You can't fix stupid people for not maintaining their car properly. Toyota sold millions of V6 engine worldwide, and the sludge issue is mainly in US. On the other hand, VW sludge issue is real if you don't use synthetic oil.
The vast majority of American vehicles are built in Mexico, Canada and now China.
Where in the hell does misinformation like this originate? While some American nameplates are built in Mexico and Canada (I'm not aware of a single one from China), a simple walk around a new-car lot will disprove this theory about "most". The only GM's I'm aware of that are built in Mexico are the HHR, Avalanche, and I believe Suburbans. I'm not aware of a single car line built in Mexico. Canada...another story. I know the Impala is built there...but even when I looked at new Chevys in the '70's, certain models were built there...the UAW is and has been there, too. But even GM's Chevy Cobalt, one of their cheapest cars, is built in northeast Ohio with a very high North-American content per the window label. You can buy an American brand with high North American content, but it requires reading the labels. And I'd say that that's easier to do than what kenym is saying. Remember where engineering and design take place, and where the Corporate office is located. While the foreign manufacturers do employ American workers, it is widely reported that the Big Three still employee more people, and utilize more American suppliers, than any foreign-based manufacturer.
I'm trying to be a gentleman about Toyota's issues, but when you hear how perfect they've been, and how the Big Three could never get an image break in the last 25 years, I have to say, "it's about time".
I don't know about anybody else, but I am exhausted about hearing how people had a lousy '86 Celebrity or the like. Sheesh, would people have not bought a '65 Mustang because their '41 Ford was bad? Same thing...not logical.
Bill P.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
>You can't fix stupid people for not maintaining their car properly. Toyota sold millions of V6 engine worldwide, and the sludge issue is mainly in US.
Again toyota and friends are blaming the buyers.
Didn't toyota have a longer oil change interval for those sludgemobiles and then they shortened the recommendation? Didn't they change the size of the drains in the heads so they didn't sludge up so easily? Didn't they change the PCV systems to extract more contaminants from the sump and gallery, kind of quietly, in the middle of that?
Maybe you should say: "You can't fix stupid car companies for not designing their car properly and recommending proper service intervals."
misinformation comes from people like you; the Ford Fusion, the bread and butter of Ford, is built in Mexico and he was correct a good majority, not all, of American Car Manufactures products are either assembled in other countries or have a good chunk of parts made in other countries!
GM is using a tremendous amount of part that are made in China now, to cut cost down; so the loon that try to say people who by Japanese cars don't support America are just ignorant people!!
when you by GM, Ford, or Chrysler, some of that money has to go to the assembly plants in other countries and too those companies, such as some in China that make parts and components for GM!! the people who think that if they buy American all their money is going to the US are just deluding themselves!
"On the other hand even with problems Toyota and Honda have had of late. Toyota, Honda and Hyundai have invested millions of dollars in building plants and jobs in THIS country"
Do you think that they wanted to build their factories here and stop importing from Japan because they love the USA or do you think it came down to that it was cheaper? Maybe they figured they could save some money from building closer to the demand area and maybe convince more people that their cars are just as american as a Ford or Chevy. I see only one small problem (all the billions of dollars of profits leave this country and never come back) It will be interesting with all the money that Toyota is about to lose to see how American they will be in the future.
" Another lousy quality from an american supplier, DANA that was also responsible for rusty frame on earlier Tacoma model"
Toyota recalled 1995 to 2000 Tacoma's for frame rot. Basically if you lived anywhere that they put salt on the roads you had a really good chance that your Tacoma's frame would rot from corrosion and break in half causing your brake lines to snap and if you are going 70MPH you could see how that could be bad for Toyota. I have had 8 Toyota trucks and know for a fact that they had the rusty frame problem since 1981 when they were imported from Japan. I am not sure why they only recalled 1995 - 2000 but would guess that they sold a ton of trucks and the liability was too high to not recall. If you live where there is salt on the roads I want you to look around and see how many old Toyota trucks you see on the road? Next to none because they are the bone yard.
what difference does it make, its still not even built in this country! so much for thinking your money is going all to Detroit when some of it has to go to the Mexican gov't and the Mexican workers assembling your car!!
Well,for folks who think that Toyota/Lexus resale values have dropped --guess what- they are in for an unexpected surprise. Toyota/Scion/Lexus values still are among the industry`s best. :P So to all the Toyota naysayers and Toyota bashers- enjoy !! Here`s the link: :shades: link title
actually I didn't take it off topic, some anti-Japanese posters did several posts ago and I was just presenting a counterpoint example of the American car companies
actually, if you'd look back, I've posted several times about what I think about Toyota's prospects and recovery from their current problems!
personally, I think its going to take at least a 1 or 2 years till they get some new designs and long enough time away from these recalls that people start to forget about them that their sales increase again; I don't think they will decline to the depths that Chrysler and GM did pre-bankruptcy/bailouts since they seem to be admitting guilt, because they were caught, and trying to get themselves out of this hole as soon as possible!
Well,for folks who think that Toyota/Lexus resale values have dropped --guess what- they are in for an unexpected surprise. Toyota/Scion/Lexus values still are among the industry`s best.
Kelley Blue Book, which supplies our resale values, has not yet adjusted the three-year values we use as a factor in our rankings (although it has dropped values on used Toyotas by as much as 3%). Almost certainly there will be a dip in long-term values of new vehicles as the market reacts to the recalls. But Kiplinger believes that resale values on affected Toyotas will eventually rebound.
Sure, if I use out of date data and make my own predictions, I look pretty good too.
So to all the Toyota naysayers and Toyota bashers- enjoy !!
Its so weird to hear the Toyota fanboys sounding defensive about Toyota after 2009 and the challenges for Ford, GM and Chrysler. Last year was really weird and this year has been equally odd so far.
Its so weird to hear the Toyota fanboys sounding defensive about Toyota after 2009 and the challenges for Ford, GM and Chrysler. Last year was really weird and this year has been equally odd so far.
well I think that is right; I think what everyone was so surpirsed about Toyota is that after everything and the crappy stupidity American's had been dealing with when it came to Chrysler, GM, and Ford pre bailouts and bankruptcy, they couldn't believe that a company that was suppose to be so good as Toyota could make similar mistakes in regards to recalls and covering things up! we didn't put up with it with the Detroit big wigs so why would Toyota think they could get away with it when Detroit didn't?
engineer....I'm kind of wondering myself how much resale value will fall for toyota. I saw those estimates by Kelly Blue Book. I think it will be even steeper than that.
The companies who deal with and have purchased Toyota's as fleet cars, can't really put them back on the road until they're fixed. Same goes for the rental car agencies (who all have pulled their Toyotas from their rental fleets). That's a bunch of cars that aren't on the road that Toyota made. I'm sure those will put some sort of dent in resale...especially of renters, and fleet users won't drive them. There's just no way to tell if those cars a fixed or not by the end user.
As has beeen widely reported, sales of new Toyotas is down.....WAY DOWN. That affects demand, across the board, new and used.
I believe when the smoke clears in a couple of months (assuming it will clear, and no other bombshells are announced by toyota), where demand will be for their vehicles.
The losers here, in addition to Toyota employees, are the dealerships that sell their vehicles, and those who own recent Toyotas. They're the ones who'll take a big hit, too.
Just saw this from the AP. It really kind of sums up Toyota right now.......
the automaker's recent bungling over a spate of global recalls appears so out of character.
Those very principles of efficiency and flawlessness that earned Toyota Motor Corp. a near-perfect reputation couldn't prevent problems cropping up in areas outside the factory, areas just as crucial these days in the industry — design development, crisis management and software programming.
Toyota management simply failed to practice what they had long preached the rank-and-file, Anand Sharma, chief executive of TBM Consulting Group, based in Durham, North Carolina, told The Associated Press.
"Toyota managers did not respond to the early signals. That's when they should have identified the root causes," said Sharma, who teaches Toyota production methods to businesses. "If the Toyota brand no longer stands for quality, what does it stand for?"
That last sentence in particular....Toyota's quality has been flushed down the commode. So, what does Toyota/Lexus/Scion stand for now?
I can't answer the question. That's also what will keep people out of Toyota showrooms.
I am aware that the Fusion is built in Mexico, and I dislike it for that, despite the positive press. Laugh away if you will. Their Taurus (which I think is the sharpest sedan out there right now) is built in Chicago.
I'm laughing, but only because I agree with it! That's my one hangup about the Fusion...the whole made in Mexico thing. It's not that I don't have confidence in the Mexican factory to build a quality car. I'd just prefer that it be built in the US.
I like the looks of the Taurus, but just wasn't that impressed when I sat in a few at the DC auto show. The car just feels too bulky to me, without really being all that roomy. Now the trunk was decent, but inside it felt a bit claustrophobic. I guess I was just expecting a bigger car, too. I know they call it a full-size, but it feels more intermediate to me.
The vast majority of American vehicles are built in Mexico, Canada and now China.
Do you have any reference to support this statement?
Take a look at the OICA's statistics reported on 6/24/09 on 2008 vehicle productions of major countries:
Japan: 11.6 million China: 9.3 million US: 8.7 million Germany: 6.0 million ... Mexico: 2.2 million Canada: 2.1 million
In that year, total vehicles sales in the US was 13.2 million. How can you say the vast majority of American cars were build in Mexico, Canada? Just go check the VIN in a parking lot to see the where they are build.
Well,for folks who think that Toyota/Lexus resale values have dropped --guess what- they are in for an unexpected surprise. Toyota/Scion/Lexus values still are among the industry`s best. So to all the Toyota naysayers and Toyota bashers- enjoy !! Here`s the link:
LOL...Nah, that's yesterday's news for data compiled how long along. In reality, this is where things are today:
Credit: Reuters/ Mike Cassese
ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) is considering increased incentives and an extended warranty program to combat consumer concerns about a deepening product safety crisis, a source briefed on still-developing plans said on Sunday.
Toyota, reeling from its largest recall in history, is discussing a range of options with its U.S. dealers to support sales, including $1,000 in addition to the current $1,000 in cash incentives to returning Toyota customers, the source told Reuters.
Toyota's current $1,000 in "loyalty" bonus matches incentives offered by General Motors Co GM.UL, Ford Motor Co (F.N), Chrysler and Hyundai Motor Co (005380.KS) to lure Toyota customers.
Other options Toyota is considering include a free maintenance program -- such as oil changes and regular mile services -- and a new warranty program that at least matches Hyundai's market-leading 10-year, 100,000-mile powertrain warranty, the source said.
Toyota currently offers a five-year powertrain warranty, or 60,000 miles, according to its website. It also offers a three-year basic coverage warranty for "all components other than normal wear and maintenance items."
The source declined to be identified because the plan has not been made public and has yet to be finalized.
Toyota spokeswoman Celeste Migliore said the company reviews many options to remain competitive for each month, but declined to comment on details.
Don Esmond, senior vice president of Toyota Motor Sales, told Reuters in an interview on Saturday that Toyota will consider "competitive incentives" to attract consumers and take steps to reinforce the brand.
Toyota's U.S. sales dropped 16 percent in January to the lowest level in more than a decade, after it suspended sales of top-selling vehicles subject to safety recalls, including the Camry and Corolla sedans.
AutoNation (AN.N) CEO Mike Jackson said on Saturday that by April, Toyota's sales would return to near-normal levels. Jackson said that for the full year, Toyota's U.S. market share will drop 1 percentage point, from 17 percent in 2009.
AutoNation handles about 3 percent of Toyota's U.S. sales and is the biggest dealer group in the country. About 20 percent of its overall sales are Toyota vehicles.
Esmond said Toyota met with its dealer advertising committee this past week to come up with ideas to bring in more customers.
"We're going to need something to reinforce the brand. I think we'll look at anything and everything," he told Reuters. "We are going to provide the appropriate incentives."
The automaker will also pay for the inventory financing costs its dealers have suffered during the suspension of sales, Esmond said.
Kelley Blue Book dropped the resale values of recalled Toyotas for the second time in four days Monday, leaving them as much as 4 percent or $300 to $750 lower than a week ago, depending on the model.
Recalls and a slow response to safety questions have put a dent in the market value of cars long seen as money in the bank for their owners.
As values drop and safety issues keep surfacing, the world's No. 1 carmaker faces increasing risks that even long-steadfast customers will defect.
After all, a key factor in Toyota's rise to the top was its history of quality vehicles with high resale values. If its used cars no longer live up to their formerly lofty reputation, getting buyers in the showroom may be harder and its longtime market strength could be in jeopardy.
The auto research Web site Edmunds.com estimates resale or trade-in values could fall up to 10 percent in the short term.
Already, some dealers are refusing to accept Toyotas for trade while others are paying considerably less for them.
Kelley Blue Book has seen a decline in the transaction prices on the new 2010 Prius in the last week and said the hybrid has been selling for $1,000 to $1,500 less (or closer to dealer invoice value than suggested retail price). Therefore, Kelley Blue Book announced that it will adjust the New Car Blue Book transaction value of the 2010 Toyota Prius down by $1,000 to $1,500 this Friday.
Kelley Blue Book also said it had dropped the used-car values of the Toyota Prius by 1.5 percent. This would apply to 2009 and older models. The adjustment is in response to the announcement Monday of a recall involving 2010 Prius hybrids for brake system problems.
This follows Kelley Blue Book’s announcement last Friday that company analysts initially decreased the used-car values of previously recalled Toyota models by 1 to 3 percent in response to the slowing demand for Toyota models in the marketplace following the pedal entrapment and sticky accelerator recalls.
In news that will likely surprise exactly no one, Irvine-based Kelley Blue Book has quantified in data what has already been a topic around water coolers for weeks: In the wake of Toyota’s recent recalls, interest for the company’s cars and their resale values are heading south.
According the Irvine-based data firm, its latest study reveals that 27 percent of consumers who said they were considering a Toyota prior to the recall now say they no longer are considering the brand for their next vehicle purchase, an increase of six percent from the 21 percent who indicated they had defected from Toyota the prior week (immediately following the initial recall announcement on Jan. 21 affecting 2.3 million cars over “sticky accelerators”).
In addition, the study found, 28 percent of those who said they were considering Toyota’s youth-oriented Scion brand and 23 percent of those who said they were considering its upscale Lexus brand prior to the Toyota recalls, now say they are no longer considering those brands.
“Now nearly half (49 percent) of the car shoppers who have defected from Toyota say they are not sure if they will consider the brand again, even once Toyota’s problems are resolved,” the report adds.
The company, known for its assessment of vehicle values, has also seen the worth of used Toyota’s drop in the wake of the company’s recalls. Here are some findings from KBB’s study:
* All Used Recalled Toyota Models: Used-car values declined 1-3 percent (depending on the model) on February 5, 2010, and will drop an additional 1.5 percent on Friday, February 12, 2010
* New 2010 Prius: New Car Blue Book Value (transaction price) will drop by $1,000 – $1,500 on February 12, 2010
* Used Prius, 2009 and older models: Used-car value dropped 1.5 percent on February 5, 2010, and will drop an additional 1.5 percent on February 12, 2010
* Used Corolla, 2009 and older models: Used-car values dropped 1.5 percent on February 5, 2010, and will drop an additional 1.5 percent on February 12, 2010
Many Toyota owners who are trying to sell their cars may have to drop their asking prices.
Resale values for Toyotas that have been recalled fell by as much as 3% this week, or about $450 on a car valued at $15,000, according to Kelley Blue Book. They could fall further next week if Toyota's quality issues stay in the news.
And they likely will.
Next week, Toyota is slated to testify before a congressional committee about the automaker's massive recalls. The federal government also continues to investigate brake issues in the 2010 Toyota Prius hybrid.
Meanwhile, owners of models that Toyota has told its dealers to stop selling, such as the popular Camry, are finding it tough to attract buyers.
Todd Oakley, 46, of Jackson, who is trying to sell a 2007 Camry, said he is waiting for the controversy to blow over.
"We'll still try to sell it," he said. "I'm sure it will take a little extra time." Selling a recalled Toyota
Tony Schepis sees a challenging task in his future: selling a recalled Toyota.
"I think it's going to be impossible," said Schepis, who owns Schep's Garage in Lansing, where he often sells vehicles for his customers.
A few inquirers of the green 2009 Toyota Corolla stopped calling after Toyota stopped selling and making eight recalled models last week, including the Corolla.
"It's been absolutely quiet," said Schepis. "People have backed right off. I think they're waiting to see what's going to come of this."
deltheking - Old magazine articles are great to try and defend Toyota resale values, but trying telling that to todays consumers who are trying to trade them in and they are not accepting Toyota or they are selling them outright and there are no buyers for them :shades:
xlu just so you know, this isn't the forum for this, steve gave me a link to a more better suited forum which I have already posted in; I have the link below!!
check my post their and you'll see that half of GMs products are assembled and built and other countries, about a quarter of Ford's products are, and just a few Chrysler products are! got the information from Kelly Blue Book and Car & Driver so if you'd like to dispute the info I'd suggest writing to them!
half of GMs products are assembled and built and other countries, about a quarter of Ford's products are, and just a few Chrysler products are!
Thanks for pointing out the other forum. By your statement above, much less than half of the American branded cars sold in the US are made outside the US. Thanks for supporting my dispute over the other post's "vast majority built outside the US" statement.
Considering your personal souring on the Toyota brand and especially the company, what car/car company, at this point in time, would you say you have the most confidence in and/or which one would you consider for your next purchase?
carnaught...while not directed at me, I am in the market for a new car. And, I've owned Toyotas in the past.....a 93 Camry...reliable, but it was a 4 cyl and had a nasty habit of shaking pretty badly at idle...even when new. Still, I put 110K+ miles on it with no major problems. An Avalon (which replaced the Camry). No problems there...routine maintenance was about it. Then 5 or so years ago, I had a Tacoma. Within a week of driving it out of the showroom, the brakes failed. Pedal went all the way to the floor, no stopping. Fortunately, I was in a parking lot when that happened and wasn't traveling more than about 10-15 MPH. And, I was able to steer it towards one of those concrete things which did stop it, albeit not before the rim was cracked and a tie rod bent in the process.
I took it to my selling dealership (towed) and they inspected everything.....master cylinder, brake lines, pads, everything. They couldn't find the cause and said everything was normal. I did file the event with the NHTSA, at which time the dealership must have got wind of me filing and got the regional rep involved. They took the truck back (with less than 100 miles on the odo). Don't know if it's true, but the dealer's service manager said they were sending it back to the factory to see what might have gone wrong.
I've had troubles with other makes before, too (namely a Cadillac) which was bought back as a lemon. Long story that has no place here since this is a Toyota thread.
Bottom line, Toyota's haven't been any more, or less, reliable than any other brand I've owned. Truth is, there's nothing they offer in their lineup that interests me now, anyway. Maybe a Scion for my son, but now, I won't entertain that notion given what's happened with Toyota the last few months.
What would I consider instead? Again for my son, maybe a Fusion. Perhaps an Altima. He has a Hyndai Elantra now, which has been sterling for the 100K miles he's put on it. Maybe another Hyundai.
So say, a total 5% decrease in trade value..Still that is a miniscule number .On a 10k car it is a $500 drop and on a 20k car- a $1000 drop. It`s not as if there are 20-30% drops.. Which happens instantly when you drive a Dodge out of the dealer's lot [More like 40% !! ]
And this will be temporary,for say 3 or 4 months . But if Toyota is really planning the 10yr/100k powertrain warr and then free maintenance program like BMW with oil changes and other maintenance---then it can be a real game changer in the mainstream auto market!! Hope Toyota implements this free maintenance program !! :shades:
I think this whole thing of trade-in is a joke. Trading a Toyota on any other brand right now will be a killer. No dealer is going to give you anywhere near low blue book on a late model Toyota. Maybe selling privately the 5% discount would fly. Not with any dealer trade. Toyota is going to be a hot potato trade for at least a couple years. My advice is get what Toyota offers for upgrades and live with your decision. Unless you really like throwing money away. That includes Revit. Right now getting rid of a Toyota is kind of like getting a divorce. You are screwed.
There was a television commercial for a local Toyota dealer pretty much mimicking the national Toyota mea culpa commercials along with an offer for 0% financing on all Toyota vehicles across the board.
gagrice...I agree. I think it would be a disaster to even try to trade a Toyota right now. Even if the dealer agreed to do so, the offer is going to be so ridiculous that it won't be worth the effort. As a private seller, I believe buyers are going to be in "bargain hunting" mode. So, their offers are probably going to be just as insulting.
I think people will wait until the 2011 models come out to see how Toyota has addressed their quality and safety problems with the new models. Even with the new models, those have been finalized for awhile. So, I don't know how much Toyota can change this late in the game.
So, we'll see what the message is moving forward. This year is shot for them. Maybe 2011, too.
Still, '07s-'10s will carry the stigma no matter what Toyota does in the future.
Now a lot of wiggle room to improve things now or in the foreseeable future to do private sales and/or trade-ins until Toyota does some substantial and recognizable redesign. It wouldn't hurt for them to be aggressive with extended warranties (which it looks like they might do) and substantial rebates (which hurts resale value, even more). They have to find a way to move current inventory, however. Those are the only two ways I can see to get people in their showrooms right now.
Same here! Even the name Taurus says "intermediate" rather than full-size. The Taurus is only a full-size car by rental company standards. Bring back the Crown Vic!
By the way, is there going to be a police package of the Taurus?
Toyotas are worth what they are worth, no more and no less. They are worth whatever they will actually sell for on a real free market.
I find it hilarious that some Americans think they can sue Toyota for supposed "lost" resale value. It was always worth what it can sell for, and it still is. As someone so eloquently stated before, this would be like GM owners suing oil companies for rising gas prices which led to supposed "lost" resale value in trucks and SUVS.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
andres...anyone can sue anyone else (or any company, for that matter) for any reason. Whether they're successful is a totally different matter.
However, suing oil companies for reduced resale due to market conditions, which owners of trucks from GM, Ford, Chryco, Nissan, Toyota, or any other company that makes heavy, V8 powered trucks over issues that are out of the car company's control is quite different. Toyota is being sued for safety issues. Those are something that are directly related to the manufacturer and their vehicles being worth less.
They may be successful based on that. They may be not. But, it seems some law firm feels they may have merit. I'm not a lawyer. But, if my odds of failure of taking on a case is higher than my odds of success, I wouldn't put out the time, nor the money to bring the suit to the steps of the courst system. These claims are taken on a contingency basis. If the lawfirm doesn't win it (or at least an out of court settelment), they get nothing for their efforts.
I've seen some reports stating that the auction houses won't even put Toyotas up for auction. That's not good. To those auction houses, the Toyotas aren't worth anything, regardless of the reason.
But, you are right. They are worth what they're worth, even if that's not much.
On a radio newscast this afternoon they said the President of Toyota company had said there is no additional problem to be fixed. They disagree with the NHSTA. The pedal and the mats are it. He sent a letter to Congress to that effect.
These incentives are great news for me since I plan to purchase a 2010 or 2011 Yaris. But "competitive incentives" is not enough for me. I want outstanding incentives. I will continue to wait. Believe it or not I have been waiting almost a decade for something like this to happen to Toyota; since the engine sludge days of the late 90's, but Toyota dealers were tough to negotiate with and their slaes actually rose from the late 90's up to this past January. If more people defect from the Toyota brand I will finally get my outstanding incentives on my Yaris. The last Toyota I bought, a 1990 Celica was almost 20 years ago.
The Taurus has a claustrophobic interior that in my view is not unlike that of the new LaCrosse. The side windows are too small, the A-pillars too thick, and the center console too high and wide. In both cars, it feels like your legs have to be confined to a too-narrow tunnel.
I hope this isn't a harbinger of cars to come. I like bucket seats, consoles, and floor shifts, but please make the console low and narrow enough that I can climb over it and exit the car from the opposite side if I so choose! And I'd really appreciate better outward visibility.
If more people defect from the Toyota brand I will finally get my outstanding incentives on my Yaris.
Don't hold your breath. The Yaris is about all they can legally sell. I imagine they are dealing tough on them right now. A 2009 Corolla should go for pennies on the dollar.
Riding in a death trap to save a few bucks a week on gas? It's the only thing sold in America that labels someone a moron more than driving a "smart car" that requires premium fuel and gets the worst gas mileage/pound short of a Hummer.
At least the Yaris is cheap & reliable .......... but look at page 53 of the March 2010 issue of Consumer Reports - essentially America's bible for car buying - and note that of the 42 "small cars" rated, only the Dodge Caliber and Chevy Cobalt & Aveo rank worse than theYaris. Look at the left hand corner of the page for the explanation as to why it is specifically NOT recommended.
I live in the greater Kansas City area ......... and don't believe I have ever seen one on the road,
You sure won't have to worry about sudden unintended acceleration .......... since the thing doesn't even have enough power to produce even INTENDED acceleration!!.
imid.....see, now that's the biggest problem Toyota has right now. It seems they continue to hide from fact. We know that they're going to install break overide systems on cars coming off the assembly line now. And, they're telling dealership service depts to install new code to address their issues, too. Yet, they won't tell the public what the new code is for. Maybe the dealers can tell the owners, though.
The first step for Toyota to improve their image is to drop the silly..."floormats and accelerator pedals are causing all the problems". When in reality, there's just too much evidence from experts stating that it's most probably the code causing both braking and UA issues.
I think it's yet another attempt by Toyota (this time, the very upper end of their management) to try to minimize the problems
Until they give a full account, people will continue to be leery of their vehicles. And owners, especially those who aren't keeping up with this debacle, don't know that the root cause of potential safety problems, may or may not have the correct fix.
Until Toyota quits trying to conceal their multitude of problems, the issues are going to continue to bite them in their posteriors. And, whatever recovery they are trying to enact, will be delayed.
I think that there is a great deal more to come from Toyota. They have known that vehicles are not safe to drive and they need to come clean. I check many UK and European sites and they are saying just this.
Comments
Where in the hell does misinformation like this originate? While some American nameplates are built in Mexico and Canada (I'm not aware of a single one from China), a simple walk around a new-car lot will disprove this theory about "most". The only GM's I'm aware of that are built in Mexico are the HHR, Avalanche, and I believe Suburbans. I'm not aware of a single car line built in Mexico. Canada...another story. I know the Impala is built there...but even when I looked at new Chevys in the '70's, certain models were built there...the UAW is and has been there, too. But even GM's Chevy Cobalt, one of their cheapest cars, is built in northeast Ohio with a very high North-American content per the window label. You can buy an American brand with high North American content, but it requires reading the labels. And I'd say that that's easier to do than what kenym is saying. Remember where engineering and design take place, and where the Corporate office is located. While the foreign manufacturers do employ American workers, it is widely reported that the Big Three still employee more people, and utilize more American suppliers, than any foreign-based manufacturer.
I'm trying to be a gentleman about Toyota's issues, but when you hear how perfect they've been, and how the Big Three could never get an image break in the last 25 years, I have to say, "it's about time".
I don't know about anybody else, but I am exhausted about hearing how people had a lousy '86 Celebrity or the like. Sheesh, would people have not bought a '65 Mustang because their '41 Ford was bad? Same thing...not logical.
Bill P.
Again toyota and friends are blaming the buyers.
Didn't toyota have a longer oil change interval for those sludgemobiles and then they shortened the recommendation?
Didn't they change the size of the drains in the heads so they didn't sludge up so easily?
Didn't they change the PCV systems to extract more contaminants from the sump and gallery, kind of quietly, in the middle of that?
Maybe you should say:
"You can't fix stupid car companies for not designing their car properly and recommending proper service intervals."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM is using a tremendous amount of part that are made in China now, to cut cost down; so the loon that try to say people who by Japanese cars don't support America are just ignorant people!!
when you by GM, Ford, or Chrysler, some of that money has to go to the assembly plants in other countries and too those companies, such as some in China that make parts and components for GM!! the people who think that if they buy American all their money is going to the US are just deluding themselves!
Do you think that they wanted to build their factories here and stop importing from Japan because they love the USA or do you think it came down to that it was cheaper?
Maybe they figured they could save some money from building closer to the demand area and maybe convince more people that their cars are just as american as a Ford or Chevy. I see only one small problem (all the billions of dollars of profits leave this country and never come back) It will be interesting with all the money that Toyota is about to lose to see how American they will be in the future.
Toyota recalled 1995 to 2000 Tacoma's for frame rot. Basically if you lived anywhere that they put salt on the roads you had a really good chance that your Tacoma's frame would rot from corrosion and break in half causing your brake lines to snap and if you are going 70MPH you could see how that could be bad for Toyota. I have had 8 Toyota trucks and know for a fact that they had the rusty frame problem since 1981 when they were imported from Japan. I am not sure why they only recalled 1995 - 2000 but would guess that they sold a ton of trucks and the liability was too high to not recall. If you live where there is salt on the roads I want you to look around and see how many old Toyota trucks you see on the road? Next to none because they are the bone yard.
Y'all can renew the where was it made discussion over in Buying American Cars What Does It Mean? if you like.
how long before Toyota mends it up?
So to all the Toyota naysayers and Toyota bashers- enjoy !! Here`s the link: :shades:
link title
actually, if you'd look back, I've posted several times about what I think about Toyota's prospects and recovery from their current problems!
personally, I think its going to take at least a 1 or 2 years till they get some new designs and long enough time away from these recalls that people start to forget about them that their sales increase again; I don't think they will decline to the depths that Chrysler and GM did pre-bankruptcy/bailouts since they seem to be admitting guilt, because they were caught, and trying to get themselves out of this hole as soon as possible!
Kelley Blue Book, which supplies our resale values, has not yet adjusted the three-year values we use as a factor in our rankings (although it has dropped values on used Toyotas by as much as 3%). Almost certainly there will be a dip in long-term values of new vehicles as the market reacts to the recalls. But Kiplinger believes that resale values on affected Toyotas will eventually rebound.
Sure, if I use out of date data and make my own predictions, I look pretty good too.
So to all the Toyota naysayers and Toyota bashers- enjoy !!
Its so weird to hear the Toyota fanboys sounding defensive about Toyota after 2009 and the challenges for Ford, GM and Chrysler. Last year was really weird and this year has been equally odd so far.
Its so weird to hear the Toyota fanboys sounding defensive about Toyota after 2009 and the challenges for Ford, GM and Chrysler. Last year was really weird and this year has been equally odd so far.
well I think that is right; I think what everyone was so surpirsed about Toyota is that after everything and the crappy stupidity American's had been dealing with when it came to Chrysler, GM, and Ford pre bailouts and bankruptcy, they couldn't believe that a company that was suppose to be so good as Toyota could make similar mistakes in regards to recalls and covering things up! we didn't put up with it with the Detroit big wigs so why would Toyota think they could get away with it when Detroit didn't?
it just boggles the mind!
The companies who deal with and have purchased Toyota's as fleet cars, can't really put them back on the road until they're fixed. Same goes for the rental car agencies (who all have pulled their Toyotas from their rental fleets). That's a bunch of cars that aren't on the road that Toyota made. I'm sure those will put some sort of dent in resale...especially of renters, and fleet users won't drive them. There's just no way to tell if those cars a fixed or not by the end user.
As has beeen widely reported, sales of new Toyotas is down.....WAY DOWN. That affects demand, across the board, new and used.
I believe when the smoke clears in a couple of months (assuming it will clear, and no other bombshells are announced by toyota), where demand will be for their vehicles.
The losers here, in addition to Toyota employees, are the dealerships that sell their vehicles, and those who own recent Toyotas. They're the ones who'll take a big hit, too.
the automaker's recent bungling over a spate of global recalls appears so out of character.
Those very principles of efficiency and flawlessness that earned Toyota Motor Corp. a near-perfect reputation couldn't prevent problems cropping up in areas outside the factory, areas just as crucial these days in the industry — design development, crisis management and software programming.
Toyota management simply failed to practice what they had long preached the rank-and-file, Anand Sharma, chief executive of TBM Consulting Group, based in Durham, North Carolina, told The Associated Press.
"Toyota managers did not respond to the early signals. That's when they should have identified the root causes," said Sharma, who teaches Toyota production methods to businesses. "If the Toyota brand no longer stands for quality, what does it stand for?"
That last sentence in particular....Toyota's quality has been flushed down the commode. So, what does Toyota/Lexus/Scion stand for now?
I can't answer the question. That's also what will keep people out of Toyota showrooms.
I'm laughing, but only because I agree with it! That's my one hangup about the Fusion...the whole made in Mexico thing. It's not that I don't have confidence in the Mexican factory to build a quality car. I'd just prefer that it be built in the US.
I like the looks of the Taurus, but just wasn't that impressed when I sat in a few at the DC auto show. The car just feels too bulky to me, without really being all that roomy. Now the trunk was decent, but inside it felt a bit claustrophobic. I guess I was just expecting a bigger car, too. I know they call it a full-size, but it feels more intermediate to me.
Do you have any reference to support this statement?
Take a look at the OICA's statistics reported on 6/24/09 on 2008 vehicle productions of major countries:
Japan: 11.6 million
China: 9.3 million
US: 8.7 million
Germany: 6.0 million
...
Mexico: 2.2 million
Canada: 2.1 million
In that year, total vehicles sales in the US was 13.2 million. How can you say the vast majority of American cars were build in Mexico, Canada? Just go check the VIN in a parking lot to see the where they are build.
So to all the Toyota naysayers and Toyota bashers- enjoy !! Here`s the link:
LOL...Nah, that's yesterday's news for data compiled how long along. In reality, this is where things are today:
Credit: Reuters/ Mike Cassese
ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) is considering increased incentives and an extended warranty program to combat consumer concerns about a deepening product safety crisis, a source briefed on still-developing plans said on Sunday.
Toyota, reeling from its largest recall in history, is discussing a range of options with its U.S. dealers to support sales, including $1,000 in addition to the current $1,000 in cash incentives to returning Toyota customers, the source told Reuters.
Toyota's current $1,000 in "loyalty" bonus matches incentives offered by General Motors Co GM.UL, Ford Motor Co (F.N), Chrysler and Hyundai Motor Co (005380.KS) to lure Toyota customers.
Other options Toyota is considering include a free maintenance program -- such as oil changes and regular mile services -- and a new warranty program that at least matches Hyundai's market-leading 10-year, 100,000-mile powertrain warranty, the source said.
Toyota currently offers a five-year powertrain warranty, or 60,000 miles, according to its website. It also offers a three-year basic coverage warranty for "all components other than normal wear and maintenance items."
The source declined to be identified because the plan has not been made public and has yet to be finalized.
Toyota spokeswoman Celeste Migliore said the company reviews many options to remain competitive for each month, but declined to comment on details.
Don Esmond, senior vice president of Toyota Motor Sales, told Reuters in an interview on Saturday that Toyota will consider "competitive incentives" to attract consumers and take steps to reinforce the brand.
Toyota's U.S. sales dropped 16 percent in January to the lowest level in more than a decade, after it suspended sales of top-selling vehicles subject to safety recalls, including the Camry and Corolla sedans.
AutoNation (AN.N) CEO Mike Jackson said on Saturday that by April, Toyota's sales would return to near-normal levels. Jackson said that for the full year, Toyota's U.S. market share will drop 1 percentage point, from 17 percent in 2009.
AutoNation handles about 3 percent of Toyota's U.S. sales and is the biggest dealer group in the country. About 20 percent of its overall sales are Toyota vehicles.
Esmond said Toyota met with its dealer advertising committee this past week to come up with ideas to bring in more customers.
"We're going to need something to reinforce the brand. I think we'll look at anything and everything," he told Reuters. "We are going to provide the appropriate incentives."
The automaker will also pay for the inventory financing costs its dealers have suffered during the suspension of sales, Esmond said.
Kelley Blue Book dropped the resale values of recalled Toyotas for the second time in four days Monday, leaving them as much as 4 percent or $300 to $750 lower than a week ago, depending on the model.
Recalls and a slow response to safety questions have put a dent in the market value of cars long seen as money in the bank for their owners.
As values drop and safety issues keep surfacing, the world's No. 1 carmaker faces increasing risks that even long-steadfast customers will defect.
After all, a key factor in Toyota's rise to the top was its history of quality vehicles with high resale values. If its used cars no longer live up to their formerly lofty reputation, getting buyers in the showroom may be harder and its longtime market strength could be in jeopardy.
The auto research Web site Edmunds.com estimates resale or trade-in values could fall up to 10 percent in the short term.
Already, some dealers are refusing to accept Toyotas for trade while others are paying considerably less for them.
- Bloomberg News
Kelley Blue Book has seen a decline in the transaction prices on the new 2010 Prius in the last week and said the hybrid has been selling for $1,000 to $1,500 less (or closer to dealer invoice value than suggested retail price). Therefore, Kelley Blue Book announced that it will adjust the New Car Blue Book transaction value of the 2010 Toyota Prius down by $1,000 to $1,500 this Friday.
Kelley Blue Book also said it had dropped the used-car values of the Toyota Prius by 1.5 percent. This would apply to 2009 and older models. The adjustment is in response to the announcement Monday of a recall involving 2010 Prius hybrids for brake system problems.
This follows Kelley Blue Book’s announcement last Friday that company analysts initially decreased the used-car values of previously recalled Toyota models by 1 to 3 percent in response to the slowing demand for Toyota models in the marketplace following the pedal entrapment and sticky accelerator recalls.
In news that will likely surprise exactly no one, Irvine-based Kelley Blue Book has quantified in data what has already been a topic around water coolers for weeks: In the wake of Toyota’s recent recalls, interest for the company’s cars and their resale values are heading south.
According the Irvine-based data firm, its latest study reveals that 27 percent of consumers who said they were considering a Toyota prior to the recall now say they no longer are considering the brand for their next vehicle purchase, an increase of six percent from the 21 percent who indicated they had defected from Toyota the prior week (immediately following the initial recall announcement on Jan. 21 affecting 2.3 million cars over “sticky accelerators”).
In addition, the study found, 28 percent of those who said they were considering Toyota’s youth-oriented Scion brand and 23 percent of those who said they were considering its upscale Lexus brand prior to the Toyota recalls, now say they are no longer considering those brands.
“Now nearly half (49 percent) of the car shoppers who have defected from Toyota say they are not sure if they will consider the brand again, even once Toyota’s problems are resolved,” the report adds.
The company, known for its assessment of vehicle values, has also seen the worth of used Toyota’s drop in the wake of the company’s recalls. Here are some findings from KBB’s study:
* All Used Recalled Toyota Models: Used-car values declined 1-3 percent (depending on the model) on February 5, 2010, and will drop an additional 1.5 percent on Friday, February 12, 2010
* New 2010 Prius: New Car Blue Book Value (transaction price) will drop by $1,000 – $1,500 on February 12, 2010
* Used Prius, 2009 and older models: Used-car value dropped 1.5 percent on February 5, 2010, and will drop an additional 1.5 percent on February 12, 2010
* Used Corolla, 2009 and older models: Used-car values dropped 1.5 percent on February 5, 2010, and will drop an additional 1.5 percent on February 12, 2010
BY JEWEL GOPWANI
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER
Many Toyota owners who are trying to sell their cars may have to drop their asking prices.
Resale values for Toyotas that have been recalled fell by as much as 3% this week, or about $450 on a car valued at $15,000, according to Kelley Blue Book. They could fall further next week if Toyota's quality issues stay in the news.
And they likely will.
Next week, Toyota is slated to testify before a congressional committee about the automaker's massive recalls. The federal government also continues to investigate brake issues in the 2010 Toyota Prius hybrid.
Meanwhile, owners of models that Toyota has told its dealers to stop selling, such as the popular Camry, are finding it tough to attract buyers.
Todd Oakley, 46, of Jackson, who is trying to sell a 2007 Camry, said he is waiting for the controversy to blow over.
"We'll still try to sell it," he said. "I'm sure it will take a little extra time."
Selling a recalled Toyota
Tony Schepis sees a challenging task in his future: selling a recalled Toyota.
"I think it's going to be impossible," said Schepis, who owns Schep's Garage in Lansing, where he often sells vehicles for his customers.
A few inquirers of the green 2009 Toyota Corolla stopped calling after Toyota stopped selling and making eight recalled models last week, including the Corolla.
"It's been absolutely quiet," said Schepis. "People have backed right off. I think they're waiting to see what's going to come of this."
check my post their and you'll see that half of GMs products are assembled and built and other countries, about a quarter of Ford's products are, and just a few Chrysler products are! got the information from Kelly Blue Book and Car & Driver so if you'd like to dispute the info I'd suggest writing to them!
anythngbutgm, "Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?" #7263, 27 May 2009 4:31 am
Thanks for pointing out the other forum. By your statement above, much less than half of the American branded cars sold in the US are made outside the US. Thanks for supporting my dispute over the other post's "vast majority built outside the US" statement.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourCar/should-you-buy-a-to- yota.aspx
I took it to my selling dealership (towed) and they inspected everything.....master cylinder, brake lines, pads, everything. They couldn't find the cause and said everything was normal. I did file the event with the NHTSA, at which time the dealership must have got wind of me filing and got the regional rep involved. They took the truck back (with less than 100 miles on the odo). Don't know if it's true, but the dealer's service manager said they were sending it back to the factory to see what might have gone wrong.
I've had troubles with other makes before, too (namely a Cadillac) which was bought back as a lemon. Long story that has no place here since this is a Toyota thread.
Bottom line, Toyota's haven't been any more, or less, reliable than any other brand I've owned. Truth is, there's nothing they offer in their lineup that interests me now, anyway. Maybe a Scion for my son, but now, I won't entertain that notion given what's happened with Toyota the last few months.
What would I consider instead? Again for my son, maybe a Fusion. Perhaps an Altima. He has a Hyndai Elantra now, which has been sterling for the 100K miles he's put on it. Maybe another Hyundai.
And this will be temporary,for say 3 or 4 months .
But if Toyota is really planning the 10yr/100k powertrain warr and then free maintenance program like BMW with oil changes and other maintenance---then it can be a real game changer in the mainstream auto market!! Hope Toyota implements this free maintenance program !! :shades:
I think people will wait until the 2011 models come out to see how Toyota has addressed their quality and safety problems with the new models. Even with the new models, those have been finalized for awhile. So, I don't know how much Toyota can change this late in the game.
So, we'll see what the message is moving forward. This year is shot for them. Maybe 2011, too.
Still, '07s-'10s will carry the stigma no matter what Toyota does in the future.
Now a lot of wiggle room to improve things now or in the foreseeable future to do private sales and/or trade-ins until Toyota does some substantial and recognizable redesign. It wouldn't hurt for them to be aggressive with extended warranties (which it looks like they might do) and substantial rebates (which hurts resale value, even more). They have to find a way to move current inventory, however. Those are the only two ways I can see to get people in their showrooms right now.
By the way, is there going to be a police package of the Taurus?
I find it hilarious that some Americans think they can sue Toyota for supposed "lost" resale value. It was always worth what it can sell for, and it still is. As someone so eloquently stated before, this would be like GM owners suing oil companies for rising gas prices which led to supposed "lost" resale value in trucks and SUVS.
However, suing oil companies for reduced resale due to market conditions, which owners of trucks from GM, Ford, Chryco, Nissan, Toyota, or any other company that makes heavy, V8 powered trucks over issues that are out of the car company's control is quite different. Toyota is being sued for safety issues. Those are something that are directly related to the manufacturer and their vehicles being worth less.
They may be successful based on that. They may be not. But, it seems some law firm feels they may have merit. I'm not a lawyer. But, if my odds of failure of taking on a case is higher than my odds of success, I wouldn't put out the time, nor the money to bring the suit to the steps of the courst system. These claims are taken on a contingency basis. If the lawfirm doesn't win it (or at least an out of court settelment), they get nothing for their efforts.
I've seen some reports stating that the auction houses won't even put Toyotas up for auction. That's not good. To those auction houses, the Toyotas aren't worth anything, regardless of the reason.
But, you are right. They are worth what they're worth, even if that's not much.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I hope this isn't a harbinger of cars to come. I like bucket seats, consoles, and floor shifts, but please make the console low and narrow enough that I can climb over it and exit the car from the opposite side if I so choose! And I'd really appreciate better outward visibility.
Don't hold your breath. The Yaris is about all they can legally sell. I imagine they are dealing tough on them right now. A 2009 Corolla should go for pennies on the dollar.
At least the Yaris is cheap & reliable .......... but look at page 53 of the March 2010 issue of Consumer Reports - essentially America's bible for car buying - and note that of the 42 "small cars" rated, only the Dodge Caliber and Chevy Cobalt & Aveo rank worse than theYaris. Look at the left hand corner of the page for the explanation as to why it is specifically NOT recommended.
I live in the greater Kansas City area ......... and don't believe I have ever seen one on the road,
You sure won't have to worry about sudden unintended acceleration .......... since the thing doesn't even have enough power to produce even INTENDED acceleration!!.
The first step for Toyota to improve their image is to drop the silly..."floormats and accelerator pedals are causing all the problems". When in reality, there's just too much evidence from experts stating that it's most probably the code causing both braking and UA issues.
I think it's yet another attempt by Toyota (this time, the very upper end of their management) to try to minimize the problems
Until they give a full account, people will continue to be leery of their vehicles. And owners, especially those who aren't keeping up with this debacle, don't know that the root cause of potential safety problems, may or may not have the correct fix.
Until Toyota quits trying to conceal their multitude of problems, the issues are going to continue to bite them in their posteriors. And, whatever recovery they are trying to enact, will be delayed.
I check many UK and European sites and they are saying just this.