By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
For Noel Christian Riddell, a 10-year veteran skilled-trades worker, things started out rosy at the plant. But the veteran workers on the shop floor have been ignored while Toyota hires low-wage temporary workers who are long shots to ever win permanent employment with benefits.
"We executed model change activities faster than any other manufacturer. I truly felt my contributions played a role in the company's success," Riddell said. "But something happened. After only a few years, training ceased. Suddenly I had no sick days. My raises became smaller. My benefits were cut. My group's manpower was slashed. And the number of temporary employees steadily grew."
So, Toyota gets in on the Corporate welfare.
"I believe that as a company succeeds, the employees should also succeed," said Tim Unger, an 18-year veteran worker. Unger and other workers who spoke at the Hunter Presbyterian Church said they see a need for a contract with the giant automaker, which has received $371 million in state and local government tax subsidies since 1986.
Unger said he's noticed that some longtime workers have "disappeared" from the plant - victims of Toyota's quest for improved efficiency.
I personally would skip the extended warranty. I have both a 2004 LE and a 2005 XLE (both 4 cylinders). The older one has 43K miles and the newer one has 19.5K miles. They've both been solid, very reliable cars.
I also agree that you should think about a shorter financing term, maybe 4 years at most. Do you belong to a credit union that can offer a better rate than the dealer?
Everything I've seen about Japanese factories in America is positive as far as the workers and communities are concerned. I didn't see many communities fighting to keep those jobs out. I assume they're safe and well run, pay fair wages, and offer good benefits. They may not offer guaranteed lifetime employment or defined benefit plans, but then again, that's what got Detroit in trouble to begin with.
Toyota is the very least of this countries worries.
In the CPA field, my education, it was 'Up or Out'. If you weren't obvious Partner material by the end of 2 or 3 years you were expected to leave of your own accord before you were let go. Wave upon wave of new graduates came in each year as cannon fodder. They then spent two years of the most grinding grunt work - 100 hrs a week with no days off for 3 months during the tax season - for barely a minimum salary.
When RCA hired me and took me to Alaska in 1970, they invited the Teamsters Union in. They did not want to deal with the individual. Unions can work for both craft and management.
Sales is different than factory work. If you don't sell you don't eat. My CPA makes a ton of money so I am not sure why you left that field. Your comparisons are not valid.
Most union contracts have a trial period. Most managers are too stupid to know who is doing a good job and who isn't. In 45 years in communications I had two supervisors that knew what the job entailed. The rest were worthless college grads that just took up space at a desk.
That was my education.. I never went into accounting. I went to work for a large, now HUGE, steel company in sales. That was as you say sell or starve.
The ridglines sales are dropping like a rock !!!!!!!!!
http://www.aicautosite.com
Not to mention the complaints and issues these "trucks"
are having from posts at ridgelineownersclub.com :lemon:
your 97 camry............
Refresh my memory..........Thanks
Traded it for $2500 toward a 2000 Camry. No issues on that vehicle and traded that $9000 toward the 2005 Prius. No issues on that either after 15 months and 41000 miles.
Your point?
On Saturday, we went and look @ a possible Ford Focus buy, since they were 3K off msrp(until end of April 2nd, today).
Guy looked up the info on our car, and said he would give us 11,109 for our Scion tC.
This was great news, as we have 75,409 miles on it in 31 months of ownership.
We owe a little over 12,000. We would have only been upside down by 900 dollars. If not for us having to take a 66 month loan in 04,or the 75K+ mileage, we would have Made Money! We would have made 1,100 -1,300 dollars :surprise: !!!!!!!!!!!
Spouse said she'll just keep it until it dies.
We did not get the Focus.
We could have, but decided against it.
Too bad my 04 Sonata GLS V6 is not as high up in the trade-in/resale value!
(No more Hyundai's for us. Not due to reliability, but sorry resale. Got to wait until 6 months before pay off to trade-in, it appears, or get burned).
Take Care/Not Offense
Plus any kind of pullout would kill their chances at WORLD DOMINATION.
LOL, OK Dr. Evil, If Toyota is out for "World Domination" then what has GM been basking in for the umpteenth decade? Up until this year, they (GM) have been the rulers of the world market in sales and now little Toyota from 40 years ago has slowly but steadily built themselves up to be a near threat to GM's "DOMINANCE".
I think the whole "Evil" Toyota thing with them all of a sudden becoming some dictating force in the world market is a bit ridiculous. Especially given that Toyota is a long way from toppling the US market, which I highly doubt will ever happen.
GM world domination - GOOD
Toyota world domination - BAD
Simple as that.
Toyota world domination - BAD
From a working man's perspective I think that is about it. What do you hear about the long term prospects for a Toyota factory worker? Does it compare to the 100s of 1000s that have worked 40 plus years at GM then retired with a living wage? I don't think so. Have the politicians done well in the towns that Toyota builds their empire? I imagine they have. Big difference in my mind.
If Toyota treats their US workers equal to the treatment of a GM or Ford worker then I could care less if they become number ONE. I don't think they are close to doing that.
Right now in the Corporate world Toyota is still a small fish. They are not even in a class with Microsoft. They have a looooong way to catch Exxon or WalMart. The auto business is not what it was when GM was the largest corporation in the World.
It's apparent that many posters with issues make their feelings known quite emphatically.....and sometimes more so!!
Nevertheless...it's what forums are, and human nature tells us not everyone will hold the same view on any issue. So disparity can be expected.
However, what often (perhaps inevitably??) develops is that objectivity is displaced by confrontation, and forums tend to morph into "them against us" situations.
Sometimes this phenomenon takes a bizarre turn, as you note in your comments about "evil empire" scenarios by another....examples...(1)claims alledging "deplorable" working conditions at Toyo's Kentucky operation; (2 Toyo's failure validated by UAW organizing campaign; (3) Toyo's downfall wouldn't happen if Toyo treated employees better; (4) Toyo threatening "world domination"; and (5) condemning Toyo for workplace practices common to big three plants, and so on.
I guess there has to be room for everybody here, but when I see such wildly speculative "doom and gloom" commentary, I just shake my head and wonder how anyone can get so far from reality.
It's not surprising then that they would be quoted in the UAW release to Yahoo.
Sooner or later the word "pension" would be part of the past and you wouldn't find that anywhere in the corporate world. As matter of fact, Lockheed Martin has ended the pension program for all new employees about just 3 or 4 months ago. I am a recent neophyte in a large company (around 130K employees) and although we still have pension program I wouldn't be surprised to see it vanish one day. The best thing to do is to take all the benefit one can in the 401K program.
lifetime loyal employee or "strong and trusting employee-employer relationship" is also the thing of the past. One must show his/her capability to obtain a job. If the next person is better than you then prepare to get cut in the next round of lay-off. If that's the case for the engineers or the "desk jockeys" (since they DON'T have an union) then why isn't that the case for the floor workers as well?
I have no reason to believe this one will be any different.
However, like Yogi said: "It ain't over till it's over" and Toyo operations are held up to be pretty user friendly....and have historically resisted organizing campaigns in the past.
We'll see what we'll see.
Gone are the days of "womb to tomb" pensions/benefits.
As in most things too good to be true (or everlasting!), all the take for granted entitlements from the past are proving to be too costly in a competitive world economy.
Examples--benefit plans are shrinking and in many cases becoming employee contributary, fully paid defined benefit pension plans are disappearing...the big three now finds itself with far more pensioners than employees (who's going to pay for that phenomenon??)...and so on.
North American industry..Toyo plants among others...can't continue to pay huge costs for benefits/pensions/time not worked/health care and all the other gold goose items from the past and remain competitive.
Sorry to say....things are a'changing folks!(Whether we like it or not!!)
This reminds me of a story I heard recently..please, no offence intended, just try and see the humor in it:
A Japanese company (Toyota ) and an American company (Chrysler)
decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River . Both teams practiced
long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.
On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the
reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior
management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.
Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person
steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person
rowing.
Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a
consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second
opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the
boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent
another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was
totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering
superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.
They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1
person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the
"NOTSO/SMRT system", with meetings, dinners and free pens
for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and
other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.
The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor
performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and
cancelled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was
distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing
team was outsourced to India.
The End.
The only real problem is most folks in the slow boat are STILL going ..... WHAT.... we still don't get it!!???
Tell us about the 07 camrys transmission and squeek and
rattle issues. Noticed any at your dealer?
Just wondering about 210s previous posts of having such
troublefree camrys...............
Yet noting his postings on the camry threads about having
engine problems................
This is supposed to be about Toyota in 2007, and not about my particular 1997 Camry. And your posts have been hardly objective.
Anyway, for the details, see this. But I kept that car for 111K miles, and overall it was the most reliable car that I had owned for that length of time and mileage, going back to 1975 (see my profile). It shows you the value of a good warranty, one that both the manufacturer and dealer will honor. Note also the car was replaced only to get side airbags in the 2004 model, not because it had problems.
Here's what it looked like just before I sold it.
Any chance you could ease up a little?
Thanks.
Just was wondering because i noted the posts of such
"troublefree" cars that other members own/owned but yet
note posts elsewhere that they indeed had problems with
them............
Anyhoo since a few of you are now new "board police"
and whining I am not posting about 07 camry.
Perhaps you should "police" the other 07 camry problems
board and remind the member thats posting about their
99 (and others) camry issues on the WRONG board............ :P
Firing someone for being pro UAW would also be illegal? Right. That would be the same as finding ways to dismiss those who get older and replace them with younger employees--which is the way Toyota will avoid the pension/healthcare increase for an odler worker population as well as healthcare for retirees. That's what I predicted would start happening.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Of course, once said employees are fired, they're going to blame the company for their woes, not themselves.
Pat, Sedans Host
Do you know they leaked an internal document? IMO you're jumping to conclusions as to their dismissal. That could happen in many workplaces. Or charges of improper behavior could be made up by managers as a reason to dismiss someone the management or the manager wanted removed.
I watched in my workplace as a new manager tried to remove some people for no reason. In one case the new manager moved a person to a lesser job and put a friend whom the new manager had socially met who was the wife of someone "important" or at least visible in the community in that job.
So both do happen.
I drove past the Toyota plant in question on the way to the Smokies on Sunday. For the first time I knew where to look and could see the top of the building from I75. The plant is close to Lexington and to Louisville where Ford plants are UAW.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In the scheme of things, the Euro name plates despite a lot of plusses are generally rated behind even American cars in many different measures.
I've never looked into the specific details because the situation has never arisen, but I do know that some have just been asked to leave - on the spot.
I can't imagine how the UAW or anyone else could operate in such states but they are welcome to try.
I agree if someone does something against the known rules then they can be let go.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I actually agree about valve stem oils seals deteriorating not being a major flaw. All cars have occasional flaws. The warranty still being in effect made that even nicer for 210delray in this case. But I think I would accept that on my own brand of car as not major.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If I had to pay, I would not have been happy. But the warranty covered it, I didn't have to fight the dealer (who didn't sell me the car), and the car was repaired in a day or two.
But I did report it as a problem on my CR survey the following year!
As for the temp workers I agree bad move on Toyota's part because they wanted to avoid getting the Kentucky plant unionized in the first place.
As for workers leaving the Toyota plant like that worker said forget it these days people work at a place for 3 years and than leave there is no people working 25 years at a company anymore because those days are long over.
Actually GM, Ford, were very profitable in the late 90's with SUV sales and Chrysler was red hot in the late 90's making more profit on each vehicle sold more than GM or Ford did. Chrysler has struggled mightily since the merger with Mercedes while Ford has had problems with the product itself and recalls(the Focus recalls on the Ford Focus in the early 00's, the decling SUV market, Firestone fiasco, letting the Tarus singlehandidly go into oblivion, and lastky the bland and underpowered 500 sedan.) GM meanwhile has struggled because of the decline of the SUV market which they used to relie on for most of their sales but GM looks to be on the rise again.
In conclusion, the Domestic 2.5 have had other problems in the last decade besides dealing with the UAW.
And I agree with one of the posters if Toyota moved all their plants to Japan they would get a huge backlash from the American public. Besides the Michigan government wants to lower the yen so if Toyota moved all their stuff back to Japan the price of Toyota's for the Us market would raise by alot.
I must be a dinosaur -- 27 years and counting at the same employer!
Also; people do stay at employers for ever when there is a reason to - if they know the employer will outsouce their jobs at the drop of a hat then they have to cover themselves and their families and take better positions as they occur. The break in loyalty occurred at the management level, not at the worker level. I have been at my employer for 17 years and I know many who have been here for 30+ years.
Also; firing someone for being pro union at a non union work place is a basic MO for most companies. Proving ones claim is very difficult, takes several years, is very expensive, end even if you win the remedy does little if anything to deter the employer from doing it again.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2007040316856
Prius with a HUGE month, and Rav4, Camry, and Lexus LS put it down as well.
Tacoma looks like it will reach 200k this year. And Prius has an outside chance as well. :surprise:
Tundra did alright, but Toyota wants to see 15k a month from now on. With CrewMax ads and trucks starting to hit, it is easily doable. We'll see.
DrFill