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Comments
I won't disagree if someone calls the current gen GS a failure. I personally wouldn't use failure to describe it, it just didn't live up to expectation. Failure to me is something like a Caddy Cimarron. With the '08 refresh and new V8 engine let's just wait and see if the sales for the GS350/460/450h will pick up
The IS is breaking even compare to its debut year!! What does that tell us? It tells us that even after the first year hype the new IS is holding steady in sales. That's pretty good in my book. If you still don't think the new IS is a success then please compare the sales number of the new to the previous generation and get back to me.
Of course none of the CUV/SUVs are selling great since Lexus currently has a pretty dated light truck lineup. Starting this fall with the LX570, Lexus will have the new RX rolling out next year and a new compact luxury CUV in the pipeline. Lexus spent the time from '05 to early '07 to revise its whole sedan lineup and for the next couple years to come we'll see a brand new SUV/CUV lineup. The Lexus punches are keep on coming and don't appear to be slowing down. Scary huh?
I thought the old Celica couldn't fill out the look Toyota was going for. The Supra was the right size for that rounded-muscle look. Just the rear-brake intakes were off.
DrFill
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If your cousin doesn't like the 07 Camry why did she buy it in the first place? I mean don't you test drive a vehicle before you buy it?
Yeah well the way Toyota struggles in the Pick-up and SUV category is the way the Domestics struggle in the passenger car segments currently(sup-compact, compact, and mid-size categories.) They Domestics are known for making good pick-ups and SUVs where as Toyota is not and the Domestics aren't known for making a compact or mid-size car like Toyota does(Camry, Corolla.)
She never test drives cars? Oh I don;t want to say about that.
"The new Toyota is a big disappointment to more buyers than just her."
How is the new Toyota a disspointment too many people?
"Hey, I just ask people about their cars. If they say they don't like it, I ask why. Just my natural curiosity."
I understand what you are saying Gary.
If you look at the customer rating on the 2007 Camry they have 850 people reviewing the cars. It has a very poor 8.5 Rating. The 2006 model Camry got a 9.1 rating. The main competition 2007 Accord is getting a 9.1 rating from owners.
The biggest complaint is the jerky acceleration. With the dealers telling the customers that is the way the car is designed. Will they get their act together on the 2008 Camry?
The Camry doesn't have a poor 8.5 review rating since an 8.5 rating on Edmunds is still between an excellent and a very good rating. Besides the Camry was in its first year of a new generation bodystyle so it is gonna have its first year bugs. The 2007 Accord was in its 5th year of a current generation bodystyle as was the 06 Camry.
"The biggest complaint is the jerky acceleration. With the dealers telling the customers that is the way the car is designed."
If people don;t like jerky acceleration on the Camry why would you buy a Camry in the first place if you don;t like the jerky acceleration? Wouldn't you find out about the jerky acceleration on a test drive of the Camry? It probably was the way the car was designed.
This is a typical review on Edmund's for the 2007 Camry:
I bought this vehicle on July 23, 2007. Here are the transmission problems I've experienced: 2-3 second delay while accelerating. Re- calibration of the ECM has knocked that 2-3 second delay down to 1-2 seconds. Transmission is "confused" and CONTINUALLY shifts at speeds of 28 to 35, 38 to 42, and 45 to 51 MPH. At this rate, the Transmission will go out @ 37,000 miles (right after my Warranty expires!) It is in the shop now (4th time in 29 days) this time they've had it for 5 days and counting. To the Poster from 08/14/2007, if I wanted to "use the shifter" to drive my car, I would have bought a manual...I'm not whining, I'm stating the facts. I, too, smell lemons.
Having driven dozens of Camrys myself, I haven't noticed any transmission problems. But that doesn't mean some cars haven't had first-year problems. :surprise:
2007 Toyota Yaris has a 9.4 rating. 2007 Honda Fit, 9.2. Does that make Yaris a better car? According to you, yeah. Thank you very much!
I've heard someone cry wolf a few times before. It gets old.
DrFill
No, that is NOT a "typical" review for the 2007 Camry. That is "one" review for the 2007 Camry. Please just state the fact and not trying to spin it in your favor. I am now curious, are you on GM payroll? :confuse:
With everyone of those review, I can find 20 others saying exactly the OPPOSITE...
What's the point.
My suggestion is to ready the October MT's Accord vs. Camry Comparison. To my surprise MT editors actually felt the Camry SE handled better than Accord :surprise: . The Accord came out on top due to one subjective criteria: styling. They also felt the new Accord has a more balanced ride quality.
I owned a 1996 Camry and now own a 2007 Camry Hybrid.
The 2007 is a FAR FAR FAR superior car.
There's my contribution to the discussion.
Don't bother. I have made that argument to him MANY times to no avail.
In his eyes, ANYONE saying ANYTHING bad about a car means doom and destruction for that automaker.
It does not matter to him that EVERY CAR on the road has HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS, of unhappy owners. And it's because owners can get unhappy about a plethora of little piddly problems and start "hating" their car for no good reason.
Every car on the road is a collection of mechanical devices - and mechanical devices occasionally FAIL.
Gary, your really are not too naive to understand why, although for the sake of winning your point you will pretend to be.
Car dealers do that to prevent theft, among many other reasons. Not to try to "hide defects" in cars.
In Arizona, certain dealerships with whom I have done business also have it as their policy to send a salesman with the potential buyer/test driver.
You know why?
To answer any questions the tester might have during the test drive.
You know why?
Because that prevents this from happening:
Test driver to wife: "This A/C seems kind of weak."
Wife of test driver: "Yes, it's really hot in here."
Test driver to wife: "I guess we better try a different car."
With the salesperson in the car, they could have said, "here, let me set that A/C on recirculate and adjust the temp and we can get it cool in here in no time."
That's just one of a HUNDRED scenarios where an uniformed test driver can "summarily dismiss" a vehicle for a stupid reason.
Having a salesperson in the car allows them to build a better relationship with the potential buyer and get more information to help close the deal.
Believe me: there is not a dealership in the USA which sends salespeople on test drives with the intent to help HIDE a defect in the car.
That was not my point. The point is you get a VERY limited test drive with a salesperson in the car. I know of people that the dealers have given them a car to try overnight or longer. Not so with dealers in CA. You may like a salesman in the car to make sure the AC is adjusted correctly. I would prefer to discuss the pros and cons with my wife and not some salesman. A salesman that 99 times out of 100 knows less about the car than I do. You can make all the excuses along with the rest of the Toyota fans. There are serious problems with the new Camry. I would challenge the other poster to find 20 good reviews to every poor review on the new Camry. They start at 1.5 with over 10% not reaching a 6.0 score. That is a lot of unhappy 2007 Camry owners.
larsb: Your Camry being the hybrid may not have the same problem that the ICE only Camry owners are experiencing. Did you get all your squeaks and rattles repaired?
In your eyes only, my friend.
I can post a long list of complaints from owners of ANY 2007 car. Want to test me? Name a car. I can post dozens of owner complaints about it. Try me.
Camry "problems" are not hurting sales. There are no "Investigative Reporting" stories about how Toyota is fooling the buying public by selling them a car that is a piece of crap. No one I have heard of has gone to the press saying, "Toyota has a problem with the 2007 Camry and they are trying to hide it."
Show me THAT article and I might believe you, Gary.
Gary says, "Did you get all your squeaks and rattles
repaired?"
Didn't really have any squeaks or rattles, or at least not any worth worrying about.
A car is not a wall safe - very few cars are completely silent inside.
Most of the issues I have read about are because the TCH is so QUIET anyway, that hearing ANY LITTLE SOUND is amplified in the silence.
Name me a 2007 car dealer from ANY state selling a car under $50,000 which will someone they don't know who is "car shopping" to take a test drive car overnight or longer.
I know some of the Bentley and high end dealers will do that.
I don't know of any Chevy dealers who will do that.
NHTSA Campaign ID Number: 06V096000 - Hide Details
Recall Date: 04/03/2006
Component: 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY AIR BAGS
Potential Units Affected: 133
2007 TOYOTA CAMRY AIR BAGS
Recall Date: 04/03/2006
Summary:
ON CERTAIN VEHICLES, DUE TO IMPROPER ASSEMBLY OF THE AIR BAG INFLATOR, WHICH IS USED IN THE SIDE AIR BAG, THE CURTAIN SHIELD AIR BAG, AND THE KNEE AIR BAG ASSEMBLY, SOME INFLATORS WERE PRODUCED WITH AN INSUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF THE HEATING AGENTS NECESSARY FOR PROPER AIR BAG DEPLOYMENT. IN THIS CONDITION, THE EXPANSION FORCE OF THE GAS MAY BE INSUFFICIENT TO PROPERLY INFLATE THE AIR BAG WHEN THE SRS SYSTEM IS ACTIVATED DURING A CRASH.
Consequence:
THIS MAY INCREASE THE RISK OF INJURY TO THE OCCUPANT IN THE INVOLVED SEATING POSITION IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE SPECIFIC SRS AIR BAG. THE RECALL BEGAN ON APRIL 6, 2006. OWNERS MAY CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-888-270-9371, SCION AT 1-866-548-1851, OR LEXUS AT 1-800-255-3987.
Potential Units Affected: 133
Notes: TOYOTA CAMRY 60B 6LB
Still looking for other indications that there are "serious problems" with the 2007 Camry.
"The answer seems to be that the new Camry has a drive-by-wire system that remembers how a driver accelerates. So in response to an unexpected demand from consumers like Bonnie trying to navigate the busy roads of New Jersey, the Camry engine and transmissions may tend to hesitate.
That is because when an easy-going driver demands immediate power the software that controls the four-cylinder engine and five-speed automatic transmission can be momentarily confused, causing the Camry to bog down.
A service bulletin from Toyota is on the way to dealers with an software modification that is described as "easily accomplished” according to a company spokesman. The dealership can tailor the engine and transmission software however a Camry owner wants, according to the company, but dealers will make the modification only if owners report a problem.
Camrys built after October 1 2006 carry new software that does not slow engine and transmission performance, according to the company. Toyota says it doesn't know how many consumers driving the 2007 version of the best-selling car in America are riding around with the old software."
Another little problem, solved at the factory.
I think the test drive factor depends on the dealer and their insurance company. And maybe your looks. (Are you wearing your farming clothes to the dealer Gary? :shades: )
The overnight test drive was absolutely a factor in buying it.
I do not like salesmen along for the test drive. They invariably talk when I am trying to listen to the car. Usually around here if they come they direct you on a route. That won't cut it for me. I want to hear the car at speed, on a less than perfect road (no, I'm not taking it out in the woods or anything), I want to hear it with the stereo on and off, with the climate control or whatever going strong and not at all. This never happens with company on board.
If their answer is no then you have a case, otherwise you don't.
..Tundra sales are much much better than Corporate expected; the DC and CM models are the driving force.
..industry sales will likely be soft through the Spring.
..there is a new vehicle coming next year that will surprise everyone; it's not an auto, truck, SUV or crossover.
Please tell me it's the new Supra or the below-$20K RWD Coupe (the AE86 successor).
I got it. They are so thrilled with larsb sticking up for them no matter how bad they get, that they are building a competitor for the Segway. The Toyway personal transportation vehicle.
A Supra with a 6-speed would qualify, doh.
DrFill
The interesting part (to me anyway, even though I don't much like horror stories) is that "of all customers trading in a full-size pickup to purchase a new Tundra, a stunning 36 percent are “upside down” (owe more than the vehicle is worth).
And the average upside-downess? A giant $3,600."
Toyota is using this factoid to explain why they have money on the Tundra's hood.
overnight an '07 RX350 last year to test drive
before I ended up purchasing mine.
Fortunately for me, all my cars are long-since paid off. I've just got to resist the temptation to buy another one.
8-year loans? Good God, if you think of how much has changed in eight years you realize how long a time that is to pay for a car. Eight years ago 9-11 had yet to happen and Bill Clinton was still in office. Heck, even in my own personal life, eight years ago I didn't yet meet my girlfriend, my sister was not yet married, and my nephew wasn't yet born, I was still living in my old neighborhood, and driving a 1994 Cadillac DeVille. :surprise:
Good admission taken away from the posturing in the link by Steve where Toyota is running the PR machine to try to extend the concept that Toyota never has to use incentives like those, gasp, US manufacturers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It is taught in school. However it's up to parents to do most of the teaching of the youngster.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Even when accompanied by a salesperson at other dealerships, I have found that all you have to tell them is "I'm interested in this model. I need to take it on a longer drive" and they will let you deviate from their preset route and go where you'd like. I DO prefer the unaccompanied test drives though.
And this:
"there is a new vehicle coming next year that will surprise everyone; it's not an auto, truck, SUV or crossover."
...is just Toyotaspeak for something that they want to call a segment-buster but which is actually a perfectly ordinary car, I bet. They have done it before, they will do it again.
I recently accidentally "inherited" a 4-cylinder Camry, 12 years old with 156K miles now. Running like a top, has used no oil in 5K miles, runs just like it's new despite all the miles. And this is definitely my favorite style of Camry among the last four generations. Toyota styling in general has gone from generally pleasing to forgettably inoffensive to awkward and garishly icky in the last 10 years, IMO. But then, nobody ever accused the Japanese of being able to style a car well, and rightfully so....
....but I will add that my current Matrix caught my eye in 2002 when it came out. I do like its looks quite a bit even though I realize it will quickly become dated.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes, this Camry I suddenly find myself the owner of is a '95, the same series as your mechanic's '94, and quite pleasing to the eye I think. I didn't mind the look of the angular '97-'01 series, although it was a step back in styling, and then of course beginning in '02 Toyota quite lost its way with the Camry. But then, Camry became much larger in '02, the same thing the Accord did in '03 and has done even more for '08, and it is difficult IMO to make a good-looking large car, one or two Mercedes and Cadillacs notwithstanding. There isn't any volume large car in production today that I think looks very good. The best might be the Chrysler 300, but I would never own one because the slits-for-windows are much too small.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
GM would. :surprise:
DrFill
I can finance my car at far less than I am making on my investment money, so paying for the car is a drain not a savings. Additionally, people who have no record of car payments undermine their credit scores because their profile then fits the "non-creditworthy". There is no gain to be had.
I have no record and I am certain not "noncreditworthy."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,