Those groups are all the same in spirit...morality legislation supporters, ones that want to make the US the most repressive and regressive first world nation.
Target marketing is effective. Ford is certainly doing nothing wrong by going after a market that traditionally has higher than average education and disposable income, and is often a consumer of trendy products. I am sure Ford has weighed the damage AFA can do vs the damage caused if they submit to the blackmail. And hey, a gay guy I know at work has a new XC90, so there's something to it.
I don't see how they do. Most gay people I know don't drive Fords! Mostly Bimmers and such.
Hey did you not see the movie "Brokeback Mountain". You know its about Gay Cowboys who drive Ford Trucks. So there you go, there is a market for Ford trucks in the Gay community. Besides, what do you think sounds more masculine, Ford POWER STROKE or Dodge RAM? I think POWER STROKE just sounds more gay :P
AFA hopes the homosexual to struggle against his natural adverse propensities, rather than trying to con society into accepting them as a right to indulge in.
No drunk, gambler, serial killer, glutton, or potato couch marches in a parade crying “Free to be me!”
So why give a pass to the non celebate homosexual?
Had to put the Mountaineer in for a transmission repair, which was handled very well, I may add. The loaner they gave me for the 3 day repair period, was an 06 Grand Marquis. I had 3 days to get to know it, and I have to say, I'm more and more disappointed with the cheap materials being used in the cabins of Ford cars lately. Under the hood, I found top flight technology, including a variable speed electric cooling fan, just like Mercedes uses. The car drives as good as ever. But the "leather" used in the seats, can certainly be mistaken for vinyl. While the seat was pretty supportive and nicely big, the dash is uglier than ever, plainer than ever, the radio was bottom flight at best. This is an LS I'm talking about too. There's leather, and there's leather. This was appalling leather, they should be ashamed.
I remember when the Grand Marquis LS was a very nice luxury car, and people use to say, "Why get a Town Car, the Grand Marquis is just as nice". They wouldn't say that anymore. If they do, then the Town Car would be equally pathetic.
I don't know how much money they're saving by doing this, but it would stop me from buying a Ford, if the cabin isn't quality feeling.
Right on that one...my 04 CV LX Sport has the cheapest leather I have ever seen...I am afraid that when I sit it will split...if it was just a little thicker, it could still be just as soft but more resiliant to wear...I have the answer...
File Chapter 11, dump the UAW contract, rehire only those who want to work and run it like the Japanese companies do in the South, and put the savings into nicer interiors...
A friend bought a new Camry, XLS I believe, and sitting in it the interior seemed much better...you'd think we could match that...
Con? Comparing sexuality with substance abuse, murder, and other social ills speaks volumes. Wow, I can't believe I just read that. Well, I guess your mettle is screamed right there. That's enough with you, have a nice life, with any luck your theocratic paradise will not come to fruition. Liberty and justice will fail to exist in your dream world.
Ford has no reason but to taunt the AFA. Let them bring it on. Let's see how bad a psycho fundie fringe group can make America look.
And on the Ford note, my sister just rolled over 40K in her 04 ZX5. She has had nary a problem, the car hasn't been back to the dealer for anything but servicing. It's a shame the early models were so awful...the current ones seem to be amazingly solid. Of course, Ford doesn't seem to be touting the car anymore either.
The only problem a friend has with her Focus is worrying about speeding tickets because it's so much fun to drive. It has wider tires and is sportier than the base. I don't recall the version. She loves it.
My sister's ZX5 is completely loaded, I think it has everything available at the time save for leather that I have seen on some of them. She paid a bit for it because of that (like 18K or something), but she wanted it bad, she liked the looks. I've ridden in it a few times...it doesn't seem remarkably fast, but it handles well. The ride is about as jarring as my C43 too, which may or may not be a nice thing to say. But she's satisfied, and now wants of all things an Escape hybrid for her next car.
Funny thing, a few years before the Focus she had a Contour that disintegrated before her eyes. I think every electrical part failed, as well as the transmission. Nice.
"There's leather, and there's leather. This was appalling leather, they should be ashamed."
Yep, same thing in that was in my wife's '02 Explorer XLT. That stuff was cheap, and needed to be replaced (even after using the leather care products) in only 2 1/2 years. And the rear two seats didn't even get used that much.
Someone should tell Ford- " YOU CAN TELL YOUR COST CUTTING!!!"
YOU MIGHT AS WELL HAND IT OVER TO THE ASIAN AUTO MAKERS!!!
Ford's big problem is that the AFA controversy is about the only thing generating excitment or comment right now...with the exception of the Mustang, the product sure isn't.
Yesterday an older couple drove up in a new, metallic grey Lincoln Zephyr (soon to be MKZ) at the local ice cream store. Sorry, but that car doesn't exactly shout "entry level luxury." The Fusion roots show through all to clearly, except that the Fusion is much more attractive (I love the Fusion front).
If the Zephyr is an indication of what we can expect from Lincoln, I look for the marque to be gone by 2012.
My wife has a 2005 Focus SE four-door. So far it has been a great car (24,000 trouble-free miles), but if we had to replace it tomorrow, it wouldn't be with another Focus (we'd probably go with the Civic) unless Ford either seriously updates the car, or brings over the C1 Focus.
Actually, chuck, I think the leather in this GM was worse than the leather in the Explorers, by a fair bit. It was embarrasing to me. Yet, the car ran great, handled well, I checked under the hood, no evidence whatever of cost cutting there. Just in the cabin where it's obvious. Kinda the opposite of GM, who builds a crappy ugly interior, but also puts a 40 years old V-6 under the hood, and a 4 speed front drive transaxle, and tried to peddle it as ALL NEW (Buick).
I tell ya, we're DONE FOR in the auto business in this country. It's over.
I live in the Virginia suburbs of Washington, DC, and around here, the US manufacturers are pretty much done- GM's market share is less than 15%, Ford's also very low- and every year more and more GM and Ford dealerships seem to combine with others, or just go away. I hardly know anyone who bought a new GM or Ford vehicle (trucks and big SUV's are not that popular around here) recently. When I do see the GM or Ford cars on the road, I look for the little tell-tale bar code label on the back windows which shows them as a rental car. A shame really, but they don't get much consideration.
But then again, city traffic is horrendous in this area, and a Ford Focus doesn't get nearly the mileage of a base Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, or Scion. Or the smooth engine performance of those cars.
I told my son that I am considering Ford Mustang. His reply was - don't buy it, you will look like gay. Seems college students consider Mustang as being a "gay car". I am already not very comfortable with the image Jaguar has. Now I have to think twice about buying Mustang. My wife is also against Mustang. How Ford is going to survive? Or may be to try Aston Martin? James Bond drove it and he is as masculine as it gets.
2005-6 Mustang GT Premium does NOT indicate homosexuality. I've been entering Mustang shows for over a decade & have yet to encounter that problem. What are the college professors teaching students about these days anyway? I have no idea of what "they" drive, but past articles suggest Jaguar S Class and a Bimmer perhaps. Maybe Fintail knows what is being driven these days on Capital Hill, Seattle.
General Motors and Ford Motor Company have begun selling new "flex-fuel" ethanol vehicles that run on 85 percent ethyl alcohol. The new generation of vehicles has led to renewed interest in, and renewed debate over, the asserted benefits of ethanol-blend gasoline.
Ford has had the "flex fuel" cars for some time, haven't they? My mom knows some old granny who has a 94-95 Taurus, and I'm pretty sure I spotted the flex fuel badge on it...this was many years ago too.
Ford's been doing Flex-fuel for some time. Explorers, Rangers & Tauri have been flex fuel available since 00 or earlier. No buzz though. Now GM finally figures out how to do it, and presto - they advertise it! Folks thing GM is cutting edge again! One thing GM does a lot better than Ford, is toot their horn, even when they're lying. At least they do something. Ford, pulls advertising dollars first.
That's so true! Isn't that ironic? IIRC, Taurus has been available with flex-fuel powertrains since the early 90s, right? I think Ford even gets some kind of federal credit for selling X number of flex-fuel vehicles per year.
And E85 still will not take off, because it is too hard to find to fill up. But GM will "toot this horn" because it is late to the hybrid game, not because it sincerely believes the future of green car power lies with ethanol.
Honda is ready (judging by its latest report) to put a fuel cell car in production in 2010, the next-gen to the car they currently have running around L.A. with that family from Redondo Beach. GM has to stall because it is not ready to put fuel cells out there that quickly, so bingo! Huge E85 advertising campaign.
I think Ford shoud put out ads setting the record straight - they have been doing flex-fuel longer than anyone.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yeah I've spotted Flex-fuel Rangers too...these Fords have a little emblem with a picture of what looks like a leaf IIRC, so you can spot them fairly easily. Ford should really seek attention for once.
Whats wrong with Ford? Simple, no passion. They haven't had any since the original Taurus,Thunderbird combo. They are afraid to take risks with technology. They seem to be counting way to many beans. No style, weak engines,weak dynamics. And when they do get it mostly right(Contour), they kill it off. All it needed was a bigger interior and stronger engines. MORE TECH. Getting rid of Jaguar would be a start. Getting Lincoln to take on BMW or AUDI would be another. Give Mazda some money to develop a large car platform and and truck. Overall it needs to improve its weight in every class of vehicle, all need to lose about 300-1000lbs. This will improve performance and drivablilty. More tech in their engines. And last but not least go on a vacation and design some cars. Staying in Michigan aint doing them no good.
"And when they do get it mostly right(Contour), they kill it off. All it needed was a bigger interior and stronger engines."
I had three Contours with the 24V Duratec. Those motors could "rev" all day long. I heard the motor was co-developed with Porsche. I don't know if that is true or not. The Ford European Mondeo on which the Contours were based, were a top-seller in Europe for many years running!
The 83 Thunderbird and 86 Taurus changed the world. Those cars were brought out in the Caldwell/Peterson era....the last great leaders Ford has seen, including Bill Jr. Not only did those cars change the world, they made FMC Billions.....
Ford is given no credit for its success in the 90s. Ford saw the emerging trend in SUVs and trucks as lifestyle vehicles.
The Explorer and the 96 F-150 changed the world.
Look at it this way, why compete with the Japanese in the passenger car business where margins are thin when we can focus on large segments of the market where the Japanese are not even present?
That was the 90s.
Unfortunately, Ford failed to realize that you can't be a one or two product company. Ford doesn't need to build the BEST, the just need to be competitive and distinctive. The Fusion may not be the best mid-sized sedan on the market but for the peeps who already own an F-150 here is a reason NOT to leave Ford too look for that family car.
For me, Ford needs to continue to accelerate their product to market and they need to have the balls to tweak things once the product is out there to keep it competitive.
Ford realized they missed the boat a little with the too conservative Ford Five Hundred. Ford already shook things up by changing the side profile on these cars to make them look much more upscale and at very little cost.
As for the weight all cars are gaining, its largely a function of safety structure requirements.
Ford vehicles too heavy compared to the competition? Look at Edmund' recent weight figures from their comparison of four vehicles in the midsize class:
2006 Ford Fusion SEL V6 3,280.0 2006 Honda Accord EX V6 3,437.0 2006 Hyundai Sonata LX V6 3,458.0 2007 Toyota Camry XLE V6 3,495.0
Spouting off generalizations does not make them true.
Hyundais are heavy, aren't they? They use solid steel everywhere in their bodies - another reason why I agree they're a great car for the money, but they are not a technological marvel. If anything, they're old school, dependable, safe bet transportation.
Pipe dream, IMO, Rocky. Ford can only survive by sourcing their assembly overseas in this competitive market. Japan has already done their damage, Korea will do worse damage it appears, followed by the Chinese, and who knows who else next. I see a pattern going on here. The reason Japan can compete by assembling here, is because they avoid the import tariff, so it's actually better for them to pay our labor market to assemble here. But their cars aren't cheaper - just better on many fronts. (It's taken me a long long time to finally admit that).
I think we're (Ford, GM) done for frankly - there is no way to survive in our current configuration.
They are perhaps done. :sick: I can only pray we get a protectionest in the Whitehouse that will save american manufactoring like GM. I don't agree with John Edwards on everything, but he appears to be my best choice at doing something with the trade treaties.
Well I hate to agree with you, but I will. The new Hyundai Sonata, while perhaps not quite up to th Camry and Accord, is close enough when you take into considerations it's price point.
In addition, I believe the new '07 Camry and the new full size Tundra, will be right on the mark. The only thing that will save the Ford F150, is the limited production capabilities of Toyota's in the state of the art truck manufacturing plant in Texas.
It's not getting any better for the Domestics, that is for sure!!
I would not rely on protectionism for a long term solution. It might extend the death by a decade, as it did with Chrysler, but ultimately, Ford and GM must do what Chrysler did, and join with someone who still has life in them, to survive. That's pretty hard with GM, they're so darn big, and have nothing to offer a company like Toyota. If Renault would buy Ford, the marriage with Nissan might work. Some brands would need to be sold or combined. But GM has nothing to sell, that they haven't sold, except SAAB, and a million unhappy dealers.
The book CAR tells the story of how the 96 Taurus was developed from soup to nuts. It's a fascinating tale, well documented from the inside, of how the goal was to best the Camry - but it became more and more evident as they went along, they simply could not afford at American prices, to build the car to the Camry standards of excellence at the same price point. So, we got the Oval as it was, not as good as the Camry, and never held up as long either.
That's why I'm pessimistic. I believe Ford could make as good a car as Toyota - the yankee ingenuity still lives. It's economics that stops it. Ergo, Bill builds the Fusion in Mexico now, along with the Focus. Is it as good as the Camry? Frankly, I doubt it.
You know, I bleed Ford Blue. But, when I go from car to car at the Auction, and I start up an 05 Hyundai Accent or Elantra, then I start up a Focus - or a Cobalt, the feel, sound and confidence is so different feeling. Let alone a Toyota get into the contest. You pay much much more for the Yota there as you will for the other three. But the Hyundai is at least as good as the Focus, has a better warranty, and frankly, is still cheaper. It's the value. So why buy and try to sell the Focus??? It's not even that cute.
There is a part of me that is highly offended when the Big 2 try and tell us that old technology is new, and also when they engineer defective vehicles and refuse to take responsibility until NHTSA forces them into a recall...I resent unions that protect jobs but do not seem to care about quality, just as long as they have their union dues to put into politics...poorly designed things like the door handles on new Explorers, V6 engines that are touted as "powerful" with 200-200 HP, while V6 engines from Japan get 240-265HP, and get 30 mpg to boot...it just seems like the automakers act like they do us a favor to sell us junk, and they think we are just going to believe their crap...even as their market share shrinks daily, and they can see the Accords, Camrys, Avalons on the road, but they treat us like mentally deficient children...
Having said that, I really want us to make a world class car, and somewhere, deep down, I want to believe we can... if Hyundai can build a new assembly plant for 1-2 billion, why can't we???...why do we have to use worn out tooling that is 20 years old, and then make excuses when the product does not have closer specs for tolerance???...do GM and Ford think that if they tell a lie big enough and long enough that we will just believe it???
Why can't we make a midsize car that runs and lasts like an Avalon???...why can't we make a competitor to the BMW 3 and 5 series for less than they do???...while I do believe in capitalism and profits, why do we have to dqueeze every last penny out of old designs instead of making superior profits with improved designs???...why do we have to be also-rans in the auto markets???
I say this as one who owns a Ram and Crown Vic, so I have put my money where my mouth is...they are good vehicles, but something about foreign quality, fit and finish, just impresses me...altho you could argue that the Dodge may have German influence in it...
Just my random thoughts...on a random Saturday...and, no, this is no April Fool...
Camry was redesigned only after 5 years. And it is not a facelift like it was with last Taurus. It is a newly redesigned platform, more upscale interior, new engine. Can Ford catch up? Can Ford redesign cars in 5 year cycle?
To tell truth American companies try to be bottom feeders. German chose another way – to go upscale and it works better. They also you know have to compete with Asians.
Actually, yes, with CAD, both GM and Ford can bring out a new design inside of 5 years.
In the old days, Ford could get a car out way faster than GM did, and GM used to wonder how the heck they did it. Mustang is a good example. But, there was less in the Fords generally. They were simpler. Used old tried and true engines, transmissions, and other components. Platform sharing was a way of life at Ford. GM even back in the 80's had about 300 different AC oil filters in their line. Ford had 2. The FL-1A, and the smaller one, can't remember the number. GMC trucks, and Chevy Trucks had different bolt patterns on the identical trucks! Then there was the 4 different 350 engines, with the same plans, but Buick put more metal in the blocks than Chevy did, etc. Ford never claimed much in the way of specialty engines, most of them were corporate engines.
Ford was accidentally ahead of their time with these innovations, but didn't know how to leverage it. GM has had to come down by necessity to the level Ford always lived at.
How fast they get the new car out doesn't matter as much today, as how good the car is, and what they can sell it for.
Nope, wasn't that easy..... It was something like FL-28 or something like that..... Wierd numbering, but it was smaller. Same core though, the small one would fit on the big one's stalk if necessary, and vice versa if you had the room for it. It was just a compact.
Focus was built prior to 05 in the Hermisillo plant where the Fusion triplets are now built.
The Focus line is now 100% in Michigan at the Wayne assembly plant.
As for the new Tundra. I don't think those plastic bumpers are going to cut it.
Real truck buyers are going to look at the Toyota the same way the looked at the Titan and not be impressed. Titan hasn't come close to its sales goals.
The F-150 is so good because Ford did not have to worry so much about cost at the price level the F-150 sells at.
I just had a bad experience in a brand spanking new Mustang. One sun visor was mounted wrong and it practically came off in my hand. That kind of cost cutting really isn't present in the F-150. The visors are attached with clips! Very cheap design.
Now that the Hurricane is back on track for production, I am feeling better than ever about F-150 prospects for the Future. The all new Super Duty will be out by 08. Expect the bar to be substantially raised again.
"Real truck buyers are going to look at the Toyota the same way the looked at the Titan and not be impressed. Titan hasn't come close to its sales goals."
It's interesting to note that Toyota has not released horsepower numbers for the new Tundra. I have a feeling they are going to "one up" the competition in this regards.
While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, your "singing the same song" that was sung when the Taurus was king!"
even though Titan hasn't met its sales goals (due in large part to a terrible reliability record in CR), that's like 85,000 annual truck sales that the domestics DIDN'T make. Whittle away, whittle away, that's the way the foreign competition works.
And do you suppose that the new Tundra will do as badly as the Titan in first-year reliability? I give it small odds. If they weren't already on their toes at Toyota (which they were), the Nissan experience will have really put them on alert. They face exactly the same potential pitfalls as Nissan did - building a brand new model in a brand new factory in an area where it was very difficult finding a workforce with the minimum qualifications.
I think they will bring to bear every QC procedure in the book, maybe even add a few, and every QC inspector within a 10,000 mile radius.
And in ten years? I think you will see Ford and GM losing 10-20% of their large pick-up sales annually to Nissan and Toyota. And what will they do? Probably continue to squabble with each other, with new and better pricing wars, cutting further into the profits they are already losing because of reduced sales.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Comments
Target marketing is effective. Ford is certainly doing nothing wrong by going after a market that traditionally has higher than average education and disposable income, and is often a consumer of trendy products. I am sure Ford has weighed the damage AFA can do vs the damage caused if they submit to the blackmail. And hey, a gay guy I know at work has a new XC90, so there's something to it.
Hey did you not see the movie "Brokeback Mountain". You know its about Gay Cowboys who drive Ford Trucks. So there you go, there is a market for Ford trucks in the Gay community. Besides, what do you think sounds more masculine, Ford POWER STROKE or Dodge RAM? I think POWER STROKE just sounds more gay :P
No drunk, gambler, serial killer, glutton, or potato couch marches in a parade crying “Free to be me!”
So why give a pass to the non celebate homosexual?
Ford is to rethink their support of such groups.
I remember when the Grand Marquis LS was a very nice luxury car, and people use to say, "Why get a Town Car, the Grand Marquis is just as nice". They wouldn't say that anymore. If they do, then the Town Car would be equally pathetic.
I don't know how much money they're saving by doing this, but it would stop me from buying a Ford, if the cabin isn't quality feeling.
Let's get back to the future of Ford please.
File Chapter 11, dump the UAW contract, rehire only those who want to work and run it like the Japanese companies do in the South, and put the savings into nicer interiors...
A friend bought a new Camry, XLS I believe, and sitting in it the interior seemed much better...you'd think we could match that...
But what do I know, I am only a consumer...
Ford has no reason but to taunt the AFA. Let them bring it on. Let's see how bad a psycho fundie fringe group can make America look.
And on the Ford note, my sister just rolled over 40K in her 04 ZX5. She has had nary a problem, the car hasn't been back to the dealer for anything but servicing. It's a shame the early models were so awful...the current ones seem to be amazingly solid. Of course, Ford doesn't seem to be touting the car anymore either.
Please lets get back to talking about cars.
AFA succeeds when people talk about them.
Mark.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Good point. I should have seen it that way. I'm guilty of falling for the hype.
Funny thing, a few years before the Focus she had a Contour that disintegrated before her eyes. I think every electrical part failed, as well as the transmission. Nice.
Yep, same thing in that was in my wife's '02 Explorer XLT. That stuff was cheap, and needed to be replaced (even after using the leather care products) in only 2 1/2 years. And the rear two seats didn't even get used that much.
Someone should tell Ford- " YOU CAN TELL YOUR COST CUTTING!!!"
YOU MIGHT AS WELL HAND IT OVER TO THE ASIAN AUTO MAKERS!!!
Yesterday an older couple drove up in a new, metallic grey Lincoln Zephyr (soon to be MKZ) at the local ice cream store. Sorry, but that car doesn't exactly shout "entry level luxury." The Fusion roots show through all to clearly, except that the Fusion is much more attractive (I love the Fusion front).
If the Zephyr is an indication of what we can expect from Lincoln, I look for the marque to be gone by 2012.
My wife has a 2005 Focus SE four-door. So far it has been a great car (24,000 trouble-free miles), but if we had to replace it tomorrow, it wouldn't be with another Focus (we'd probably go with the Civic) unless Ford either seriously updates the car, or brings over the C1 Focus.
What exactly is happening in Dearborn...?
I tell ya, we're DONE FOR in the auto business in this country. It's over.
But then again, city traffic is horrendous in this area, and a Ford Focus doesn't get nearly the mileage of a base Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, or Scion. Or the smooth engine performance of those cars.
Yes please. Then we'd all get a better car!
I've been entering Mustang shows for over a decade & have yet to encounter that problem. What are the college professors teaching students about these days anyway? I have no idea of what "they" drive, but past articles suggest Jaguar S Class and a Bimmer perhaps. Maybe Fintail knows what is being driven these days on Capital Hill, Seattle.
With that in mind...
Is "flex fuel" going to be a significant factor in Ford's future?
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=18785
GM, Ford Introduce New Ethanol-Powered Vehicles
General Motors and Ford Motor Company have begun selling new "flex-fuel" ethanol vehicles that run on 85 percent ethyl alcohol. The new generation of vehicles has led to renewed interest in, and renewed debate over, the asserted benefits of ethanol-blend gasoline.
does a lot better than Ford, is toot their horn, even when they're lying. At least they do something. Ford, pulls advertising dollars first.
Mark.
And E85 still will not take off, because it is too hard to find to fill up. But GM will "toot this horn" because it is late to the hybrid game, not because it sincerely believes the future of green car power lies with ethanol.
Honda is ready (judging by its latest report) to put a fuel cell car in production in 2010, the next-gen to the car they currently have running around L.A. with that family from Redondo Beach. GM has to stall because it is not ready to put fuel cells out there that quickly, so bingo! Huge E85 advertising campaign.
I think Ford shoud put out ads setting the record straight - they have been doing flex-fuel longer than anyone.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I had three Contours with the 24V Duratec. Those motors could "rev" all day long. I heard the motor was co-developed with Porsche. I don't know if that is true or not. The Ford European Mondeo on which the Contours were based, were a top-seller in Europe for many years running!
Ford is given no credit for its success in the 90s. Ford saw the emerging trend in SUVs and trucks as lifestyle vehicles.
The Explorer and the 96 F-150 changed the world.
Look at it this way, why compete with the Japanese in the passenger car business where margins are thin when we can focus on large segments of the market where the Japanese are not even present?
That was the 90s.
Unfortunately, Ford failed to realize that you can't be a one or two product company. Ford doesn't need to build the BEST, the just need to be competitive and distinctive. The Fusion may not be the best mid-sized sedan on the market but for the peeps who already own an F-150 here is a reason NOT to leave Ford too look for that family car.
For me, Ford needs to continue to accelerate their product to market and they need to have the balls to tweak things once the product is out there to keep it competitive.
Ford realized they missed the boat a little with the too conservative Ford Five Hundred. Ford already shook things up by changing the side profile on these cars to make them look much more upscale and at very little cost.
As for the weight all cars are gaining, its largely a function of safety structure requirements.
Mark.
2006 Ford Fusion SEL V6 3,280.0
2006 Honda Accord EX V6 3,437.0
2006 Hyundai Sonata LX V6 3,458.0
2007 Toyota Camry XLE V6 3,495.0
Spouting off generalizations does not make them true.
If Hyundai can come from throw away car to safe and dependable in 15 years. I think there is much hope for Ford Yet.
Mark.
Rocky
I think we're (Ford, GM) done for frankly - there is no way to survive in our current configuration.
Rocky
Well I hate to agree with you, but I will. The new Hyundai Sonata, while perhaps not quite up to th Camry and Accord, is close enough when you take into considerations it's price point.
In addition, I believe the new '07 Camry and the new full size Tundra, will be right on the mark. The only thing that will save the Ford F150, is the limited production capabilities of Toyota's in the state of the art truck manufacturing plant in Texas.
It's not getting any better for the Domestics, that is for sure!!
The book CAR tells the story of how the 96 Taurus was developed from soup to nuts. It's a fascinating tale, well documented from the inside, of how the goal was to best the Camry - but it became more and more evident as they went along, they simply could not afford at American prices, to build the car to the Camry standards of excellence at the same price point. So, we got the Oval as it was, not as good as the Camry, and never held up as long either.
That's why I'm pessimistic. I believe Ford could make as good a car as Toyota - the yankee ingenuity still lives. It's economics that stops it. Ergo, Bill builds the Fusion in Mexico now, along with the Focus. Is it as good as the Camry? Frankly, I doubt it.
You know, I bleed Ford Blue. But, when I go from car to car at the Auction, and I start up an 05 Hyundai Accent or Elantra, then I start up a Focus - or a Cobalt, the feel, sound and confidence is so different feeling. Let alone a Toyota get into the contest. You pay much much more for the Yota there as you will for the other three. But the Hyundai is at least as good as the Focus, has a better warranty, and frankly, is still cheaper. It's the value. So why buy and try to sell the Focus??? It's not even that cute.
Having said that, I really want us to make a world class car, and somewhere, deep down, I want to believe we can... if Hyundai can build a new assembly plant for 1-2 billion, why can't we???...why do we have to use worn out tooling that is 20 years old, and then make excuses when the product does not have closer specs for tolerance???...do GM and Ford think that if they tell a lie big enough and long enough that we will just believe it???
Why can't we make a midsize car that runs and lasts like an Avalon???...why can't we make a competitor to the BMW 3 and 5 series for less than they do???...while I do believe in capitalism and profits, why do we have to dqueeze every last penny out of old designs instead of making superior profits with improved designs???...why do we have to be also-rans in the auto markets???
I say this as one who owns a Ram and Crown Vic, so I have put my money where my mouth is...they are good vehicles, but something about foreign quality, fit and finish, just impresses me...altho you could argue that the Dodge may have German influence in it...
Just my random thoughts...on a random Saturday...and, no, this is no April Fool...
To tell truth American companies try to be bottom feeders. German chose another way – to go upscale and it works better. They also you know have to compete with Asians.
In the old days, Ford could get a car out way faster than GM did, and GM used to wonder how the heck they did it. Mustang is a good example. But, there was less in the Fords generally. They were simpler. Used old tried and true engines, transmissions, and other components. Platform sharing was a way of life at Ford. GM even back in the 80's had about 300 different AC oil filters in their line. Ford had 2. The FL-1A, and the smaller one, can't remember the number. GMC trucks, and Chevy Trucks had different bolt patterns on the identical trucks! Then there was the 4 different 350 engines, with the same plans, but Buick put more metal in the blocks than Chevy did, etc. Ford never claimed much in the way of specialty engines, most of them were corporate engines.
Ford was accidentally ahead of their time with these innovations, but didn't know how to leverage it. GM has had to come down by necessity to the level Ford always lived at.
How fast they get the new car out doesn't matter as much today, as how good the car is, and what they can sell it for.
The Focus line is now 100% in Michigan at the Wayne assembly plant.
As for the new Tundra. I don't think those plastic bumpers are going to cut it.
Real truck buyers are going to look at the Toyota the same way the looked at the Titan and not be impressed. Titan hasn't come close to its sales goals.
The F-150 is so good because Ford did not have to worry so much about cost at the price level the F-150 sells at.
I just had a bad experience in a brand spanking new Mustang. One sun visor was mounted wrong and it practically came off in my hand. That kind of cost cutting really isn't present in the F-150. The visors are attached with clips! Very cheap design.
Now that the Hurricane is back on track for production, I am feeling better than ever about F-150 prospects for the Future. The all new Super Duty will be out by 08. Expect the bar to be substantially raised again.
Mark.
It's interesting to note that Toyota has not released horsepower numbers for the new Tundra. I have a feeling they are going to "one up" the competition in this regards.
While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, your "singing the same song" that was sung when the Taurus was king!"
TIME WILL TELL!!
And do you suppose that the new Tundra will do as badly as the Titan in first-year reliability? I give it small odds. If they weren't already on their toes at Toyota (which they were), the Nissan experience will have really put them on alert. They face exactly the same potential pitfalls as Nissan did - building a brand new model in a brand new factory in an area where it was very difficult finding a workforce with the minimum qualifications.
I think they will bring to bear every QC procedure in the book, maybe even add a few, and every QC inspector within a 10,000 mile radius.
And in ten years? I think you will see Ford and GM losing 10-20% of their large pick-up sales annually to Nissan and Toyota. And what will they do? Probably continue to squabble with each other, with new and better pricing wars, cutting further into the profits they are already losing because of reduced sales.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Mark.