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Comments
What you have read about not making down payments on leases is correct. Consumers who make large capitalized cost reductions on leased vehicle risk losing them if their vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen and never recovered. You definitely would be better off not putting any money down on your lease.
Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
Yes, you included a capital cost reduction of $1,384 in your calculcation, which I did not make. You listed both "fees and charges" at $938, and then a "capital cost reduction" of $1384. The $1384 figure was the total of fees + first month's payment. I paid that separately outside of the lease. So, you double-counted the fees and included both those and the first month's payment as a capital cost reduction. You need to delete $1,384 and recalculate. Best of luck.
Premium, Tech, Nav, Sport -- Fully loaded.
24/mo, 12k/yr
$500/mo (includes tax & doc fees) + $155(DMV)
Total lease payment for 24/mo = $12,155
Car register in NYC - Tax = 8.375%
MSRP - $41925
Good or bad?
Could I have gotten it for a lower price?
But I'm leasing and thought 500/mo all-inclusive sounded like a good deal.
no?
If you had knocked the price down another $800, for example, you would have saved $33.33 per month in principle plus the taxes and interest on that amount.
Dennis
Years and years ago I knew I guy who owned a pharmacy and wrote off his Porsche and other high dollar cars as "delivery vehicles". Sure, every once in a while he DID drop off something using his car but you can be sure it was used 99% for personal stuff. It saved him money until the audit came....
Dennis
Can I please have the MF and Res on a G37-S?
36mo/12k
Premium Package
Rear Spoiler
MSRP of $40,265
Thank you.
Dennis
no money down, no deposit
total cap == $38502 (includes 600 bank fee)
msrp == 39975...invoice....36410
rate == 1.78
residual == 58% at 15k a yr.
in conclusion, it would be == 539/month 36 month term
Please let me know what you think, as this is my first time leasing and I want to know if this is a good deal or not?
no money down, no deposit
total cap == $38502 (includes 600 bank fee)
msrp == 39975...invoice....36410
rate == 1.78
residual == 58% at 15k a yr.
in conclusion, it would be == 539/month 36 month term
Please let me know what you think, as this is my first time leasing and I want to know if this is a good deal or not?
I have been reading this FORUM for about a month now. I decided to join the forum since I'm looking to leae a G35x.
First off, I'll apologize for the lengthy message about to follow.
I'm active Air Force currently stationed in Korea right now. I'm headed to Bolling AFB in Washington D.C at the end of this month. After hours of reading thru this forum for knowledge, since this will be my first lease experience, I decided to send e-mails to the DC/VA/MD area this past Saturday. Since I've always gone in to haggle with the dealership for hours when purchasing a car I thought it would be the same for using the internet. Well boy was I wrong. I recieved e-mails right away from dealerships saying they would accept my asking offer.
I asked for a 08 Plat Graphite G35X w/ Nav & Prem pack. I added cargo and splash guards to the Invoice since everyone said they are on most of the cars already. That gave me an Invoice of $36,297. So my offer stated to each dealer that I wanted the above car for $36,500 (all fees) minus Tax & Tag "out the door". Well I had three dealerships come back saying they could do it, when could I come in to close. I had a 4th dealership that I mistakenly sent an offer to that had the "TECH" Nav, Prem package on it. I was floored to recieve an e-mail back saying they could do it for $36,500 when the Invoice on that is $37,245. Get this, the general manger of the dealership is the one that replied back to my offer unlike the other dealerships where the internet sales mangers replied. Well now I reply back to each of the dealers telling them my situation with the military, like I did in the beginning of this book. Everyone came back saying that was no problem, they would hold the car for me if I commited to making a deal with no deposit to hold it. The one thing they asked was would I fill out a credit app. so they could send me all the numbers to get a solid deal. I personnaly called the general manger of the one dealership (Infinity of Tyson's Corner, VA) that was offering me the "TECH" option as well and asked how he was able to offer me that deal. He told me because he had $500 in dealer cash to apply to it. Also because he felt like I would pass this on to my military family and bring him more business as well as mine. I told him how shocked I was to get a reply from him, he told me he replies back to maybe 3 or 4 internet inquiry's a month when time allows it to stay in touch with where he started in sales. LUCKY ME!!!
So here we are a day later with me typing this post. I'm not scheduled to get to DC until 26 Mar. Do I go ahead and fill out the credit app with Tyson's Corner and see what he offers me for MF (thinking that's where he's going to try and make a profit). My FICO scores are all in mid 700's if what I have read is right I should be Tier 1 at least, I've financed and paid off two cars and have a current loan open for my wife's Honda. Now finnally the last 4 questions:
1. Do I go ahead and make the deal if he offers me the true MF for 36mths/15K of .00160? How could I not are my thoughts.
2. What if he raises the MF? How high should I allow him to go since I'm already well below Invoice. I wouldn't have any heartburn about it if it's not ridiculous.
3. What do I do about the other dealers.? Do I go and tell them what he's offering me? Can they match or beat it? I didn't recieve any hassle from the other 3 dealers but not sure which way to proceed. I didn't ask them about adding the TECH package yet either.
4. Do you have any words of caution? This whole process seems too easy and almost too good to be true pending what my MF is.
No treads to gain insight on this type of situation...LOL
The GM assured me there wouldn't be any Doc,Bank or whatever fees that would raise the NET Cap cost over $36,500 with no money down except for first month's payment, tag and tax for MD. I stressed that to the other dealers as well and they said no problem.
Once again I apologize for the book, I had to make sure I gave you all the facts so I could recieve the best adivce.
PS....I can't image where I would have started with the lease of this car w/o this FORUM... I love it!!
Dennis or Car Man, could you do up the payments for me on this Maryland taxed lease assuming 36mth/15K MF .00160 RD 60%. I want to make sure the lease calc I used is right.
Thanks again to all that contribute to this FORUM!!!!
MSRP $37,235
Cap Cost $34,598
MF 24mth .00142
36mth .00160
Residual 24mth 69%
36mth 70%
Inception Fees (rolled into payment) - $2796 (bank fee $595, NY sales tax 8%, 1st pmt, tire fee and inspection)
24mth lease payment = $521
36mth lease payment = $499
Do these #'s sound accurate? Can I do better or do you think this is the best I can do?
First of all, congrats on finding a dealer who is offering you such a great deal. Here's my suggestion: get the dealer to confirm the money factor now, "on approved credit," before you fill out the credit application. In my experience, dealers will willingly tell you the money factor up front before your credit is checked. Also, make sure that they quote the residual value for you up front. If you don't have that pinned down, they could make up some of the money they are losing on the selling price by using a lower residual value, which causes your payment to increase. What you want is a firm quote that includes MSRP, selling price, money factor, residual value, monthly payment, and an itemized list of ALL the various fees. Once you have a firm quote, go to http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm and plug in all the numbers to double-check the dealer. Assuming the calculations are right, my advice would be to just relax and look forward to your new car, which I guarantee you will love. If I were you, I would just wait until I got back to the U.S., maybe the day before or day you are ready to buy, to fill out the credit application. That way, if you change your mind or something else comes up, your credit report does not show any unnecessary applications. In the unlikely event the dealer tries to pull a fast one on you when you get there on the 26th, you still have three other really good "backup deals." Best of luck.
While you can get pre-approved online at the IFS web page, you don't know what tier they place you in (if there is a question). This gives the dealer the upper hand if they give you a high rate and tell you that is what you qualify for - that could be the truth, or they could be just jacking up the rate on you. Any dealer that normally discloses the "buy rate" for top tier lessees is probably one that is not going to mess with you. If you ask, some dealers are quite open about how much they mark up the rate. If a dealer tells you that you have to "come in to the dealership" to get the rate I would just take them off my list completely and dealer with better dealers.
You have to submit a credit app to get approval and so the dealer can give you a money factor - no way around it. No sense in planning on a lease at one rate, waiting until the last minute to submit an app, then finding out you don't qualify for the rate you planned on. A couple of inquiries on your account are "nothing" and anyone with a good credit rating should have no problems with have a few on there when car shopping. New ACCOUNTS do count against your score not checks not so much. If someone's credit is so marginal they can't stand a couple of inquiries they should forget about leasing a new car and get their credit in order.
Dennis
.
I never said he had to apply now for credit, just that you were perpetuating the myth that too many hits drastically lowers your score. For sure you want to apply before making a trip to the dealer to get it locked in and of course once you decide what you want to get - you think. I never said apply to every car maker and every dealer "just in case" and to do it 3 weeks early. They have to pay to pull your credit, so whenever you let them do it they will use that same report a bit later to OK your deal. So you day do it a week early or a few days or even the day before, but you need to have the dealer pull it and give you the top tier OK before bothering to hit the lot.
We post the lease buy rates here every month, so all a prospective lessee needs to do is simply ask for the rate and confirm they are being offered the buy rate. They can also ask if the rates are marked up they want to - and while they are at it ask what the dealer doc/prep fees are (if any).
Any e-mail or phone quote you should always make sure you are being price the car with destination and any dealer fees included. "Forgetting" the destination and/or the dealer fees is an easy way to get someone on the lot and then drop the fees on top of the deal to make back all the profit you thought the dealer would not make on your deal.
Having a low net cap makes for a nice lease, as long as the dealer is not expecting you to pay $5k at signing or something. So that has to be asked about as well and nailed down so no surprises.
Any dealer that will not disclose the lease rate to you over the phone/e-mail or says you have to come onto the lot to get any information should not be used.
In this case, I would make sure all of this was true and if so then ask about the availability of the car - is it just this single x or any on the lot similarly equipped? It may be time for them to send over an detailed list and put down a deposit. If everything is true, and the buy rate is offered but only on an in stock car, then putting a deposit on it to hold it until month's end may be warranted. If they do not come through as promised they can't keep your deposit and I think in most states any deposit if fully refundable anyway.
Dennis
I also would not put $3k into a lease, you want to pay at most the first payment and perhaps tags/title and maybe the bank fee at signing. Keep your money in the bank and not in the lease.
Dennis
As for the issue of dealers changing the residual value, I was conveying advice from others on this site who said it had been done to them. It has never been done to me. My overall point was that he should find out now what the residual value is, since he did not seem to know it.
I did not mean to cause so much confusion. I was just looking for a little advice. I think you all have valid points. It just depends on the individual's situation and what their plans are. I didn't really disclose any of that so you could only give advice on how you perceived my situation. Which is always going to be viewed differently by each individual.
I don't have any plans for any other major purchases, I don't plan on applying for any other type of credit in the near future. I already have housing set up in Maryland.
I believe I'm going to run the credit app with Tyson's Corner and see what they come back with. If everything matches what they offered and there are no hidden fees then I may go with them. I'll go to the other 3 dealers as well and tell them to counter the dealers offer but w/o a credit app.. and ask them to run all the numbers for Tier 1 Credit. Which ever of the 3 dealers come back with the best deal then I'll run my app with them as well and then go back and forth until one of the two dealers say "uncle"
I appreciate the advice, I'll keep you guys posted should be interesting. This is the first time I've enjoyed shopping for a car
The key when you have VPP is to find a dealer that will honor the VPP price and has little or no dealer fee. By the VPP rules you have pay their normal dealer fee on top of the VPP price, you also have to pay for dealer installed accessories so watch out for dealers that add those to every car.
What you could do is get your best price from ever dealer in a 100-200 radius and see if you can get one under VPP pricing for the car, destination, and dealer fee. If not, then just tell the dealer with the lowest dealer fee that you have a VPP claim code.
The VPP price formula is published online and I posted a message here on the forums on how to plug the values into a spreadsheet and calculate VPP based on invoice. I would make such a sheet, then as you find cars you like take the MSRP and figure the invoice, then just drop the invoice into the sheet and you have the VPP C or D pricing. When you go to take delivery the dealer is supposed to show you the actual invoice which has the VPP price listed on it so you can confirm.
If you can't find a good deal there, the folks that leased me my G37 honor VPP and have $0 doc fee. You would have to fly in and drive it back - or simply have a car hauler bring it to you. Based on what some dealers charge for a "doc" fee, you could probably do either and still save money.
Dennis
Do keep in mind this footnote from the Infiniti web page:
Infiniti Financial Services is a division of Nissan Motor Acceptance Corporation. For leases, Infiniti Financial Services acts as servicer for Nissan-Infiniti LT. For ease of reference, we use the term “loan” on this web site to refer to conventional retail auto financing available from car Retailers. IFS is not a direct lender and does not advance funds to car buyers for the purchase of a vehicle. IFS financing is available only at participating Infiniti Retailers. When you finance a car at an Infiniti Retailer, you will enter into a retail installment contract with the Retailer. If IFS approves your credit application, your Retailer may elect to assign the retail installment contract to IFS.
So I probably would not have every dealership run your credit
Another footnote, and the reason you have to have at least one dealer pull your credit:
Tier is determined by the Auto Finance Bureau Score obtained by NMAC/IFS.
This number may be higher or lower than your FICO/FAKO/Beacon score due to the way they weigh car credit higher than "normal". You and I can't get this auto-enhanced score, so to be sure you have to have someone pull it before you decide to head to the dealership to pick up your new car. Now if you have a score way over 700 and lots of paid off auto loans and leases and no lates then you can be sure you are top tier. Dealers often have some latitude on the score as well, if someone was just under top tier and would not take the deal w/o top tier credit then the dealer should be able to get that done for them.
Dennis
The residuals posted are for 15k per year, to find the 12k per year residual you simply add 1%, for 10k add 1% more (2% total). IFS no longer does 24/20k leases, you have to take 12k per year if you want 24 months.
Dennis
If someone is ready to buy a house, then adding a newly leased high end car to the old credit report will have a lot more negative effect than having a couple of extra credit pulls. A credit pull with no underlying account may drop your score or point or two and new account with a high balance could drop it a lot more. Any person looking at the report would see a couple of inquires from Infiniti dealers and realize they were shopping for a car - and would not think they are buying several at the same time. But anyone trying to keep their score up for a home mortgage or other score critical loan would be better off postponing their car lease until after their other loans are secured.
If you don't know something and have just heard or read it "somewhere" then repeating it as if you know it to be a fact just perpetuates the error, No matter what you thought you saw, the dealer can't change the lease residual - that is set by the lease bank. They are the ones who get the car back at lease and have to dispose of it so the residual very much matters. The dealer could switch the lesee to another lease bank that offers different rates and residuals, but they can't just change the residual from a given lease bank just to make more money.
Dennis
The car is black, 6spd man, sedan, with nav, tech, premium, spoiler, splash guards...etc....MSRP is 39975 and invoice 36410. The total cap cost is 38501.
rate == 1.78 and 58 % residual on 15k miles a yr. All said and done, the payment comes out to 539 a month and he says he cant go any lower because they offer free maintenance for 2 yrs and other bs that I dont need. Is this deal close to what you think the best I will see in the Houston area, and what are my options do you think, keep fighting on the sale price?
Thanks,
Alex
If a dealer prices a car to you at $300 over invoice, for example, then they make that plus all hold back and any other incentives (none known now). If you do a VPP deal they make the same amount PLUS they get paid a 2.5% of invoice (w/o destination) delivery fee from Infiniti. That is nearly $900 on the car you are looking at. While it would be nice to be able to trust the dealer at all times, getting a "better than VPP price" means a lot less profit for the dealer and I would be sure examine all the numbers carefully.
Texas normally taxes on the whole car, right? At what rate for Houston?
Dennis
Capitalized Cost: $37,818.64
Total A.M.O.'s: 0.00
Tax: $87.44
Service Contract: 0.00
Bank Fee: $595.00
Total Capitalized Cost: $38,501.08
Cap Reduction: 0.00
Net Cap: $38,501.08
Residual (58%): 23,040.50
Total Depreciation: $15,460.58
Pro-Rata: 0.00
Documentation Fee: $50.00
License Fee: $125.05
Advance Payments: $539.00
Security Deposit: 0.00
Total Drive-Off: $714.05
Less Net Trade: 0.00
Cash Due on Delivery: $714.05
Rate: 1.78
Term: 36 months
Per Month:
Depreciation: $429.46
Rent: $109.54
Monthly Payment: $539.00
Thanks Dennis, your making this A LOT easier for me to know what to do!
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These are the last numbers that I just got from my dealer in NY for 24 and 36mth lease with 12k/yr. A sign and drive lease (Zero due at signing):
MSRP $37,235
Cap Cost $34,598
MF 24mth .00142
36mth .00160
Residual 24mth 69%
36mth 70%
Inception Fees (rolled into payment) - $2796 (bank fee $595, NY sales tax 8%, 1st pmt, tire fee and inspection)
24mth lease payment = $521
36mth lease payment = $499
The problem is the taxes. As I said, if the STATE is forgiving the taxes then you would want the VPP deal. If it is the DEALER then they are really just rolling it into the lease. It looks like the tax is 6.25% on the agreed value, so on the VPP price that would mean $2,293.67 in taxes would be due - which is $1,173 more than your price shows.
Again, I don't know who is paying the taxes - the dealer, IFS, you, or the state. If it is the state or IFS then the VPP deal would be better. If it is the dealer or you, then this non-VPP deal is best - I think.
Dennis
"Basically anytime you see tax-credits on a lease, it's typically the manufacturer that's paying them (as is the case with the G35 Sedan)."
-Alex
If you had to pay tax and you did it at the VPP price it would cost you more money then the dealer's deal. So that makes it SEEM like a good deal. But if IFS would pay your taxes on a VPP price, then you would save even more money.
Dennis
-Alex
2008 Infiniti G35 Base Sedan
24 Month – Residual 71% of MSRP – .00162 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00178 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 51% of MSRP – .00214 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 40% of MSRP – .00212 Base Rate
2008 Infiniti G35 Journey Sedan
24 Month – Residual 70% of MSRP – .00162 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 60% of MSRP – .00178 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 49% of MSRP – .00214 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 38% of MSRP – .00212 Base Rate
2008 Infiniti G35 Sport Sedan
24 Month – Residual 68% of MSRP – .00162 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 58% of MSRP – .00178 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 48% of MSRP – .00214 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 37% of MSRP – .00212 Base Rate
2008 Infiniti G35 X Sedan
24 Month – Residual 70% of MSRP – .00142 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 60% of MSRP – .00160 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 50% of MSRP – .00208 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 38% of MSRP – .00205 Base Rate
2008 Infiniti G37 Coupe
24 Month – Residual 73% of MSRP – .00195 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 62% of MSRP – .00202 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 51% of MSRP – .00208 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 44% of MSRP – .00214 Base Rate
2008 Infiniti G37 Journey Coupe
24 Month – Residual 71% of MSRP – .00195 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00202 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 50% of MSRP – .00208 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 43% of MSRP – .00214 Base Rate
2008 Infiniti G37 Sport Coupe
24 Month – Residual 75% of MSRP – .00195 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 64% of MSRP – .00202 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 52% of MSRP – .00208 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 45% of MSRP – .00214 Base Rate
These are for 15k mile per year leases, add 1% to the residual shown for 12k mile per year leases and 2% to the residual shown for 10k mile per year leases. IFS no longer allows 10k mile leases on the 24 month term.
These are the "buy rate" money factors for tier 1 and tier 0 lessees from IFS - normally to qualify you will need a 700 or higher on THEIR credit report. The dealer is allowed to mark up these rates for extra profit and some Infiniti dealers do.
With some terms it may be cheaper to do a 3rd party lease, you should always check to see before deciding on an IFS lease.
Dennis
I find it strange that the dealer does not know who is paying the tax - if they don't know who would?
Dennis
After buying the G35 for my wife, I am looking to get an EX35 for ME, to replace my Pilot. Just looked at in detail, and drove it, and it's impressive. I'm sold.
Do you know the lease numbers for March for the EX35? The EX35 forum is dead compared to this one...
Thanks,
Walt
Just looked, and unless I'm misinterpreting it, it looks like Infiniti is providing the following for March on the EX35:
- $2000 Manufacturer to Dealer cash
- Special lease terms in terms of money factors (I don't know what they are)
So we should be able to get the vehicle for up to $2000 below invoice PLUS some good lease terms.
Right...?