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Comments
I will have to say that Kia has come a long way since then. They are a real bargain as a used car, but you will get clobbered by depreciation if you buy a new one.
The steering is the worst one. I can not feel the center; it feels like a lot free play you can turn the steering wheel left and right without actually turning the car; and you can feel a lot resistance as if the power steering assistant does not kick in. But once you turn it more than 30 degrees, all of a sudden it becomes very light. That's scary. A good steering control like the BMW feels just opposite; light in center and gradually harder off center to prevent you lose control of the car
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
First of all, a brake override could have been a life saver as in the case of the CHP officer crashing on the highway at more than 100 mph after his family member called for help reporting a stuck accelerator.
However, a brake override is not a sure guarantee to prevent death and injures to pedestrians in parking lots due to unintended acceleration because the reaction time to react to sudden acceleration in order to prevent hitting pedestrians and shops is much shorter due to the proximity of potential dangers ahead.
Read the complaint of a 2010 Camry owner ODI # 10293611 to see my point.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/
Moreover, some 2010 Camry owners complained that the car rolled back facing up slope as if it was in neutral when they took the foot off the brake to go to the gas pedal. Complaints on NHTSA website related to 2010 Camry roll back easily on slope can be found in complaints ODI # 10283276, 10310532,10310260, 10306566.
If there is a vehicle stopping close behind your vehicle with the above problem on a steep ramp going up while you have your right foot on the brake, the only way to ensure not hitting the vehicle behind is to carefully shift from using your right foot on the brake to using your left foot while pressing on the brake all the time, then gently step on the gas with your right foot while your left foot gently release pressure on the brake to let the car move forward. Such a maneuver would not be possible if a brake override is to be installed in future Toyotas.
Sure I would prefer that Toyota install brake override in their vehicles plagued by unintended acceleration. It would help to alleviate the problem but it is far from being a fix. Being a fix should mean the problem of unintended acceleration is solved, not just being overridden. Toyota must find out the cause of unintended acceleration not related to floor mat and sticky pedal as reported by some Toyota owners and it must solve the problem of 2010 Camry rolling back easily on idle speed when facing up slope should Toyota decides to put brake override in future productions.
Please read my post 5037 and 5041 in the link below to see the scope of the problem of unintended acceleration with the 2010 Camry.
barronc, "2007 Toyota Camry Problems and Repairs" #5022, 13 Feb 2010 7:53 am
Toyota screwed all of them. First the electronics acceleration control of the Camry, then the electronics braking of the Prius, now the electronics steering of the Corolla. These Toyota designs took away any driving fun. Most importantly, without a robust software design and a mechanical backup, they put the people's life in danger.
Go back to the basic, Toyota.
For example, when all of the complaints came to light, some said to shut down the car. OK....that's all well and good, if you're not in a panic mode (which you will be if you're hurtling down the road at 60-70-100 MPH).
Then there's the case where many Toyota/Lexus vehicles have push button start. In those cars, Toyota deems it necessary to push the start/stop button for 3 secs before the engine shuts down. At 60 MPH, you're traveling at 88 feet/sec. That's 264 feet before the engine shuts down. Estimate another 150 feet to bring the car to a total halt after shutting down the engine by slamming on the brakes. You've traveled the length of a football field, hoping you can steer around whatever traffic or road obstacles you're bound to encounter.
Not well engineered or thought out by Toyota. But, as we've seen, this is becoming the rule as opposed to the exception by Toyota....whether it's their braking systems, steering systems, drive shafts, engine sludge, acceleration systems...and the list goes on and on. They've clearly cut engineering cycles and real world testing so much that these problems are becoming all too prevalent.
> putting some heat on another auto manufacturer.
Depends on what the problems are about the speed control. Do they not work? Do they wander?
Or do they go out of control with unintended acceleration like toyota's?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Wonder if Toyota designed the frame that rusted out on my buddies F-250 that spent it's life on Cape Cod before literally splitting in half while making a dump run... :confuse:
Where did this info come from?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Or do they go out of control with unintended acceleration like toyota's?
I would assume by the web address of the link:
http://www.safetyresearch.net/Library/SUAComplaints.pdf
that SUA = "Sudden Unintended Acceleration".
I think that is what all the uproar is about, isn't it?
Until my Camry takes off on its on, it is my belief that the SUA is driver error. Has anyone on this forum reported SUA?
I do absolutely believe that that there have been instances of pedals sticking on all weather mats (the bottom of the pedal hangs on the top of the mat) and instances of the CTS pedals actually sticking on their own. Does this equal SUA? Maybe...but in my opinion, if one is aware of what their car is doing, they should realize that the engine is racing when it shouldn't be. What are we expecting? Cars that make all the decisions for us? Not in my lifetime.
My 2010 Camry has the gated shifter, but drive and neutral are in line. Just push the shifter straight up from drive to neutral.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/02/18/business/business-uk-toyota-britain.ht- ml
Then there's this from Congressman E. Towns who sums the situation up pretty well...
"Toyota has recalled millions of its vehicles and even halted production. In addition, there are reports that this problem may have been the direct cause of serious injury and even death.
"There appears to be growing public confusion regarding which vehicles may be affected and how people should respond. In short, the public is unsure as to what exactly the problem is, whether it is safe to drive their cars or what they should do about it," the congressman said. "To help clarify this situation, I am inviting you to testify."
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota19-2010feb19,0,503484.story
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I will look around later and see if I can find such a place on the internet. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If you need to stop immediately to avoid a collision, shift the gear to neutral N with your foot hard on the brake. Do NOT pump the brake.
If you need to coast to a stop on the side of the road and there is no immediate danger of hitting anything ahead, put the emergency flasher on and then shift the gear to neutral with your foot controlling the brake.
If you do not have enough momentum to move to the shoulder of a freeway, you should step hard on the brake and shift to drive D momentarily. Once you have enough momentum to move to the shoulder, shift back to neutral with your foot controlling the brake.
Once you have stopped at a safe location in neutral and with your foot hard on the brake, you must turn off the engine before you shift to park P because the gear in neutral has to go through reverse R with an engine running at very high rpm before reaching the park position. The vehicle may jerk backwards suddenly if you don't turn off the engine before shifting to park.
For explanation of why you should not turn off the engine immediately while experience a stuck gas pedal or throttle on the road, please watch the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT07_JbnKWQ&feature=related
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/toyota-blamed-for-japan%E2%80%99s-falling-gdp-l- oss-to-china/
Dimitrios Biller, who headed a corporate legal team that defended Toyota in rollover-accident lawsuits, took some 6,000 internal documents with him when he left Toyota in 2007, and has since sued the automaker under U.S. racketeering laws. He has said the documents support his allegations that the company systematically hid or destroyed legal evidence that would have led to costly trials in the United States.
The most surprising thing about Congress is that some of them actually manage to find their way to work each day !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Mr Toyoda isn't doing himself, or his company, any favors by ducking out of a Congressional Q&A. If anything, it would be an opportunity for him to suck it up, state Toyota's case, have it on the record, and move on. If not, this is just going to linger, and linger, and linger some more.
It's a pretty safe bet that Toyota is already going to be looking at heavy fines, in this country, and probably others. What does Mr. Toyoda have to lose at this point? It can't get any worse, can it? Or, maybe it can. And, that's the reason he's not welcoming Congress' invitation.
I will look around later and see if I can find such a place on the internet."
Is this the place you are looking for?
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/
Just choose VEHICLE, 2010, TOYOTA, CAMRY and Select Component, then click on Get Summary.
Wow, 54 complaints and lots of them about uninteded acceleration.
Wonder why so many Toyota 2010 Camry owners would reveal their Vehicle Identification Number when they "post wild speculation and make unfounded allegations " on the internet against their own new Carmy knowing that bad mouthing their 2010 Camry with VIN disclosed would make it depreciate in resale value.
Now choose VEHICLE, 2010, HONDA, ACCORD and Select Component, then click on Get Summary.
Oh, only three complaints and none about unintended acceleration.
I just can't figure out why all the "hysterical and paranoid " customers had decided to buy Toyota instead of Honda.
Were these Toyota/Lexus customers hysterical and paranoid too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MyxGUUtE8A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZWPItpu2bM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYWqqgr7Wcg
I personally think this whole fiasco is a result of too many electronic gadgets taking away the control of our vehicles. Many cars you cannot decide to spin your tires to get going on slick surfaces. I have never had a problem without ABS, ESC, PQR and XYZ. Straight steering linkage, regular hydraulic brakes and a mechanical throttle worked fine for most of my driving career. The numb steering, poor braking and erratic throttle response in many of the vehicles currently under recall, is not progress in my opinion.
I have asked that very question several times and did not get a reasonable response. If you like the car and it is not giving you any problems why would you expose yourself to possible interrogation by the NHTSA for making false claims? If you discount the ones that have had accidents where they have a motive, you should get legitimate complaints. I believe there have been 1000s of cases of UA and only a couple 1000 got reported. Or they reported to their dealer and was arrogantly told there was nothing wrong.
I think we pay for cars and drivers for many of them to be transported to the capital buildings.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Technology must move forward.
I'd rather not go back to lapbelts, having no air bags, etc.
Anyone who regrets the advance of technology only need to go to a hospital and see how advanced medical technology is helping keep people alive who 30 years ago would be dead.
Can't stick our head in a hole and say, "stop making cars more advanced."
P.S. I know the good comeback is "look what all the ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY did for all the people dead from SUA !" Yes, but that was caused by human programming mistakes, not by failed technology.
Look how many lives have been saved by airbags and ABS - it's immeasurable.
We are talking about vehicle control being taken from the driver and given to a computer to decide, if you should go faster or slower. Whether you should get to use your brakes on that new Prius. Or steering your new Corolla.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Mercedes and others have the "read end crash avoidance" feature and the autoparking features.
Get used to it. Mistakes might be made in the programming every now and again, but it will eventually get perfected like other technologies have.
The Audi phenomena was a big, big, deal back then. Can you imagine how much worse it would have been for Audi if the internet had been around then? None of us know what the problem is here. I see no need to rush to judgment until we have more facts.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
that didn't take long.
I'll bet he wishes they would have given this job to someone that had worked their way up through the ranks. He could be jet setting and living the life of privilege, and not be humiliated by all these problems.
I have a 2007 Nissan Santra which is very reliable in speed contol even though it also uses DBW for throttle control.
Edmunds, when it did its analysis, found many complaints to be duplicated or flat out unbelievable, don't forget.
I don't say this to defend Toyota as I have certainly bought my last new Toyota (and not because of this, as we have already discussed), but because I would like to know what really is going on with these cars, and now with all this hysteria around it I'm sure we will never know.
Before the congressional hearings were announced I was hoping some engineering analyst would have that "ah-ha moment" and tell us what was wrong. With Congress involved, we will certainly get no resolution.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Reading through posts for all kinds of cars on NHSTA site, some are poorly worded because of lack of articulate English on the part of the posters, but probably valid. Some are just Kooky and aren't really problems for the NHSTA site to handle. But reading ones about unintended acceleration will leave many that can't be tossed and have validity.
>engineering analyst...tell us what is wrong
I keep feeling they already know.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I read all of the problems up until mid September and learned a great deal. There are other sites that are helpful too. I truly feel your frustration and I had to share our experience. My wifes 2005 Camry LE died and when she restarted it the engine RPM would go up and down between 2K and 3K and when she pressed on the gas it would either die or do nothing (we discovered later that the car has a limp-home-mode...and it does work well) at least it got her to the local auto parts place and they were nice enough to run a quick diagnostic and it came up with a P2112 and something else. Oh..the other thing it also did was when she pressed the gas pedal to the floor it did absolutely nothing except die or continue to idle low and high. Sorry....P2112 indicates the TAC (throttle actuator control) was not working and that it was in fact "stuck closed"...this is the brass butterfly inside the throttle body. There is another code that indicates it is "stuck open) either way its the same fix. Why Toyota must attach this plastic part (TAC) permanently to the throttle body is a puzzle to me, but thats another story. So I begin googling like a mad man and discovered that like many of you got the bad news. The part (throttle body with the TAC attached) was $917.00 and the labor was about $350.00. This is just not right on a car with only 57K miles...I later discovered on some site that 50K miles is the average mileage these things peter out.
From a competing forum. So why hasn't this issue been talked about on the media news? This is exactly the part that was replaced in the Camry that was brought into the dealer with WOT. I think it is more of the cover up by Toyota.
It was an Avalon, not a Camry.
Why was Mr. Garrity driving that same car with the ABC reporter with him? If he really experienced what he says, he's kinda stupid to still be driving that car.
Brings back memories of the exploding gas tanks in the Chevy trucks. CBS staged that one and ended up having to apologize to General Motors.
Unlike the CBS staged explosion on the Chevy PU, The Toyota dealer backed up the WOT story.
Now, now. Let's not get personal.
That's really insulting to blame the driver for dangerous safety problems a car exhibits.
>It was an Avalon, not a Camry.
The Avalon is based on the previous Camry's chassis and parts.
Avalon, Camry, Camry ES350--all the same.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I agree, you did say the driver was stupid for driving a Toyota that displayed erratic behavior. Would you extend that to all Toyota drivers that have cars under the recall? Supposedly the Toyota dealer replaced the faulty parts. So I had to assume you do not believe that is enough to make the car safe to drive.
I have personally been the victim of Toyota dealer arrogance. When you have thousands of dollars tied up in Denso doo dads that do not work properly, it does not make one happy. And then to have some hack service manager say it all tests out fine, is rubbing salt into the wound. So I have more compassion for the customers than I do for Toyota. The only people I feel for are the workers in the Toyota factories that are impacted negatively by Toyota's lies and arrogance.
PS
And the millions that have bought from Toyota only to find their cars could be unsafe.
We can vote with our wallets for the vehicles which are not designed to cede more and more driver control to electronics/software.
for example: we can consider new vehicles only if they have manual transmissions.