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Why are so many inferior vehicles considered status symbols?
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:surprise:
No you did not ? :P
What are you trying to say ? That a Kia is better than a Impala ? Or a Kia is better than Lucerne ? OK OK a Kia might be just as good as a Chevy Tracker :P
People saying Hyundai's Azera's or Sonata's are better than Toyota Avalons or Lexus ES's are smoking something. And to say they are better than Honda or Acura's, they are snorting something. :surprise:
Rocky
may I use that.......?
Terry. :P
Lottery winner? Cocaine importer? Beverly Hills plastic surgeon?
I suspect these things are relegated to dawdling down the boulevard at 25mph. That's the high-end car poser trait that's the most annoying. The aging boomers here in their Porsche Cabrios and Bentleys etc here are very guilty in that regard.
nope...one friend who went to grad school with me, married a physician..who comes from a prominent family. Her own family owns many plastics factories in various countries...so they are the one with SLR McLaren, Ferrari, Maybach, and for everyday use, a 760 and GL500.
The Diablo, a souped up van, a jacked up custom 4x4, mercedes, and Ford Dually and other stable cars are owned by my contractor cousin...
The Aston Martin is owned by real estate developer who just adopted an orphan......
I just lumped them together for discussion purposes. These are all nice people, who work hard, and pay taxes, and contribute to charities.
Yes..some may be aging boomers....but my cousin does track his Diablo...
Many people earn money the hard way....by earning it..working hard and being good at what they do. For every single lottery winner , beverly hills surgeon, or coke dealer....there are hundreds to thousands of honest hard working people who earned their nice rides. YOu can go to any high end neighborhood and see these nice people....
I sometimes feel that this quiet majority is hidden, and any success story in the Good ole USA is automatically assigned to some special circumstance that is not common reality, perhaps because that unusual group ( coke dealer, et al) are most visible in the media.
If you go to the DuPOnt Registry, you will see lots of nice cars...and if you call the owners, you will find them from all segments of society.
You are right, though, that many of them had to accumulate their money over the years...and it is only now that they can enjoy the fruits of their hard labor. There is nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. I actually admire that....more than I would some trust fund kid that blows all their money in one year...or some spoiled movie star who does the same....
The rich or ultra rich people that I come into contact with have enough money to buy many cars. Frequently, the cost of their vehicle is less than 3% of their annual income......and even then, they may buy a used one, just to save money and buy value.....
On the other hand, I see many people who earn only $30,000 per year, yet go out and spend $30,000 on a new car....that is not value and may be overextending. My two sisters are examples of this type of unwise spending.
Remember George Lucas ? Even after the success of Star Wars...he held off on a Ferrari for a long time...and when he finally gave in and wanted to reward himself, he bought a used....USED...Ferrari...
First, "IN YOUR OPINION" goes without saying. I posted it, of course it's my opinion.
Second, you appear to emphatically believe that the BMW is a superior car. Could you please give reasons?
Finally, I tried to be both broad and objective in my criteria. The following statements are not opinion, they are quantifiable facts.
2004 Volkswagen R32
2004 BMW 325xi
Cost: The BMW, similarly equipped, has an initial MSRP that is thousands more. Base price doesn't count when the VW has leather, moonroof, ESC, traction, 6 airbags, climate control, heated seats standard.
Passenger Room: The BMW has more, front and rear.
Cargo Room: The VW has more.
Performance:
BMW 3461lbs 184hp 175ft-lb 18.8lb/hp 5spd AWD
VW 4421 lbs 240hp 236ft-lb 18.4lb/hp 6spd AWD
I'm not trying to say that the R32 is the "best car ever", I'm just trying to point out that it's measurably superior to the 325xi in several quantifiable areas, yet is considered inferior by many people. My point is: why?
If I hit it big, I'd only buy a used Ferrari too...250GT Berlinetta Lusso or something to that effect...
I never stated that I felt the BMW was a superior car, nor do I feel that way. That said, I can easily make arguments both ways based upon different sets of criteria.
My post was an (apparently feeble) attempt to highlight your obvious built in bias, a bias that gave an appearance of zero tolerance for someone else's different set of needs/wants/desires when it comes to car shopping.
Best Regards,
Shipo
...regardless of how big I hit it, I'd still be driving my Cadillacs and Buicks.
I might upgrade from a Firedome to a Fireflite or Adventurer, but that's about the biggest automotive leap up the social ladder you'd see me make. :shades: I don't think my automotive tastes would change any, but I have a feeling that I'd be having to build a few more garages to house the additions I'd be making to my fleet!
I don't need respect on the road, nor do I need to project an image on the road or in my driveway/garage. The only person I have to impress in life is myself.
And, as to "highenders" statement regarding jealousy or resentment, such is not the case here. I can afford what ever vehicle I want under $125K, as I simply find high-end cars ostentatious, and some, even obscene. I've never financed a car, nor did I ever finance a house purchase (always paid cash in each case). Simply, some people who have the means, need not to flaunt it.
The fact is is that they are built very, very well. Better than the product from Ford and GM, I would say. The Warranty does catch the occasional problem area, that's what it's for. Argue and joke about them all you want, but who is it that's building a large, expensive assembly plant in Georgia now? Are they making a profit? Are they aiming to grow their business? As I type these things out I get comical images of chubby Americans sitting in their seats in GM offices eating Krispy Kremes and planning their vacations, not working.
It's all South Korean and Japanese in the car business. Face it. Continuing to tool around on the net putting down the Koreans is a colossal waste of your time. Go ahead and waste it while you consider when you can get your GM in for repairs soon.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I think the R32 would be OK for someone who think driving comfort is secondary, compared to driving fun...R32 is fun...
I think that is quite a statement about the company and its products.
Of course,
the other 33% are in homes and are beard worthy
all I am saying is that some people here are attacking other people's choice of vehicles . Many people buy vehicles to impress, but mostly because they like the vehicle. Many bought them not to impress anyone...but some do buy them exactly to impress those who are impressed. IT is funny that those who are impressed by a vehicle, actually feel negative that they are impressed by the vehicle....and feel the need to label the owners of nicer vehicles........ I think there is a saying about that phenomenon.
There are many true enthusiasts who look at each car, any car, for its merits...for its objective value and characteristics.. The ones who are miffed or feel their ego hurt by someone who has something more expensive is self evident, and speaks volumes about the person who takes that attitude.
""I can afford what ever vehicle I want under $125K, as I simply find high-end cars ostentatious,
See ? Look how judgemental that statement is !! Highend cars are just cars...no different from any other car. Each has its attributes. You pays your money and take your chances. You must drive a Trabant, or Excel, ,cause all the higher end cars are too much..and not merely transportation, eh ?
and some, even obscene.
touche ! Feels good to judge , eh ? I guess you are on bicycle now, since many people in the world can only afford a bike, and feel anyone who buys a polluting car , instead of using public transportation, can be "" crossing the line ""
I've never financed a car, nor did I ever finance a house purchase (always paid cash in each case).
It is generally good not to finanace a car( unless you absolutely have to) , since it is generally a depreciating asset..unless you have a higher end car which may retain its value more. YOu'll end up paying more for a depreciating asset.
However, it is generally good to leverage home purchases, since your house is not an asset when you live in it, it is better to take the money out and invest wisely. But this is off topic.
Simply, some people who have the means, need not to flaunt it.
Why would you feel they are flaunting it ? They just have a different taste in vehicles than you.
Example: I know another rich guy who drives a beat up 1960s ford pickup. He admires the 928 Porsche, but makes no judgement on the people, but says it is a nice car...but he would rather use the money to invest in more real estate.
Are you a flaunting it when you go to a nicer restaurant ? I mean, you can eat top ramen at home, it is cheaper..you can get top ramen instant noodles for $1.00 for 10 when on sale......why "flaunt " your ability to eat steak or seafood ?
Am I getting through ? Why are any of you driving when you can bike ?
Nothing personal, but I just wish to point out the apparent self pity and apparent pathological self consciousness of one's own vehicle, versus another person's vehicle, and then feel the need to belittle others. As you have stated...to each his own. You can save even more money by not buying a car at all...many people even enjoy doing it...and some even point to the pointlessness of people owning and driving vehicles....
many people are not as far off as the tree huggers as they may think, ... they are just on a diff slippery slope....
I respectfully await your reply....
You would do what you do...even admitting you might get more than one vehicle...but make no judgements on other people's choices...
just like others have no real place to judge others....
You see a group of people who have a Ford, Honda, toyota,GM, etc....and they LOOK DOWN in an ostentatious way.....at Kia and Hyundai . Then, these same people turn right around, and complain that maybe someone driving a Mercedes or Bimmer or Ferrari is ' flaunting ' their vehicle !!!!!! Wow.....the hypocrisy is so thick even a Hummer would not get out of it clean !!
How can one look down on Kia, yet complain that others are crossing the line when they buy a BMW ?
I bought a Hyundai XG300 in 2000. It was the better deal, better value than the Honda , and better warranty. They can stand by their product. Honda only gives a 3 year /36 K warranty...????? What kind of client squeezing company does that :sick: ?? If Honda and Toyota were truly great cars..then it should cost the company nothing to warranty the cars for 10 years ( like Hyundai) , or 15 years since they are so called " better " ???
The Hyundai gave us no problems....great value. Great piece of mind.
Don't worry, stay here....it is great to point out the inconsistencies....
Taking a look at the thread title -
Why are so many inferior vehicles
Who is making the judgement call on this one? A Bugatti driver might see the Aston Martin as an inferior vehicle.
considered status symbol
Status is given, it can never be taken. Exclusivity is another matter. Most people would think the order would go something like this.
Hyundia Accent
Honda Accord
GT3
If you can afford the GT3 you probably wouldn't give it a second look, hence no status. If you could only afford the Accent the GT3 might be the be all and end all of all cars.
The reason this thread will go on forever is the diverse viewpoints.
(For those golfers out there) ... do you really think a Callaway is better than a Taylor Made, or a Taylor Made is better than a Ping, or a Ping is better than Nike..?? ... of course you do.! ..
That's why the golf manufacturers are making Kazillions in sales because your favorite player is using one of them ...
In the meantime, has your score been lowered.? - probably not .... but you sure like the way it looks and especially getting that "nod" off the first Tee from the other players ....... :P
Terry.
Why are so many inferior vehicles considered status symbols? By "inferior," I would interpret in this context a high-end "status" vehicle that has poor reliability -- Land Rover (all models), Mercedes (most recent models), and BMW 7 series (recent models).
I think for example that even the most ardent Mercedes loyalists would agree that the cars aren't the over-engineered marvels they were in past decades.
If I had the money, I'd never put up with something as unreliable as these cars seem to be. My money would go to Lexus, thank you very much. Or I'd do as Andre alludes to, and build up a nice fleet of classic cars that I've always admired.
Of course, if Mr./Ms. X is wealthy enough to own 7 vehicles, it might not matter on a given morning if the Land Rover doesn't start; he or she can just use one of the other 6 vehicles.
And maybe he or she has enough servants/underlings/gardeners to take care of having the Land Rover towed to the dealer and serviced. And of course, with a 7-figure income, even something like a new transmission would be just a drop in the bucket.
I did look at the topic...and within that frame work, look at what I posted.....
To the ones who are overzealous about pointing fingers at status symbols, it is funny that even in their own minds they have a heirarchy of vehicles that they look down upon, vehicles that have no major problems, but have less "status " than the so kowtowed HONDA.
HONDA has had multiple transmission problems in most of its vehicles prior to 2004 ( 2nd gear not getting lubrication). The Odysseey which I just bought has fit and finish problems that still cannot be resolved.
So WHY is HONDA considered superior to Kia or Hyundai ?
Why is the STATUS symbol (ie the mercedes) worst than the supposedly superior HONDA ? I do not think MERCEDES is a worst car than a Honda...though Merc had its recent spate of problems.
I owned a Honda before, and TOyota...and also many other cars.
The topic reads " status symbols"....and the connotation is that these so called status symbols are supposedly more inferior....
But the so called "superior" , 'non status symbol' cars , are looked upon as status symbols when compared to Kia or Hyundai....
So I am pointing out the parallelism of the viewpoints....and how it boomerangs back ... WHen one person points to the MERC or BMW, another finger is pointing at the supposedly superior Honda and Toyota .
Please think it thru and post, please. I appreciate any feedback.
My point: supposedly superior vehicles are not all they claim to be.
but that is because the inconsistencies of one's swing is greater than the smaller , different physical attributes of a club. With that said, the differences in club speed, club feel, vibration, distance, etc...is measurable and can make a difference.
This is like saying : if you drive a certain car, you will drive better. Not necessarily....since human error and inattention may cause an accident, regardless of the amount of high tech sophistication of the vehicle.
With that said, I love my Callaways !
But I also use my Sportmart thanksgiving special , the "touring collection clubs" at $79 for the whole set .
NOthing wrong with either...except that once my number 8 club head flew off the shaft during a swing. The club head made a nice approach to the green..... :sick:
I'll say mine this way, my Kia's have held up and I like their bodystyles better than comparable Nissan's, Honda's, Toyota's, etc. I do think that the Long-Haul Warranty was a brilliant move by the Koreans and I have living proof that it works.
That having been said I have no right to say that someone buying a Honda or a Toyota or a Mini-Cooper has lost their marbles and will live to regret their decision.
Car purchases are heavy subjects. A subject that has spawned the old 'Ford vs.Chevy' stickers on countless pick-em-up trucks across America for literally decades. I think that it has to do with the amounts of cash and time involved. In my case there was just something about my buddy's white 1999 Kia Sephia front end design that I just had to pursue further. Whoever designs for Kia doesn't just design, they design with intelligence and long-lasting effect in mind. Something sorely missing from GM since about 1969.
The late 60's Camaro's were the last GM products I took a second look at, seriously!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I'm just not seeing the exceptional design. Just an inoffensive appliance.
My point exactly....
and I have a boxly 'non design' suburban !! So I see your point also.
My point is that the status symbols....are in the eye of the beholder. There are many who yearn deeply for one ( though some are loath to admit it) And there are many who see no point in spending more money on basic transportation....like my friend who still drives a beat up 1960's pickup truck. He invested his money in real estate....so he is well off now.
YOu pays your money, and makes your choices that you have to live with. Of course, I think it is rather irresponsible to spend lots of money if one does not have the money to spend, on something that can be done in a cheaper , more cost effective way.
That type of design appeals to many people. That is why vehicles that look like that are on every mile of our freeways....,
kinda like Polo shirts and jeans...no big design breakthrough there...right ? But simple and appealing nevertheless....
I would have no problem driving that vehicle...and many would argue that it looks better than a Enzo Ferrari.
On the other hand, I drive a really polarizing vehicle...a cayenne....which most people either love or hate (most are the latter type) :confuse: but I feel like :shades:
Now back to status symbols:: ...the highend vehicles have up to date latest designs and technology...and their research will pave the way for the technology to be filtered down and incorporated into more broader spectrum vehicles... That trickle down effect will benefit all of us.
I have no problem driving a 1950s fintail Chevy, or civic, or Ferrari.... There are aspects of highend cars that are not as good as some regular cars...
for example: As I sat in the seats of the SLR McLaren...I felt they were too tight, too stiff, and something that would not be comfortable going across the country. But then you step on the accelerator, and the roar is out of this world....
Now , when I sat in the seats of a Volvo S80...the seats were just about the most comfortable in the world...soft..but enveloping at the same time...one of the best....even better than my custom made Connoly leather Stillen suburban seats.
928s are cheap now to own....the engines run forever, but the upkeep will cost a bundle.
If one is not financially stable, one should not get into 928s or Ferrari's , IMHO. Or any high cost vehicle, for that matter.
I kinda like the old Alfa Romeo GTV-6 Borroco edition. THere was one on sale on ebay....only 23,000 miles. But my wife nixed the idea....oh well....
For instance: those pages don't indicate the "feel" of shifting gears for each. I found the R32's gearbox to be "clunky" (common to a lot of cars where the engine is transverse mounted -- too much distance between shifter and "box") and "vague", while the BMW's (though not the best) felt smoother and more precise.
Though, the R32 is still a 'hoot' to drive.
Here's a pic of my friend's R32:
Now that everyone feels disarmed-
This has to be one of the dumbest threads ever. What constitutes inferior? Oh, yeah, its subjective. What constitutes value- oh, its subjective and depends on the situation. What constitutes a status symbol? Oh yeah, its subjective. Where my folks live, the coolest car you can get right now is a Prius. Where I live, I think its still an Escalade. I really can't say I find either car remotely appealing. I must have no status. Oh darn. I don't care if you have an R32 or a 325. I am glad you like your vehicle and feel like it s the best car you could've gotten.
Okay, you can go back to your nonsense now.
He said that a certain import was nice (it was about Toyota's the family seemed to favor)but that he was fed up with them and bought a Trailblazer SUV. According to him it is now the safest, coolest and best value in a rig that he has been able to find in a long time.
Or words to that affect, or is it supposed to be effect?
See what I mean? Cars are a very personal subject and deep as the deepest well, too. Agree? Disagree? No comments?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Your taste in that Alfa proves that one can be happy for a minor cash outlay...maintenance on the other hand...
The bad thing about status-cars like that SLR is that most are tuned for hard driving, and will mainly be used by pseudo-celebs and inheritance elite as attention-getters when cruising down a trendy street at 25mph. Anyone would be more comfortable in the everyday old Volvo.
I won't comment on the Cayenne, loosk wise...but if you can appreciate the engineering, which I think you probably do...then more power to you. You bought it because you like it, rather than liking what people think of it.
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Diamond has a superb catalog you can order - (and it's free) ...
Who needs the name when you can do the same for a third of the price ... then again, we couldn't be having a
discussiondebate here, now would we...?Terry
Thanks for the lead.....
and now to avoid being off topic...hmm....
OK...some status cars are less reliable than the auto makers with a little less status...
There is a heirarchy, I guess....and the higher you go...the more thrills, but less reliability ? More maintenance ?
With a Ferrari, a mileage of 30,000 is considered excessive. :0
and would say that in general, I would NOT consider BMW , Mercedes, or Porsche , to be inferior to Honda, Toyota or GM.
I would also say that status symbols are also variable. I know many teen racers who think having a TL or modded Civic to be big in status...but having a Mercedes is less status.
wife said no more cars....
I agree that my friend should live a little....the one with the beatup pickup, who owns lots of real estate. Oh well, go figure...
Did you notice that a lot of Lexus's design tend to mimic Mercedes ? A few years back..their top model design was almost a copy of a Mercedes sedan.
I think SLR may be more everyday friendly than, say, a Lamborghini Diablo or Ferrari, due to Mercedes' hand in taming it.. You can drive it to the local Starbucks with no hiccups. I do not know or think he tracks it ...as it only had about 300 miles on it.... Maybe he drives it at to enjoy his hard labors...he is a physician..and takes emergency calls....
I won't comment on the Cayenne, loosk wise
Umm...thanks...I will take that as a nice civic gesture
...but if you can appreciate the engineering, which I think you probably do...then more power to you.
Yes...I think it has some OK engineering. It has dry sump lubrication, can go offroad or to Ski country without chains, then go top speed 165 mph....I kinda like the integration of the dual personalities.
You bought it because you like it, rather than liking what people think of it.
you took the words right out of my mouth....
And yeah, I've certainly noticed that about Lexus. The original LS was an updated W126, and the current LS is an updated W140. There's too much similarity there for it to be any kind of coincidence. Not a good thing in the case of the current LS either, as the 140 is considered by many to be too big and ugly...hey, people say the same about the LS. But seeing as Lexus was created to take on MB, it is expected and almost acceptable. And the new LS is finally shaking previous-generation S-class cues, so there's progress.
I hope the SLR guy at least knows in some part what the car is about, and isn't just another one with too much money and not enough sense. Hard labors or not...not a justification.
I'll just say the Cayenne has provided some extra cash for Porsche...but if I could pick a model from their line, that wouldn't be it! I'd probably prefer the looks of the goofy old Alfa, too bad it would be very temparamental.
We are in agreement on Lexus...too bad they had to copy, instead of innovate . Aye to that.
My friend with the SLR and Ferrari is doing fine . But it is not about the vehicle..for the Man makes the vehicle, and not the other way around. If one is not enough a man without the vehicle....he will not be enough of a man with it.
Looks are important, but is subjective and is not everything. The 1981-83 DeLorean comes to mind. The things that the Cayenne can do, will do. check out the performance figures at the end of any issue of Road & Track .
The Cayenne is the ticket for many enthusiasts who love cars and family...not necessarily in that order. We traded in our Boxster S for the Cayenne, and have not an ounce of regret...but much happiness with such an ugly vehicle.
I guess for some people, a car is an appliance ( not you or anyone specific) ....but to others, a car is a statement about you, your love of freedom, love of driving, and a love that would make one take the long way home just because it means a few extra minutes in your beloved vehicle....
ooops...it is not politically correct to go cruising now that oil is expensive....
We are in agreement on Lexus...too bad they had to copy, instead of innovate . Aye to that.
My friend with the SLR and Ferrari is doing fine . But it is not about the vehicle..for the Man makes the vehicle, and not the other way around. If one is not enough a man without the vehicle....he will not be enough of a man with it.
Looks are important, but is subjective and is not everything. The 1981-83 DeLorean comes to mind. The things that the Cayenne can do, will do. check out the performance figures at the end of any issue of Road & Track .
The Cayenne is the ticket for many enthusiasts who love cars and family...not necessarily in that order. We traded in our Boxster S for the Cayenne, and have not an ounce of regret...but much happiness with such an ugly vehicle.
I guess for some people, a car is an appliance ( not you or anyone specific) ....but to others, a car is a statement about you, your love of freedom, love of driving, and a love that would make one take the long way home just because it means a few extra minutes in your beloved vehicle....
ooops...it is not politically correct to go cruising now that oil is expensive....
Oh well, I'll later have something to say about Hyundai/Kia. I don't think that will be ignored, what with iluvmysephia in here as well as the anti-Hyundai-and-especially-Kia crowd.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=120
However, that was then, and this is now, and wow have things changed...more later!
Well, the guys were all over the Azera, and poor Impala didn't even get a passing glance!
I agree with most of what you said...
though I think most BMW and Mercedes retain their values pretty well....at least compard to US vehicles & Korean vehicles.
New innovations and new markets will result in growing pains....
I went with my friend to buy a C230 ...and she paid only $29500 out the door...with alloy wheels, CD changer...leather, etc....it was really a good deal...
another friend got Mercedes to buy their C230 back...cause the air conditioning was not cold...and now they drive a FX35.
If you had the money, you would be in a slightly different mind set...and may or may not have the same mentality when you are making choices...
Mr X is wealthy enough to drive the car , buy the extended warranty, and enjoy the experience.
Overall I agree with your post.....I think most people did......therefore it went 'invisible'
Kinda like the many accords out there.......
Hyundai gives better value and a better warranty .
If one's criteria is value and reliability and money...then they should consider these products...instead of overpriced Japanese products.....
They should not buy the ' mid level status symbols', and consider the value oriented models....
Why do many buy mid level inferior vehicles when better choices are out there...??
I have had Hyundais and have a Honda.