind, count the number of inputs to that throttle for a couple of miles.
Then there are things like approaching a stop sign. There are cars sitting there. If we arrive while they are still there, we stop, then go a little, then stop and go, and so on. What if we had been able to slow down, back there, so that there were no cars at the sign when we arrived. We only have to stop and start once. When that car turned off and I wanted to get back to cruising speed, could I have used less throttle? It can become a game.
Chances are good that no one on this forum is going to starve or miss a house note because their Pilot gets 14 mpg instead of 17 mpg city, or 22 instead of 26+ on the road.
To me it is just a challenge. I could maybe get even better driving at 50-55 on the road, but some things have their limits. :shades: I'll stick to the 60-65-70 average with a steady foot. I don't wish to be that old dude blocking traffic. Not yet anyway!
BTW, Apparently Your were/are an Ernhardt "Fan". Me too! I live 8 miles from Atlanta International Raceway and have never attended a race there. Yet I have attended the Daytona 500. Doesn't make sense, does it!
Kip
I also noticed that when I have the heater on, the engine cooling fan would automatically come on, and never wait for the engine to warm up even in the cold morning. I wonder if this affects my MPG. My dealer first told me that cooling fan is on because the AC (or compressor) is on. But when I checked the manual and made sure the compressor was not on (by override the "auto" setting and set it to floor only), it still did the same thing. Now my dealer just told me "that's normal!"
Anyway, the dealer blamed my poor MPG on "individual driver difference." But I have had other cars/vans before, and I have never had one that exhibits such poor MPG in comparison to the EPA estimate (in the same driving routes)!
I will try ILP when the weather warms up, so I can let the car idle outside instead of inside my garage.
I will keep my finger crossed. In the mean time, any suggestions?
Several folks on the Pilot, CR-V, and Fit forums have benefited from doing the ILP.
Do it properly and you have nothing to loose and possibly much to gain. It is Part of the GET READY PROCEDURE. Should be done before you take delivery of the vehicle. Apparently it is not always done, or done properly. Chances are good that if you ask the dealer to do it, they will make the car disappear for a while but probably not actually do the ILP.
IF he did, you would have a long wait or leave it with them. The ILP is supposed to be done from a COLD engine.
Your dealer says it only affects Idling? Well city driving may require a lot of idling.
------------------
Selecting the "mode" of floor, etc. merely selects which vents the air will flow from.
To turn the AC compressor off, you will need to push the AC button after the heater has been turned on. That button is on the extreme left side of the heater/ac panel, and controls a message that says "AC ON" or "AC OFF".
That fan under the hood comes on when the "AC ON" is lit and the fan turns off when the "AC OFF" is lit, as does the compressor.
Let us know if the button works for you and if that makes any difference.
Kip
Here is a post from page 2.
"I have now over 700 miles on the clock, and filled the tank 3 times. Unbelievably, the average mileage is still 13mpg. So, I took it to Toyota Service to check it out. They spend the whole day on it and found.... nothing. Everything normal. They dismissed me with a "come back if it's still the same after a 5000 mile break-in period". Excuse me?
I can't tell you how disappointed I am. I love the car and the ride, but the gas mileage is worse than my previous 2003 Explorer with the 4.6L V8 engine. That made over 14 mpg and I traded it in for something supposedly more fuel efficient!!!!!!!!!!"
There are good and bad cars from every manufacturer. There are good and bad drivers of those cars.
BTW...What Really Saves Gas? And How Much?
Steve (HOST) posted this over on the Highlander MPG forum!
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/106842/article.html
Kip
Apparently, the "service consultant" at my dealership did not know either. He fooled around with several switches, and still could not turn the engine cooling fan off. So he finally declared it was normal, and that's the way it is (i.e., the engine cooling fan is supposed to be on even if I only want heat).
BTW, for EX-L (my model), it looks to me you always have to hit the Auto switch and override it, even if you just want heat. Is there anyway to turn the heater on without having to turn on Auto first (assuming it was off).
Yes, I did ask my dealer to do the ILP, but they refused. I will try to do it myself this weekend if it does not rain. One question though, why is it a dealer preparation item and not done at the factory?
I went on a trip, which resulted in about 50-50 combination of city and highway with 14.8 MPG. Better than 10.5, but still way below the advertised.
Factory disconnects a fuse to keep the battery from running down. Apparently that makes some part of the computer somewhat stupid. Doing the ILP gets it back on line I suppose.
Here is the official TSB. It is an Acrobat file. Go to page 3 left side just below the seat diagram for explanation of fuses and such. The ILP section also tells you when an ILP should be done again. Don't know if the car will run with the fuses disconnected, but might be a good Idea to see if they are in fact connected. The fuse and location are on page 1 RH side near the top. It says the tail lights won't work if they are not plugged in.
http://www.hondalac.com/service/Bulletins/x02-029e.pdf
I printed an easy to follow step by step sequence page 12 at post 202 of this forum. Follow it exactly and you will spend very little actual time and it will be done correctly. Page 12 is an interesting page to read to the bottom.
it looks to me you always have to hit the Auto switch and override it, even if you just want heat. Is there anyway to turn the heater on without having to turn on Auto first (assuming it was off).
On the 03 the only way I know to turn it on is to push the "Auto" button. Then select with the "AC" button whether or not you want the compressor to run. You can select any (Vent) mode and still control the AC compressor with the "AC" button. With the car idling you can turn the compressor on and off with the "Ac" button and hear the cooling fan react accordingly.
Kip
Nothing showed up on the computer and I was convinced the tranny was coming apart at the seams. It was a solid failure and the technician experienced the problem but had no idea the cause. Apparently HONDA tech support was no help.
A service writer that had come in late that day finally got involved. He said it sounded to him like a classic "Exhaust gas recirculator" (EGR) valve problem that had been a problem among the 03s a couple of years ago. The next morning they tested the EGR valve and it failed. They replaced it and all was well in "Camelot" once again.
All I can figure is that the EGR valve does something when the torque converter locks. It wasn't doing that something properly and the badly misfiring engine was causing the problem.
Point is, sometimes all our super technology can be our on worse enemy. Sometimes someone has to step up and say, "OH, I've seen that problem before". And even though it may not make a lot of sense, the simplest thing can FIX a big problem.
A longer while back, with less than 10K on the clock, that 03 suddenly decided to drop about 4 mpg across the board. Dealer was no help at all. Did a lot of research and reading in the Edmund Forums and ran across the ILP thing and how it had helped some Pilots.
It looked simple so I did it. The good mileage, +1, returned. The +1 may have had to do with a weather change or "break in" magic. Still didn't make sense why it would suddenly get bad mileage, and was FIXED by doing the ILP..
Looking back over mileage and repair records it became evident that the battery had been disconnected, while finding a shorted wire, just before the "BAD" mileage appeared. BINGO!
A 10mm wrench and a few minutes of your time + the car idling near a half hour may or may not help. Still likely less time that driving to the dealer. If it doesn't help, at least one possibility has been eliminated.
Kip
Thanks in advance.
During the break-in miles, I, sometime, drove > 65mph, but most of the time during the break-in period I drove 55-60mph.
Did I mess the MPG during the break-in period because I drove > 65 mph for few times (in rush to go to church on Sunday)? or 55-60mph was actually too fast already?
How would I drive at different speed? I mean should I drive around 20-30 mph in local so it could get the lower gears to break-in; and drive very fast on the free-way to get the high gears (i thought the way I drove should have already had the high gear (5) to break-in already).
Is it too late to get the other gears to break-in?
By the way, I posted the similar question from Here and I got this kind of reply.
Basically, I got this reply. I am not sure that person is being truthful or just trying to be "funny".
"Of course, it doesn't matter anyway because your Pilot is ruined by being driven over 65 during the break-in period. You should sell it to me ASAP before everything starts to fall apart. I will match whatever price your local salvage yard offers you."
edited it out some "comments" which I previously made.
S
I don't know. :sick:
You can call the dealer and ask them if disconnecting the battery will disturb the Maintence Minder. Same problem might occur if we somehow ran our battery down.
However you can check the oil life indicator before the ILP. Then after the ILP. If it has changed, just get the oil changed about when it would have been due.
For instance if you check it and it says you have 50% oil life left and it has been 2000 miles since the last oil change. The next change should likely be do in about 2000 more miles unless you really change your driving habits.
I change my oil every 3500-4000 miles if possible.
Kip
You are doing OK on the break in. Just don't run it for long periods at a constant RPM. I like to break one in on local and back roads which assures the RPM will vary.
If you are on the freeway and the car downshifts going up a long hill, the RPM will raise slightly and that is a good thing. On the freeway with a new engine I like to run say 70 for 10 or so minutes then 60 for 10 minutes.
Kip
By the way, per your statement, would you suggest NOT to use the curise control on the freeway to stay on a constant RPM (for example, it seems it is around 2k to 2.2k for 65mph)?
The various gears and bearings throughout the car are "wearing-in" to each other and smoothing out rough parts, polishing each other, and so on. As this happens, things simply run smoother as roughness goes away and parts fit more precisely. Gas mileage can and likely will increase as this happens due to less friction.
All this happens as it should as long as we don't stress those new components with hard acceleration, and generally "Snatching" the car around. Doesn't much matter about constant speed and/or, varying speed as long as we give em a chance to wear-in..
However, The engine is a slightly different story. It too has gears and bearings that must wear-in. However, it also has the Pistons and the rings on those pistons. The pistons are moving back and forth inside the cylinder. It is a fairly snug fit. The rings on the Pistons assure as tight a fit as possible without binding. Think of them as a gasket between the piston and cylinder wall to assure maximum "Seal" as the piston travels, making the power. There are forces applied to those pistons.
FWIW: Each time the piston moves up and down one time the engine completes one revolution. Engine speed is measures in Revolutions Per Minute or RPM..
During break-in, if the engine spends too much time at a steady RPM, the cylinders can wear to that steady "force" and actually cause the cylinder to wear slightly egg shaped rather than perfectly round. Therefore the seal of the rings to the cylinder walls is minutely formed to a better seal at the Break-in RPM. Varying the RPM helps assure the rings/cylinder wall seal will be more uniform and a better seal at all RPM. This ensures full power forced on the pistons as combustion takes place. Resulting is better economy and longer engine life.
Varying the engine speed (RPM) such as rural and back road driving helps assure varying forces on the pistons and proper wear patterns on the cylinder walls and all. Simply moving away from a stop sign allows the engine rpm to rise and fall several times, which is a good thing for break-in.
The use of cruise control is fine. Actually the cruise control is maintaining the road speed and will cause the RPM to vary considerably on "Hilly" stretches of road as it may downshift the transmission and cause the RPM to rise and then fall.. On flat roads cruise still is fine, just remember to vary the speed every few minutes. Actually a 15-20 mph change every 10 minutes or so is probably beneficial.
Yes, this can be a bit of a pain. However is is not something we must do forever. We just want to give the engine a fighting chance to break-in properly. Light throttles and allowing the engine to climb to 3000-3500 rpm briefly is not going to hurt anything after the 1st 100 miles or so. Might be beneficial..
Kip
On another point, I reviewed how my MPG improved in our Odyssey and I did notice a significant improvement at 15,000 miles. That happened to be when I replaced the OEM air filter with a NAPA gold line filter. As the article shows, up to a 50% increase can be realized by driving moderate and reducing the amount of time idling.
Yep! That is what we did with the "Stick Shifts"!
Plan a Trip. Pick up the new car. Drive like ya had some sense, but keep varying the speed.
Typically alternate between 40-50 for a couple of hours.
Then while in high rear (which might be 3rd), push the pedal to the floor til 60, let off, drop down to 40, full throttle to 60, 3-4 times. Cruise along at 60 for a few minutes. Repeat above and cruise at 40 for a few. And so on. After 200-300 miles of that, up the speeds to 40-70 for a 100 or so miles , then 40-80, etc....
I expect the same thing could have been done with the automatics since some/most didn't care to down shift at road speeds until the throttle was down near to the floor.
Getting gas also meant checking under the hood. Just might need oil or water. Especially during Break-in! Even a properly broken-in engine might need a quart of oil every 1000-1500 miles. Run it hard and it might need one much sooner.
The good ole days! :confuse:
Yep!
Kip
Anyway, I will see if I get any improvement in MPG.
How long was the battery disconnected?
Did you have to reset your "Auto" driver window feature?
Others have reported not loosing stations on the later model's radios. Don't know if there is some type capacitor or something that will keep the stations "alive" for a few minutes or if they simply stay set until changed by the operator.
Sure hope your efforts will give you some help on the mileage thing.
Kip
The battery was disconnected for 5 minutes.
Regarding the radio, I thought radio must have its own NVM (at least, they need to store the activation code), so it is possible that the preset channels were also kept inside the NVM.
I did not try to reset the "auto window" feature, because I hate the feature, and much prefer to do without it. I rarely want my window to go all the way down, and I often have to fumble with the switch several times to get the window to the desired position. However, to my surprise this morning, I found out that my "auto window" is still there. So now I start to wonder if 5 minutes of battery disconnection was enough.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=garage
You can click "Real World MPG Estimates from Drivers Like You" to find out the real world MPG info. You can also report your own real word MPG to the site. Currently, the database is kind of small; I wish more people would participate so that the data is not skewed by one or two individuals.
I'm hoping it gets better. These gas prices are just silly.
I'm afraid they will get a lot sillier before Summer arrives.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I bet you are right. Very possible we will see sustained $3 for regular, all summer, and maybe longer.
I need to fill the lawn mower gas cans before the "Summer" prices kick in. :sick:
Kip
Kip
Since I know you view this thread regularly, check out this little story, I think you will enjoy it. Shows why maintenance can pay dividends. Hope the Pilot will last that long. If you need a hint on why this story is significant to me check out My Carspace, too.
Joe
http://www.sacbee.com/130/story/152695.html
http://www.carspace.com/justaveragejoe
Pure city mpg = 15.5
Pure highway mpg (75 mph avg) = 22
All City Driving = 14-16mpg
Mixed Driving = 19-21mpg
All Highway = N/A
All City (7 data points at 98%+ city driving) = 13.56mpg
Mixed (1/3 Hwy:2/3 City) (12 data points 61-69% city) = 14.86mpg
All Hwy (13 data points at 92%+ hwy) = 19.4mpg
All City (7 data points at 98%+ city driving) = 13.56mpg
Mixed (1/3 Hwy:2/3 City) (12 data points 61-69% city) = 14.86mpg
All Hwy (13 data points at 92%+ hwy) = 19.4mpg
Overall = 16.4mpg for 51.6% Highway and 48.4% City
What do you get when you divide total miles by total gallons?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
5,266.6 miles driven divided by 313.832 gallons equals 16.78mpg.
My driving is similar to yours. No whole tanks of only highway. But all tanks have some highway, mostly short trips of 5 to 10 miles.
My mpg has actually been trending worse. I think it's probably due to winter gas and leaving vehicle running to warm up inside. But anyway I've been getting between 15.5 and 16.5 on most tanks the past few months. Haven't hit 17+ for a very long time. Admittedly though, it's about what I expected by reading this forum before leasing a Pilot. Actually, I was afraid I might see tanks of 14mpg. I'm glad it hasn't been quite that bad, at least not for me. Odyssey was better, but not by much. Bottom line is that we cannot expect too much in the way of fuel efficiency from these large heavy 8-seaters.
However, for long trip, purely highway, our pilot just returned 26.5 mpg, it was a 400 mile round trip between NC and Northen VA (Ikea) in a fairly hilly condition. The cruise control was always on, set to 70-75 mph. There were 2 people and a lot of cargo on the car.
I think this is not bad for a car rated 18 city and 24 hwy.
I've posted numbers like yours and actually been criticized for posting "Unrealistic numbers that give false expectations." (paraphrased)
Seems to me that most everything about your Pilot is "Right", including the drivers!
At 65 mph you can possibly get 28-30 mpg. Might be interesting to see how well you can actually do!
I don't know of any car Ive enjoyed owning as much as the Pilot. It does everything promised, PLUS!
Kip
(PS: flame away unbelievers)
Umkai's Pilot is 2WD. Isn't your Pilot 4WD?
David
Yes, mine is 4wd. I believe his 2wd can get close or possibly over 30 mpg if driven with pure economy in mind.
Seems the engine on the 2wd might also have the gadget that disables 3 cylinders randomly when cruising, for better economy. I might be wrong on that.
Thanks,
Kip