Your conspiracy theory about Consumer Reports being in Toyota's pocket sure does a good job explaining why the Lexus GX was rated "Not Acceptable". Every model affected by the throttle pedal recall lost its Recommended rating, even.
You missed the whole point of the article - Toyoda's back to turn the company around.
here in this forum many toyota fans tried so hard to persuade us all that toyota is still the best
Who said that? Link and post # please?
Your RANTS are difficult to READ because you put CAPS in a lot of STRANGE places.
What surprised me is that ... you are surprised. We've seen all this before, with all the big manufacturers. Cost cutting is rampant in the industry, Toyota didn't pioneer it, not by a long shot.
I don't think anyone has been denying there's been cost cutting by Toyota. In fact, I'm one of the people pointing that out. Go touch a 2011 Sienna's dash or glove box.
But to say that any of the Big 3 hasn't done much of the same is naive, to say the least.
There are too many examples to list, I won't even bother. Anyone who thinks GM or Ford or Chrysler has not had major strokes of cost cutting is drinking the Kool-Aid at the dealerships.
Hey, it doesn't stop with automobile manufacturers.
Even the company that set the gold standard for product reliability, Johnson and Johnson (Tylenol) flubbed with its most recent product problem issue.
It would appear that many (if not almost all) large public companies have thrown everything to the wind in search of the almighty profit. It certainly isn't just foreign companies.
I'm so glad the Yankees recruited him, because now everyone knows how to pronounce my name!
tee yikes eye ya right?
I sure wish the Mets had gotten him but they didn't even try. At least the Sox gave it a go. He's one of a handful of the best players in MLB at the moment. Well, except in April.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
These last series of Toyota quality issues have caused consumers to open their minds and look at other brands of automobiles. Toyota will be fine. They will however loose market share in the coming years. Toyota no longer has the market cornered for reliability/quality in the automotive industry. Consumers are starting to understand this and are browsing other showrooms.
NHTSA steps up stalling probe of Toyota Corolla, Matrix
The government is taking the next step in its investigation into complaints of stalled engines on Toyota Corolla sedans and Matrix hatchbacks.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has upgraded its investigation to an "engineering analysis," the Associated Press. There are two possible explanations for the stalling: Improper coating on circuit boards and a crack in the surface of a glass coating. Both could have happened when the cars were being made.
The new second-stage investigation covers 1.8 million Corolla and Matrix cars from model years 2005 to 2007. It follows the preliminary probe that began in December, which covered the 2006 model year Corollas and Matrixes. NHTSA has received 163 complaints about stalling engines.
Corolla is one of the nation's best selling sedans.
I think one of the other GM brands have taken over warranty work. I would assume that would include recalls. Though there is no recall as of yet. Toyota is hoping it will just go away. I doubt there are enough Vibes on the road to make much difference. It was not mentioned in the article. Maybe Toyota uses a different OEM for their circuit boards.
interesting question. since Pontiac doesn't exist anymore, can their vehicles be recalled? Who is going to pay to fix them?
Pontiac may be gone, but GM is still here, and that's who the selling agent was/is.
As for the recalls, if they do happen, the same warranty provider (Chevrolet, Buick, ???) would no doubt also be the one to take charge of the recalls.
I can't imagine the Vibe would be left out, as I doubt they used different parts that are currently under the microscope (but its possible that they may have).
These folks do have an upside, though... At least they don't have to worry about a runaway vehicle!
I'm pretty sure all stalling is unintended, so you can leave that out and just call it stalling.
Sometimes, we all tend to overlook the obvious....LOL!
August is bad news - JDP is forecasting an overall drop of 15% in auto sales.
Just curious .... What was their reasoning? Isn't August usually a good sales month, with dealers wanting to move inventory for the next year model line-up?
In the end, if the cars sell, I doubt its significant in the grand scheme whether the sale is in August or September. So, I agree with your assessment.
the thing is, the 'GM' that built them does not exist anymore, just like I wrote before. there is no legal obligation to fix them but they will probably get fixed as a 'good will' gesture.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
A: Yes, and extended warranties as well, says Steve Harris, General Motors' vice president of global communications. In addition to the company's backing, they have the federal government standing behind them. The government's Warranty Commitment Plan was announced in March to reassure buyers of General Motors and Chrysler vehicles that warranty claims would be honored during the companies' restructuring.
•Purchase a new car or truck, and GM will offer a fully transferable 100,000 mile/five-year powertrain limited warranty covering the major components of the drive line. This includes the engine, transmission, transfer case and axles. For repairs covered under warranty, your dealer will offer you free transportation. If no transportation option is available, GM will reimburse you for travel expenses incurred from the warranty repair. Also standard with the warranty is free 24-hour roadside assistance, including lockout assistance, gasoline, flat tire changing and towing.
Old GM Warranty
•If you purchased a GM car or truck before or during the bankruptcy reorganization process, the new GM will honor those warranty commitments. In March 2009, the government's Warranty Commitment Plan was announced to restore confidence to GM owners and buyers. In a June 5, 2009, issue of USA Today, Steve Harris, General Motors' vice president of global communications, reassured consumers that their existing GM vehicle warranty will continue to have the company's full backing and reaffirmed the support of the federal government.
Unless the judge overseeing the restructuring in a C 11 relieves a company of its obligation, then as I understand it, the obligation stays intact.
your post confirms GM is under no obligation to honor a warranty issued under the old GM. Chrysler is in the same boat and they also announced they would do the same. It would be bad business to leave those buyers holding the bag.
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What is even worse is a dealer telling a customer there is nothing wrong with their vehicle because the on board diagnostic computer says so. That is where many Toyota customers are currently standing. Check the list here before buying from a Toyota dealer. My dealership is on the third owner since I bought my Sequoia in 2007. Either tired of fixing Toyota problems or fed up with Toyota corporate.
Guess what will happen next : the toyota / DOT combo will later announce that its DRIVER ERROR once more, whereby toyota drivers FORGOT to press on the gas pedal for several minutes, thus the car loses power, stalls !!!
So toyota drivers are indeed a special breed eh ? First they keep on pressing on the wrong pedal and are so slow to correct that they slam into all kinds of objects, killing themselves at times. Now, they are so paranoid of pressing the wrong pedal that they now often forgot or refuse / hesitate to press any pedal, thus they lose power. Then they have the guts to complain its stalling !
Poor toyota ! To have customers like these ! They make excellent cars yet their customers just don't know how to use their cars properly !!
No matter what, its always toyota driver's fault. toyota is the gold standard of the American automotive industry, how can they make engines like that ? It cannot be.
And since toyota's market share of the US market is quite big, I guess this means a lot of American drivers really have problems with pressing the right pedal, correcting, braking at the appropriate time !
Read this story folks. Once again it proves what kind of people are running toyota. In the past, when their EDRs pointed at their car's faults, they say its unreliable. Now when it comes to SUA matters, when NHTSA uses their EDRs and say its mostly driver error that causes SUAs, toyota kept quiet.
So toyota wants their cake and eat it too !!! They will twist and turn to their advantage. And consumer safety is utterly ignored. So folks who still thinks its mainly toyota driver's error, WATCH OUT ! If those EDRs are as unreliable as toyotas, then its garbage in - garbage out. NHTSA can hardly issue responsible statements based on these problematic EDRs !!
As recently as the 2010 ES350 killed the Saylor family, Toyota claimed the EDR was not ready for primetime. That was their excuse for NO readers available in the USA.
That is the reason the leaked info from paid informants at the NHTSA was such a joke. For the NHTSA and Toyota to build their defense on a device that was not good enough to depend on last October, is a travesty.
Toyota seems to believe its customers are "special" - as in riding the short bus "special." They believe their customers are too mentally-challenged to drive every time there's a SUA incident or this stalling issue.
Remember, folks, there were a few that were deemed "inconclusive". You're all forgetting that.
The first leaked report claimed ALL cases were a result of human error. Then a week or so later after NHTSA said it was not close to done with the investigation. Some other bunch had a break down of the accidents. ALL based on data from EDR data that Toyota claims is not ready for general use. So why is it being used to condemn drivers? Sounds to me like a lot of lazy investigation by NHTSA, and spin by Toyota PR people.
your post confirms GM is under no obligation to honor a warranty issued under the old GM
I have a GM purchased via 'the old GM' and have had warranty work done after C11. No one at the dealership batted an eye.
At the moment, anyway, its a moot point.
Even if GM decided to attempt to revoke the prior warranties, the government owns roughly 61% of GM, which, in turn, means it controls the board of the company.
And, whoever controls the board of directors controls the company.
So, what the government wants, the government will get.
And, its clear to me (and anyone else that is even remotely familiar with this issue) that the government wants GM to honor those warranties.
Now, if someone has proof that the government doesn't want GM to maintain those pre-BR warranties, I'd love to see it;
first leaked report claimed ALL cases were a result of human error
That seems more like a biased interpretation. I seem to recall claims of "no evidence", which is very different than claiming 100% human error. Nice spin, though!
So why is it being used to condemn drivers? Sounds to me like a lot of lazy investigation by NHTSA, and spin by Toyota PR people.
In one breath you say Toyota stays quiet, now you say it's PR spin. Well, which is it? Are they quiet, or is it spin? The latest report came straight from NHTSA in an internal meeting, Toyota was not even involved. The only spin was/is yours. Sharon even pointed out your mistake.
Spin is when a Chevy's EDR makes an error and you conclude all Toyotas do the same. OK, it wasn't you who originally said that, but you quoted that person and even used it as a reference! I have yet to see a withdrawal/apology.
Another example of spin - when you ignore Bernard's similar experience in the same Lexus Saylor was killed in. Toyota must've paid him off - pure speculation - your spin.
Sikes' silence was also bought, you've claimed. More spin.
That's a LOT of spin.
When I make a claim I'm asked for sources, links, etc.
Yet you give yourself the leeway to pretty much conclude whatever, whenever, no sources necessary.
Let's stop the double standard, shall we?
* stop making accusations of spin when you're the one doing it most * name sources for your claims * provide links to verfity those sources * let's be careful with the interpretations
On that last one, "no evidence of an error in the electronics" does not equal "evidence of human error".
Recall was announced for the intended stalling. Toyota put these ECUs in on purpose to stall cars to prevent them from SUA and save lives. Just imagine how many lives were saved!
There is a difference between spin and speculation. Speculation is when there are a lot of unanswered questions about any given incident. I don't ever recall getting involved in the EDR comparison to GM. My point from the start was based on Toyota claims right after the Saylor accident that they had not deployed readers for their EDR, because it was not tested and ready for use. Then the Sikes incident comes along and Toyota is quick to come up with a big story of how the brakes were depressed 250 times over an unspecified period of time according to their diagnosis of the Prius after it was hauled to the dealer.
So I ask again, what happened to Sikes and Bernard? Both prime witnesses in the UA saga?
I am a skeptic when it comes to evidence being lost or hidden. Toyota has a long history of doing just that. Until I see hard answers I will continue to speculate about the sources of bogus information and half truths from all entities. I just don't believe that a person like Sikes would disappear without a word.
Sikes was a hoax, and liars don't get any attention because everyone knows it's a dead end, waste of time. Neither side would call him as a witness - he has a beef with Toyota (and now vice-versa), and prosecutors know he'd have zero credibility.
Bernard already shared his story. He was unharmed (he's the one who found Neutral), so unless the Saylor family sues and Toyota calls him in as a witness, that's probably the last we hear of him.
Here's the funny part...
You're skeptical of info being hidden. OK, let's roll with that. I will be speculating, yes, please bear with me.
Toyota is scared at first and says you can't trust the Black Boxes. They're not sure what info will come, so they hedge their bets with a disclaimer.
Then NHTSA finds Sikes' black box shows evidence in their favor, so Toyota switches gears. They help NHTSA download the data only because it helps their case. No more disclaimer.
I can believe that. That's not far-fetched at all. You can even call that spin, sure.
Let's go on step further. NHTSA analyzes a bunch of them, and basically says more than half never hit the brakes, some hit throttle and brakes, and the rest pretty much only hit the brakes at the last second.
Score! It's like a get out of jail free card, and NHTSA is the one handing it to them! Bingo! Dumb luck, perhaps, but Toyota wasn't at that meeting, it was an internal NHTSA event.
Looking back, whoever at Toyota said the EDRs were not reliable probably got fired or is swimming with the fishes, if you know what I mean. Black boxes are letting them off the hook, enough that now they feel comfortable going as far as publishing the types of driver error that can make people think they have UA.
So perhaps a change of view when it comes to relying on the EDRs, sure. Not surprising, either, given what they've revealed so far.
I recall the 255 brake applications and 255 accelerator full throttles the EDR declared for Sikes' runaway acceleration.
It would be a cold day in Hades before I'd buy a toyota now. If I experienced a car problem, the toyota faithful would spend an eternity blaming the driver rather than fixing the darn car!!!!
I can go find that grad school professor who gave us 7 hours of homework after each class and run him over - and get away with murder! I have a get out of jail free card. It was SUA!
If I rear-end someone by mistake, or drive off the road, any sort of major accident - I'm off scott-free.
There's no such thing as driver error with Toyotas.
Zero liability for injuries caused, zero deductible for damage.
What other car offers that?
I smell a cheesy action movie spin off - Toyota, License to Kill.
Figures. Toyota is on a mission this year to recall every car they have produced in the last 10 years. This 1.1 million will help that effort along.
It escapes me why people buy these things. I'm sure glad I traded my Vibe in for an HHR. Got more power, smoother engine, more room and better gas mileage all in one move. And no sudden unintended acceleration, or now, sudden unintended deceleration (SUD).
1.A hypothesis alleging that the members of a coordinated group are, and/or were, secretly working together to commit illegal or wrongful actions including attempting to hide the existence of the group and its activities. In notable cases the hypothesis contradicts the mainstream explanation for historical or current events.
2.(dismissive) Hypothetical speculation that is untrue or outlandish.
Then NHTSA finds Sikes' black box shows evidence in their favor, so Toyota switches gears. They help NHTSA download the data only because it helps their case. No more disclaimer.
As long as you are debunking speculation. How did the anyone get data from the Sikes Prius, when the EDR only saves a few seconds of information when the airbags are deployed? The reported data changed several times over a few days concerning this so called analysis. I think Sikes was a low life and that made him an easy target for the Toyota PR machine. I still would bet they bought his silence as they have done with other people over the years. Yes that is unverifiable speculation.
From the Toyota investigation:
Sikes claimed to be "standing" on the brake pedal in an attempt to slow the car, but Toyota said Monday the Prius' brakes were applied 250 times during the approximately 23-minute event, for an average of less than every six seconds.
"Toyota engineers believe that it would be extremely difficult for the Prius to be driven at a continuous high speed with more than light brake-pedal pressure, and that the assertion that the vehicle could not be stopped with the brakes is fundamentally inconsistent with basic vehicle design and the investigation observations," the company concluded in its release.
Toyota's claims are totally refuted by the CHP observation during the Sike's SUA incident. I tend to believe the CHP over engineers paid to destroy a customer's credibility.
PS Bernard, being the only living survivor of the ill fated runaway ES350, would be a great catch for an ABC story. Or LA Times news interview. Has anyone heard from Bernard since he conveniently testified for the Sheriff's office?
For those that believe that toyota is an honest auto maker that has been victimized, I got a great piece of swamp land in Florida for sale.
Twice in the last 6 months, i have been in a group setting having nothing to do with Toyota, where the meeting leader took time to slam them. My point is, there is an undercurrent of discontent that pops up when you don't expect it. It's sort of like finding out your favorite athlete used PED's or has a dark side off the field.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
In fact, almost none of this was true. Virtually every aspect of Sikes's story as told to reporters makes no sense. His claim that he'd tried to yank up the accelerator could be falsified, with his help, in half a minute. And now we even have an explanation for why he'd pull such a stunt, beyond the all-American desire to have 15 minutes of fame (recall the "Balloon Boy Hoax" from October) and the aching need to be perceived as a victim.
The lack of skepticism from the beginning was stunning. I combed through haystacks of articles without producing such needles as the words "alleges" or "claims." When Sikes said he brought his car to a Toyota ( TM - news - people ) dealer two weeks earlier, recall notice in hand, and they just turned him away, the media bought that, too. In Sikes We Trust. Then the pundits deluged us with a tsunami of an anti-Toyota sanctimony.
Where to begin?
Well, the patrol car didn't slow down the Prius; the bumpers never touched. The officers used a loudspeaker to tell Sikes to use the brakes and emergency brake together. He did; the car slowed to about 55 mph. Sikes turned off the engine and coasted to a halt. He stopped the car on his own.
There wasn't anything wrong with the transmission or the Prius engine button either.
Over a 23-minute period the 911 dispatcher repeatedly pleaded with Sikes to shift into neutral. He simply refused and then essentially stopped talking to her except to say that he thought he could smell his brakes burning.
"I thought about" shifting into neutral, Sikes said at a televised press conference the day after the incident. But "I had never played with this kind of a transmission, especially when you're driving and I was actually afraid to do that." Sikes, who has driven the car for two years, also said "I figured if I knocked it over [the gear knob] the car might flip."
He told CNN, "I was afraid to try to [reach] over there and put it in neutral. I was holding onto the steering wheel with both hands--94 miles an hour in a Toyota Prius is fast." Yet for much of the ride he had a phone in one hand. And this is especially interesting: Most gear shifts are on the console, requiring the hand to drop to shift. But, as this image shows, in the 2008 Prius it's located on the dash within inches of the steering wheel precisely to allow shifting without the hand leaving the wheel. I sat in one and did it easily. Another unique feature of the shift is that it's amazingly simple, with only forward, reverse, neutral and "B." The express purpose of "B" is to slow the car while preserving the brakes, as in a steep descent. Sikes actually could have shifted into two different gears.
Moreover, why would Sikes describe shifting gears as somehow "playing with the transmission." And apparently he's never shifted while the vehicle was moving and thought somehow a gear shift could flip his car.
The dispatcher also pleaded with him repeatedly to hit the ignition button. Again, he says he was simply afraid to.
Early in the press conference he said it was because "There was too much traffic to just shut the car off. You know, turn off the vehicle and get hit in the rear." But that's always true when you slow down; just make sure nobody's right behind you. Later he switched gears, pun not intended, saying he was afraid the steering wheel and wheels would lock up.
Then there are the brakes.
Sikes said his brakes had just been checked out a few weeks earlier, but during the incident he "was laying on the brakes. It was not slowing down."
Others have made similar claims, so Car & Driver magazine recently put them to the test. They found a V-6 Camry at full throttle could be stopped at 435 feet. But to really test the claim, they used a powerful 540-horsepower supercharged Roush Stage 3 Mustang. It took 903 feet, but stop it did. By comparison the Prius can only muster 110 anemic ponies. Further, as Newton's Second Law reminds us, weight is inherently a factor in slowing a moving object. The Prius weighs about two-thirds of what the Roush does.
But while these other cars were brought to full stop, Sikes says he couldn't even reduce his speed. A video on the Web also demonstrates a 2008 Prius easily slowed to a stop with the accelerator fully depressed.
An assisting officer said he saw Sikes apply the brakes and smelled them. But of course that was only when he drew close to the vehicle. The officer doesn't know what Sikes was doing before he arrived on the scene. Now here's the potential smoking gun: Sikes told the reporters that "I was reaching down and trying to pull up on the gas pedal. It didn't move at all; it was stationary." That's awfully daring for somebody who insisted he didn't even want to take a hand off his steering wheel, notwithstanding that he did so to hold his phone.
I tried to imitate Sikes' alleged effort in a 2008 Prius. From the front bottom of the steering wheel to the front bottom of the accelerator in up position it's 28.5 inches; while fully deployed it's 2.5 inches farther away. I have average-length arms (33-inch shirt sleeve) and no gut. But even though the steering wheel was as flush to the dashboard as it goes, it prevented me from all but touching the accelerator in the up position.
To reach behind a deployed accelerator and get any kind of a grip you'd have to add at least three more inches. In my case, it required squashing my face against the radio and completely removing my eyes from the road. Only the tallest men could physically do what Sikes claimed he did and no press accounts refer his being exceptionally tall. But to settle this issue (albeit not the others), Sikes would simply have to sit in his Prius and show he could reach behind the pedal while it was fully depressed. Why has nobody asked him to do so? Moreover, even for an orangutan it would be an incredibly awkward move for somebody afraid to pop a car into neutral or hit the ignition button.
Toyota issues recall of 1.33 million Corollas, Matrixes to address possible engine stalling
Toyota recalled 1.33 million Corolla sedans and Matrix hatchbacks in the U.S. and Canada Thursday because their engines may stall, the latest in a string of quality problems at the Japanese automaker.
The recall covers vehicles from the 2005-2008 model years sold in the U.S. and Canada. Three accidents and one minor injury have been reported, though Toyota said a link to the engine issue has not been confirmed.
Toyota's latest recall is one of its largest since it began recalling cars and trucks last October. The automaker has now recalled more than 10 million vehicles worldwide for problems that run from faulty gas pedals and floor mats that can trap accelerators, to problems with its Prius hybrid.
Toyota said Corollas and Matrixes equipped with 1ZZ-FE engines may contain a defective engine control module, the computer that regulates the performance of the engine. In some cases, a crack may develop on the module's circuit board, which could prevent the engine from starting or could cause harsh shifting or an engine stall.
Separately, General Motors Co. is recalling 200,000 Pontiac Vibes in North America due to the same problem, GM spokesman Alan Adler said. The Vibe is similar to the Matrix and was built under a joint venture between Toyota and GM at a now-closed factory in Fremont, Calif.
Both automakers said they will replace the engine control modules on the recalled vehicles at no charge. The companies will begin mailing notifications to owners of the affected vehicles in mid-September.
The engine control module with the possible defect was manufactured by Delphi Corp., a large auto parts supplier headquartered in Troy, Mich., according to documents filed with federal regulators.
The automaker has been more aggressive in its pace of recalls in recent months. Its last recall was in late July, when the automaker said it would fix half a million cars, mostly Toyota Avalon sedans, over a steering issue.
U.S. regulators hit Toyota with a $16.4 million fine earlier this year for failing to promptly tell the government about its car defects. Toyota has been working to overhaul its quality controls and respond more aggressively to customer complaints in the fallout of its recall crisis.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has been investigating the possibility of engine stalling in the Corolla and Matrix models since late November. On Tuesday, the traffic safety agency said it had intensified its investigation.
NHTSA spokeswoman Olivia Alair said Thursday that the probe is ongoing. Toyota spokesman John Hanson said the automaker is cooperating with the safety agency on the probe. He said it was the automaker's decision to issue the recall, adding it was not pressured by NHTSA to do so.
U.S.-traded shares in Toyota Motor Corp. fell 34 cents to $68.72.
I have never said that Sikes story did not have holes in it. I would base my observation on two important points. If as toyota says he hit his brakes 250+ times over the 23 minute ordeal, why didn't the CHP report seeing him slow down and speed up? He followed him for miles. A Border Patrolman was also involved and has the same story.
And the last if not the most important point. Where is Sikes now? I don't believe for a minute he would go down that easy with the CHP and paramedics on his side. Toyota bought his silence. And no way to prove it. That is the way it works when your silence is bought, you shut up or lose the money. He never appeared again after the initial news interview. Toyota did not want him on the air again. He would have been another runaway story like the one Congress listened to. And people believed that lady. That was a big negative for toyota to overcome.
1.A hypothesis alleging that the members of a coordinated group are, and/or were, secretly working together to commit illegal or wrongful actions including attempting to hide the existence of the group and its activities. In notable cases the hypothesis contradicts the mainstream explanation for historical or current events.
2.(dismissive) Hypothetical speculation that is untrue or outlandish.
Comments
Perhaps they didn't get the memo.
here in this forum many toyota fans tried so hard to persuade us all that toyota is still the best
Who said that? Link and post # please?
Your RANTS are difficult to READ because you put CAPS in a lot of STRANGE places.
What surprised me is that ... you are surprised. We've seen all this before, with all the big manufacturers. Cost cutting is rampant in the industry, Toyota didn't pioneer it, not by a long shot.
That Watanabe refuses to resign.
That current Sienna owners sadly report that their current Sienna is better than the 2011.
But to say that any of the Big 3 hasn't done much of the same is naive, to say the least.
There are too many examples to list, I won't even bother. Anyone who thinks GM or Ford or Chrysler has not had major strokes of cost cutting is drinking the Kool-Aid at the dealerships.
Even the company that set the gold standard for product reliability, Johnson and Johnson (Tylenol) flubbed with its most recent product problem issue.
It would appear that many (if not almost all) large public companies have thrown everything to the wind in search of the almighty profit. It certainly isn't just foreign companies.
tee yikes eye ya right?
I sure wish the Mets had gotten him but they didn't even try. At least the Sox gave it a go. He's one of a handful of the best players in MLB at the moment. Well, except in April.
Welcome to the club, VW.
Interesting as there's a certain billionaire that bought a chunk of that company.
The government is taking the next step in its investigation into complaints of stalled engines on Toyota Corolla sedans and Matrix hatchbacks.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has upgraded its investigation to an "engineering analysis," the Associated Press. There are two possible explanations for the stalling: Improper coating on circuit boards and a crack in the surface of a glass coating. Both could have happened when the cars were being made.
The new second-stage investigation covers 1.8 million Corolla and Matrix cars from model years 2005 to 2007. It follows the preliminary probe that began in December, which covered the 2006 model year Corollas and Matrixes. NHTSA has received 163 complaints about stalling engines.
Corolla is one of the nation's best selling sedans.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/08/nhtsa-steps-up-stal- ling-probe-of-toyota-corolla-matrix/1
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/autos/feds-step-up-probe-into-stalling-toyota-- vehicles/19605654/
Pontiac may be gone, but GM is still here, and that's who the selling agent was/is.
As for the recalls, if they do happen, the same warranty provider (Chevrolet, Buick, ???) would no doubt also be the one to take charge of the recalls.
I can't imagine the Vibe would be left out, as I doubt they used different parts that are currently under the microscope (but its possible that they may have).
These folks do have an upside, though... At least they don't have to worry about a runaway vehicle!
Towaway, maybe....
August is bad news - JDP is forecasting an overall drop of 15% in auto sales.
Sometimes, we all tend to overlook the obvious....LOL!
August is bad news - JDP is forecasting an overall drop of 15% in auto sales.
Just curious .... What was their reasoning? Isn't August usually a good sales month, with dealers wanting to move inventory for the next year model line-up?
Everyone's on vacation in August, so few are buying. I guess the silver lining is it's not an important month, so who cares if it's down?
LOL!
In the end, if the cars sell, I doubt its significant in the grand scheme whether the sale is in August or September. So, I agree with your assessment.
there is no legal obligation to fix them but they will probably get fixed as a 'good will' gesture.
From...http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-05-31-gm-bankruptcy-warranty-que- - - stions_N.htm
Q: Will my car's warranty still be honored?
A: Yes, and extended warranties as well, says Steve Harris, General Motors' vice president of global communications. In addition to the company's backing, they have the federal government standing behind them. The government's Warranty Commitment Plan was announced in March to reassure buyers of General Motors and Chrysler vehicles that warranty claims would be honored during the companies' restructuring.
In addition... From ...http://www.ehow.com/about_5317966_gm-warranty-information.html
New GM Warranty
•Purchase a new car or truck, and GM will offer a fully transferable 100,000 mile/five-year powertrain limited warranty covering the major components of the drive line. This includes the engine, transmission, transfer case and axles. For repairs covered under warranty, your dealer will offer you free transportation. If no transportation option is available, GM will reimburse you for travel expenses incurred from the warranty repair. Also standard with the warranty is free 24-hour roadside assistance, including lockout assistance, gasoline, flat tire changing and towing.
Old GM Warranty
•If you purchased a GM car or truck before or during the bankruptcy reorganization process, the new GM will honor those warranty commitments. In March 2009, the government's Warranty Commitment Plan was announced to restore confidence to GM owners and buyers. In a June 5, 2009, issue of USA Today, Steve Harris, General Motors' vice president of global communications, reassured consumers that their existing GM vehicle warranty will continue to have the company's full backing and reaffirmed the support of the federal government.
Unless the judge overseeing the restructuring in a C 11 relieves a company of its obligation, then as I understand it, the obligation stays intact.
C 7 is quite different.
It would be bad business to leave those buyers holding the bag.
My dealership is on the third owner since I bought my Sequoia in 2007. Either tired of fixing Toyota problems or fed up with Toyota corporate.
http://www.toyotadealerfrauds.com/index.htm
So toyota drivers are indeed a special breed eh ? First they keep on pressing on the wrong pedal and are so slow to correct that they slam into all kinds of objects, killing themselves at times. Now, they are so paranoid of pressing the wrong pedal that they now often forgot or refuse / hesitate to press any pedal, thus they lose power. Then they have the guts to complain its stalling !
Poor toyota ! To have customers like these ! They make excellent cars yet their customers just don't know how to use their cars properly !!
No matter what, its always toyota driver's fault. toyota is the gold standard of the American automotive industry, how can they make engines like that ? It cannot be.
And since toyota's market share of the US market is quite big, I guess this means a lot of American drivers really have problems with pressing the right pedal, correcting, braking at the appropriate time !
What's wrong with the American driving schools ?
So toyota wants their cake and eat it too !!! They will twist and turn to their advantage. And consumer safety is utterly ignored. So folks who still thinks its mainly toyota driver's error, WATCH OUT ! If those EDRs are as unreliable as toyotas, then its garbage in - garbage out. NHTSA can hardly issue responsible statements based on these problematic EDRs !!
http://www.twincities.com/national/ci_15833416?source=rss
That is the reason the leaked info from paid informants at the NHTSA was such a joke. For the NHTSA and Toyota to build their defense on a device that was not good enough to depend on last October, is a travesty.
Toyota seems to believe its customers are "special" - as in riding the short bus "special." They believe their customers are too mentally-challenged to drive every time there's a SUA incident or this stalling issue.
Yes, they are.
Remember your link to grandma's story about having both hands on the wheel yet shifting gears at the same time.
Clearly grandma had 3 arms, LOL!
Special breed, indeed.
You love conspiracy theories.
Remember, folks, there were a few that were deemed "inconclusive".
You're all forgetting that.
You're all forgetting that.
The first leaked report claimed ALL cases were a result of human error. Then a week or so later after NHTSA said it was not close to done with the investigation. Some other bunch had a break down of the accidents. ALL based on data from EDR data that Toyota claims is not ready for general use. So why is it being used to condemn drivers? Sounds to me like a lot of lazy investigation by NHTSA, and spin by Toyota PR people.
I have a GM purchased via 'the old GM' and have had warranty work done after C11. No one at the dealership batted an eye.
I have a GM purchased via 'the old GM' and have had warranty work done after C11. No one at the dealership batted an eye.
At the moment, anyway, its a moot point.
Even if GM decided to attempt to revoke the prior warranties, the government owns roughly 61% of GM, which, in turn, means it controls the board of the company.
And, whoever controls the board of directors controls the company.
So, what the government wants, the government will get.
And, its clear to me (and anyone else that is even remotely familiar with this issue) that the government wants GM to honor those warranties.
Now, if someone has proof that the government doesn't want GM to maintain those pre-BR warranties, I'd love to see it;
That seems more like a biased interpretation. I seem to recall claims of "no evidence", which is very different than claiming 100% human error. Nice spin, though!
So why is it being used to condemn drivers? Sounds to me like a lot of lazy investigation by NHTSA, and spin by Toyota PR people.
In one breath you say Toyota stays quiet, now you say it's PR spin. Well, which is it? Are they quiet, or is it spin? The latest report came straight from NHTSA in an internal meeting, Toyota was not even involved. The only spin was/is yours. Sharon even pointed out your mistake.
Spin is when a Chevy's EDR makes an error and you conclude all Toyotas do the same. OK, it wasn't you who originally said that, but you quoted that person and even used it as a reference! I have yet to see a withdrawal/apology.
Another example of spin - when you ignore Bernard's similar experience in the same Lexus Saylor was killed in. Toyota must've paid him off - pure speculation - your spin.
Sikes' silence was also bought, you've claimed. More spin.
That's a LOT of spin.
When I make a claim I'm asked for sources, links, etc.
Yet you give yourself the leeway to pretty much conclude whatever, whenever, no sources necessary.
Let's stop the double standard, shall we?
* stop making accusations of spin when you're the one doing it most
* name sources for your claims
* provide links to verfity those sources
* let's be careful with the interpretations
On that last one, "no evidence of an error in the electronics" does not equal "evidence of human error".
The recalled CTS pedals, for instance.
:P
There is a difference between spin and speculation. Speculation is when there are a lot of unanswered questions about any given incident. I don't ever recall getting involved in the EDR comparison to GM. My point from the start was based on Toyota claims right after the Saylor accident that they had not deployed readers for their EDR, because it was not tested and ready for use. Then the Sikes incident comes along and Toyota is quick to come up with a big story of how the brakes were depressed 250 times over an unspecified period of time according to their diagnosis of the Prius after it was hauled to the dealer.
So I ask again, what happened to Sikes and Bernard? Both prime witnesses in the UA saga?
I am a skeptic when it comes to evidence being lost or hidden. Toyota has a long history of doing just that. Until I see hard answers I will continue to speculate about the sources of bogus information and half truths from all entities. I just don't believe that a person like Sikes would disappear without a word.
Unless?$?$
Bernard already shared his story. He was unharmed (he's the one who found Neutral), so unless the Saylor family sues and Toyota calls him in as a witness, that's probably the last we hear of him.
Here's the funny part...
You're skeptical of info being hidden. OK, let's roll with that. I will be speculating, yes, please bear with me.
Toyota is scared at first and says you can't trust the Black Boxes. They're not sure what info will come, so they hedge their bets with a disclaimer.
Then NHTSA finds Sikes' black box shows evidence in their favor, so Toyota switches gears. They help NHTSA download the data only because it helps their case. No more disclaimer.
I can believe that. That's not far-fetched at all. You can even call that spin, sure.
Let's go on step further. NHTSA analyzes a bunch of them, and basically says more than half never hit the brakes, some hit throttle and brakes, and the rest pretty much only hit the brakes at the last second.
Score! It's like a get out of jail free card, and NHTSA is the one handing it to them! Bingo! Dumb luck, perhaps, but Toyota wasn't at that meeting, it was an internal NHTSA event.
Looking back, whoever at Toyota said the EDRs were not reliable probably got fired or is swimming with the fishes, if you know what I mean. Black boxes are letting them off the hook, enough that now they feel comfortable going as far as publishing the types of driver error that can make people think they have UA.
So perhaps a change of view when it comes to relying on the EDRs, sure. Not surprising, either, given what they've revealed so far.
For the Corollas and Matrixes, err, Matrices?
It would be a cold day in Hades before I'd buy a toyota now. If I experienced a car problem, the toyota faithful would spend an eternity blaming the driver rather than fixing the darn car!!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The opposite is true.
I can go find that grad school professor who gave us 7 hours of homework after each class and run him over - and get away with murder! I have a get out of jail free card. It was SUA!
If I rear-end someone by mistake, or drive off the road, any sort of major accident - I'm off scott-free.
There's no such thing as driver error with Toyotas.
Zero liability for injuries caused, zero deductible for damage.
What other car offers that?
I smell a cheesy action movie spin off - Toyota, License to Kill.
It escapes me why people buy these things. I'm sure glad I traded my Vibe in for an HHR. Got more power, smoother engine, more room and better gas mileage all in one move. And no sudden unintended acceleration, or now, sudden unintended deceleration (SUD).
Conspiracy theory (plural conspiracy theories)
1.A hypothesis alleging that the members of a coordinated group are, and/or were, secretly working together to commit illegal or wrongful actions including attempting to hide the existence of the group and its activities. In notable cases the hypothesis contradicts the mainstream explanation for historical or current events.
2.(dismissive) Hypothetical speculation that is untrue or outlandish.
As long as you are debunking speculation. How did the anyone get data from the Sikes Prius, when the EDR only saves a few seconds of information when the airbags are deployed? The reported data changed several times over a few days concerning this so called analysis. I think Sikes was a low life and that made him an easy target for the Toyota PR machine. I still would bet they bought his silence as they have done with other people over the years. Yes that is unverifiable speculation.
From the Toyota investigation:
Sikes claimed to be "standing" on the brake pedal in an attempt to slow the car, but Toyota said Monday the Prius' brakes were applied 250 times during the approximately 23-minute event, for an average of less than every six seconds.
"Toyota engineers believe that it would be extremely difficult for the Prius to be driven at a continuous high speed with more than light brake-pedal pressure, and that the assertion that the vehicle could not be stopped with the brakes is fundamentally inconsistent with basic vehicle design and the investigation observations," the company concluded in its release.
Toyota's claims are totally refuted by the CHP observation during the Sike's SUA incident. I tend to believe the CHP over engineers paid to destroy a customer's credibility.
http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/03/toyota-on-sikes-runaway-prius-were-not-buyin- g-it.html
PS
Bernard, being the only living survivor of the ill fated runaway ES350, would be a great catch for an ABC story. Or LA Times news interview. Has anyone heard from Bernard since he conveniently testified for the Sheriff's office?
For those that believe that toyota is an honest auto maker that has been victimized, I got a great piece of swamp land in Florida for sale.
My point is, there is an undercurrent of discontent that pops up when you don't expect it. It's sort of like finding out your favorite athlete used PED's or has a dark side off the field.
Sikes = HOAX - NO DOUBT ABOUT IT
In fact, almost none of this was true. Virtually every aspect of Sikes's story as told to reporters makes no sense. His claim that he'd tried to yank up the accelerator could be falsified, with his help, in half a minute. And now we even have an explanation for why he'd pull such a stunt, beyond the all-American desire to have 15 minutes of fame (recall the "Balloon Boy Hoax" from October) and the aching need to be perceived as a victim.
The lack of skepticism from the beginning was stunning. I combed through haystacks of articles without producing such needles as the words "alleges" or "claims." When Sikes said he brought his car to a Toyota ( TM - news - people ) dealer two weeks earlier, recall notice in hand, and they just turned him away, the media bought that, too. In Sikes We Trust. Then the pundits deluged us with a tsunami of an anti-Toyota sanctimony.
Where to begin?
Well, the patrol car didn't slow down the Prius; the bumpers never touched. The officers used a loudspeaker to tell Sikes to use the brakes and emergency brake together. He did; the car slowed to about 55 mph. Sikes turned off the engine and coasted to a halt. He stopped the car on his own.
There wasn't anything wrong with the transmission or the Prius engine button either.
Over a 23-minute period the 911 dispatcher repeatedly pleaded with Sikes to shift into neutral. He simply refused and then essentially stopped talking to her except to say that he thought he could smell his brakes burning.
"I thought about" shifting into neutral, Sikes said at a televised press conference the day after the incident. But "I had never played with this kind of a transmission, especially when you're driving and I was actually afraid to do that." Sikes, who has driven the car for two years, also said "I figured if I knocked it over [the gear knob] the car might flip."
He told CNN, "I was afraid to try to [reach] over there and put it in neutral. I was holding onto the steering wheel with both hands--94 miles an hour in a Toyota Prius is fast." Yet for much of the ride he had a phone in one hand. And this is especially interesting: Most gear shifts are on the console, requiring the hand to drop to shift. But, as this image shows, in the 2008 Prius it's located on the dash within inches of the steering wheel precisely to allow shifting without the hand leaving the wheel. I sat in one and did it easily. Another unique feature of the shift is that it's amazingly simple, with only forward, reverse, neutral and "B." The express purpose of "B" is to slow the car while preserving the brakes, as in a steep descent. Sikes actually could have shifted into two different gears.
Moreover, why would Sikes describe shifting gears as somehow "playing with the transmission." And apparently he's never shifted while the vehicle was moving and thought somehow a gear shift could flip his car.
The dispatcher also pleaded with him repeatedly to hit the ignition button. Again, he says he was simply afraid to.
Early in the press conference he said it was because "There was too much traffic to just shut the car off. You know, turn off the vehicle and get hit in the rear." But that's always true when you slow down; just make sure nobody's right behind you. Later he switched gears, pun not intended, saying he was afraid the steering wheel and wheels would lock up.
Then there are the brakes.
Sikes said his brakes had just been checked out a few weeks earlier, but during the incident he "was laying on the brakes. It was not slowing down."
Others have made similar claims, so Car & Driver magazine recently put them to the test. They found a V-6 Camry at full throttle could be stopped at 435 feet. But to really test the claim, they used a powerful 540-horsepower supercharged Roush Stage 3 Mustang. It took 903 feet, but stop it did. By comparison the Prius can only muster 110 anemic ponies. Further, as Newton's Second Law reminds us, weight is inherently a factor in slowing a moving object. The Prius weighs about two-thirds of what the Roush does.
But while these other cars were brought to full stop, Sikes says he couldn't even reduce his speed. A video on the Web also demonstrates a 2008 Prius easily slowed to a stop with the accelerator fully depressed.
An assisting officer said he saw Sikes apply the brakes and smelled them. But of course that was only when he drew close to the vehicle. The officer doesn't know what Sikes was doing before he arrived on the scene.
Now here's the potential smoking gun: Sikes told the reporters that "I was reaching down and trying to pull up on the gas pedal. It didn't move at all; it was stationary." That's awfully daring for somebody who insisted he didn't even want to take a hand off his steering wheel, notwithstanding that he did so to hold his phone.
I tried to imitate Sikes' alleged effort in a 2008 Prius. From the front bottom of the steering wheel to the front bottom of the accelerator in up position it's 28.5 inches; while fully deployed it's 2.5 inches farther away. I have average-length arms (33-inch shirt sleeve) and no gut. But even though the steering wheel was as flush to the dashboard as it goes, it prevented me from all but touching the accelerator in the up position.
To reach behind a deployed accelerator and get any kind of a grip you'd have to add at least three more inches. In my case, it required squashing my face against the radio and completely removing my eyes from the road. Only the tallest men could physically do what Sikes claimed he did and no press accounts refer his being exceptionally tall. But to settle this issue (albeit not the others), Sikes would simply have to sit in his Prius and show he could reach behind the pedal while it was fully depressed. Why has nobody asked him to do so? Moreover, even for an orangutan it would be an incredibly awkward move for somebody afraid to pop a car into neutral or hit the ignition button.
Toyota recalled 1.33 million Corolla sedans and Matrix hatchbacks in the U.S. and Canada Thursday because their engines may stall, the latest in a string of quality problems at the Japanese automaker.
The recall covers vehicles from the 2005-2008 model years sold in the U.S. and Canada. Three accidents and one minor injury have been reported, though Toyota said a link to the engine issue has not been confirmed.
Toyota's latest recall is one of its largest since it began recalling cars and trucks last October. The automaker has now recalled more than 10 million vehicles worldwide for problems that run from faulty gas pedals and floor mats that can trap accelerators, to problems with its Prius hybrid.
Toyota said Corollas and Matrixes equipped with 1ZZ-FE engines may contain a defective engine control module, the computer that regulates the performance of the engine. In some cases, a crack may develop on the module's circuit board, which could prevent the engine from starting or could cause harsh shifting or an engine stall.
Separately, General Motors Co. is recalling 200,000 Pontiac Vibes in North America due to the same problem, GM spokesman Alan Adler said. The Vibe is similar to the Matrix and was built under a joint venture between Toyota and GM at a now-closed factory in Fremont, Calif.
Both automakers said they will replace the engine control modules on the recalled vehicles at no charge. The companies will begin mailing notifications to owners of the affected vehicles in mid-September.
The engine control module with the possible defect was manufactured by Delphi Corp., a large auto parts supplier headquartered in Troy, Mich., according to documents filed with federal regulators.
The automaker has been more aggressive in its pace of recalls in recent months. Its last recall was in late July, when the automaker said it would fix half a million cars, mostly Toyota Avalon sedans, over a steering issue.
U.S. regulators hit Toyota with a $16.4 million fine earlier this year for failing to promptly tell the government about its car defects. Toyota has been working to overhaul its quality controls and respond more aggressively to customer complaints in the fallout of its recall crisis.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has been investigating the possibility of engine stalling in the Corolla and Matrix models since late November. On Tuesday, the traffic safety agency said it had intensified its investigation.
NHTSA spokeswoman Olivia Alair said Thursday that the probe is ongoing. Toyota spokesman John Hanson said the automaker is cooperating with the safety agency on the probe. He said it was the automaker's decision to issue the recall, adding it was not pressured by NHTSA to do so.
U.S.-traded shares in Toyota Motor Corp. fell 34 cents to $68.72.
And the last if not the most important point. Where is Sikes now? I don't believe for a minute he would go down that easy with the CHP and paramedics on his side. Toyota bought his silence. And no way to prove it. That is the way it works when your silence is bought, you shut up or lose the money. He never appeared again after the initial news interview. Toyota did not want him on the air again. He would have been another runaway story like the one Congress listened to. And people believed that lady. That was a big negative for toyota to overcome.
Conspiracy theory (plural conspiracy theories)
1.A hypothesis alleging that the members of a coordinated group are, and/or were, secretly working together to commit illegal or wrongful actions including attempting to hide the existence of the group and its activities. In notable cases the hypothesis contradicts the mainstream explanation for historical or current events.
2.(dismissive) Hypothetical speculation that is untrue or outlandish.
http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/07/20/will-toyota-be-number-one-in-criminal-v- iolations-under-the-tread-act/
http://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-sudden-unintended-acceleration/toyota-sua-r- eal-stories/