What about the future of Ford Inc??

nornenorne Member Posts: 136
edited March 2014 in Ford
much discussion about future of GM but future of Ford? Is Ford Motor any better off than GM?

Despite huge success of mustang Ford still managed to lose 900 millon during april-jun quarter.

Whats in the future plan for Ford?
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Comments

  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,361
    norne: Is Ford Motor any better off than GM?

    From a product side, I think Ford's new vehicles are still better than what has come from GM. We'll see whether GM's new full-size pickups and SUVs and the Fusion/Milan/Zephyr change that opinion.

    Looking at it from a purely business perspective, I'm not sure that Ford is any better run that GM.

    norne: Whats in the future plan for Ford?

    That's a good question. I sometimes wonder if even William Clay Ford, Jr., knows the answer to that one. :surprise:

    I will say that if the Fusion is anything less than a total success, then I think Ford will be in BIG trouble. I mean complete restructuring, loss of Mercury and maybe Lincoln and the sale of some of its foreign acquisitions.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAMember Posts: 9,400
    Let's give this one a little more focus (ouch... pun alert) and keep this one from going all over the map before it gets started.

    Let's talk about Ford's product line a bit, in general mind you. We have spercific topics elsewhere to handled detailed discussion of each make/model. Perhaps start with a simple thumbs up or thumbs down on the different models?? Then we can move on from there.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    I've heard the Fairlane concept is going to replace the current Ford minivans. I liked the look of this concept a lot, but I'm wary about losing the sliding door. Minivans are purchased for their utility.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAMember Posts: 9,400
    http://biz.yahoo.com/usat/050815/13045157.html

    "For the first time in generations, Ford Motor (NYSE: F - News) has resorted to firing employees and immediately escorting them from corporate buildings - shaking up the company and compelling Chief Executive Officer Bill Ford to send a message last week to employees."

    The stock was basically flat on the news, so I'm assuming this was expected or already accounted for in the stock price.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    makes good decisions mixed in with really dumb ones.

    They are leveraging their relationship with Mazda to provide a platform and other component sharing from the really sterling Mazda3 and even the Mazda6 to a more limited extent. This is a good thing.

    They chose NOT to bring over the new C1-based Ford Focus from Europe, even though it is a killer. Why not? They have never offered anything in the way of explanation for this omission, and the current Focus is yesterday's news by every measure. This is a bad thing.

    They also use Volvo's expertise in lots of important ways, using the best parts for domestic-badged vehicles yet keeping Volvo separate enough to avoid the "rebadging" stigma. This is a good thing.

    After developing a really great 7-seat crossover, the Freestyle, and then watching it steal 30% of Explorer's sales, they choose to end the Freestyle's run early, so they can redesign Explorer in the hopes it will return to its former sales glory. I am sure it will not, and 7-seat crossovers like Freestyle are where the market is headed, and I'm not alone in that assessment - most car mag editors seem to agree. The new emphasis on Explorer and even larger truck-based SUVs is a bad thing.

    Perhaps the worst thing of all: they absolutely DO NOT KNOW when to stop throwing away money on Land Rover and Jag, even as they totally ignore that they even HAVE an "upmarket' brand of their own: Lincoln. Oh, the wasted money on these components of PAG.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    There are so many things that can be said about Ford and the way it is being run, but this:

    After developing a really great 7-seat crossover, the Freestyle, and then watching it steal 30% of Explorer's sales, they choose to end the Freestyle's run early,

    I hadn't heard before. When did this happen?

    In brief, I too think it was a mistake not to bring over the new European Focus. It is a killer car much in the same way its platform mate (the Mazda 3) is here for a small car for not a whole lot of money. I'm sure the Ford version would be cheaper still. They're even going to offer a hardtop convertible version next year. Its a cool little car, but I guess that since the Mazda 3 and various Volvos share this platform they decided to sell Americans the tired old Focus a few more years.

    This and the fact that Ford desperately needs a new corporate V6. 201hp just doesn't cut it anymore, CVT or not.

    I think for the most part that they've done the right thing with their PAG brands, but after all this if they don't make money they need to think about selling one or two of them off. I'd keep Volvo and Aston-Martin.

    Jaguar is going to require more money still. I think Land Rover should be ok, or at least headed strongly down the path of being ok. They have a mostly new and/or refreshed product lineup for 2006.

    Volvo is arguably the most valuable from a business standpoint because of their safety know how, inexpensive/adaptable platforms and because they're the only one of the PAG brands that make money. Aston-Martin should be ok too once their new entry-level car hits the market pushing their volume to a Ferrari-like 4K units a year.

    M
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    They chose NOT to bring over the new C1-based Ford Focus from Europe, even though it is a killer. Why not? They have never offered anything in the way of explanation for this omission, and the current Focus is yesterday's news by every measure. This is a bad thing.

    nippon - I agree with you, but I have heard an explanation. Apparently, if they brought the European Focus here, it would be too expensive to sell at the current Focus' price point. Don't ask me if it's an emissions thing, or a exchange rate thing, or what, but that's the explanation I've heard. Hopefully they can overcome the problem and get it over here, but I doubt we'll see it before 2008.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    They have announced that Freestyle will end its life in two short years, although a rebadged Mercury version will remain. Sales have been good, relative to other vehicles of this type. Killing it is a bad idea.

    They have spent a BUNCH of money updating the Explorer for '06, to make it more like the new F-150 inside and out. It will still get sub-20 mpg in these new days of almost $3 gas. Bad thing?

    They have basically given up on the Ranger and thrown it away. I realize the volume sales in pick-ups is the full-size trucks, but Ranger was good for a couple hundred thousand a year just two years ago. That's meaningful sales, seems to me. Now it will run un-updated for more than a decade and then get killed entirely around MY '10.

    As for the little old 3.0 Duratec, they are ALMOST ready with the 3.5 supposedly, so at least they heard you on that count! :-)

    mirth: now that you mention it, I do remember them offering that explanation, although I read it as "the Euro Focus is too nice for you American consumers, who just won't ante up for nice compact cars". Perhaps it is true, but a little insulting nonetheless. People are anteing up for the Mazda3, I believe, which also gets pricey when loaded up. GM and Ford both have this attitude that small cars have to be cheap cheap cheap, or else they're just not worth the effort to bring to market. It is part of the reason their annual sales are so truck-heavy, while the Japanese make tons of profits selling cars.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    They are redesigning the Sport Trac. Perhaps they expect that vehicle to carry the small truck banner for the brand.

    Surprised about the Freestyle. I hadn't heard that, either. The interior materials and engine never impressed me, but I think it's otherwise a reasonably well-sorted vehicle.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    Freestyle is not dead yet, They have just announced a truncated model run for it, that is all. It will be gone for '07.

    The SportTrac is pretty big, and pretty pricey compared to other small/midsize pick-ups. Someone wanting a base model 4x2 truck, perhaps a 4-cyl no less, will be out of luck at Ford unless they take the time to order a fleet-sales, ages-old Ranger. Otherwise they will need well over $20K to buy an ST.

    F-150 is Ford's biggest seller. GM will redesign its full-size trucks for early next year, Toyota might get lucky with the new Tundra and siphon another 50-75K sales per year away from F-150 in Tundra's first full year. F-150 is about to take on some redesigned competition. Even the Ram is getting some updates for '06, right?

    Explorer and Mustang are the next two biggest sellers. Mustang's sales explosion won't last another year (just by the nature of the sport coupe breed), Explorer might get a few percentage points back from the big dip of this year, but it won't return to former sales levels I am sure. The Fusion, which started out looking like a real exciting little car, the return of great cars to the Ford line-up, has ended up being another solid entry not unlike Five Hundred. Solid yes, exciting no. Taurus will end its run early next year, and Fusion/Five HUndred will pick up the fleet sales Taurus drops, but I doubt there will be a net increase of sales among these models.

    There is no real plan for Mercury and Lincoln five years out, beyond rebadging some more Fords.

    At Ford, the business plan seems to be dig in and wait out the storm, hoping that the same ol' same ol' will save the day. The only exception to that is they have FINALLY decided to cancel the Freestar, and to go ahead with that Fairlane concept car. The future is muddy....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,361
    Supposedly, Ford is downsizing its production capacity to reflect a 17 percent market share. Which is realistic, in view of the increased competition today from not only Japan, but Korea and a possibly resurgent GM.

    The only problem is that with the increased competition, Ford will probably have to run harder just to maintain a 17 percent share!

    As for Mercury - I look for it to be gone within five years. It needs more than rebadged Fords to really survive. The brand has fallen off most buyer's radar screens, and rebadged Fords won't be enough to revive awareness in the division.
  • nornenorne Member Posts: 136
    Ford is dropping the freestyle line because according to future ford plans, there will be more crossover wagons in the near future and it would only conflict with the freestyle. I saw the spy photos of new car based lincoln aviator and it looks good. There is suppose to be cheaper ford version called the edge and I wonder how it will be look. Maybe someone has a link to a spyshot?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    why go to the expense of developing a new crossover to replace Freestyle, which is a good model in its own right? They act like the new line-up is coming, and they have no control over it! And besides the Fairlane and a crossover shared with Mazda, what will this new line-up be? It all seems pretty vague for a company that couldn't afford to redo the Ranger, or properly update the Focus.

    I also wonder what will actually happen with the Excursion - first it is on, then it is off. And the Expedition? Spending a lot of money updating these truck-based gas guzzlers would be a mistake IMO. GM may prove me wrong though, with the all-new GMT900 trucks next year.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nornenorne Member Posts: 136
    I think Ford's explanation was the freestyle was not meeting its sales projection but who really knows what the real reason is unless one is high up in corp ladder. Maybe Ford is thinking we did not had to spend whole lot of $$$$ on freestyle because we modified volvo platform and future crossover wagons will be based off already existing mazda and volvo platform. But again, who really knows what is going on behind ford inc.

    It is interesting though the ford is keeping the mercury version of freestyle intact. Didn't ford announce they would kill off the excursion and have a new stretch version of the redesign expedition. I agree with you about high gas prices that could keep the potential big truck and suv buyers away in the future.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,656
    an Excursion created just by stretching out an Expedition wouldn't have a high enough GVWR to exempt it from CAFE requirements? That might be one reason for keeping the Excursion around, as is.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    that even though it would just be a stretched Expedition, it wouldn't be called Expedition, but rather a new name still under consideration (one option for which is, yes you guessed it, Excursion!). And that was the last I heard, quite some time ago, so there has probably been an update since then. Whether it's a brand new model or a stretch of the existing Expedition (which is due for an update, isn't it?), it is probably a waste of money unless gas drops back below $2/gallon (aint going to happen). Otherwise, just let Expedition be the biggest SUV, and don't waste a ton of money updating that model either, as its sales will also be bound to slow.

    norne: yeah, I thought it was interesting too, that they are going to keep the Mercury Freestyle but kill the Ford version. What does that mean, that once again Mercury will go on with rebadged Ford leftovers, while Ford gets new stuff?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nitromaxnitromax Member Posts: 641
    After developing a really great 7-seat crossover, the Freestyle, and then watching it steal 30% of Explorer's sales, they choose to end the Freestyle's run early, so they can redesign Explorer in the hopes it will return to its former sales glory. I am sure it will not, and 7-seat crossovers like Freestyle are where the market is headed, and I'm not alone in that assessment - most car mag editors seem to agree. The new emphasis on Explorer and even larger truck-based SUVs is a bad thing.

    The most recent story I heard behind the reason for stopping Freestyle production was that Ford just wasn't making enough profit on them. After using the Volvo AWD platform and the newly designed CVT which is built in Europe (I believe), the Frestyle just isn't making much profit at the current prices.
    By switching it to the Mercury/Lincoln name, they will be able to bring the price up and make more profits.

    As for those of us that have a Freestyle, I guess that's good and bad news. Bad news is that it's "kind of" going away, but good news is that the Freestyle is a great bargain at the current prices.

    My experience with the Freestyle? I love driving it (this coming from an RSX owner). It handles extremely well, has nice power on the highway, and the interior space utilization is great. The CVT is very smooth and is always in the right gear ratio for any given situation.
    Only drawback?...those few seconds between 0-10 mph when starting off from a stop. (no jack-rabbit starts in this car)
    I doubt a 3.5 engine would help that either because they most likely programmed the CVT to start out slow to prevent any damage to the CVT cones/chain.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAMember Posts: 9,400
    If you'd like to discuss the Freestyle in detail, head on over to the Ford Freestyle discussion.
    Let's try and keep this topic more focused (Ford pun alert!) on the big picture about the future of Ford the company. Thanks!
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,361
    The name I've seen thrown about for the stretched Expedition is "Everest."

    nippononly: What does that mean, that once again Mercury will go on with rebadged Ford leftovers, while Ford gets new stuff?

    At this point, Mercury is lucky that it is getting ANYTHING. On another website, a reputable industry insider claims that Ford has reviewed shutting down Mercury three times in the past several years. Which, realistically, is probably the wisest choice. I'd put more money in Lincoln, and expand its lineup to make up for the loss of Mercury.

    Interestingly, volumes of both Mercury and Lincoln are down by 1/2 since 1999!
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAMember Posts: 9,400
    Since everything old is new again, perhaps we're just moving into a time when Ford, and others, are more or less "rebooting". Maybe the "lost marques" are simply going into hibernation, taking us back to those times when a Ford was a Ford and you could have any color as long as it was black...OK... maybe I'm a little over the top there, but simplification may be a key to survival. Get the core biz back to where it's functioning well, THEN re-expand.

    I bet they avoid the Edsel this time around ;)
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    they're really trying to simplify and "reboot", the very FIRST thing they should do is kill Mercury. The second thing is plan to cancel all Lincolns that are obvious rebadges of Fords within the next two to three years. The third is sell off all PAG brands that have lost money more than one year in a row.

    Then, when all that is done, they should draw a breath and work on a styling direction, something between Chrysler-chic and GM-stodgy-we-think-its-the-90s-again.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    You have to wonder about how the people at Jaguar feel knowing that if Ford decided to sell them off, they'd cease to exist.

    Jaguar is roughly the size of Porsche when it comes to yearly sales volume; well actually Jaguar is a little bigger. I would think they could ask Porsche how they do it.

    Porsche would then tell them how Toyota showed them how to keep the books in order to maintain independence while being such a small carmaker.

    Whatever Ford does they should never get rid of Aston-Martin and Volvo, their two most precious brands, imo.

    I too think Mercury should go, but only after Lincoln is built back up. If they kill Mercury now most Lincoln dealers wouldn't have enough product to sell. When you really look at it, Mercury is probably the most redundant brand in all of cardom. Even GM's gaggle of brands have more distinct identities, even if it is by just few lug nuts.

    Yeah...either get rid of Mercury or bring over all those cool European Fords as Mercurys as many have suggest over the years. Better yet just bring them over as they Fords they are and let Mercury RIP.

    M
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    L-M dealers, why couldn't they just pick up Ford to replace Mercury, much the way GM is aligning Chevy with Cadillac for combo GM dealers? It would make a better business case than having Mercury as the second brand, I think.

    If that is going to be very expensive for dealers to do, perhaps FoMoCo could offer some financial assistance to make the transition, since it is in its long term interests for them to do so.

    Mercury needs to go.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I think this may have been suggested in another thread, but what about making Merc the "retro" brand? Going retro with the T-bird and Mustang seems to have worked (for a while). Perhaps they should leave that sort of thing to Mercury.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAMember Posts: 9,400
    That triggered another strange idea... retro... what if instead of a retro "look", they really went RETRO, at least on the appearance of the exterior and interior. For example, make a Mustang that looks for all intents and purposes like a '66, but uses all the improvements and advances that we can fit inside that "shell". More efficient engine, better suspensions and trannies, better interior materials, audio components, the works.

    A crazy idea, I know ;)

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  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    Nissan actually did that a number of years ago in Japan...producing models that looked exactly like their early cars, but with completely modern underpinnings.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,656
    there was a company that did something like that with 60's GM intermediates. They'd take something like a '66 Tempest or Chevelle convertible that still had a sound body and frame, and put in a generic Chevy 350 crate engine, which put out around 220-250 hp by then. I think it was mated up to the 4-speed automatic truck tranny. Radial tires disc brakes up front, nice sound system, but they tried to keep the interior as stock as possible. I think they'd also go through the suspension and replace all the rubber parts with harder polyurethane parts, which improved handling, but would make it ride firmer. And they'd also put musclecar badges on it, so the Chevelle would become an "SS", the LeMans a "GTO", the Cutlass a "4-4-2", etc.

    So in the end it wasn't a totally-updated car, but it wasn't a restored-to-original car, either. Somewhere in the middle. They were sold as used cars, but had a 1 year warranty on them. I remember a magazine like Automobile or someone like that tested a '67 Cutlass convertible, and it was priced around $25,000. Nowadays, that doesn't seem too unreasonable, but back then it sure seemed like a lot of money. I guess it was, too, considering in '94-96 you could get a loaded Impala SS for around $25-26K.

    They also only did GM cars, because the Ford and Mopar intermediates were unit-bodied, and more expensive and troublesome to restore.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,361
    Ford needs some new ideas, not more retro cars. The Mustang connects with buyers because it has been on the market continuously for 40 years, not solely because of its retro styling. Buyers know what the Mustang nameplate means, and while the styling is retro, it is also attractive.

    The Fusion is a good start for a new corporate "face." It's very distinctive yet attractive. Ford needs to build upon this. And get a new Focus here...yesterday!

    I just saw clear photos of the production-ready Civic sedan and Si coupe. That car is going to spell trouble for both the Cobalt and the Focus, as long as the price isn't too high. Ford can't wait until 2008 for a new Focus.
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    Where did you see these photos? Could you post a link? I've looked everywhere for production photos and haven't found them.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    That's a good point. Retro alone is not enough. The retro styling of the new Mustang is part of it's appeal, but it's also a strong performer, with *good* styling, and the nameplate has heritage.

    It would be difficult for Mercury to find a nameplate with heritage that anyone under age 50 could appreciate. What are they going to revive?

    Still... Mercury needs to stand for something. A unique (and dramatically different) styling theme would be one way to accomplish that. Even if the retro styling cue do not evoke a particular vehicle, it would be a good deal better than the current practice of having the Chrome Fairy attack an unsuspecting Ford.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,361
    I've seen the photos on what is probably the premier Honda enthusiast site. Unfortunately, under Edmunds' policy, I can't post a link to that site.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,361
    varmint: It would be difficult for Mercury to find a nameplate with heritage that anyone under age 50 could appreciate. What are they going to revive?

    There are only three Mercury models that I would consider "memorable" and distinctive - the 1949-51 models (associated with James Dean and the entire custom car movement); the 1967-70 Cougar and the 1957-58 Turnpike Cruiser.

    And that last one is not memorable or distinctive in a good way.

    Ford doesn't have enough money to give Mercury a distinctive style. Plus, any time a Mercury model hits it big, Ford dealers will demand a version. And since they greatly outnumber their Mercury brethern, and are much more important to the company's bottom line, they'll get it.

    Mercury is structured for a new-car market that doesn't exist anymore. It does, however, symbolize a problem faced by both Ford and GM - they keep models and brands around to fulfill dealer franchise agreements and labor agreements, not because customers want them. But they don't have the money to really give those brands a distinctive identity. Plus, there are still too many executives in Detroit who believe that they can produce a brand identity with smoke and mirrors.

    In a perfect world, Ford would stop wasting money on Mercury and give us top-notch Fords and Lincolns.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    "After developing a really great 7-seat crossover, the Freestyle, and then watching it steal 30% of Explorer's sales, they choose to end the Freestyle's run early, so they can redesign Explorer in the hopes it will return to its former sales glory."

    A dumb idea (to end it early), really.

    They should WANT to cannibalize Explorer sales. If they don't do it, then somebody else will!

    On the other hand, the alleged reason is that Freestyle doesn't generate enough margin, and that they are relucant to up the price on a Ford product, so they intend to market it through Mercury, instead.

    That being the case, why did they bring it out as a Ford to start with? Perhaps they got caught with unexpected rapid inflation on some of the parts (CVT?) ?
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    As far as I know Mercury was successful only when selling rebadged Ford. I do not think that it costs much to maintain Mercury - development costs are absorbed by Ford and additional costs are related only to defferent styling.

    I personally would rather not to go to Ford dealership (or Chevrolet or Dodge). I prefer Lincoln-Mercury dealers, so if Mecury is shut down I would rather move to Saturn or some other brand. Yeah and I am not going to buy Camcord either – too mainstream for my taste and not so reliable after all.
  • toomanyfumestoomanyfumes S.E. Wisconsin Member Posts: 1,019
    About the dealers. The Mercury/Lincoln dealer here is outstanding. Thats where I bought my VIllager. The Ford dealers I have not been impressed with at all. Sales and service departments. I'm waiting for the new Fusion/Milan to come out, and I'm hoping the Milan is sporty enough compared with the Fusion.
    2012 Mustang Premium, 2013 Lincoln MKX Elite, 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Maybe the dealership is the way to revive the brand. They might be able to carve a niche by going with the no haggle sales model the way Saturn did. Of course, that was part of the model before Saturn dealers opened, so retrofitting it could be difficult. But major changes to the buying and ownership experience might help. Something like a full 5-year maintenance contract might gain some buyers the way Hyundai won buyers with their warranty. I'm sure there are other facets of the dealership experience which can be tweaked.

    FWIW, I'm of the opinion that Merc should be shuttered. But, like Grbeck wrote, it's not so simple.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Chev is NOT dueling with Cadillac anywhere. Well, maybe out in the boondocks where there are Chev/Pont/Buick/Cad/Olds dealerships.
  • dpatdpat Member Posts: 87
    I've thought for awhile now that the domestic manufacturers have made a huge mistake by not vigorously competing with high quality products in the compact, entry-level market. These cars sell to first time buyers, and brand loyalty is very important. Even if you don't make money on the car, you can draw new customers in the door, and if they get a good product, they will likely buy from you again. Unfortunately, Ford hasn't done this. How many recalls did the Focus have in its first two years? How many did the Toyota Corolla have? Whose buyers are more likely to never to buy from that manufacturer again? A lot of compact buyers are young, and will buy another 5-10 cars in their lifetime. They should be pampered.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    dueling? Perhaps I misunderstood. If I said dueling before, I didn't mean dueling in the sense of fighting.

    But in the sense of pairing up, oh yes, absolutely they are. My local dealer would be example number one - a Chevy Cadillac dealer in the flesh. And according to press releases by GM, this is their grand plan for the future: in instances where dealers are not stand-alone, they want Chevy paired with Cadillac, and the Pontiac-Buick-GMC trio together as well.

    Hey, here's a thought: why not Ford-Lincoln-Mercury?

    Nah, forget that, just a passing bit of idiocy. It should be Ford-Lincoln, and dump Mercury. Plus, imagine how much the Ford dealer experience would improve if they had to serve Lincoln customers as well.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    GM wants to pair hand picked Cadillac dealers with Hummer or stand alone Hummer dealers.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    The stretched Expedition will be called "Everest"
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Stupid name!
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,359
    ... **But in the sense of pairing up, oh yes, absolutely they are. My local dealer would be example number one - a Chevy Cadillac dealer in the flesh. And according to press releases by GM, this is their grand plan for the future** ...

    That might be "their plan" .. but the dealers won't have anything to do with it unless GM pays for every swinging dime of it .... do think dealers are going to drop millions on a whim ...... ?

    Terry.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    I think it's just a general and long term scheme, not a concrete plan to be enacted in the next 12 months or something.

    And here we are talking about GM in the Ford thread. Why doesn't anyone want to talk about Ford?

    I was on the local Ford lot tonight just browsing, and I realized there isn't a single Ford model I would be interested in buying. I am actually more interested in GM myself.

    What's up there??!!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    "Stand alone Hummer dealers"?! Are there actually going to be any around in a few years? ;)
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    ...getting back the Ford issue, how long do people think the new Mustang effect will last for Ford?

    Right now, they're still rare and demand is still outstripping supply. That seems to be creating a certain buzz that I'm willing to bet is having some spill-over to the sales of Ford's other offerings.

    But eventually, the supply will equal the demand, and they'll start to pile up at the dealerships. How long before that happens?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    I think the Mustang buzz could go on for another year. Good press, good looks, low prices for the V-6 combine to keep sales high.

    The car I really want to see is the Fusion. Will it be all that? I am curious. It looks a lot nicer to me than a Malibu from the pictures. And oh, how I wish Ford would completely update the Focus. Ick.

    Between all the sales they are now beginning to lose on the Ranger, and the sales they could potentially have if they had done a major update on the Focus after five years, I figure they are losing 100K customers a year now. And that will continue for several years, as things stand right now.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    I agree , I think The Mustang buzz will go on another year. I don't what they can do to add more buzz after a year. Any ideas? Why Ford has not done anything to the Ranger is beyond me, I am getting tired of looking at it! Didn't they just do an update of sorts of the Focus last year? IMO that has helped a little. But a major redo is far overdo.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    they reshaped the front end plastic a bit, and cancelled the only hi-po version. They mixed in more of the Mazda-sourced engines with the slightly higher output.If that is a model update, then yeah, I guess they did one! "Of sorts" is definitely an appropriate descriptor for that kind of update though! :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,285
    I agree on the Ranger. They must be happy with lower sales. As good as they are, even I don't try to steer anybody into one. Just too boring.
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