Why are so many inferior vehicles considered status symbols?

dhanley

Totally true. If you have to slave for a bmw/lexus, jaisus, don't get one!

That goes double if you only want it for 'status'.

If he likes the altima better than his 328i, i know people who'll swap. Hey, is his a newer model than mine?

dave

brightness04

Very well said regarding the market perception of brands, and how it changes over time. Cadillac was a great brand until some smarty pants decided to expand sales numbers and dress chevy up as Caddies; then the "exclusivity" crowd moved onto the Euro brands. Before then, Caddy really had been the brand of envy that MB was until recently.

andys120

that someone could be exposed to the BMW 3 series and decide he'd rather drive an Altima. That tells me he doesn't know how to DRIVE, as opposed to pointing the thing down the road and keeping the greasy side under him.

Nothing against the Altima which is a perfectly decent car.

fintail

"their failure rate is very high"

Any stats on breakdowns? Or just anecdotal material? FTR, I live in an area with A LOT of these cars and I have yet to see a dead one. I've heard stories of them dying, mainly through airmatic failures, but I haven't seen it firsthand. Maybe it's a local conspiracy.

Poor resale of which models, in which timeframes? And compared to what?

dhanley

I find that hard to believe as well. I'd expect them to go in for "this-n-that" more than usual just because they're so complex, but i have yet to see a stranded s-class.

andys120

that old S Class cars are a routine sight even out here in the boonies.

brightness04

I live in an area with A LOT of these cars and I have yet to see a dead one.

Since you are so fond of hard statistics, how about some hard numbers on what you consider "A LOT"? For what it's worth, the zip code of my neck of woods had a median family income of close to $140k in 1999 (the last US census beureau numbers), nearly 3x that of the US in general. Median house value was over $600k (now have probably doubled since then). I was parked in the commuter rail station for a moment this evening when I stopped by the bank ATM, there were a dozen cars in the parking lot, my car was the only one what was not a Lexus, MB or BMW; among the rest, only one ES and one 3 series, all the rest were LS, S, E, 7 and 5. I see at least one MB or BMW flat-bedded or stopped by the side of the highway waiting for help every other week or so.

Poor resale of which models, in which timeframes? And compared to what?

That's an easy one, check out the resale on most 3-5yr old S, E, C and ML on any used car listings or auctions. Compare to what? Lexus of similar vintage and the glory days of the MB of days bygone.

merc1

How do you know these cars were actually broken down? Couldn't these people have been stopped for other reasons? I don't see how you could know this unless you see flashers (even then it could be a ran out of gas issue) and hoods up with smoke or fluids on the ground.

M

brightness04

It all depends on where you are driving. Most of my driving is on I-90 between downtown Boston and Newton/Wellesley (according to ColdWell Banker studies, one of the only two markets outside California and Hawaii that has median 4br single-family priced over a million dollars; the other being Greenwich, CT), and I-95 up and down a few exits from Newton and Wellesley. S, 7 and LS are common sights. I have seen half a dozen S stranded by the side of the road this past year, one 7 series, and no LS. BTW, I'm only counting cars of recent model years. I-90 and I-95 are busy commute route, and I-90 is a toll-access highway among several non-toll parallel roads, owners of old cars tend to content themselves on non-toll roads. I have already seen one stranded R-class when I came off West Newton / Wellesley exit.

brightness04

How did I know? Hazard lights flashing is a minimum requirement. I'm also using two criteria below:
1. having a tow truck in front of it or being loaded up, lights flashing
2. lights flashing, no driver in sight or driver short distance away making frantic phone calls; I'm talking about highways here.

Somehow I'm skeptical about the theories that S class owners have an unusually high propensity for running out of gas on highways or stopping by the side of highway to make phone calls.

carlisimo

"that someone could be exposed to the BMW 3 series and decide he'd rather drive an Altima."

It's typical of the high school I went to, I'd have to say. I think I had more appreciation of my old Tercel than he and some of the others did of their cars, despite how much they begged their parents for them.

Of course, the guys who take the most flak at high school parking lots (and out) are the guys with hand-me-down Hondas that know what's inside their engine bays and do what they can, with what they have. Even many enthusiasts look down on it.

fintail

Some "hard numbers"? Well, I don't have vehicle registration data, but I see several W220 S class every day. I also see a couple current SLs daily, countless current E class, a few G wagens, etc, AMG cars included. Not to mention the Astons, Ferraris, Bentleys etc that are not rare here. I do have some data (although I lack the desire to dig through old census records), and the average selling price for a house in my zip code over the past 30 days was $864K. Bill Gates's house is a 3.1 mile drive from my place. So yeah, these cars here are like Camcords in most areas. I've pulled up at 4 way stops and had the 3 other cars be MB. They are just cars to most here, and I see a lot of them. And I have yet to see a dead W220 or W211 etc. Maybe Barrier and Phil Smart have a covert fleet of flatbeds on call to quickly sweep away the junkers.

So we will compare to Lexus? Is that it? Do they set the market? I mean, fullsize pickups also have great resale. And I'd love to see old MB resale. I do know you'll be lucky to find a decent 2000 model year CL for less than 50% of original sticker, and that's with all the COMAND and airmatic failures.

omegagen

I own 2 BMW's, '02 530i(wife's car) and a '05 Z-4, and 1 Toyota, a '00 Tundra 4x4. I like the driving feel of BMW, they're just fun to drive. I don't like being isolated from the rode and the sounds of the car. Lexus are great cars for reliabilty, but they are always considered boring. To me boring is BAD.

I also drive these "status symbols" because I CAN. Why do most people pay premium for anything??? Because they can! These cars are only inferior to those that don't own one for whatever reason. Would I own a Lexus? Of course! Right now as long as I can afford a BMW that's what I'll drive.

brightness04

the average selling price for a house in my zip code over the past 30 days was $864K. Bill Gates's house is a 3.1 mile drive from my place.

The average purchase price in my zip code was $1.24 million in the past 30 days (November 2005). Gates' Medina home is in a town with tiny population (3k??). Three miles is a long distance as far as demographics are concerned; you can go from country estates to 10th acre "slums" within 3 miles. Having four MB's meeting each other at an intersection is a common occurence in a much lower-rent part of town where I have apartment units; apparently apartment dwellers around here love their C class and M class, for the past few years anyway, probably due to low lease cost. If there are indeed as many S class running around in your neck of woods, are you serious that you have never seen a single break-down by the side of the road? It's not like they only ship defective ones to New England.

I do know you'll be lucky to find a decent 2000 model year CL for less than 50% of original sticker,

Well, according to Edmunds, the trade-in on a 2000 CL500 is only $29k. While there isn't any 2000 model on my local listings, a 1999 CL500 is only asking $26.9k, a 2002 CL500 with only 24k miles is only asking $49k. That's nothing special for a car as unique as the CL. The far more prevalent S class, S430 of 2001-2003 vintage are practically selling at the same price as LS430 of the same years despite the $10-15k difference in initial price.

brightness04

Not to mention the "status symbols" are pretty cheap to get. Just got an ad email from MBUSA hawking E350 at $529/mo; that's like Lexus IS lease price territory. Some fellow business owners that I know have been offering Z4's to their employees as company cars on favorable lease terms (something like $299/mo? cheaper than some V6 Accords). Considering how happy the employees are, it's not a bad loyalty-retention trick . . . so long as they don't blame the car breakdown for not showing up later ;-)

merc1

1. having a tow truck in front of it or being loaded up, lights flashing

This I'll go with as a "breakdown" of some sort.

2. lights flashing, no driver in sight or driver short distance away making frantic phone calls;

This I won't. You still don't know what the reason was. No driver in sight could easily be any of the scenarios I mentioned before.

Not saying that all of this isn't possible, but there is a lot of assumption with the latter.

M

brightness04

"2. lights flashing, no driver in sight or driver short distance away making frantic phone calls;"

This I won't. You still don't know what the reason was. No driver in sight could easily be any of the scenarios I mentioned before.

What kind of people would voluntarily stop by the side of divided highway, get out of car, and make cell phone calls in this day and age? Why aren't the LS and 7 series owners doing it? Is cell signal inside S class especially bad? We are talking about a 7-to-zero score here against LS despite more LS running around than S class do.

Obviously, in a typical breakdown scenrio, much longer time is spent on the emergency phone call and waiting than the actual process of being loaded onto flatbeds . . . so statisticly, you are far more likely to see the failed car as the owner is trying to get and/or waiting for help than the actual help being rendered.

merc1

Like I said before anything is possible, and I don't doubt what you've seen.

I just don't think all of these scenarios are actually "breakdowns" that leave the car undriveable. Some people might pull over to call about any kind of warning light, doesn't mean they're always "stuck".

BTW, I've seen every brand of car by the side of the road before, even Lexuses. All irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, IMO. Though you're right it is rare for a Lexus, but it has happened.

M

brightness04

I suppose I should be contented by the fact that you are not demanding proof by error code ;-) Seriously, do you actually believe S owners are less competent vehicle operators than 7 owners and LS owners by a wide margin? Stopping by the side of the highway is not exactly the smartest move, especially in most of those cases, they are not even limited access highways with miles to go before exits but local divided highways with side roads a couple hundred yards both before and after the spots where they stopped. What kind of dummy would stop a car in those places when stopping on a side road a hundred yards further down (or back) would have been much safer.

Please also note, we are not talking about old cars or even just "brands" here . . . we are talking about current model (ie. nearly brand new) S, 7 and LS. 7:1:0 is statisticly significant result because the sample size is not the particular 8 but thousands of vehicle-miless that did not involve break down. If you want to talk about statistic sampels of the brands outside the near-new S, 7 and LS confines, you probably do not want to go there if you are a euro-fan. I see a broken-down MB or BMW every week or two around here; I doubt anyone can say the same about Lexus unless he works at a Lexus repair shop.

merc1

I suppose I should be contented by the fact that you are not demanding proof by error code

That was my next reply! :P Kidding.

Well about what people do, I've seen all types drivers of expensive cars to do ridiculous things.

Well of course you know what I think of stats and the like. I think everyone knows that Lexus is more reliable and what not so its really a tired issue at this point, at least with me.

M

rroyce10

.. **A Harley is neither up to date, well-made, or competent, so that's a product that is really ALL image ...**



There's probably 500,000 riders that would disagree with you from Sturgis to Daytona Beach ... we need to get you out more.



Terry.

snakeweasel

That's just sad that someone could be exposed to the BMW 3 series and decide he'd rather drive an Altima.

Well thats an easy choice for me, I can actually drive an Altima. Unless they made them larger over the past few years I cannot comfortably fit in a 3 series.

bottgers

I think the statement was a relative one. Compared to Japanese bikes, Harleys are not up to date, well made, or competent regardless of what 500,000 Harley owners say.

lemmer

Popularity doesn't prove quality.

People eat pickled pigs feet. That doesn't mean it is high quality food.

larsb

Popularity over a LONG PERIOD usually *DOES* equal quality. I mean, if something is poorly made, over time it will become apparent to the people who are making it popular and thus the sales will decline.

Exceptions are the VW Bug (always popular but never well made) and I'm sure others will be pointed out by the knowledgable persons on this Forum.

dhanley

" LOT"? For what it's worth, the zip code of my neck of woods had a median family income of close to $140k in 1999 (the last US census beureau numbers), nearly 3x that of the US in general. Median house value was over $600k (now have probably doubled since then). "

FWIW, i live near an area that's "considerably more upscale" than that, and i have yet to see a s-class flatbedded.

I think you're letting your opinion of cars you can't afford drive your arguement.

lemko

...is Rolls-Royce. I've heard that 1980s Rolls-Royces were among the most unreliable vehicles ever. Exotics in general aren't noted for their reliability.

bobw3

If I could find one the met my needs, I would.

john_324

I can't help but wonder if the Harley thing *is* mostly about image for most buyers.

I'm not saying that's in any way bad. One of the reasons I chose to buy a Mustang is the Steve McQueen association.

But it fascinates me how much Harley paraphenielia is available these days...that leads me to believe that Harley is selling mostly an image, with the motorcycles being necessary to do so.

No other motorcyle firms have been able to "brand" themselves as well as H-D has. It's been wonderful for a company who's flame came very close to going out.

But the downside of creating such a strong brand identity is that it makes the Harley hobby increasingly about the image. I have to imagine that among the old-school faithful, it's a cause for some consternation and at best ambivalence. :confuse:

inajoong

I think it's like dating a hot babe. You are fully aware of the maintainence, yet you have to go that route. As far as them being inferior, I think that's your subjective opinion. I'll goto the dealer a couple times more a year and have the prestige of driving a MB.

fintail

"Gates' Medina home is in a town with tiny population "

Medina is hardly a legitimate town. It's really just a neighborhood, a suburb of a suburb. 2 minutes from the high rises of downtown Bellevue and 10 minutes from Seattle. It always helps to have firsthand knowledge when talking about places, google can be misleading. Cookie cutter MBAs only gain one so much. Those demographics you speak of also don't apply universally...again, that price is for my zip code, not Medina...it shoots up as you head that way. However, this is all moot. The FACT is, these cars are very common here. I dare say I take notice of MB and simply know more about MB more than 99% of the population - including yourself, so I think my observations are valid. And I am serious, I've never seen a dead S alongside the road. Maybe the towing companies here are more efficient, or maybe the climate here helps the cars.

Trade in value is meaningless - this is about resale, and a 99 CL is also a nice deflection to those who don't know the cars, as it is the last of the OLD (1992) W140 cars and of course will depreciate steeply. Hell, I saw a semi-decent 99 CL600(!) with like 50K on it for $29K. That's nearly $100K less than new. But it's a no-volume car and more of a somewhat oddly styled freak than anything, maintenance will be painful even if the car itself is solid enough. No demand and high running costs = no retained value. I never see decent 202 CLs for under 40K, even 2000 models, but out here they aren't east coast rustbuckets. Maybe there's the difference too.

Here's an idea...you make this smarmy masked bragging claim about supposedly owning apartments, so you must be able to afford a camera phone or digital camera. How about you carry it with you and share with us some photos of dead-in-the-water S class and 7ers. Put your money where your mouth is.

brightness04

FWIW, i live near an area that's "considerably more upscale" than that, and i have yet to see a s-class flatbedded.

Please note the $140k/$600+k numbers were from 1999 US Census; the current median house sale is well over $1mil. Even assume you are from the most expensive area around Chicago, near north side, zipcode 60611, the same 1999 census actually shows median family income of only $122k, per capita only $83k. Obviously, significant income progress has taken place since then, at both locations, as well as other better off parts of the country..

I think you're letting your opinion of cars you can't afford drive your arguement

Making monthly lease payment on an S class should not be too hard for me. What I can not afford is getting stranded getting to my work. That, and my preference for buying cars outright with cash instead of leasing; it makes no sense whatsoever to buy any of the MB cars because their real value is reflected in the heavily subsidized leases.

rorr

" I think you're letting your opinion of cars you can't afford drive your arguement."

And I think you're letting your love of a marque cloud your perception. Just my opinion.

Personally, I find this continual attempts to 'one-up' the other guy's neighborhood with discussions of median home pricing and income from census data slightly nauseating. Or maybe the word I'm looking for is 'smarmy'.

fintail

Why do you have my name over a quote I didn't make? Reading for comprehension...

Who was one-upping who? Just giving demographic background for areas where 75K+ cars are common.

rorr

Youch....my apologies on the incorrect quote reference - that should have gone over to dhanley.

I'm still unclear on what difference it makes about the demographic background for areas where these cars are common. Would it perhaps make more sense to simply post industry data regarding the reliablity of various luxury makes?

brightness04

I have no idea why you brought up Gates' house when you are obviously not even in Medina. As we know, there are "working class neighborhoods" within 3 miles of pratically every upscale town/neighborhood; in fact 3 miles from where I am, you can reach two towns over to an area that cost less than 1/3 the price of housing here. As to whether Medina is a legtimate town, you can spin all you want, the reality is that it has its own city council!

You were the one who brought up 2000 CL, not me. There being no 2000 CL listed for sale in my neck of woods, I can only find a 1999 CL500, knowing its being older generation, I also presented a 2002 CL500 at $49k with only 24k miles. It's quite obvious that you brought up the CL as a way of bragging MB holding up value well . . . somehow now you are claiming CL has low retained value because of low volume?? well, guess what, the high volume S class do even worse, far worse.

I dare say I take notice of MB and simply know more about MB more than 99% of the population - including yourself, so I think my observations are valid.

What you think does not fact make. I'm probably more knowledgeable about MB than 99.5% of the population. Am I more knowledgeable than you? I have no idea, nor do I have any intention of making a fool of myself staking out nonsensical claims.

I have no camera on my phone; I don't change them often, bought the current one in 2002 only because the old one from 1996 was run over by my car in the drive way (the old tank of a Qualcomm phone actually worked even after being run over! but battery door was cracked and let in moisture so I had to replace it) Probably won't get a camera-phone in my next replacement either because some of the places that I go do not allow camera at all, including cellphone cameras. All my digital cameras are DSLR's, so they don't exactly fit in the glovebox. Frankly, it borders on the silly to take pictures while driving along the highway, but I will give it a try . . . saying that they don't exist because a particular passing motorist never took a picture of it is like saying meterites don't exist because you have never been struck by one personally.

BTW, no bragging was intended regardign apartments . . . please notice I used the phrase "much lower-rent area" in that context. There are gaggles of old Euro beaters in the inner city (and brand new C and M class on cheap lease in recent years) where a reliable car is quite unnecessary while a status symbol is helpful; I had one when I was in college.

andre1969

Well thats an easy choice for me, I can actually drive an Altima. Unless they made them larger over the past few years I cannot comfortably fit in a 3 series.

I'll second that one. Although in all fairness, I did ride in a newer 3-series a couple years ago (newer but pre-Bangled), and I could fit fine in the front seat. Back seat was little more than a leather-clad package shelf. Trunk's pretty tiny, too. And it rode pretty well, too. Now I've been in some of the older 3-series, and sadly, the image of a leather-clad Chevette is the first thing that pops into my mind. Well, okay, a leather-clad Chevette that can handle! :P But still, the door panel was right up against my shoulder, my [non-permissible content removed] cheeks were practically spilling over the sides of the little seat (and I'm anything BUT fat!), and it was just a cramped, wretched little thing. I'm 6'3" though, so what's cramped and wretched to me might fit other people fine. YMMV.

And there's more to the whole car experience than just driving it. Now if the BMW cost the same as the Altima to buy, insure, and maintain, and was as roomy/comfortable inside, then yeah, the BMW would be a no-brainer. Unfortunately, the world is full of compromises though, and you have to make the compromises that suit you the best.

lemmer

There is no sense arguing this. It is a silly contention that the streets of upscale neighborhoods are littered with broken down Mercedes or any other late model car. Probably the least reliable late model vehicle I can think of is Range Rover. We have tons of them here in my neighborhood, and I have never seen one stranded.

It is just as silly to imply that Mercedes as a whole suffers from poor resale. The facts just don't support it. I could pull up ALG resale values etc. all day, but it won't help convince someone that already has made up their mind that Mercedes makes inferior vehicles.

lemmer

What do you fit in the back of comfortably?

I am an inch shorter than you, and almost nothing short of a minivan is comfortable for me. In fact, I gave up trying to find anything. As long as my wife can sit comfortably behind me (and she could in our 2000 BMW 323i), I am fine with the car.

andre1969

truthfully, there's not much that I can fit comfortably in the back of. With something like a 3-series though, I'd have to put the front seat so far back that it doesn't look like anybody could fit back there!

Oddly though, I can often fit more comfortably in the back of cars that have a lower seat. One side effect of many modern cars with the "theater style" seating in back is that you actually need more room for taller passengers, because their legs are now sitting more straight-out than inclined.

I really don't even like sitting in the back seat of my Intrepid. It's comfortable and there's enough legroom, but the way the sides curve in it just feels like the ceiling is too close to my head. Could be worse, though...I actually hit my head on the Taurus because of the curvature! And in my old man's Regal, it has the double bonus of no legroom, plus being able to hit my head on the rear window!

I can get comfy in the back seat of an Accord or Altima, so it's not like the auto makers really have to make gargantuan cars for me to fit in, just efficient ones.

brightness04

No one is contending that the streets of upscale neighborhoods are litered with broken down Mercedes. I drove about 12k miles in the past 12 months, and saw half a dozen stranded S class. Half a dozen over 12k miles is not litering ;-) However, it is statisticly significant MTBF data point when the competitions are 1 and 0 during the same 12k miles by the observer, and there are more LS than S on the road to begin with.

ALG data are projections not facts. You can find out the facts on the ground by looking up at auctions closing prices and lowest asking prices on for-sale listings. S and 7 are both doing poorly, same for most E, C and M models. That's what? 80-90% of MB's sold in this country?

larsb

quote andre-"truthfully, there's not much that I can fit comfortably in the back of."-end quote

Have you looked at the Maybach? If you cant fit in this backseat, you are in trouble:

rroyce10

... **... that leads me to believe that Harley is selling mostly an image, with the motorcycles being necessary to do so...**



Good point ..

.... and you're right, there is alot of "selling the image" that has gone with HD - and God bless em', they're making tons of $$ because of it .... that said, their build quality is superb and they have some of the highest customer satisfaction percentages in the world and the European market for HD is "exploding" ....

I'm an old schooler, I've been riding for 30 years ...

I'm remember when Sportsters would turn and burn in 3,000 miles or less under AMF, I remember when the lights and brakes would disconnect on the Electra-Glide's after 2,000 miles in the 70's and the Low Riders would burn the tranny's in the 80's ... that was then, this is now ....... now, it's a turn key engine that will run til' 50/70k++ without a hick-up, check a Harley service department on a Saturday .. you could fire a shotgun thru them and not hit a customer ...

See, all these discussions seem to end up the same .. if someone doesn't like a certain product, then they have to be evil or bad, just like golf .l.o.l.. .. it all depends on what a person likes .. and dislikes are usually based on very little experience, or what somebody read "somewhere" ..... as in golf, you can read what a reviewer or an editor has to "say" about a certain club, but he may have a 3 handicap and you have a 15 - so his opinion becomes meaningless .. plus, until *you* touch, feel and play that club, then it's just another opinion blowin' in the wind ...

Cars, boats, golf clubs it's all the same .. it's whatever works for you .. do you think folks buy those silly Maybachs because they're nice cars..? .. Nope, they just say "I must be a somebody" ..l.o.l....



Terry

lemmer

Twice last month, I saw Lexus LX470s broken down in my neighborhood. In the same time, I saw no Mercedes. Of course, both 470s just had flats, but I would just leave that out if I was trying to "prove" that Lexus reliability is faltering.

ALG data are projections not facts. You can find out the facts on the ground by looking up at auctions closing prices and lowest asking prices on for-sale listings. S and 7 are both doing poorly, same for most E, C and M models. That's what? 80-90% of MB's sold in this country?

Like I said, in my opinion you are completely wrong, but there is no convincing someone with their mind made up - whether that be me or you.

Maybe Terry will chime in and set us straight. I suspect he will say that some models (like the CL) don't do all that well while other models are among the best.

fintail

"I have no idea why you brought up Gates' house when you are obviously not even in Medina."

Because I border it, and because of my proximity I see these cars as often as Camcords. Do you understand? That was the whole issue here, explaining my surroundings and how they influence the high amount of highline vehicles. The "working class" (are you not a worker, Mr. Cookie Cutter MBA?) neighborhoods here are where a 40 year old tract house goes for 450K instead of 850K. You can go 10 miles north or south and find something different.

"you can spin all you want"

You really lack a right to judge until you can speak firsthand. Visit the place and get back to me. I'd be a fool if I judged your area, and you're being a fool judging mine.

" Am I more knowledgeable than you? "

Absolutely not. I mean, you compare a 140 with a 220...that's all I need to know.

"somehow now you are claiming CL has low retained value because of low volume??"

I'm claiming a 1999 CL600 has low retained value because of massive maintenance, being the last of a platform, and being just a little odd. Reading for comprehension.

"I also presented a 2002 CL500 at $49k with only 24k miles. "

Doesn't mean it's actually decent. It's amazing how a car can be abused even at a low mileage.

"but I will give it a try ."

You really need to. The burden of proof is on you...NOBODY else here is supporting your claims of seeing a S deserted on the road or on a flatbed every other week. If it is such a common happening, you should easily be able to gather some photographs.

"I had one when I was in college."

Reminds me of someone.

brightness04

You are assuming way too much. First of all, I'm not an MBA, much less a "Cookie Cutter" one. I run my own business, a very unique one at it.

Secondly, most high-end exclusive neighborhoods are very similarly surrounded by relatively lower income towns . . . if nothing else, someone has to be the sales clerks, the plubmers and what-not in the expensive towns. The drop off in housing price value is dramaticly fast as you move away from the very center of prosperity, so do vehicle fleet mix. New England is known for towns built immediately next to each other, far more so than the rest of the country. There is often no way you could tell one town ends and another starts except for border signs put up by towns (often time that is missing too), yet, housing value and vehicle fleet mix change dramaticly across short distance. Yes, you can still see S class quite often in your own area, but not nearly as often as if you actually lived in Medina. You are in fact on the wrong side of Medina: the concentration of expensive traffic is going from Medina west to Seattle along 520 or skirting down past Bellvue then I-90, whereas your location is to the east of Medina.

you compare a 140 with a 220...that's all I need to know.

Then you are jumping your gun way too quick, just like your silly assumption about MBA. If you buy a CL today, don't you think by the time it is 3-5yrs old, it will be the "previous generation"? I knew 1999 was the previous generation, that's why I also presented a 2002 just to bracket 2000 model year, of which there is no car for sale in my local listing; the first model year Euro typically don't retain value well anyway.

"I also presented a 2002 CL500 at $49k with only 24k miles. "

Doesn't mean it's actually decent. It's amazing how a car can be abused even at a low mileage

That's just a lame excuse. We are talking about $50k used cars here; if there's big bucks to be made selling for much more, someone would have long bought and professionally detailed it for resale. How about let's take a look at the rest of the listings in my area:
2001 CL500 68kmiles $45k
2002 CL500 22kmiles $53k (differen seller from the $49k one)
2001 CL600 32kmiles $55k
2001 CL55AMG 21kmiles $55k
2002 CL500 37kmiles $55k
2002 CL500 16kmiles $55k
2002 CL500 28kmiles $56k
2001 CL600 25kmiles $56k

These are all asking prices before any haggling. Almost all vehicles with very low mileage (excepting the first one at $45k, as you can see when I quoted you $49k for 2002, I already took care skipping over vehicles that have relatively high mileage and potentially wear). These are facts not jiving with your supposed knowledge that CL holds up value really well . . . Perhaps you have additional knowledge that none of these specific CL owners know how to maintain their cars ;-)

NOBODY else here is supporting your claims of seeing a S deserted on the road or on a flatbed every other week

I never made such claim. There are more than 12 weeks in a year. I saw half a dozen stranded S in the past year, or 52 weeks. That's roughly one every other month, on average, big difference from one every other week. One every week or every other week on flatbeds that I see are MB and BMW of any/all models, not S class specificly; there are far more other models than S class, obviously. As you would say, "Reading for comprehension" please

carlisimo

This is no better than a Mustang vs. Civic thread.

Hm, I could write social commentary on that idea...

imidazol97

I heard a radio talk host mention today that he drives a car that only sells 400 per year. Does anyone have an idea what car Rush drives?

No rants please. I just happened to have turned on the radio while working on a project and he was on the station this afternoon. This is not a political post.

brightness04

Maybach or the new RR Phantom? IIRC, each of them has a goal of 1000/yr, but missing sales target badly.

shipo

"This is no better than a Mustang vs. Civic thread."

That seems to be a common result when the subject matter is lit by only 4 lumens of brightness.

Best Regards,
Shipo