Toyota on the mend?

punkr77

Yeah, my wife and I looked at the FJ to replace her car. It had by far the worst visability I've ever seen in a car. Lane changing was a very scary experience. Other than that, unless I really needed offroad capability (and 99% of SUV buyers don't) I'd go elsewhere in a heartbeat. I have a feeling there'll be quite a few good deals on FJs as people who bought based on the looks trade them back after trying to live with one for a while. The interior was pretty stripped and stark. If I was going the FJ's direction, I'd get a Wrangler instead. At least it'll let you go hardtop, soft stop, bikini top, or topless, all with one vehicle.

gagrice

I think FJ ownership will be a love/hate relationship. It still is only selling a fraction of what the 4Runner sells in a slump. I think it is premature to change the 4Ruuner.

Question is the Lexus GX just a fancy 4Runner?

210delray

Answer to your last question: yes, but it comes only with a V8 and 4-wheel drive. And it's a lot heavier than even the V8 4Runner.

gagrice

Thank You,
I may have to test drive one then.

paisan

Saw the new LC/LX56 at the NYIAS. Not bad but I can't even think of how much they are charging for it.

Also compared the FJ to a Wrangler/Wrangler Unlimited and the Wrangler wins in terms of offroad and on-road anyday and I dislike both Toyota and Jeep equally!

Tundra was ho-hum, nothing special in it for me as a truck buyer. They do have a gimicky rear camera for hooking up your trailer, they are definitely catering to the "noob" towing person as most folks who tow regularly can get aligned fairly quickly w/o a camera.

-mike

gagrice

If Toyota was on the ball they would have brought these models to the USA instead of that foo foo FJ toy. Toyota does build good vehicles. Just not for US consumers.

nippononly

I dunno.......aren't those just Prado variants? Which is essentially what the current 4Runner and Tacoma are. So we already have 2 versions of those trucks, we just don't get the diesel engines they have, nor are our models quite as stripped as those (at least, not our 4Runner trims).

gagrice

I do not know. They don't look alike. The 4Runner is all foo foo and plastic instead of steel bumpers and chrome. The diesel option is what I would have to have.

http://www.lc70.toyota.com.au/toyota/vehicle/Content/0,4664,4109_1612,00.html

nippononly

they are. However, Toyota NA never seems to want the really stripped-down work versions of Toyota's trucks that other countries get.

The Prado gets a good diesel, the one you linked. I would love to see a 50-state version come here for the Tundra and Tacoma. When will it happen? Rumors are on again, off again.

louiswei

about Lexus goes over the magical $100,000 mark with the $104K LS600hL? Although I think this car is incredible which offers V12-like performance (760i) with a V8 hybrid. I am not sure about whether this is a good move by Toyota/Lexus or not.

Pretty soon we'll see another Lexus join the "over-100-grand club" with the upcoming LF-A. Rumor has it that it will be priced somewhere around $160K. :surprise:

drfill

And with the extra power, AWD, and extra standard features, should be fine.

The LF-A was beautiful in person (the IF-S, not so much, but is better looking than it is in pictures), and, from looks alone, looks like 160k to me.

I want a stick in sumpin', doh! :mad:

Lexus doesn't want to cement an image as a budget Mercedes, so going upmarket is the right move.

For the Audis and Cadillacs of the world, maybe not, but Lexus has earned the right to ascend.

DrFill

nippononly

S600 sales there are each year? Not many, I can tell you. Granted, it costs about $35K more than the LS600HL, but the point is, there aren't many sales at this end of the market each year, and Lexus knows that. As long as they sell a few (and I am sure they will sell a few, as the new LS460 has been so popular), it will be fine. It is Lexus' halo model, and will serve that role most effectively even after the LF-A makes it to market. Trust me, the marketplace is going to view the LF-A as an oddball in the Lexus line-up - THAT is the one that is going to tank, I am afraid.

What I wonder is if this will progress to its logical conclusion: will there eventually be an "L-tune" LS600, comparable to the S65 AMG? Can Toyota pull that off? Their sport credentials are threadbare from age and mothballed from lack of use...

louiswei

will there eventually be an "L-tune" LS600, comparable to the S65 AMG?

You meant the "F-tune" LS600h, right?

I personally hope Lexus won't go with that route. In the foreseeable future I would like to see only 3 -F cars and they are the IS-F, GS-F and LF-A. If Lexus can establish itself as a reputable manufacture in the factory tuner world then it makes more sense for the LS-F.

The LF-A won't be as much of an oddball alongside with the other -F cars. I think as a halo car for Lexus it should do just fine.

nippononly

Possibly, if the other -F cars are popular, the LF-A will serve as a halo for them specifically. It would be nice to see Lexus dealers establish a separate area of the showroom for the -F models, they will be so different from anything at Lexus ever before.

geo9

Read this:
http://www.fomoconews.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1854#post1854

What ya think???????????

larsb

written by a buncha Ford lovers who have a reason to hope the Tundra fails.

All that stuff is just water under the bridge. You think the GM and Ford rollouts of their first "major" trucks went like a Swiss Watch?

Every new product launch has glitches, when billions of dollars are involved.

hypnosis44

I have to completely agree. Although I do prefer US trucks to the Japanese, the piece about the Tundra is "cherry picked" and massaged beyond belief. The Tundra will emerge as a serious challenger to Ford and GM and what is left of Dodge.

gagrice

Every new product launch has glitches, when billions of dollars are involved.

The Tundra is hardly new. It is in its 8th year here. It has not and will not be competition for GM & Ford truck sales. It is just too ugly. Makes a Dodge look decent. Like all things Toyota, it is overpriced and over-rated. And I have driven a 2004 Tundra V8 a quite a bit. It belongs to a friend who likes it. It is so noisy going down the Highway you cannot carry on a conversation. When he rides in my GMC he always comments on how quiet it is.

hypnosis44

Why would an old Tundra be compared to a new one with which it shares little? We would not compare an old Impala to a new one!

larsb

Gary, I was born at night, but not LAST night ;

Of course I know the Tundra is not "new"

But *THIS TUNDRA* as a full-size competitor to the large Ford/Chevy/Dodge trucks IS ABSOLUTELY ALL NEW.

The fact that Toyota is going full bore after a piece of this LUCRATIVE market is BRAND NEW.

And this is not the 2004 Tundra. It's the ALL NEW Tundra.

gagrice

I guess we sit back and wait for the sales results on the NEW uglier Tundra.

ruking1

Ford and GM will be ahead of the game, if and when they come out with that diesel pick up truck 150/1500 size.

If they beat the EPA on the Tundra, WOW!

gagrice

I can guarantee the automaker that brings a 1/2 ton PU with a workhorse diesel to market will kill the rest. Not some fire breathing monster. An honest 30+ MPG 1/2 ton will be in short supply. When I bought my GMC hybrid I really wanted the Duramax 3/4 ton. The two local dealers were not cutting the deals like they were on the gassers.

PS
The Tundra is a gas guzzler. The popular one is rated 13/17 on the new EPA rating chart.

ruking1

I would agree. The PU truck has been the convenient whipping post of the environmentalists for being the so called "gas guzzlers" for quite a few years. Interesting it will probably equal and exceed the Volvo advocate set's mpg. But of course as we on this board know, it has ALWAYS been in reach. 30-35 mpg for the pu truck and suv set will be a segment grower! Perhaps that is truly what they have been afraid of all along.

lemko

I guess the environmentalists think it's a better idea to make 40 trips moving your apartment in a Honda Fit versus one trip in a Ford F-150.

anythngbutgm

That's why they have U-haul. An F-150 as a daily driver for a 90lb trophy wife is a waste just so you can move once or twice during ownership.

hypnosis44

If you were in the moving business you would not be using an F-150, great truck that it is:-)

larsb

Hear Hear !! Great comment, and my sentiment exactly....it never ceases to amaze me seeing all these little women driving these big ole' SUVs and trucks for no apparent reason...

Back to Toyota in 2007:

Toyota Leads in recalls in 2007?

Thunder on the Tundra: Toyota Trucks Ahead in 2007 Recalls

If you've merely done a moderate amount of Internet surfing or cracked open a newspaper lately - just about any newspaper - you've undoubtedly seen the news that Toyota has once again passed Ford in worldwide auto sales and may pass GM sometime this year.

But what you may not have seen is that Toyota has already passed both Ford and GM in a differ end category - automotive recalls.

Although we've barely passed mid-February, Toyota has already recalled! 533,417 vehicles this year in a mix that, according to www.AutoRecalls.us, includes Tundras Sequoias and Camry’s. That puts Toyota on track to recall more than the over 1.76 million autos they recalled in the U.S. and Japan in 2006, and the 2.2 million they recalled in 2005 when they recalled more cars than they built.

What's more, the current recall related to the Turdra trucks and Sequioa SUVs is similar to the same defect in 800,000 of the same vehicles in 2005.
Maybe somebody at Toyota isn't paying attention?

210delray

Old news - mid February?

Besides, you can't project out recalls like sales. Recalls come in "batch mode," not one at a time.

We'll see at the end of the year where things stand.

210delray

it never ceases to amaze me seeing all these little women driving these big ole' SUVs and trucks for no apparent reason

Do they use ladders to get in and parachutes to get out?

ruking1

LOL.

More on point, a 30/35 mpg pu truck would be a segment no brainer. Puts more utility in a pick up "UTILITY" truck. This would of course appeal to the already wide audience.

hypnosis44

They are very agile and great fun to watch!

anythngbutgm

So true...

Regarding the article, surely it is no secret that Toyota recalls have increased, but how it will affect future growth I'd expect very little. Toyota is a monster, growing exponentially, year after year with no end in sight.

I really think that in the end, Toyota has already won over a good portion of the buying public with on the average consistantly good product over the years and it'll take a good run of bad publicity for them to fall like the domestics did back in the day. Could it happen? Sure. Will it happen? doubt it. Toyota has more money than god and I'm sure they've thrown a few bucks down to make sure things go smoother in the future.

Me, I've never owned one. But I know plenty who do and they swear by 'em. Won't even look at another brand becuase well... good experiences have never given them a reason to.

rockylee

I hear from co-workers that own older Tundra's saying their was a recall on the 07's already ?

Rocky

dreasdad

Sorry , but the popular engine is the 5.7 not the 4.7

The 5.7 i srated higher than the 4.7 but it is not shwon on my chart for 2008 ratings,

13-17 is the 4.7 2008 rating

gagrice

Not sure which chart you are looking at. This looks like the new Tundra and says 5.7L at a combined 14 MPG.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=23937-

lemko

...to work for Toyota? (from Working Families):

"Moving Forward." That's how Toyota describes itself to customers. But on the treatment of its workers, the company is stuck in reverse. Toyota has received $371 million in state and local tax subsidies since 1986, according to publicly available records. In return, the company promised to bring quality manufacturing jobs to states like Kentucky.

But Toyota isn't keeping its promise. At a town hall forum March 31, workers at the plant in Georgetown, Ky., told about co-workers who were injured on the job and then never came back to work. Employees told about full-time workers being replaced with temporary workers--who get paid half what regular team members earn and cannot afford health insurance.

These trends could be just the beginning. The Detroit Free Press reported Feb. 8 that a "report from Seiichi (Sean) Sudo, president of Toyota Engineering and Manufacturing in North America, said the company should strive to align hourly wages more closely with prevailing manufacturing pay in the state where each plant is located, 'and not tie ourselves so closely to the U.S. auto industry, or other competitors.' " In Kentucky in 2005, manufacturing wages were 56 percent of motor vehicle manufacturing wages.

At the town hall forum a few miles from the Georgetown plant, workers demanded the company respect its employees and the community that made the plant successful.

Tim Unger, an 18-year veteran Toyota worker, said:

Shoulders would wear out, wrists would require surgery and back and hands started to fail. It seemed as if the good people who contributed to the success of Toyota were being used up and disposed of like garbage.

Added Noel Christian Riddell, a 10-year veteran skilled-trades worker:

We executed model-change activities faster than any other manufacturer. I truly felt my contributions played a role in the company’s success. But something happened. After only a few years, training ceased. Suddenly, I had no sick days. My raises became smaller. My benefits were cut. My group’s manpower was slashed. And the number of temporary employees steadily grew.

It’s time Toyota gave these workers the justice on the job they deserve.

drfill

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f12fe69/0

Future Toyota Hybrids. Where are they now. Where are they going. How can they get there. Prius. Camry. Lexus. And beyond. Check it out! :shades:

DrFill

210delray

You believe this? It's old news, and it was originally a UAW press release.

gagrice

Funny thing watching this thread and others. I have not seen a single Toyota factory worker come on and defend their employer. I think they are afraid to say anything that would put their jobs in jeopardy. I could be wrong. It would be nice to hear from one of these happy Toyota line workers we hear about. I know we will not hear from the unhappy ones. There are spies.

rockylee

Is everything from the UAW, just propoganda in your eyes ? I've read story's about this for god knows how long. Is the UAW, going to find this many liars 210delray ? If you have never worked for a large corporation, I guess it's hard to believe. Trust me I know first hand as we speak ! :sick:

Rocky

bugchucker

The UAW is what is wrong with the big three. Unions have been ruining this great country and running the american auto industry into the ground.

rockylee

So workers that actually build the stuff don't deserve a slice of the pie ? I think your comment is pretty ignorant. We've had this conversation in the past. Why don't you also post the words that over paid multi-million dollar executives that run a company in the ground because they have no plan also contributed to the big three's problem ? :confuse:

Chrysler, GM, Ford, have had plenty of executives that have been paid multi-million dollar salary's and retirements and when the plane's engines quit they can grab their golden parachutes and fall to safety with a very cushy landing.

I guess the only problems they have ever had were caused by the UAW. Good Grief....... :surprise:

Rocky

tooony3

look in to the new pathfinder

gagrice

I think you will find corporate greed is more responsible for the demise of our industry in the USA, than are the Unions.

I think this is the year Toyota will have their chance to see how it is to deal with employees fairly. I am not a big fan of the UAW. I am for labor rights. If Toyota is treating older employees unfairly, I want to see justice meted out on them. There are laws against age discrimination. It is just a matter of time before these line workers feel they have had enough abuse by a corporation based thousands of miles away. It comes down to the question. Do I need this job bad enough to take the crap? I think what you are seeing is a crack in the Toyota armor.

imidazol97

>Unions have been ruining this great country and running the american auto industry into the ground.

That's a broad statement and untrue.

Highly overpaid corporate executives with huge salaries compared to the pay rates of equivalents in other countries when measured in terms of multiples of the common worker in said industry is the major problem.

Certain talkshow radio hosts would have us believe the evil is in the unions.

gagrice

I am not sure what Toyota's Watanabe makes. You are correct about CEO compensation being out of whack. I kept an article about CEO pay vs average employee pay. In 1990 the average CEO made 80 times the average worker in the company. By 2000 it went to over 500 times the average worker. You cannot blame that on the Unions. Toyota and the other Japanese automakers may pay their top executives a lot less than US corporations.

ottobooster

I don't think it's fair to point the finger exclusively at the UAW, nor is it fair to blame GM exclusively either.
Many influences have caused the decline in US automaker's fortunes. Some more than others, and I think the UAW and GM themselves fall into the category of "more than others". As to how much "more than others", would be speculation at this stage.
When the good times were good, US automakers gave unions what they wanted. Now that the good times aren't so good... the UAW doesn't seem to want to accept any part of the losses. Nor does it seem to want to be part of the solution.
But it doesn't end there. GM has guessed somewhat incorrectly on market trends, and altho' it is rebounding, it will require time for GM to catch up.
Toyota has done well, and continues to do well because they got into the US automaker business without the encumbrances of past practices--many of which were inefficient and wasteful. Also, they are good to their employees in many ways where the GMs of this world aren't. (And I don't believe these dire stories about age discrimination at Toyota--Union or not, contemporary labor laws have all but eliminated those concerns!!)
I also take that Detroit Free Press (notoriously biased against ofshore automakers--for obvious reasons) release back in February (a UAW document, BTW) which paints a grim picture of employment at the Toyota georgetown plant. Those who believe this are ignoring worse employment practices at all US automakers these days. Ask any GM retiree about how benefits are gone. Ask thousands of long term employees who are unemployed. Ask the newly hired employees about their lower wages, self funding of pensions, and reduced benefits! (Just a few examples)
Furthermore, Asian automakers such as Toyota and Honda have done much better in guessing the marketplace, ie, fuel efficient and hybrid vehicles, so they are ahead of GM in this technology just now, (Hopefully, that is changing, but will take time)
The other big reason for US declines in automaker's labor forces is the emergence of third world manufacturing capabilities. Whether we agree or not, low cost component manufacturing is, and will continue to be an objective of ALL automakers.
Like most challenges, there isn't one "Ten Dollar" answer. More likely there are "Ten--One Dollar" answers!!
Just another opinion folks.

gagrice

Welcome to the Forum.
I think that was a fair analysis of the auto manufacturing in this country. I don't think the labor laws in most of the states that the Japanese built plants are up to what they should be.

Aging workforce is a problem that all companies have to deal with. It is how they deal with it that concerns me. To expect a 55 year old worker to move, lift and function as well as he did when he was 21 is not fair. If the states will not protect those workers, who will? The Unions did not get a foothold in this country because workers were being treated fairly. They came about because corporations have NO heart. They have a bottom line and people mean NOTHING.

IF Toyota is mistreating older employees the smart younger ones will see this and vote in favor of a Union.

drfill

Let's put it this way. With his $15-20 nillion dollar bonuses, Mr. Mulally could buy and sell multiple Toyota suits.

They get paid, but they are far from "Ballers" like Bill Ford and Mr Mulally. I believe they make a tenth of what an American exec makes. Maybe LESS! :surprise:

Their compensation system is as different as the TPS they have used to dominate cardom.

DrFill