Acura TL vs Lexus IS 350
I have been looking for a premium sports sedan and have always liked the TL ever since my cousin bought the 2004 model. However I have recently learned about the new Lexus IS and think it is going to pose a serious threat to the TL. Also I feel it has some the luxury features missing in the TL. Here is a comparison:
1) Displacement - TL=3.2l IS350=3.5l
2) HP - TL=270 IS350=300+
3) Torque - TL=238 IS350=275+
4) Acceleration - TL=6.5secs IS350=5.5-5.9secs
5) Weight - TL=3570 IS350=3525
6) Transmission - TL=5AT IS350=6AT
7) Transmission with sport mode (that is still automatic but upshifting in much higer revs - similar to BMW) - TL-No IS350=Looks like yes
8) Drivetrain - TL=FWD IS350=RWD
9) Plays MP3 - TL=no IS350=Yes
10) Keyless start standard eqpt- TL=No IS350=Yes
11) Rear backup camera with Nav - TL=No IS350=Yes
12) Ventilated Front Seats - TL=No IS350=Yes with heated seats
13) Paddle gear shift on steering wheel (F1 style) - TL=No IS350=Yes
OK before you bite my head off here are some other observations:
1) Features - are items 9-13 listed above that important to decide a car upon - No. But they are nice to have.
2) Price - I like the fact that the TL has everything as standard yet you still have to add options to the Lexus.
3) Size - The TL is a longer car, though it seems that the wheelbase is now going to be almost the same. I am waiting to see how the legroom is going to compare - (I am tall)
4) Drivetrain - If Acura launches an AWD model that will really be something. AWD is being offered by Lexus on the lower powered IS250.
5) Styling - This is very personal but I like both cars a lot.
6) Power - If Acura can't up the power to 300+ to match because of the RL isn't that a problem? The IS350 has more torque than the RL.
Opinions?
- spinaker
1) Displacement - TL=3.2l IS350=3.5l
2) HP - TL=270 IS350=300+
3) Torque - TL=238 IS350=275+
4) Acceleration - TL=6.5secs IS350=5.5-5.9secs
5) Weight - TL=3570 IS350=3525
6) Transmission - TL=5AT IS350=6AT
7) Transmission with sport mode (that is still automatic but upshifting in much higer revs - similar to BMW) - TL-No IS350=Looks like yes
8) Drivetrain - TL=FWD IS350=RWD
9) Plays MP3 - TL=no IS350=Yes
10) Keyless start standard eqpt- TL=No IS350=Yes
11) Rear backup camera with Nav - TL=No IS350=Yes
12) Ventilated Front Seats - TL=No IS350=Yes with heated seats
13) Paddle gear shift on steering wheel (F1 style) - TL=No IS350=Yes
OK before you bite my head off here are some other observations:
1) Features - are items 9-13 listed above that important to decide a car upon - No. But they are nice to have.
2) Price - I like the fact that the TL has everything as standard yet you still have to add options to the Lexus.
3) Size - The TL is a longer car, though it seems that the wheelbase is now going to be almost the same. I am waiting to see how the legroom is going to compare - (I am tall)
4) Drivetrain - If Acura launches an AWD model that will really be something. AWD is being offered by Lexus on the lower powered IS250.
5) Styling - This is very personal but I like both cars a lot.
6) Power - If Acura can't up the power to 300+ to match because of the RL isn't that a problem? The IS350 has more torque than the RL.
Opinions?
- spinaker
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Will the IS coupe be a retractable hardtop similar to the SC?
Acura needs to up its HP and Torque to stay competitive, but are they that concerned with being competitive with Lexus, Infinity, MB, Audi and Cadillac?
FWD must be either trashed in favor of RWD or replaced with SH-AWD
Personally I drive a G35 which is very close to TL in terms of size and price and features. I did consider TL before, but once I test drove them I decide to take G35 because of the RWD. It's rarely to find a car tuned so comfortable on LA road surface but still provide a lot of fun/thrill when you push it to the limit. I'm not saying it matches BMW, but it's a lot closer compared to TL.
Give G35 a try!
i just received an email back from a lexus dealer in SO CAL stating that the IS350 will be bringing in 320 horsepower; it read,"The BMW will hav 65 LESS horse power "....if that is correct, and the estimated price being 5-7 k less as was also stated...im sooooo leaning towards the IS. As much as i have been looking forward to purchasing the 330i, it appears as though the IS ahs so much going for it.
TL advantages:
1) Assuming the IS tops out around $42k, the Acura is $6,500 cheaper with a premium level of equipment. (nav, bluetooth, etc.)
2) The Acura is arguably better looking. This is in the eye of the beholder.
3) The TL probably will be cheaper to insure.
IS advantages:
1) The IS is RWD and won't have the Acura's torque steer issues.
2) The IS has more horsepower and significantly more torque.
3) Lexus is the most reliable car on the market, and has better customer service than Acura.
4) The pictures of the IS interior look great. Acura's interior, while certainly better than Infiniti, is not up to par with Lexus or Audi (or even the new 3-series).
5) The Lexus has several optional features not available on the Acura, such as those you mentioned.
6) Some TL owners have been complaining about reliability issues. Check out Acura message boards and read for yourself. You do not see similar problems reported by owners on the Lexus message boards.
7) If you're trying to impress people, Lexus obviously has more prestige than Acura.
All that said, I think the Lexus is worth the extra $6,500 if you've got it to spend. If nothing else, I would not buy a TL until you've at least driven the new IS. Also, if you aren't looking to keep the car much longer than a couple of years, you have to consider the Germans, especially the BMW and its free maintenance.
Good assessment of the advantages of each, but looking to the germans if you're only going to own the car for a couple of years makes no sense. Toyota (Lexus) is generally known for their reliability, so the chances of actually needing repairs in the first couple of years are slim. To pay a few thousand more for a car (BMW 330i) when all you really get from it is a few free oil changes doesn't make sense. Plus with Lexus, you don't have to deal with iDrive! :P
Anyone know if the IS will come with bluetooth or ability to plug in your ipod/Mp3 player. I have not seen anything to that effect. Little things...but it may come down to some of the little things that would help me decide between these two cars.
Also, I am 6'3. I have sat in the TL in both the front and back seats and was surprised to see how much room there was in the back. It's hard to tell from looking at the pictures if someone my size could fit in both the front and back of the IS. Anyone have any insight into that? Maybe it's just a pipe dream of mine to find a compact sport sedan that can fit someone my size in both front and back at under 40k....besides the G35...but who wants that with those touchy brakes...my wife already complains that I brake too hard, the last thing I need to do is give her another excuse to side-seat drive. :P
Lucky thing is that you will rarely have to sit in both the front and back at the same time!
I find the width is a more important factor, because sometimes I'm "beside myself" :P :P
mtl1978 wrote:
TL advantages:
1) Assuming the IS tops out around $42k, the Acura is $6,500 cheaper with a premium level of equipment. (nav, bluetooth, etc.)
The $6,500 differential indicated assumes a comparison to MSRP. However...the real world pricing is $32k for a 2005 TL with nav. And I highly doubt that the IS 350 will be sold at any meaningful discount.
Therefore...the price spread is $10,000. :surprise: This only furthers support how much bang for the buck is available through the purchase of a TL.
Appears you are calling the dealers and getting whoever answers the phone. I suggest you read through the posts in the site listing prices paid and experiences.
You should be contacting the so called 'internet managers'. You can contact some that I recommended. The DCH Group dealerships in Tustin, Temecula, Mission Viejo. Keys or Glendale in northern LA. As I mentioned....the San Diego dealers are WAY off and want something like $1,500 above the others.
As for your three worries...well...I will let others on this board respond.
What the h*** is this? First time in my life I have heard of *torque-sense* steering.
45K-47K?? Where do you come up with this price from? The GS300 is about that price. I really doubt the IS350 will push up against the GS300 in price.
I've bashed Toyota styling in the past, but I have to admit that the new IS appears to be a looker. I would probably be more interested if the AWD is available on the 350.
So you don't think that the IS350 will not push up against the GS300? Perhaps the fully loaded premium packaged IS350 compared to the stripped down base version of the GS300.
Either way...the point is that the TL is a great value for what is within the package and in comparison to others vehicles.
btw...the 'drive by wire' throttle is something else...got to experience that especially once the car is 'broken-in'.
It's tough to compare the IS and the TL since we don't yet know whether it'd be apples to apples. I saw a review from a link posted somewhere in these forums. The review was very recent, and the author still didn't know what the pricing or actual hp of th 250/350 would be. What kind of reviewer could review a car without knowing its pricepoint and hp #s??? :confuse: Obviously, it must've been based on what Lexus told him - probably more advertising than informing.
Unfortuantely for the TL, I think they've maxed out the hp and torgue they can give to afwd car. Hopefully they'll develop a rwd TL based on the S2000. As it is, the Acura is a well-balanced car, balancing between luxury and sportiness. If they went rwd, they could maintain that balance while blowing the doors off the competition!!!! :P Right now, the Infiniti G can blow the doors off a TL, but I like the TL's balance better.
not the 280 hp sedan. :P
I know there's a lot more too it than hp & torque, but that's all my little mind can grasp!!!
Nah...I don't see a IS350 factory loaded costing $47K. I see in perhaps the low $40K range, about $42K-$43K factory loaded.
"I believe that chinelo meant 'torque sensitive steering'. What that is an Acura feature to make the car more responsive and sporty feeling. When you are powering through curves....less power assist."
Basically, variable power assist. nothing new.
As for torque sensitive steering....not new. However...ever tried a different maker's variable power assist? Spongy. Acura...well done.
Sorry, but a FWD car's steering is rarely better feeling than a RWD cars.
You know these 2 cars that we are trying to compare are 2 very different cars. And as far as sport goes, I would bet that the IS350 will make the TL feel like a Buick(maybe not that extreme, but you get the picture).
WHat prices the dealer charges ultimately depends on supply & demand. It's kinda pointless to discuss that at this point in time.
LOL, not even a BMW makes the TL feel like a buick. The TL handles great! :P
Displacement usually relates to engine size on these boards. ie. 3.5L is the displacement size of the G35's V6 engine.
It is pointless as the Lexus IS 350 specs and pricing have not been released. However...the current IS 300 may clue us in on what to expect.
While the IS 350 has not been released, the current Lexus IS 300 is more a comparable to the Acura TSX as an entry-level luxury vehicle. However the Lexus IS 300 weakness is a boy-racer interior design, lack of roominess especially in the rear seats and an overall lower degree of quality and finish.
As for pricing...strong indications are that the Lexus IS will be significantly higher in price compared to the TL.....maxhonda even indicated:
I see in perhaps the low $40K range, about $42K-$43K factory loaded
Actually no, the current IS300 will not clue us into what the IS350 will offer. The IS350 is a totally different animal. The only real similarities between the outgoing IS300 and the IS350 will be that they are both RWD and both are similar size. Otherwise they are totally different. Some specs we already know or kinda know. For example, we know the IS350 will have at least 310bhp. Some sites are saying 318-319bhp. The IS300 only had 215, and I question even if it had that much.
"lack of roominess especially in the rear seats and an overall lower degree of quality and finish."
I would definately not call the current IS300 lacking in quality or finish. It was a very refined piece drive wise. And it was definately high quality. Material use as in all Lexus vehicles was excellent, and fit & finish are excellent also. Just because it had that boy-racer look doesn't mean it was lacking in quality or fit & finish. I wouldn't exactly say the TSX is higher quality either. I mean it has a dash lifted straight out of the Accord. Not much differentiation for the extra money one spends at the Acura showroom.
"As for pricing...strong indications are that the Lexus IS will be significantly higher in price compared to the TL.....maxhonda even indicated: "
Well as I said before, the Lexus IS350 will definately be more sport than the Acura TL. To the point as I said previously, the IS350 will probably make the TL feel Buick-ish. RWD vs. FWD when it comes to performance there is no contest. And the IS350's direct competitors are more the Audi A4, BMW 3-series, and Infiniti G35.
Whuzzup with camparing a TL with a Buick? :confuse: I have driven BMWs, and there is not that much differernce in handleing compared to the TL. The TL competes very well with all the cars you mentioned. In fact the G35 fish-tails, the TL doen't.
boy-racer
I never understood this label. :P
I said buick-ish.
The TL competes well with the BMW 3-series? In terms of handling, steering feel, I think the difference is vast. FWD has it's limitations. RWD is far superior(especially on a BMW) when it comes to the *sport* factor.
*fish-tailing* is a characteristic of RWD cars. FWD cars can't fishtail.
The TL competes very well with the BMW. In road tests the BMW was just a little quicker in the slalom, and slower in straight ahead 0-60 and quarter mile. :P
As for how you pointed out that the TSX dash is lifted straight out of the Accord. Two items of note.
1) Common knowledge...the TSX is the international version of the Accord brought into the USA.
2) The dash should be familar to maxhonda as I see you are current driving a year 2000 Honda Accord.
The TL is not the Accord you are driving. Enjoy your Accord until your purchase of a Lexus IS350. At the same time...consider the GS 430.
1) the current TSX's dash is lifted out of the current generation Accord(2003 to current). Not the 2000 Honda Accord which I own(there was no TSX then).
2) Yes, the current TL is based on the new generation Accord(again 2003 to current). Did you think I thought the current TL is based on my Accord therefore I'm comparing the TL to the BMW without driving a current TL??? The TL is vastly different from even the current Accord, but since I have driven a current TL, don't compare it to a BMW 3-series. The FWD handling no way compares to the RWD handling capabilities of a BMW 3-series. For the average consumer of these cars they wouldn't notice much difference, but if you are a total sports car freak, the difference is easily discernable between the 2. And it's not all about slalom times and 0-60times. Obvious traits of a BMW 3-series over a TL(again), 1) near 50/50 weight distribution vs. closer to 60/40 on the TL, this clearly improves handling and feel, less understeer with the BMW 2) RWD is clearly superior when it comes to sport.
"Enjoy your Accord until your purchase of a Lexus IS350. At the same time...consider the GS 430."
Enjoy your TL(?).
BTW, how do you come to the conclusion I'm buying a IS350? Something you know that I don't know?
I'm not a street-racer guy. I'm a regular working-guy who's a husband and father, and I just want to enjoy my drive around town and to and from work. Normally, that means speed and handling, which the TL has plenty of. Sometimes (like when I'm with my wife and can't drive fast), that means relaxing and enjoying the interior, which when you take into account the materials, price and features, is no contest - TL by a length!!!!
All you IS/3-Series/G35 guys, have a good time driving 'cause they're all good vehicles, but if enjoying your ride means more than just 0-60 and you're not driving a TL, you're missing something. Something's missing either in your car or from your wallet!!!
In fact...I had a G35 courtesy car when my past Infiniti was in for repairs...and I have to say that my TL is just as fun (and trust me...I really torqued that courtesy car as it was an extended test drive for several days without a sales rep to hold me back).
I just hit my 40th bday and I am not a street-racer but professional executive. My wife and I typically have two performance-luxury cars each (no suv or minivan) (who knows...I might buy a Lexus IS350 or GS to supplement my TL). And right now I still find myself reaching for the TL keys for the sheer balance of luxury and sport. I can bring professional clients, peers, and friends into my car and be able to fit four comfortably (try to sit in the back seat of a G35 coupe and you will see) in the car that is sophisticated...yet still has performance handling which the occupants can appreciate.
I also have the balance with my TL to enjoy solo commutes burning the road with an excellent appointed interior with alumium trims and wood-grain inserts (most of the TL interiors have cool high-tech carbon fibre inserts...but parchment has wood inserts...at no extra costs! ) and sound system...especially on extended drives where others vehicles may not be as comfortable.
My friends have G35s, BMWs, Lexus, Mercedes, etc...and the TL holds one thing in common with others. All great vehicles which are satisfying to drive.
ljwalters1 is correct...look at the total package not in isolated stats. The TL might not be for everyone...but it sure is a well balanced package (as stated in numerous professional and owner reviews)...sold with great amentities for its price...that is a blast to drive.
Suggestion to all...get off the net...and test drive a TL to experience the package...and make your own purchase decisions.
My wife slows me down whenever she rides with me.:)
And thank you to all my newfound fans out there!! You did wonders for my ego!!!! :shades: