Toyota on the mend?

11718202223319

Comments

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The engine that is supposed to go in the Diesel F150 is probably a 6 cylinder version of the 3.6 TDV8 in the European Spec Range Rovers. That engine is good for mid 20's mpg in a Range Rover so I am sure low 30s would be possible in a F150.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    How does it do pulling a trailer?

    There is a commercial showing all 5 competitors pulling a 10000lb trailer TO 60mph, the Tundra did it 2.5 seconds quicker than the next best (F-150 I think it was). I don't remember what publication ran the test.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I kinda doubt that Toyota will ever go to E85 powertrains, and I am glad. I would much rather see them AND the domestics go to diesels, once they are 50-state certified.

    My prediction is that the E85 thing is never going to get off the ground before it is supplanted and replaced. The issues with E85 are too few fueling stations, notably worse mileage resulting in higher fuel costs, and higher energy consumption from stump to pump than gasoline.

    I would have liked to see if Toyota could sell a hybrid Tundra...my guess is they decided behind closed doors that they couldn't, which is why all the talk of it suddenly died.

    Thanks for clarifying the steering yoke recall for me - I had only heard that it affected Prius and a couple of non-U.S. small car models. I did hear of big ball joint problems resulting in at least two different recalls (which was part of what made 2005 so infamous for Toyota) on the old Tundra. No injuries or deaths resulted from that one though.

    As for the new model, we are getting to two full months in, and no widespread problems yet with the trucks themselves, it seems. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I've heard Mr Press give it some lip service, but Toyota isn't sweatin' Ethanol because it is small potatoes, and nobody will make enough corn to make ethanol a major afctor. People need to eat corn, not burn it. It's not gonna turn into anything. But Toyota will be ready if need be.

    The only reasonable Hybrid Tundra would be a RC, due to the lower costs. And the RC has it's own problems. If Toyota will make one, it'll be by it's 2010 deadline. I'm not holding my breast. :blush:

    Make a Sienna Hybrid first.

    DrFill
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think you know I agree on the E85. The Tundra could end up being a great truck. I think it is premature to give it a superior rating. Who cares how long it takes to go 0-60 dragging a 10,000 lb trailer? I want to know what kind of mileage it gets in day to day driving around town and on the highway. It is not EPA rated as well as the competition. It is not safety rated as well as the new GM. I'm not thrilled with any new truck. Wish I was.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    There are close to 20 owners there now, and they get 15-18 MPG. Which is great for a 380HP truck, that hasn't been broken in yet!

    DrFill
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I read that as well. I may go test drive one. Probably wait for a diesel if I can sell this GMC hybrid. I need a crew cab. The extended cab is no good for hauling people in the back seat.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    As long as ethanol is only made from Corn. It needs to be made from Sugar Cane or something else. Corn is too energy intensive and requires too much petro-chemical based fertilizers to make sense.

    Just look at how well Brazil has down their their Sugar Cane Derived Ethanol.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Test drive the Double cab. I think you'll be surprised at the size of the rear.

    Unless you are carrying 6 footers, the DC will do you just fine. ;)

    DrFill
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Agree -- the new Double Cab is like others' crew cabs, and it has 4 conventionally hinged doors.

    BTW, with the weight of the garden variety F-150 (and Tundra for that matter) near 5000 pounds, is a 4- or 5-cylinder diesel engine even a viable option? I'd think you'd need at least a 3.0 L V6.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I will check it out. I want 4 doors that can open individually. I do not like the extended cab where you have to open the front to let people out of the back.

    I am basing my impression on the 5 cylinder 2.7L diesel in my Mercedes Sprinter RV. It was about 8000 lbs and had plenty of power and rated for a 5000 lb trailer. It went through the mountains with ease and the 5 speed TipTronic transmission was great for gearing down when descending steep hills. I just refuse to be a part of the HP race. You all can have that gas guzzling power. I do not need it in a PU truck. I need the torque that only a diesel engine provides.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    And who could forget the Pinto gas tank recall?!
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    While Gary's away in Hawaii, I'll take up his bandwidth, I'm sure he won't mind ;) , ( just back from the Bahamas ).

    RECALLS:
    Every vehicle maker's recall numbers will be higher than before due to a different political and liability environment since Ford/Firestone. Also the NHTSA will never again be called the 'lap dog of the auto industry'.
    Snarling pit bull might better describe it.

    PRODUCT PLACEMENT:
    All Toyota's before and after the Supra are directed to the middle of the market where all the volume is. This by necessity is a more homogenized type of vehicle. Bland? Possibly. Boring? Probably. Profitable? Definitely. The excitement is ceded to the marginal players like Mazda or Pontiac(?) or BMW.

    The Tundra is a prime example. It's aimed directly at the most profitable segment of the 1/2 ton truck market. The retail Dbl Cab/Ext Cab/Super Cab 2WD and 4WD buyer. In this subsegment the Tundra price is $2000 to $5000 lower than an equivalent vehicle from the detroit 3.

    INNOVATION:
    There are few if any vehicle makers that have the marketing foresight that Toyota shows...
    ..did anyone in 2003 think that the Prius would EXPLODE in the public's consiousness the way that it did;
    ..but the hybrid Camry was already in the works at that time as the 'mainstreaming' vehicle;
    ..the crossover SUV segment was created by Toyota in 1995 with the first RAV;
    ..then it really took off with the first RX300, a luxury crossover;
    ..drop the venerable Celica and quadruple sales of the entry sport coupe ( Scion tC );
    ..as noted previously creating a Luxury Division out of thin air in the 90's has been a marketing coup;
    The market understanding may be better than the vehicles, IMO.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    My only issue is I KNOW how good a sports car Toyota can make! It's a niche that they can't really make big money on. Old MR2 Turbos, Celica All-Tracs, and the legend that is Supra show a legacy of greatness, but those days are over.

    Scion tC, having driven it a couple of weeks ago, is WELL BEHIND a Mazda 3 and Civic Si on sportiness. Not that it isn't a great value.

    Toyota is after dollars. I think making some sporty cars would bring a younger buyer around, but the Scion brand hedges that bet, even though Scion appeals to older buyers too. :(

    DrFill
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    You better do some homework..............

    The tundra costs MORE than the Detroit trucks........
    A reg cab v-8 4x4 base cost almost $5000 more than a
    Chevy............

    Edmunds vehicle comparator will show ya !

    This ain't the first time either..............
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Whining because your proven wrong again on both counts?

    The tundra in ANY configuration costs MORE at MSRP than a GM
    and most other Detroit trucks............ :cry:
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    It'd be groovy if the personal comments could just stop here.

    Instead of continuing to debate this point, why not just pull MSRPs side-by-side? One can do that relatively easily right on Edmunds.com, by choosing the "compare vehicles" option. That would end this (boring) debate rather quickly.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Toyota Tundra SR5 4dr Double Cab 4WD SB (5.7L 8cyl 6A):
    MSRP $31,160
    Invoice $28,198

    Chevy Silverado 1500 LT2 4dr Crew Cab 4WD 5.8 ft. SB (5.3L 8cyl 4A)
    MSRP $34,940
    Invoice $31,970

    2007 models. I selected this Toyota at random, then used the "compare vehicles" tool to select the GM truck deemed most comparable. My bet would be that occasionally GM wins on price as well.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Fabulous. Now that, together, we've proved that you are both occasionally incorrect (similar to many other human beings), can we move on?

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    It would appear you just compared a crew cab to a double cab.

    I guess being wrong is kinda like the common cold over here. It seems....well....common. :sick:

    DrFill
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    The thing is...

    The new Tundra's double cab is like everybody else's crew cab and Tundra's crew cab is like those Escalad SUTs.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The pricing data on
    Dbl Cabs (T) / Ext Cabs (GM) / Super Cabs (F) / Quad Cabs (D)
    is shown below: This has nothing to do with Reg Cab trucks.

    5.7L Tundra 2WD SR5 : $28755 ... 4WD SR5 : $31805
    5.3L Silvy 2WD LT2 .. : $29490 ... 4WD SR5 : $32590 .. $785 higher
    5.3L Sierra 2WD SLE : $29890 ... 4WD SLE : $32990 .. $1185 higher
    5.4L F150 2WD XLT .. : $28450 ... 4WD XLT : $31450 .. $355 lower
    5.7L Ram 2WD SLT .. : $28990 ... 4WD SLT : $32120 .. $315 higher

    However to make the equipment equal to the Tundra the other 4 vehicles have to add the following extras:

    Silvy/Sierra : $1590 Additional
    Large V8....... Incl
    5 Spd AT....... Not Avail
    Stab Ctrl...... $425
    Trac Ctrl...... Incl
    ALSD........... Incl
    S/C Airbags.... $395
    Tow Package.... $675 ( 8900# Max )
    Tailgate Damp.. $95

    F150 : $1740 Additional
    Large V8....... $895
    5 Spd AT....... Not Avail
    Stab Ctrl...... Not Avail
    Trac Ctrl...... $195
    ALSD........... $300
    S/C Airbags.... Not Avail
    Tow Package.... $350
    Tailgate Damp.. Not Avail

    Ram : $4325 Additional
    Large V8....... $995
    5 Spd AT....... $1170
    Stab Ctrl...... $830
    Trac Ctrl...... Incl
    ALSD........... $325
    S/C Airbags.... $490
    Tow Package.... $335
    Light Group.... $180
    Tailgate Damp.. Not Avail

    Now one can always opt to take a vehicle with lesser equipment and avoid the extra charges. That's a very real possibility. ;)

    The summary is that..
    ..the Silvy/Sierra are comparable in equipment but are $2325-$2775 more in price;
    ..the F150 is $1435 more in price but it lacks a bunch of equipment in comparison;
    ..the Ram is roughly comparable in equipment but it's ~$4500 higher in price.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Nice try, but even I won't buy that one.

    DrFill
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Toyota Motor Corp., which has just overtaken General Motors Corp. to become the world's No. 1 automaker, reported annual record profits of $13.8 billion and forecast a slight, further increase in earnings for the current year.

    Toyota said the 20 percent earnings gain, on sales of $199.5 billion, reflected brisk sales of fuel-efficient cars, strict cost-controls and the benefits of a weak yen on its export business.

    con't.......

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070509/UPDATE/705090450/1148- /rss25

    I'd like a break down to how many billions of that profit is from currency manipulation. No wonder their #1 in sales and profits. ;)

    -Rocky
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Woo-Hoo! :)

    Perfect storm. Great management, great R&D, great market conditions equal great results.

    DrFill
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Now you have a chance to improve their lousy customer service ratings. At least at one dealership. Good luck!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The article you linked says nothing about quality that I can see. Sales are down or flat for everyone (even GM on year to year sales) and the reason pointed to is the economy.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Talking about the failure of this country's education system...
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    I suspect there is more to it than the economy in the case of Toyota.

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2043
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    You are right, there are more to it than the economy:

    1. Toyota also lowered incentives offered.

    In addition, Toyota lowered incentive spending. “Toyota has pulled back to the extent that it may have hurt them,” said Toprak.

    2. Toyota had a blockbuster month in August 2006

    Less surprising was the fact that Toyota sales were down as they had been in July. Toprak noted that Toyota had a blockbuster month in August 2006. “We knew there would be tough comparison.”

    3. Camry sales hurt due to the Honda Accord clearance sale.

    Case in point is the Toyota Camry vs. Honda Accord showdown. The aged Accord, which is replaced this fall, outsold the Camry, the best-selling car in America for years, in August, largely due to heavy incentive spending by Honda to move the old Accord off lots to make room for the new model.

    Source: August Sales: Highlights, Lowlights
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    GM is up 6% for August. That is promising.

    General Motors Corp. (GM) was the only company among the top four on the sales list to report Tuesday an increase in sales for August, though the largest U.S. auto maker also announced it would scale back production for the remainder of the year. Sales at Ford Motor Co. (F), Toyota Motor Corp. (TM) and Chrysler all showed declines, as housing market woes, high fuel prices and financial market volatility take a toll on consumer sentiment.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    And FYI, this Impala owner posted the same thing on the Toyota "glitch" thread.

    Wow, Toyota down 2.8% in August compared to a year ago. Big decline you know! I think louiswei set the record straight, however.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I know it is tough for these guys to accept that Toyota could stumble in such a big way. They cannot compete in the full size SUV & PU truck market where all the big bucks are made. They depend on miniature cars like the Yaris to give them the NUMBERS needed to look like a giant auto maker. They should have to sell 3 of those toaster size cars to equal one real car. Some one should tell Toyota, it takes more than ugly styling to sell real vehicles. :shades:
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    Yes, so true. It also takes more than Madison Avenue hype which is about what they've got going for them. Their vehicles are grossly overrated and overhyped. Not to mention overpriced. The market is finally waking up to the considerable flaws in their cars such as the transmission defects in the Camry and the Lexus ES 350.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    Where does the education system fit into this? Please explain.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >And FYI, this Impala owner posted the same thing on the Toyota "glitch" thread.

    Are you saying because priggly is an Impala owner (?) they're not allowed to post in the Toyota "glitch" thread?

    Or are you saying they've not allowed to post about Toyota's drop in sales despite a full-sized Tundra truck and a slick new Camry 07 and a number of fuel-efficient cars among some that aren't fuel-efficient?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    No, not at all, but spamming (posting the same item on multiple boards) isn't allowed by Edmunds' rules of the road.

    Plus I don't make a habit of going on the GM (or Ford or Chrysler) forums jumping up and down with glee every time there's a sales drop, recall, or quality issue.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    There you go again. If you haven't checked lately, the largest Toyota car sales come from the Camry, Corolla, and Prius in that order.

    You really do have a hatred for Toyota, you must admit. I don't hate GM -- look at my profile and user name. It would be better for all if the domestics could turn their dire situation around - competition benefits everyone.

    And really, too much is being made of a 2.8% drop in sales for one month. Year-to-date, Toyota is up, GM is down. OTOH, I'd be worried if I were running Ford. A 14% drop in August, AND down year-to-date.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >Plus I don't make a habit of going on the GM (or Ford or Chrysler) forums jumping up and down with glee every time there's a sales drop, recall, or quality issue.

    Neither do I.

    Others do and have. Usually until they cause enough problems that the discussion gets shut down.

    >spamming (posting the same item on multiple boards) isn't allowed by Edmunds' rules of the road.

    I'm sure the hosts will take care of it if it becomes a problem.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I just try to keep a nice balance amongst the bashers. I think you will find on Edmund's a lot more GM bashing than Toyota bashing. I don't think the fact that Toyota sales have fallen a bit is any less news than the ONE quarter they sold more than GM. It seems they were taking over the automotive world when that happened. It was premature as they got too big too fast and the ONE thing they had going for them went down hill. They lost that quality control edge that was driving their sales.

    As far as hating Toyota. That is a bit strong. I really don't like anything they are building at present for sale in the USA. I would consider a mid sized PU with diesel or their very fine Land Cruiser diesel being sold to the rest of the World. To be quite honest, there is not a new vehicle being offered in the US that I really, really like. If there were I would have bought one. Just got the LS400 and Ranger smogged. Both passed with flying colors so I guess I'm good for another couple years. Maybe some automaker will offer something I like in the future, maybe even ToyLex....
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    The market is finally waking up to the considerable flaws in their cars such as the transmission defects in the Camry and the Lexus ES 350.

    Really, wow! What did you base on to make such a statement because the buying public apparently disagree with you.

    Camry sales was up 1% despite the "Honda Accord Clearance Sale". The ES350 was up 8% and is the best selling Lexus sedans within its lineup.

    A little research before posting will help a lot you know...
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >Camry sales was up 1% despite the "Honda Accord Clearance Sale".

    "Camry sales were up 1%" is a low figure. That's considering it was a new model of a "different" design than predecessors were. Sales should have been up much more than that, if people weren't hearing the talk.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Figure Toyota sells 450 thousand of those suckers per year. 1% increase is actually significant when you sell that many to begin with.

    Also, the segment is saturated as it is, and there are only so many folks you can target. And if Toyotas' crosstown rival Honda is sweetening their deals on Accords, folks who pretty much ride the fence on their preference may choose the Honda. Even then it still didn't affect Camry sales one bit.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Uh...

    What are you talking about?

    The new Camry was already on the market for over 2 months last August so the comparison is new Camry vs. new Camry NOT new Camry vs. old Camry.

    Last year this time the Camry didn't have to face the "Honda Accord Clearance Sale" so I think any gain is good for the Camry despite it's only 1%.

    Like I said, little research will go a long way... ;)
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Actually, the '07 Camry was introduced in March 2006, so it's been available for a full year and a half now.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    What Jim is thinking? Give me a hint! :surprise:

    DrFill
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "One Toyota insider who asked not to be named said that while Press did receive a big promotion, his job as head of the holding group exiled him from daily operations.

    Press, a competitive swimmer at 61, is known for his high energy and constant need to be challenged. The Toyota source says the executive simply wanted to get back into the day-to-day game of sales, marketing, and product planning. The promotion put Press in a figurehead role where he was the public face of the company, but planning new models and selling cars was left to the executives he trained."

    Business Week
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Interesting announcement!! They must have dangled HUGE chunks of cash to make him switch!! It also must be a relatively "risk less" time to try to tack on "savior" to ones' resume.
Sign In or Register to comment.