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Toyota expects to sell 200K of the new Tundra in a full year, and of course, the company is underestimating it's potential success. But one Ford insider say the Blue Oval will be ready to work on the F150's 9700 pound towing capacity as soon as Toyota revels it's actual numbers. Toyota will only say for now that the Tundra's capacity is "more than 10,000 pounds".
A personal comment...
I came out of an '02 Explorer and in to an '05 4Runner. While both vehicles have their pros and cons, even my wife commented about the superior build quality and the refinement of the Toyota. That 200K number will eat in to both Ford and GM numbers. Because others will be able to tell what my wife could see as well.
I think it comes down to what your wife noticed....superior build quality and refinement. I'm not saying the Tundra has it but that may be what buyers will want.
Although I kind of doubt REAL truck buyers care more about refinement than utility.
Look for more cool utility features like the Honda has on up and coming trucks. THATs what truck buyers are going to want.
The HP wars and tow rating wars are about to burn themselves out.
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Yea, and most people don't need 300 to 400 horsepower. But look how many cars are at that number.
Nippon, Ford and GM don't HAVE 10 years. If they continue on their present course, within a decade either one or both will be out of business.
They don't even have five years at this point, unless the U.S. experiences an incredible boom in new vehicle sales and the rising tide lifts all boats, even the leaky ships that are GM and Ford.
Given that new vehicle sales have been very good over the past few years - right through the recession - a sudden upsurge in sales is highly unlikely.
I figure that both companies have about 2-3 years to turn this around, at the most. And I'm not sure that they can do it...
Don't know about Ford. However, analyst say GM has three years of cash reserves at present burn rate. Of course, with plant closing and cost cutting, that burn rate is expected to slow.....
Yeah, I know. But I can understand trucks having those numbers. It usually takes high HP to generate high torque (I repeat, usually)and we all know that the main purpose of trucks is for hauling and towing.
But good gawd! >10,000 lbs! That's crazy for most truck owners.
Anyways, I think truck designers have to become more creative and innovative with their designs to succeed.
Enough of this quad cab, extra quad cab, extended quad cab, I can tow an 18 wheeler, yeah well I can tow an F16, oh yeah, well I can tow a *insert masculine icon here*
LOL
I do like how Ford has somewhat veered off of that dead end road recently and have been touting their rigid frame and sound deadening.
Kudos to Ford for paying attention to stuff that matters to the majoriy of truck owners.
90% of F-Series Super Duty owners tow.
2/3s of F-Series Super Duty customers buy the Powerstroke Diesel with the Torqshift Auto tranny adding about $6,500 to the window sticker.
When VW as thinking about building a SUV they did some research to find out what VW owners buy when they leave the brand. The first place choice was a BMW and the second place choice was a Ford Truck.
When it comes to trucks. The bigger IS better. Do you really want to tow your 22ft 7000 lb bay liner with a truck whose max tow capacity is 7800 lbs? Do you want to feel that trailer pushing your back as you go down a hill? Do you want to be struggling to get the boat up the boat ramp?
The Toyota Tundra will make the F-Series better. When Ford launches the 60 mpg truck in Aug 2008, I don't think we will have to worry about the Tundra.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/02/60_mpg_ford_f15.php
(keep scrolling down if you don't see anything)
Mark
When the F-250 was first shown, France immediately surrendered to Ford.
The Ford Truck never sleeps. It waits
Sounds interesting. The only thing is that Ford already has a Hybrid, the Escape and it is sitting on dealer lots.... no one wants it.
And do you really think you are going to be able to tow a 7,000 pound trailer, 5th wheel, boat, etc. in "electric only" mode? Most serious towers will shy away from this setup based on the complexity of the powertrain. They will sell a few to those people who buy trucks for their looks, not their capabilities.
What are you guys talking about ? 60 mpg F-series truck ? :surprise:
Rocky
I still think Ford U.S. should have looked more at the Aussie Falcon range when designing the Fusion (to see how you can take on basic car and come up with a range of attractive vehicles), and I think the Ford Ka street convertible is one sweet little car that would do quite well in the States. :shades:
GM has 10 times the debt they have in cash. That cash will keep them going only as long as the creditors remain comfy. Otherwise, BK is imminent and unavoidable. I think 5 years or less.
Read the article I linked to and at the bottom of that article there is a link to a Det News Article.
Mark.
Everyone wants to bash Ford. Ford uses methods to build the F-150 that are so expensive that no other company would even attempt if the weren't 100% sure that they would get the pay-off in sales.
If you never visited www.thetruthabouttrucks.com you would never understand.
Building a Pick-up is way different than building a car in the shape of a truck.
Mark.
So the other 90%+ of the F-trucks go to light-duty buyers, and of those folks, I bet 80-90% never tow a thing. And they are the ones making up the numbers and keeping the F-150 the most popular vehicle in America.
These days I worry a lot less about Ford than I do about GM. The Delphi thing is heading into dark waters, and if it goes sour and there is a strike, GM is going to burn through its remaining cash in a whole lot less than five years.
If you say nothing else for Bill Jr., you can say that he has provided a steady hand at the helm, something that was absent in the decade before he arrived at his current post.
The new cars have gotten decent write-ups, even though the buyers haven't yet arrived in droves. There is a negative legacy to overcome there, so you have to give that one a few more years, I think. In the meantime, he has kept the Taurus around to protect the image of the Fusion and Five Hundred for a while, and I am reading now that its tenure will be extended to early next year, is that right?
Someone at Ford needs to be making sure that the U.S. does not fall so far behind Europe that things like the C1 Focus happen, which Ford NA didn't sell here because it would be too expensive. Instead the '08 Focus will be like eight years old at that point, and no-one will want it. Which then hurts the next gen when it finally arrives. You have to keep the product hot (or at least warm!) in a market this competitive.
And how could they not bring out a new Ranger a year or two behind the new F-150, using its platform in a shortened form and sharing lots of components between the two for cost savings? That's what everyone else is doing.
In the global economy, Ford and GM need to be doing more stuff like that just to compete with other companies that have already been doing that a while. Ford seems to be about 80% of the way there, GM seems more like 50%, despite Bob Lutz's constant protestations that they are already there.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I was more of a fan of Bill JR when he first took over than I am now. I just feel he's going to try to "green" his company out of the woods, and it's pretty clear, he's more of an environmentalist than a car guy. I'd feel a lot better about him if he knew what he made.
I'd like to personally fire the guy who designed the Five Hundred to look like a Passat.
Yes, that is one of the advantages of the Explorer, the fairly decent third row seat. I had one with the 3rd row seat.
And Toyotas are more expensive, and there are reasons for that.
They sold around 1,000,000 last year. Do the math. 10B profit. It's not going anywhere or anything, but can you imagine where they'd be without it?
Rocky
I've seen that number before. I believe it is based on a sale where there are no incentives involved. That 10K is more like padding, so they don't take a loss when they add 6K in incentives.
Still quite profitable, but not what they used to be.
Rocky
Sorry for the confusion.
Rocky
1) The Fusion is a pretty good effort
2) The Sport Trac is based on the new redesigned Explorer platform
COUNTERPOINT-
1) The Fusion will not outsell the new '07 Camry which substantially raises the bars in it's class.
2) The Explorer isn't selling in the numbers it used to due to gas prices. And the Sport Trac doesn't get any better mpg.
I dunno - it's sounds like business as usual in Detroit. Will the last one out PLEASE turn off the lights!!!!!!!!!!
Fusion totally needs to head more toward the sport end in my mind. It'll never out-Camry the Camry, so Ford should concentrate on good styling and sporting moves: a sports sedan that touches on practicality is better bet for Ford than an attempt to beat Toyota in the appliance-car market.
Good idea! I agree.
1) The Fusion will not outsell the new '07 Camry which substantially raises the bars in it's class.
Neither will the Accord, Sonota, Impala, etc. so I guess every other company should just give up?
2) The Explorer isn't selling in the numbers it used to due to gas prices. And the Sport Trac doesn't get any better mpg.
No SUV is selling in the number it used to. That doesn't mean they're going away, so companies should keep updating them or they'll get left behind. Ford is making a big car and crossover push now too so we'll see how that goes.
It's my understanding Tahoe sales are up over a year ago....
I think the biggest problem with the Explorer is the redesign that is almost indistinguishable from the previous model.
The Tahoe is far different from last year.
Rocky
Date posted: 04-08-2006
DEARBORN, Mich. — Ford is offering no-interest loans on the gas/electric hybrid Escape and hybrid Mercury Mariner SUVs, effective immediately and running through July 5.
At the same time, Toyota has cut production of its Highlander Hybrid SUV by more than a third after 2005 sales of the vehicle fell 20 percent short of target.
Ford is turning to the no-interest loan program after having success with a pilot program that offered $1,000 rebates on the vehicles in California and Washington, D.C., last month. The program yielded double-digit increases for the hybrid models in those test markets. Buyers taking advantage of the nationwide program can choose between zero-percent financing and a $500 down-payment-matching deal.
Ford has also started a hotline for dealers to call for the latest information on federal, state and local tax incentives for hybrid buyers. Ford says those tax breaks range from $1,950 to $6,350.
Ward's AutoInfoBank reports that sales of Honda's Accord Hybrid dropped 69 percent from the previous year.
What this means to you: This is an excellent time to get a good deal on a hybrid, as automakers scramble to make them more appealing.
Date posted: 04-08-2006
DEARBORN — In yet another shake-up at the top of the embattled Ford Motor Company, a six-member operating committee was put into place on Thursday, led by CEO and Ford scion Bill Ford, as the company's president announced plans he would step down this summer.
Jim Padilla, Ford's president and chief operating officer, will retire July 1 and resign from the company's board of directors.
Padilla joins a growing list of senior managers to exit the automaker and has been widely viewed as a lame duck since Mark Fields was named president of the Americas last October and began putting together the company's "Way Forward" restructuring plan. Padilla's departure could clear the way for Fields to eventually assume the COO job. The new six-member committee is made up of the company's executive vice presidents: Lewis Booth, Mark Fields, Don Leclair, Mark Schulz and Anne Stevens.
The Dearborn automaker is in the midst of plant closings, layoffs, buyouts, and benefit cutbacks as it struggles to align the company's cost structure with its shrinking sales volume.
What this means to you: Bill Ford continues to consolidate his power in a massive struggle to save the company that bears his name.
U-Haul has chosen not to rent behind Explorers based on their history of excessive costs in defending lawsuits involving Ford Explorer towing combinations.
They do not exclude renting to Mercury Mountaineer drivers!
Source:Page 120, April 2006, "Trailer Boats" magazine.
Rocky
Rocky
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060407/AUTO01/604070379/- 1148
Rocky
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060408/AUTO01/604080379/- 1148
Rocky
P.S.
Maybe some performance cars will be in order for the future, eh?
I think Ford will get the 500 almost right "The Second Time Around", with an almost competitive 250HP 3.5, and 6-speed Auto.
Will the Fusion get the same engine as the next 500? Will they add a 10-15HP to it for the 500?
Can somebody explain to me again why they named it 500? Does it have any meaning to anyone? Any heritage? I haven't heard anything.
Maybe because it just sounds greater than 300?
DrFill
They caught some lawsuits during the big Explorer rollover debacle. Mind you, these were on pre-02 Explorers, the truck is completely different now anyway. Their lawfirm just told them he advised not renting behing Explorers anymore. Management followed this advice, and has not yet recinded it.
NHTSA completely cleared Ford of any fault in the Rollover scandal. The reason? Only Explorers with Firestone tires rolled, (and only 2 door Explorers 90% of the time too). NHTSA tried to duplicate the rollover tendency, blowing underinflated tires repeatedly - couldn't get the truck to roll anyway. No Explorer rolled on Goodyear or Michelin tires. What else could they conclude.
Car & Driver, no friend to Ford anyway, also tried to roll one by blowing a tire. They couldn't do it either.
So, U-Haul has their heads up their tailpipe, and I rent from Penske - who is fine with Explorers AND Mountaineers, which is what I currently have.
Personally, I don't think U-Haul is half the company Ford or GM are, and wouldn't use them as a reference. :lemon:
My first car was a 1962 Galaxie 500. But, they also made Fairlane 500s. Lots of both from about 1957 to 1974, when the 500 went away.
Now that some egghead has decided that Alliteration, not quality cars sells cars, every Ford model has to start with an F. Five Hundred was brought back.
Personally, though I'm not in the market for one, Fill, I like Five Hundred MUCH more than I like Fusion or Focus. And I think the Alliteration thing is just stupid and limiting. Just in case Bill is watching.
Doesn't the 2006 Accord loook similar to the Accord of 10 years ago, or is my smoking weed just gone bad over time??? :confuse: :confuse: :shades:
I guess it isn't such a stretch. Mazda calls cars "6" and "3", like that means something.
The whole "naming cars nothing, so the manufacturer gets full credit" is getting way out of hand.
If I told you I drive a Exploder, who else but Ford would make an Exploder?
Marsha
An "emergency freshening" and a "oops...I'm sorry" redesign, are two differnt things.
This compounds the Zephyr fiasco, a one year experiment, that burns this year's owners, so an almost competitive car, with modern name and engine, can enter the market.
If you were gonna "spit the bit" this quick, why did you drop this load on us?
Why not wait the extra year, and at least have something you can stand behind?
DrFill