Well, I was only replying to ops1's post -- I assumed the number to be correct and actually didn't estimate the GVWR.
The Pilot EX's curb weight is 4431 lbs and the max load capacity is 1320 lbs, so the vehicle achieves a GVWR of only 5751 lbs, not 5954.
So anyway, armed with this knowledge, I think that one can safely say that it's unrealistic to assume that the '06 Pilot will be meeting the 6000-lb minimum. Sorry, ops1: even if the tax break is still in place, 249 lbs is just too much weight IMHO.
You don't have to estimate it - the GVWR is on the sticker on the side of the driver door (to be honest, I don't know how it is calculated). It is listed on several sites (yahoo.autos and autoweb, among others) as 5,954 lbs. Anyone with a 2005, please chime in!
Well then why not just buy a regular car instead (say, a Toyota Camry) since the 179 deduction for a regular car (like a Camry LE 4 Cylinder) is $20,000ish...
I'm sure a Toyota Camry LE 4 Cylinder gets much better gas mileage than a Lexus LX470...
I'd rather give up $5000 in deductions and get better fuel economy instead...
I agree with you in part, but the difference in deductions is far greater than $5,000 because you can't deduct $20,000 under 179 for a car. The difference in tax treatment is startling, wrong and unfair but not something you can change (it is even more absurd compared to the minimal tax benefits associated with hybrids).
I need a vehicle with more seating and have decided to get an SUV (I will probably keep my 4 cylinder Camry for personal use). As far as fuel economy is concerned, the Pilot seems to get better mileage than most 7 or 8 seat SUVs.
I don't mean to get too far off topic, but if the 2006 Pilot has the 6,000 lbs rating and qualifies for the deduction (which I will double-check with my accountant before buying), then the Pilot definitely moves up to first on my list.
From the looks of the spy shot, the Pilot might get XM radio and side markers that coincide with the blinkers. I can barely make out a little body-colored antenna (I.e. like the one in the 2004-2005 Accord EX with leather and EX V6). Also, from the looks of it, the headrests have not changed. I can still see light in the center of the headrest. I don't know if this will be the exact vehicle that Honda will produce, but if it is, the headrests won't change from the current vehicle.
Here's one of the latest spy shots of the '06 Pilot. Aside from some black tape covering the chrome "H" badge and grille slats, the vehicle appears to be completely uncovered and this photo isn't computer-enhanced as far as I can tell. (Click here to see another one -- I'll try to find an image of the rear.)
Is it just me or does this vehicle need 17"wheels. I love the PILOT but I wish they offered these larger wheels so that it looked more like a truck and less like a minivan... Any word as to whether this will be an option?
Thank You for the latest without disguise photo of the 06 Pilot, I'm glad that they finally did some mid-model changes to the Pilot, because the present 03 to 05 Pilots are getting so numerous over here in Southern California. This way this next model run of 06 to 07 would eventually be about 35 percent of the Pilot population. Even with 2WD I don't expect them to sell more, unless they got employee discount pricing nowadays
No, I'm thinking the same thing: at least an inch too small.
I haven't heard anything regarding this so far -- note that all of the disguised test mules have wheel designs identical to those shown above. If the Ridgeline is any indicator, however, then we could very well see 17" wheels standard.
...hmm... I'll be honest, maybe its just me but I'm not sure I like the new front end design over the old.. I like the projectors, but not sure I like what they did with the grill, etc... more boxier than the prior design. I'll reserve final judgement til I see it in person.
I have also seen the Gross Vehicle Weight listed as 5,954 lbs in several places. I also heard that with certain options, like the tow package, the GVW can surpass the 6000 lb mark. I heard you need to be sure the new GVW is written on your purchase papers and then it should be OK. It seems to make sense, since I would think the tow package would weigh more than 46 lbs.
"Are you the source of the spy shots or someone else?"
No: these are from Autobild.de -- a German site (if Deutche isn't your forte, click here for an English translation). Note: to peruse through photo galleries, you must view the original (i.e., non-translated) webpage.
So....In my search for a 05 Pilot I was told by several dealers that the 05 Pilot did indeed put in Curtain Airbags. Now I got down to brass tacks with a dealer on price for an 05. I happned to mention the Curtain Airbags once more, and was now told no Curtain airbags on the 05. so what's the deal who's right and who's wrong? Did maybe the later built cars have them? should I wait for the 06? I got some good prices on an 05 right now. Should I wait another month before buying the 05 Pilot can they get any lower?
All Pilots have been equipped with front-seat torso-protective side airbags since introduction, but side curtain airbags won't show until the '06 arrives this September.
nowakj66, my wish list for the Pilot includes a telescopic steering adjustment as well. I feel that standard VSA is more important, though. Hopefully we'll be getting both, eh?
I just want to correct my previous comment. I realize now that the gross vehicle weight RATING must be over 6000 lbs, not just the actual weight. So I am now doubtful that adding a tow package would work to make it deductible. If someone else has heard otherwise, please comment.
I spent a little bit of time looking into your suggestion. What I found seemed consistent with your more recent post. You have to figure that the Pilot is desirable enough that if all you had to do was add an option or two, then the dealers would have picked up on it and would suggest it to buyers. I have called around to some dealers and they say they don't have any specs yet and won't until the cars arrive in September. I am going to try to hold off on buying anything until at least the specs are available.
I think VCM will be added and that is a favorable engine enhancement, at least as far as mileage goes. (BTW I was at the dealer for an oil change and they indicated VCM will be on leather clad Pilots only - just like the Ody). Guess we will find out when it comes out.
My dealer told me that the '06 will definitely not offer both NAV and the rear entertainment (DVD) system together in the same car. I was hoping this would have been the case, as I want both!
Has there been any indication what the pricing will be like for the 2006 Pilot? I'm lookin at 2005's right now, but if there won't be a significant bump, I'm thinking about waiting for the '06 in September.
Of course I suppose the more relevant question is how close to invoice I could get on a 2006 versus a 2005. I don't imagine dealers will be willing to negotiate much on an '06 right out of the gate.
i got an internet quote for 30,100 for a tricked out Honda 2005 pilot lth/dvd. salesman indicated that 2006 usually cost 500 more that the last years model. go online request a quote, dealers 40 miles away will regularly be 1-2k lower than local dealers. the 2006 honda pilot should have side curtain air bags for 3rd row seat. this info was posted on hondapreview.com before the site was censured, coincidently right about the same time Honda launched a sale to get rid of 2005's. for safety and resale it is worth the extra 500 to wait. if anyone else has any ideas to buy Pilots (or any cars) cheaply please let me know. i dread walking into the dealership and negotiating with these guys.
I spoke with a dealership owner this morning. He confirmed that the '06 Pilot will have 3rd row side curtain airbags -- main reason for me to wait for the '06. He said the 2WD option should actually bring the price down and the MPG up with the VCM feature. He did not believe DVD and NAV will both be available together. Unfortunately for those of us who want a white one, the only leather interior color is that awful green. He had just put his initial order in and reserved a black/tan leather fully loaded (DVD) one for me! Pricing won't be in until early September; delivery mid- to late-September.
The only thing I didn't like was how the CD changer for the '05 Pilot gets kicked under the driver's seat when you add the NAV feature. I like the convience of the in-dash CD changers.
My dealer told me that the '06 will definitely not offer both NAV and the rear entertainment (DVD) system together in the same car. I was hoping this would have been the case, as I want both!
FWIW, the new Subaru B9 Tribeca can be had with both NAV and rear entertainment; or just NAV, or just rear entertainment. It's your choice.
I just landed a 2005 EX-L for $28.3K (the sticker with dealer add-ons was $33.2K). I did as much research on 2006 models as I could, and even looked at pre-owned 2004 models with low mileage. Honda resale values are so good that I couldn't justify a savings of only $500 - $1000 for a 2004 with so many missing features (VSA, sunroof, less powerful engine, etc.) The 2006 has some improvements (outlined in this post) however it was not enough to justify the premium I would have to pay for it.
Someone asked how to get a great deal. Another person mentioned negotiating with a dealer outisde of your home town. That is exactly how I did it. I called some dealers in a large metro area a state away (where I was planning to visit the next week anyway) and got them to tenatively committ on a great price (just under $29K) and then I went to my local dealer and told them, "I am traveling North next week and dealer there has a great deal on Pilots. I would really like to keep my buisness local, so I wanted to give you the opportunity to beat the price." I showed them the price, and said, "No suprises or extra fees (except TTL)." To my suprise, they came back with a much better price, with one stipulation: No special orders. I took a look at the inventory (they were only missing one color in the EX-L trim level) and found the trim/color I had been eyeballing for the last two months.
Everything went pretty smooth at that point. The only hiccup was when they tried to slap a $185 application fee on. I reminded them about no extra fees, and they quickly removed it without any fuss.
The 2006 has some improvements (outlined in this post) however it was not enough to justify the premium I would have to pay for it.
You are making an assumption that the 2006 model will command a "premium". Friendly reminder: this is not 2003. It would not be an exaggeration to call this a buyers market for SUVs.
It will get even better in 2006 when the newly redesigned Hyundai Santa Fe hits the market.
If any Honda dealers do try to charge a "premium", I would yawn in their face and go the next dealer.
Folks: I am looking in my Honda Pilot rear view mirror and I can see the Hyundai Santa Fe catching up fast.
The all new 2006 Hyundai Santa Fe is looking very good in the Spy shots. The Pilot is going to have some serious competition. Here's why:
-Bigger dimensions: length and width. -3 rd passenger row introduced. -Conservative/toned down styling -Standard safety features including side curtain air bag.
It will be interesting to see how "above invoice" the Pilot will sell for once the Santa Fe is on the road. My bet is that the Pilot will sell for Invoice + $500. Any takers?
As far as the 2006 Pilot, just don't buy it right away. I got a quote for $30,900 plus tax and license for a 2006 EX-L. I'll wait, its not a redesign-they can hype it all they want and the units will just sit there.
Also, look at that Honda Truck, there are 4k to 6k in discounts on these units.- fgor a 2006!
I'll wait, its not a redesign-they can hype it all they want and the units will just sit there.
I concur!
The 2005 sales figures for the Pilot are not impressive. In fact, if you notice, Honda has the biggest rebate being offered on the 2005 Pilot. Without this rebate dealers will not be able to sell these models.
Don't get me wrong, I like Honda products and have driven them for over ten years. I just don't see how you can restyle something, call it new, and then demand MSRP, for a vehicle that has been out for three years.
I just found out that the 2006 will not have adjustable front headrest. This and the 2005 seating in general bothered me. I hope the salesperson is wrong, but at this point, I have to rely on information he has. If someone has other information about the headrest for 2006 please advise.I think my '04 Accord LX's seating is way more comfortable.
If I go with a 2006, I will just wait until November/December. I may just go with the 2005, because I don't lilke the 2006 front end based on the one spy photo.
We have nav in both our '05 Pilot and '05 Odyssey. The Odyssey system is FAR better with a larger screen and voice command ability. Hope the '06 Pilot gets the same system.
keep in mind that this is just a MMC and any dealer that tries to tell you its a FMC shouldn't deserve your business.
It won't command MSRP, thats for sure. Invoice + a few hundred should be the MAXIMUM someone should pay for any Pilot.
This isn't 2003, when waiting lists were long, Pilots were in hot demand and short supply, gas is cheap, and the Highlander didn't have a 3rd row seat. (then again, the Highlander's 3rd row is a joke)
"I just found out that the 2006 will not have adjustable front headrest."
That salesperson didn't know what he was talking about. Take a look at this new spy shot. It appears that at least the entire seatback has been redesigned. It definitely looks better! Please note, however, that the vehicle will sport rollover-sensing side curtain airbags -- these are very important safety devices that the current model lacks. I still don't have word on whether stability control (VSA) will be standard or not. The facelift has grown on me a bit, and I now actually think the '06 front-end looks a bit better (though I don't think it holds a candle to the new '07 Santa Fe in terms of styling). I am disappointed in the reports I'm hearing that the rear-end wasn't touched. Other than the front seats and some display revisions, the interior will change little overall. An all-new model should be out in 12-18 months.
I hope you are right, but who knows exactly at this point what changes there will be. As I mentioned previously, the salespeoples will tell you anything. We will just have to wait until official Honda information comes out to see what changes exist, but look for some discounts towards the end of 2005.
This picture does look better than the other spy photo. However, I can't really tell the difference between the 2005 and the 2006, except for the headlights.
Another concern, is whether the hp figures will drop. Per another website, the Acura MDX will have 12 less horsepower in 2006 than in 2005. I wonder if this will effect the Pilot.
I am beginning to reconsider and just getting a 2005, but the lack of VSA on the EX sucks.
Comments
Mike:
You have the incorrect GVWR. If the Pilot were this heavy, the gas mileage would be 15 mpg!
All the manufacturers are making efforts to *reduce* the weight of the vehicle. This results in immediate payback in the form of improved gas mileage.
The Pilot EX's curb weight is 4431 lbs and the max load capacity is 1320 lbs, so the vehicle achieves a GVWR of only 5751 lbs, not 5954.
So anyway, armed with this knowledge, I think that one can safely say that it's unrealistic to assume that the '06 Pilot will be meeting the 6000-lb minimum. Sorry, ops1: even if the tax break is still in place, 249 lbs is just too much weight IMHO.
Mike
I'm sure a Toyota Camry LE 4 Cylinder gets much better gas mileage than a Lexus LX470...
I'd rather give up $5000 in deductions and get better fuel economy instead...
I need a vehicle with more seating and have decided to get an SUV (I will probably keep my 4 cylinder Camry for personal use). As far as fuel economy is concerned, the Pilot seems to get better mileage than most 7 or 8 seat SUVs.
I don't mean to get too far off topic, but if the 2006 Pilot has the 6,000 lbs rating and qualifies for the deduction (which I will double-check with my accountant before buying), then the Pilot definitely moves up to first on my list.
Mike
No, I'm thinking the same thing: at least an inch too small.
I haven't heard anything regarding this so far -- note that all of the disguised test mules have wheel designs identical to those shown above. If the Ridgeline is any indicator, however, then we could very well see 17" wheels standard.
I'll be on the look-out for 'em, though....
Mike
If this is it, what do others think?
I'm more concerned about what the changes are under the sheetmetal for '06.
As for weight, I would hope Honda would find a way to shave pounds off, given where gas prices are going...
It's my pleasure, Joe!
"Are you the source of the spy shots or someone else?"
No: these are from Autobild.de -- a German site (if Deutche isn't your forte, click here for an English translation). Note: to peruse through photo galleries, you must view the original (i.e., non-translated) webpage.
Mike
nowakj66, my wish list for the Pilot includes a telescopic steering adjustment as well. I feel that standard VSA is more important, though. Hopefully we'll be getting both, eh?
Mike
There are some new 3.5LV6 engines pumping out impressive numbers:
06 ML350: 268HP@6000 258LB@2400
06 Avalon: 280HP@6200 260LB@4700
Admittedly these are upper echelon cars, but the rumor is 3.5LV6 in Avalon will be put in Highlander soon.
What is the difference between the Ody and the Pilot Nav?
Of course I suppose the more relevant question is how close to invoice I could get on a 2006 versus a 2005. I don't imagine dealers will be willing to negotiate much on an '06 right out of the gate.
FWIW, the new Subaru B9 Tribeca can be had with both NAV and rear entertainment; or just NAV, or just rear entertainment. It's your choice.
Bob
Someone asked how to get a great deal. Another person mentioned negotiating with a dealer outisde of your home town. That is exactly how I did it. I called some dealers in a large metro area a state away (where I was planning to visit the next week anyway) and got them to tenatively committ on a great price (just under $29K) and then I went to my local dealer and told them, "I am traveling North next week and dealer there has a great deal on Pilots. I would really like to keep my buisness local, so I wanted to give you the opportunity to beat the price." I showed them the price, and said, "No suprises or extra fees (except TTL)." To my suprise, they came back with a much better price, with one stipulation: No special orders. I took a look at the inventory (they were only missing one color in the EX-L trim level) and found the trim/color I had been eyeballing for the last two months.
Everything went pretty smooth at that point. The only hiccup was when they tried to slap a $185 application fee on. I reminded them about no extra fees, and they quickly removed it without any fuss.
You are making an assumption that the 2006 model will command a "premium".
Friendly reminder: this is not 2003. It would not be an exaggeration to call this a buyers market for SUVs.
It will get even better in 2006 when the newly redesigned Hyundai Santa Fe hits the market.
If any Honda dealers do try to charge a "premium", I would yawn in their face and go the next dealer.
I am looking in my Honda Pilot rear view mirror and I can see the Hyundai Santa Fe catching up fast.
The all new 2006 Hyundai Santa Fe is looking very good in the Spy shots. The Pilot is going to have some serious competition. Here's why:
-Bigger dimensions: length and width.
-3 rd passenger row introduced.
-Conservative/toned down styling
-Standard safety features including side curtain air bag.
It will be interesting to see how "above invoice" the Pilot will sell for once the Santa Fe is on the road. My bet is that the Pilot will sell for Invoice + $500.
Any takers?
http://www.openroadhonda.net
Also, look at that Honda Truck, there are 4k to 6k in discounts on these units.- fgor a 2006!
I concur!
The 2005 sales figures for the Pilot are not impressive. In fact, if you notice, Honda has the biggest rebate being offered on the 2005 Pilot. Without this rebate dealers will not be able to sell these models.
Don't get me wrong, I like Honda products and have driven them for over ten years. I just don't see how you can restyle something, call it new, and then demand MSRP, for a vehicle that has been out for three years.
I just found out that the 2006 will not have adjustable front headrest. This and the 2005 seating in general bothered me. I hope the salesperson is wrong, but at this point, I have to rely on information he has. If someone has other information about the headrest for 2006 please advise.I think my '04 Accord LX's seating is way more comfortable.
If I go with a 2006, I will just wait until November/December. I may just go with the 2005, because I don't lilke the 2006 front end based on the one spy photo.
It won't command MSRP, thats for sure. Invoice + a few hundred should be the MAXIMUM someone should pay for any Pilot.
This isn't 2003, when waiting lists were long, Pilots were in hot demand and short supply, gas is cheap, and the Highlander didn't have a 3rd row seat. (then again, the Highlander's 3rd row is a joke)
That salesperson didn't know what he was talking about. Take a look at this new spy shot. It appears that at least the entire seatback has been redesigned. It definitely looks better!
Please note, however, that the vehicle will sport rollover-sensing side curtain airbags -- these are very important safety devices that the current model lacks. I still don't have word on whether stability control (VSA) will be standard or not.
The facelift has grown on me a bit, and I now actually think the '06 front-end looks a bit better (though I don't think it holds a candle to the new '07 Santa Fe in terms of styling). I am disappointed in the reports I'm hearing that the rear-end wasn't touched. Other than the front seats and some display revisions, the interior will change little overall. An all-new model should be out in 12-18 months.
Mike
This picture does look better than the other spy photo. However, I can't really tell the difference between the 2005 and the 2006, except for the headlights.
Another concern, is whether the hp figures will drop. Per another website, the Acura MDX will have 12 less horsepower in 2006 than in 2005. I wonder if this will effect the Pilot.
I am beginning to reconsider and just getting a 2005, but the lack of VSA on the EX sucks.
Finally Honda is developing a 4.2L-4.4L V8, which will be equipped in 2012 Pilot and Ridgeline, on sale in 2011.
Honda finally realizes it needs to beef up to compete with big boys.
I hope, if this is true, its an option. I DO NOT want a V8 in this vehicle. We are more than happy with the V6 as a balance between power and economy.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S