Another thing is if we get attached to our vehicles, we overlook certain flaws.
I was with a friend yesterday in his Chevy pickup and he said nothing ever broke on it, original engine and trans after 160k miles. Then I asked him to turn on the A/C and he said we had to use the windows because it was ... broken. :confuse:
It's still been a good truck for him, though. His family-owned construction company used to buy Fords, then Chevys, and now they buy Chevys and Toyotas. I asked what truck he would choose as a replacement and he's torn between Chevy and Toyota. He knows about the recalls and all, but he said "they still make good cars".
Could even be somewhere inbetween. I've seen cases where an ECU is reprogrammed, but they still remove it from the car, install a new or refurbished one, then send the original back to be re-programmed and used in another car.
So Biller is back in the picture. I would bet that Toyota wishes he would just go away. I guess they did not give him a big enough severance package. He does have it in for Toyota. The question, is it legitimate?
More news, this time, look how BRUTAL toyota's cost cutting could be. This time, its LOUSY, MUSHY, WEAK BRAKES on YOUNG toyota Fortuners, a medium sized SUV.
From the Fortuner complaints. They sound like many toyota buyers here who feel the product is perfect and invincible. I wonder if the brake problems on the Fortuner are related to the comments from SUA sufferers that the "brakes didn't work"?
>Guys I wrote about the Fortuner being a pathetic product - months ago - and people still disagree... the Fortuner is a BAD product - and what toyota has done is mated a new looking body to a OLD Engine and frame of a 10 Year OLD HILUX Truck - which itself was a faliure as compared to other products in its category. People rushed to Toyota Dealers with 1 lacs rupee drafts to book this car and we Indians behave as if the sky is going to fall tomorrow - so we must act like cheapsters today itself.
>I agree to it, I just escaped to death with my family on jaipur highway. The break pedal simply sinks in and the break fails. The same was communicated to me when i asked the service manager about this. I just wonder how can this car clear the quality control tests. My mobile no is 9311190009. You wont believe that the Mr. Kapil from M/S Uttam toyota Ghaziabad told me that the car seriously have this problem and solution to this is being searcheed by the co.. I dont want to keep this car any more.
Not defending Toyota (or any other company), but EVERY manufacturer has complaints. None of the complaints above are quantitative (they are primarily opinion), so I don't give them much creedence (again, for any make or model).
One can find very similar complaints on Edmunds regarding GM vehicles and brakes.
Now, if 5% or more (I'll even go as low as 2%) vehicle owners complain, then you may indeed have a real issue. But, in modern vehicle production quantities, that's a lot of complaints...
A great example is Nissan and it's CVT. Many complain about its feel and function, but that doesn't mean that they are defective.... Its just different.
All it tells me is that there are some unhappy owners with their vehicles, along with the possibility that some vehicles may or may not have certain issues/problems.
In all fairness. The Indian vehicle market is much different than the US. They are selling cars for $2000. You don't get much for that. And I am sure toyota is selling to that market.
That said. The Brakes on my 2007 Sequoia are better than the brakes were on my 1998 Suburban. They are not as good as the brakes on my 2008 Nissan Frontier. Toyota is not known for great brakes. They are just slightly better than Honda. And that is how the game is played.
>The Indian vehicle market is much different than the US. They are selling cars for $2000. You don't get much for that. And I am sure toyota is selling to that market
But toyota is the perfect car manufacturing company. They have the highest reliability of any. Why would they endanger people's lives?
You read it on the internet, so it must be true, right?
I told you ben66 would only come back when he found more bad news for Toyota, looks like he even had to go international to find the sequel to the 3-armed Grandma (note he dropped that topic and could not muster a reply).
many toyota buyers here who feel the product is perfect and invincible
Who said that? Name names, please.
You guys keep referring to this mythical Toyota Fanboy, who is he? I'm sure there's a 16 year old somewhere who inherited a Corolla S from his mom and thinks it's a sports car because it has a rear spoiler (duh). But they're rare, and I don't see anyone like that here on Edmunds.
Noone car is perfect, of course not. Noone here made that claim.
HILUX Truck - which itself was a faliure as compared to other products in its category
That is pure and simple the dumbest statement I have ever read. The Hilux is legendary for the opposite reason. A failure? If you believe that, hang up your auto enthusiast shoes and retire from posting on Edmunds.
Anyone else remember the Top Gear episode with the Hilux that would not die? They blew up a high rise with the Hilux on top and when they removed it from the rubble, IT STILL RAN! That was epic. That truck hangs in their studio to this day.
I have to agree on the Hi-Lux. The diesel version is the truck the World outside the USA depends on for work. I would love to have one. The Tacoma version we get is not in the same league. It is a foo foo truck for the soft Americans. Did we ever get the same Hi-Lux here in the US, that is sold all over the World?
Did we ever get the same Hi-Lux here in the US, that is sold all over the World?
Why would they want to sell something like that here? No one would have to buy another for at least 20 years. They would go bankrupt waiting for new buyers.
No one would have to buy another for at least 20 years. They would go bankrupt waiting for new buyers.
What you are saying has more truth than fiction. A missionary friend uses a 1983 Toyota PU down in Mexico. The roads he crawls over into the Copper Canyon region are worse than just horrible. The engine is past 300k miles. He literally goes on prayer.
Toyota bleeding the most of the 3 top brands. GM second and Ford the least. Toyota down 34% GM down 25% Ford down 11%
One exception was Chrysler Group LLC, which saw sales rise more than expected.
Chrysler sales rose 7 percent to 99,611 compared to last August, the company said. It’s the Auburn Hills, Michigan-based automaker’s fifth-straight month of year-over-year sales increases.
But toyota is the perfect car manufacturing company. They have the highest reliability of any. Why would they endanger people's lives?
Go take a vacation outside the US to open up your mind. Every company builds cars to follow local market requirement to be competitive. VW, GM build cars that never meet US safety requirements all over the world. In India, Toyota Fortuner is way safer than riding a scooter, or driving a Tata Nano.
Just keep in mind, and I had forgotten about this till I was reading some of the sales figures today, that at this time last year was the cash for clunkers program and Toyota was the biggest sale maker from that program of all the auto manufacturers and since we don't have that program this year, most car makers saw a decrease in sales compared to last year, especially for Toyota since they had the most sales from the cash for clunkers program and thus more to lose between Aug 2010 and Aug 2009.
Just a thought I was thinking about when reading through the numbers today.
What are the specs of the Hi-Lux? I bet it doesn't have all that emmissions and safety BS as well as all the "luxury" fru-fru of the Tacoma. Isn't the Hi-Lux the preferred conveyance of the Taliban? It probably would sell well here for those who want a basic no-nonsense truck.
That is exactly what the HiLux is. A dependable no nonsense truck. The kind that millions of working people need. With the diesel 4 cylinder they get 45 MPG or better. Nothing sold in the USA compares. We get nothing but foo foo trucks. Of course there are no jobs so that is all we need. :sick:
I think, though I'm not sure, that the Tacoma shares some basic parts with the Hilux pickup, but only some, and the character of the vehicles is very, very different.
The Hilux SW4 (station wagon 4wd) is similarly somewhat related to the previous 4Runner platform, though it's been updated and went in a different direction.
Americans want soft and comfy (quiet touring tires please), 3rd world markets want tough and durable (semi-knobby tires will do). So they've drifted apart. Brazil gets Hilux pickups and Hilux SW4 and they are legendary. A diesel SW4 model sells for the equivalent of US$100,000. No kidding. Taxes are killer. The kicker - it still sells well.
Top Gear took a modified one to the North Pole, if you saw that episode. It's a far cry from our manicure-friendly 4Runner today.
In the USA, before Toyota used the Tacoma name their compact pickup had live axles front and rear, since then the Taco got an indy front to appease the smooth-ride-loving American buyer. Toyota figured contractors would buy a full-size pickup anyway.
Basically, Gary is absolutely, 100% correct. USA gets a comfy light-duty version of the truck, while 3rd world markets get the real deal.
Even bigger Toyota trucks are that way. The Lexus GX is a Land Cruiser Prado in other markets. Lexus LX = Land Cruiser, but we get both anyway.
My dad ran a whole fleet of trucks for his work in both Suriname and Belize. They used to use Land Rovers until they realized it cost half as much to operate a fleet of Toyotas. He had a Land Cruiser that was totally sweet:
* diesel engine * MANUAL transmission (imagine that selling in the USA!!!) * water-proof vinyl seats * steel wheels that don't break when you hit rocks/potholes off road * full-fledged knobby off road tires
This is from the factory.
He basically ordered vehicles from the UN catalog.
The kicker? In the early 90s, he could get a Land Cruiser equipped in that manner for about US$25,000.
Of course that's tax exempt, but it's amazing how much Toyota could offer for so little.
Us? We get a leather-lined Lexus LX for about $76 grand for suburban housewives to drive to the mall.
at this time last year was the cash for clunkers program and Toyota was the biggest sale maker from that program of all the auto manufacturers and since we don't have that program this year, most car makers saw a decrease in sales compared to last year, especially for Toyota
That about sums it up.
Folks here pointed out earlier that Toyota was one of the biggest beneficiaries of C4C since they sold many fuel-efficient models that would qualify for the program. I bet they sold less than half as many Priuses (Prii?).
Peeking at the sales chart, Suzuki got clobbered again, down 68%. Ouch. Kizashi just won a major satisfaction award, not just for its class but as the most satisfying car overall. What gives? Invisible marketing?
Bright spot was Chrysler, up 7%. I bet that's for the opposite reason Toyota dropped - Chrysler is weak in the small/efficient car categories and got few C4C sales. Hence why Fiat will sell their own small cars in Chrysler dealerships.
Looking at the bigger picture, the market is down 21% and that's not good. Unemployment numbers also look bad.
If Toyota would build their PU trucks in Brazil they would sell for a lot less. The Ranger diesel is very popular in Brazil and built their also. It was a Brazil built Ranger crewcab diesel that brought me to Edmunds in 1998. 12 years later and I am still looking for a decent PU with small diesel engine.
Sure would cost less if they built 'em there - maybe 60% as much.
Toyota builds the Corolla in the Mercosul region. To be honest I'm not sure if the plant is in Brazil or Argentina or somewhere else, but it doesn't really matter.
Mercosul is basically the South American NAFTA.
It's funny, though, while FM, Ford, Peugoet, Citroen, Honda, and Renault all sell subcompacts in Brazil, Toyota's smallest car sold there is the Corolla, so they actually have a more upscale image than those others. No Yaris, no Scion.
I'm not sure, to be honest. Could be - the VW Gol is a perennial best seller.
VW, Ford, Chevy, and Fiat have been there the longest.
The others arrived mostly in the 90s and do well selling subcompact hatchbacks with "Mille" engines, i.e. under 1000cc. Gol, Uno, Corsa/Celta, and Fiesta/Ka all do well. Toyota is notably absent in that segment.
The economy has improved a lot and the Real is strong, so now they're also buying bigger cars.
I have to go International to show you guys that toyota is still going on a cost cutting FRENZY not just in the US, but around the WORLD !
You guys just don't understand, the hilux truck sold in third world countries is entirely different than the ones you guys praise like its indestructible. The hilux truck sold in third world countries does not even have ONE airbag !
And the engine of the version sold in third world countries is pitiful. The same diesel engine used on the fortuner, guess like what ? 2500 cc common rail diesel, but the power is only 102 PS ! ONE ZERO TWO. Thats not a typo.
Are there any engines in the US like that ? Look at Nissan's turbo diesel engine used on the Navara (sold overseas). Same 2500 cc but producing 180 PS and 410 Nm of torque. That pitiful toyota engine only produces 250 Nm of torque. SAME 2500 cc diesel size mind you.
toyota is and WILL sell junk in the overseas market if they can get away with it. And you guys does'nt know the situation overseas, but toyota often rebadge names of models to confuse people.
For example, the pitiful truck named HILUX in 3rd world countries is a FAR CRY from the ones you guys know. No airbag, No ABS. No nothing. Just a truck with an engine, cabin, 4 wheels and seats. And the engine used is DIFFERENT. But they know the hilux name is famous, so they deliberately put the Hilux name on this pitiful truck. To misled people.
Bare bones truck. You want to drive one like that ?
toyota the perfect car company ? Don't make me laugh, or puke. Where have you been all these while ? toyota is the BIGGEST criminal of all the car companies. Nobody else comes close. Perfect ? God !
the fortuner's brakes are a result of toyota again cutting cost to the bone, watanabe style ! They will only change the brakes to a better spec when people started to get into big accidents, lose their lives !
That, folks, is how toyota does business, overseas, as well as in the US.
With brakes like that, suitable for committing suicide as some of the fortuner's customers said, its far safer to use a scooter or a tata nano than a fortuner. The fortuner is relatively big and heavy, imagine a heavy suv like that with mushy brakes ?
At least the brakes on the scooter or tata nano WORKS !!
NEW YORK -- Ferrari is recalling its new 458 Italia model after several vehicles were reported to have burst into flames.
A Ferrari spokesperson told CNNMoney.com the luxury supercar is being recalled in order to make modifications to the wheelhouse assembly.
"In rare instances the heat shield could become deformed, bringing it too close to the exhaust system and igniting," a Ferrari spokesperson said.
Ferrari is recalling all its 458 Italia vehicles after five fires were reported in California, Switzerland, China and France.
Deliveries of the car in the U.S. began this summer. It has a 4.5-liter 8-cylinder engine, 7-speed automatic transmission, 570 horsepower and has a base price around $230,000.
Ferrari said the company is asking owners of the cars produced before July 2010 to bring them in to have the glue replaced with mechanical fasteners.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released a statement saying Ferrari's Italian headquarters had told its North American division about the recall. NHTSA warned that if the adhesive ignites it could "render the vehicle inoperable and possibly result in a crash."
The NHTSA statement said 303 vehicles are being recalled, and owners could be eligible for reimbursement for if they spent money on repairs related to the problem before the recall was announced.
Ferrari North America will start notifying affected customers within two weeks, NHTSA said.
Last week, Britain's Sky News site said drivers of the 458 Italia were "fearing they are jinxed after 10 of the vehicles crashed or caught fire within three months ... It is not thought that the 458 design has a fault, just that the owners have been unusually unlucky."
Source for all the claims about the equipment lacking on the hilux in 3rd world countries? A Toyota web site for any country you're referring to will do.
The Hilux sold in Brazil has airbags, ABS, all that stuff. I have the Quattro Rodas buying guide at home if you want me to look it up.
As for the "LOUSY, MUSHY, WEAK BRAKES"...
Hello? McFly? Ever heard of a test drive? Even driving around the block you get a feel for the brake pedal.
Mushy brakes are usually from contaminated fluid in the brake lines, a simple bleed job would fix that. An owner not smart enough to realize that also probably mixed fluid types to create the problem in the first place.
I've changed the subject to a more appropriate title.
re·search –noun 1. diligent and systematic inquiry or investigation into a subject in order to discover or revise facts, theories, applications, etc.
I think Ben has spiked his haterade to the point of delusion...
People here are go nuts when there ISN'T a reacll.
Then they go nuts again when there IS a recall.
Make up your minds?
A recall is not a bad thing per se, no car is perfect, and a recall means they're taking responsibility to fix an important problem.
Gary may recall because he has an early Lexus LS, but Lexus actually helped establish a good reputation early on with their response to a recall. They gave owners a red carpet treatment to make those fixes quick and convenient, setting stadards for luxury service (JD Powers awards verified that worked).
There was a case where an owner lived in a remote area - they flew out techs in a helicopter with parts to perform the fix.
PR stunt all the way, sure, but nonetheless Lexus effectively used a recall to actually increase owner satisfaction.
I'm going to remind folks that the latest major recall was for bad ECUs supplied by Delphi, an American supplier and former GM subsidiary. The big one before that was for CTS pedals, also American.
Is Toyota wrong to use American suppliers? I don't think so, despite these recalls.
The protection and safety of driver and passengers is a priority. That’s why HiLux comes with driver and front passenger SRS airbags as standard on every model. The airbags work together with the pre-tensioning seatbelts to help keep both you and your passenger safe in frontal collisions. Front seat side and full length curtain SRS airbags^ are also available in the SR5 4x4 Double Cab model.
>There was a case where an owner lived in a remote area - they flew out techs in a helicopter with parts to perform the fix. PR stunt all the way, sure, but nonetheless Lexus effectively used a recall to actually increase owner satisfaction.
And this glorious customer service degenerated into toyota-lexus telling people they weren't really having any problems with their electronic controls and that people just weren't pressing ont the brake. And all this was data from the data recorders which only recorded 1/100 of second before a crash or was it the data recorders that recorded 15 minutes during Sike's 255 (2^8) presses on the brake pedal.
And all this was read by the one EDR reader that toyota-lexus had available in the US... grin. And _only_ toyota-lexus could use the data recorder reader to decode.
They gave owners a red carpet treatment to make those fixes quick and convenient, setting stadards for luxury service
That is how my wife described them when the LS was new. Though you pay dearly for that service. It is not out of any kind of benevolence. The average service was several hundred dollars. And when the car is old and needs repair. They will stick it to you hoping to sell a new one. Which my wife wanted to do around 2005. She could not get past the ugly Lexus had become. I am sure they are still fine cars to drive. Just not admire in the garage. And the luxury car buyers are moving away also. They have lost their top rank to BMW. With MB about to knock them into 3rd place.
The Toyota Hilux 4x4 scored 10.86 out of 16 in the offset crash test. The passenger compartment held its shape well. Protection from serious chest and leg injury was marginal for the driver.
The BT50 scored 6.457 out of 16 in the offset crash test. Passenger compartment integrity was compromised. Protection from serious leg injury was poor for the driver.
Chest and upper leg protection was marginal for the driver.
The Colorado 4x4 scored 5.4 out of 16 in the offset crash test. The passenger compartment held its shape reasonably well. Protection from serious chest injury was poor for the driver and weak for the passenger. Leg protection was marginal for the driver.
Personally I would rather have the freedom to buy vehicles the way I want it. Not everyone wants or needs 27 airbags, ABS, PSC, etc etc. It is a waste of money to have all that crap in a truck that is used out on a ranch most of its existence. In the US there are few choices.
It all came about because of the ignorance and litigious society we in the USA have become. Somehow we believe we should be able to drive anyway we like and survive any accident our crazy antics cause. A person delivering stuff in a PU truck in India or China may never see the other side of 35 MPH. I have also become soft. Or I would have bought a 1980s VW Rabbit PU truck with a diesel engine for $5000 and got 50 MPG.
That's a poor quality chop but it gives you an idea of what it could look like.
The synergies with Subaru are really going to pay off. Subaru has a much sportier DNA, with all the rally heritage. They can share costs (Subaru will get an AWD version of the coupe) and do more volume. Sedans sell in higher volumes and have more staying power than flavor-of-the-month coupes.
Subaru is supposed to add a hybrid to their lineup (they're way behind on that), so that'll likely be the payback. They showed the B9 Scrambler concept a while ago, which had a 2.0l with direct injection plus hybrid powertrain. The next Impreza is supposed to become more fuel efficient, so a 2.0l engine with an electric motor sourced from Toyota between that engine and Subaru's transmission could be the ticket for best AWD fuel economy on the market.
Personally I would rather have the freedom to buy vehicles the way I want it. Not everyone wants or needs 27 airbags, ABS, PSC, etc etc. It is a waste of money to have all that crap in a truck that is used out on a ranch most of its existence. In the US there are few choices.
It all came about because of the ignorance and litigious society we in the USA have become. Somehow we believe we should be able to drive anyway we like and survive any accident our crazy antics cause. A person delivering stuff in a PU truck in India or China may never see the other side of 35 MPH.
re·search –noun 1. diligent and systematic inquiry or investigation into a subject in order to discover or revise facts, theories, applications, etc.
Unfortunately, there are these posters on just about every forum. Their idea of "research" is to believe what the heard some one else say, or a forwarded e-mail from someone they have never met before.
And,. its widespread. Just look at the "birthers" in politics. As a society, it would appear that, as a whole, we are "dumbing down".
Herr Goebbels could only dream about the damage he could do in a world such as ours today...
I think Ben has spiked his haterade to the point of delusion...
Sometimes, a belief just can't be abandoned, regardless of the wall of evidence that debunks the myth.
I don't think you're going to see extensive option lists any more because reducing the combination's and permutations of models and options tends to lower manufacturing costs and improve production quality because of the standardization. Otherwise, I could sure live without some of this stuff as well.
Comments
I was with a friend yesterday in his Chevy pickup and he said nothing ever broke on it, original engine and trans after 160k miles. Then I asked him to turn on the A/C and he said we had to use the windows because it was ... broken. :confuse:
It's still been a good truck for him, though. His family-owned construction company used to buy Fords, then Chevys, and now they buy Chevys and Toyotas. I asked what truck he would choose as a replacement and he's torn between Chevy and Toyota. He knows about the recalls and all, but he said "they still make good cars".
His dad owns a Tundra, and he really likes it.
I know the hardware is replaced, but the software may not be upgradable.
http://www.consumercomplaints.in/complaints/toyota-fortuner-c274526.html
>Guys I wrote about the Fortuner being a pathetic product - months ago - and people still disagree... the Fortuner is a BAD product - and what toyota has done is mated a new looking body to a OLD Engine and frame of a 10 Year OLD HILUX Truck - which itself was a faliure as compared to other products in its category. People rushed to Toyota Dealers with 1 lacs rupee drafts to book this car and we Indians behave as if the sky is going to fall tomorrow - so we must act like cheapsters today itself.
>I agree to it, I just escaped to death with my family on jaipur highway. The break pedal simply sinks in and the break fails. The same was communicated to me when i asked the service manager about this. I just wonder how can this car clear the quality control tests.
My mobile no is 9311190009. You wont believe that the Mr. Kapil from M/S Uttam toyota Ghaziabad told me that the car seriously have this problem and solution to this is being searcheed by the co..
I dont want to keep this car any more.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
One can find very similar complaints on Edmunds regarding GM vehicles and brakes.
Now, if 5% or more (I'll even go as low as 2%) vehicle owners complain, then you may indeed have a real issue. But, in modern vehicle production quantities, that's a lot of complaints...
A great example is Nissan and it's CVT. Many complain about its feel and function, but that doesn't mean that they are defective.... Its just different.
All it tells me is that there are some unhappy owners with their vehicles, along with the possibility that some vehicles may or may not have certain issues/problems.
That said. The Brakes on my 2007 Sequoia are better than the brakes were on my 1998 Suburban. They are not as good as the brakes on my 2008 Nissan Frontier. Toyota is not known for great brakes. They are just slightly better than Honda. And that is how the game is played.
But toyota is the perfect car manufacturing company. They have the highest reliability of any. Why would they endanger people's lives?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'd change that to:
The ruling could have serious implications for all auto manufacturers
Wanna bet GM and Ford are hoping Toyota wins this one?
Rollover cases are hard to win because the federal standard is pathetic - a vehicle has to withstand just 1.5 times its own weight.
IIHS now tests roof strength and many cars can take 4-5 times their own weight. 1.5 is weaksauce.
Not a hard standard to meet.
I told you ben66 would only come back when he found more bad news for Toyota, looks like he even had to go international to find the sequel to the 3-armed Grandma (note he dropped that topic and could not muster a reply).
many toyota buyers here who feel the product is perfect and invincible
Who said that? Name names, please.
You guys keep referring to this mythical Toyota Fanboy, who is he? I'm sure there's a 16 year old somewhere who inherited a Corolla S from his mom and thinks it's a sports car because it has a rear spoiler (duh). But they're rare, and I don't see anyone like that here on Edmunds.
Noone car is perfect, of course not. Noone here made that claim.
HILUX Truck - which itself was a faliure as compared to other products in its category
That is pure and simple the dumbest statement I have ever read. The Hilux is legendary for the opposite reason. A failure? If you believe that, hang up your auto enthusiast shoes and retire from posting on Edmunds.
Anyone else remember the Top Gear episode with the Hilux that would not die? They blew up a high rise with the Hilux on top and when they removed it from the rubble, IT STILL RAN! That was epic. That truck hangs in their studio to this day.
Larger image and as a link:
http://www.pictures-of-cars.com/image/img_PICT2597.jpg
Why would they want to sell something like that here?
No one would have to buy another for at least 20 years. They would go bankrupt waiting for new buyers.
What you are saying has more truth than fiction. A missionary friend uses a 1983 Toyota PU down in Mexico. The roads he crawls over into the Copper Canyon region are worse than just horrible. The engine is past 300k miles. He literally goes on prayer.
Toyota down 34%
GM down 25%
Ford down 11%
One exception was Chrysler Group LLC, which saw sales rise more than expected.
Chrysler sales rose 7 percent to 99,611 compared to last August, the company said. It’s the Auburn Hills, Michigan-based automaker’s fifth-straight month of year-over-year sales increases.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-01/gm-s-total-u-s-vehicle-sales-fell-24-9-- last-month-more-than-estimated.html
Go take a vacation outside the US to open up your mind. Every company builds cars to follow local market requirement to be competitive. VW, GM build cars that never meet US safety requirements all over the world. In India, Toyota Fortuner is way safer than riding a scooter, or driving a Tata Nano.
Sarcasm.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just keep in mind, and I had forgotten about this till I was reading some of the sales figures today, that at this time last year was the cash for clunkers program and Toyota was the biggest sale maker from that program of all the auto manufacturers and since we don't have that program this year, most car makers saw a decrease in sales compared to last year, especially for Toyota since they had the most sales from the cash for clunkers program and thus more to lose between Aug 2010 and Aug 2009.
Just a thought I was thinking about when reading through the numbers today.
The Hilux SW4 (station wagon 4wd) is similarly somewhat related to the previous 4Runner platform, though it's been updated and went in a different direction.
Americans want soft and comfy (quiet touring tires please), 3rd world markets want tough and durable (semi-knobby tires will do). So they've drifted apart. Brazil gets Hilux pickups and Hilux SW4 and they are legendary. A diesel SW4 model sells for the equivalent of US$100,000. No kidding. Taxes are killer. The kicker - it still sells well.
Top Gear took a modified one to the North Pole, if you saw that episode. It's a far cry from our manicure-friendly 4Runner today.
In the USA, before Toyota used the Tacoma name their compact pickup had live axles front and rear, since then the Taco got an indy front to appease the smooth-ride-loving American buyer. Toyota figured contractors would buy a full-size pickup anyway.
Basically, Gary is absolutely, 100% correct. USA gets a comfy light-duty version of the truck, while 3rd world markets get the real deal.
Even bigger Toyota trucks are that way. The Lexus GX is a Land Cruiser Prado in other markets. Lexus LX = Land Cruiser, but we get both anyway.
My dad ran a whole fleet of trucks for his work in both Suriname and Belize. They used to use Land Rovers until they realized it cost half as much to operate a fleet of Toyotas. He had a Land Cruiser that was totally sweet:
* diesel engine
* MANUAL transmission (imagine that selling in the USA!!!)
* water-proof vinyl seats
* steel wheels that don't break when you hit rocks/potholes off road
* full-fledged knobby off road tires
This is from the factory.
He basically ordered vehicles from the UN catalog.
The kicker? In the early 90s, he could get a Land Cruiser equipped in that manner for about US$25,000.
Of course that's tax exempt, but it's amazing how much Toyota could offer for so little.
Us? We get a leather-lined Lexus LX for about $76 grand for suburban housewives to drive to the mall.
That about sums it up.
Folks here pointed out earlier that Toyota was one of the biggest beneficiaries of C4C since they sold many fuel-efficient models that would qualify for the program. I bet they sold less than half as many Priuses (Prii?).
Peeking at the sales chart, Suzuki got clobbered again, down 68%. Ouch. Kizashi just won a major satisfaction award, not just for its class but as the most satisfying car overall. What gives? Invisible marketing?
Bright spot was Chrysler, up 7%. I bet that's for the opposite reason Toyota dropped - Chrysler is weak in the small/efficient car categories and got few C4C sales. Hence why Fiat will sell their own small cars in Chrysler dealerships.
Looking at the bigger picture, the market is down 21% and that's not good. Unemployment numbers also look bad.
Double-dip recession, here we come.
:shades:
Toyota builds the Corolla in the Mercosul region. To be honest I'm not sure if the plant is in Brazil or Argentina or somewhere else, but it doesn't really matter.
Mercosul is basically the South American NAFTA.
It's funny, though, while FM, Ford, Peugoet, Citroen, Honda, and Renault all sell subcompacts in Brazil, Toyota's smallest car sold there is the Corolla, so they actually have a more upscale image than those others. No Yaris, no Scion.
VW, Ford, Chevy, and Fiat have been there the longest.
The others arrived mostly in the 90s and do well selling subcompact hatchbacks with "Mille" engines, i.e. under 1000cc. Gol, Uno, Corsa/Celta, and Fiesta/Ka all do well. Toyota is notably absent in that segment.
The economy has improved a lot and the Real is strong, so now they're also buying bigger cars.
You guys just don't understand, the hilux truck sold in third world countries is entirely different than the ones you guys praise like its indestructible. The hilux truck sold in third world countries does not even have ONE airbag !
And the engine of the version sold in third world countries is pitiful. The same diesel engine used on the fortuner, guess like what ? 2500 cc common rail diesel, but the power is only 102 PS ! ONE ZERO TWO. Thats not a typo.
Are there any engines in the US like that ? Look at Nissan's turbo diesel engine used on the Navara (sold overseas). Same 2500 cc but producing 180 PS and 410 Nm of torque. That pitiful toyota engine only produces 250 Nm of torque. SAME 2500 cc diesel size mind you.
toyota is and WILL sell junk in the overseas market if they can get away with it. And you guys does'nt know the situation overseas, but toyota often rebadge names of models to confuse people.
For example, the pitiful truck named HILUX in 3rd world countries is a FAR CRY from the ones you guys know. No airbag, No ABS. No nothing. Just a truck with an engine, cabin, 4 wheels and seats. And the engine used is DIFFERENT. But they know the hilux name is famous, so they deliberately put the Hilux name on this pitiful truck. To misled people.
Bare bones truck. You want to drive one like that ?
the fortuner's brakes are a result of toyota again cutting cost to the bone, watanabe style ! They will only change the brakes to a better spec when people started to get into big accidents, lose their lives !
That, folks, is how toyota does business, overseas, as well as in the US.
With brakes like that, suitable for committing suicide as some of the fortuner's customers said, its far safer to use a scooter or a tata nano than a fortuner. The fortuner is relatively big and heavy, imagine a heavy suv like that with mushy brakes ?
At least the brakes on the scooter or tata nano WORKS !!
NEW YORK -- Ferrari is recalling its new 458 Italia model after several vehicles were reported to have burst into flames.
A Ferrari spokesperson told CNNMoney.com the luxury supercar is being recalled in order to make modifications to the wheelhouse assembly.
"In rare instances the heat shield could become deformed, bringing it too close to the exhaust system and igniting," a Ferrari spokesperson said.
Ferrari is recalling all its 458 Italia vehicles after five fires were reported in California, Switzerland, China and France.
Deliveries of the car in the U.S. began this summer. It has a 4.5-liter 8-cylinder engine, 7-speed automatic transmission, 570 horsepower and has a base price around $230,000.
Ferrari said the company is asking owners of the cars produced before July 2010 to bring them in to have the glue replaced with mechanical fasteners.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released a statement saying Ferrari's Italian headquarters had told its North American division about the recall. NHTSA warned that if the adhesive ignites it could "render the vehicle inoperable and possibly result in a crash."
The NHTSA statement said 303 vehicles are being recalled, and owners could be eligible for reimbursement for if they spent money on repairs related to the problem before the recall was announced.
Ferrari North America will start notifying affected customers within two weeks, NHTSA said.
Last week, Britain's Sky News site said drivers of the 458 Italia were "fearing they are jinxed after 10 of the vehicles crashed or caught fire within three months ... It is not thought that the 458 design has a fault, just that the owners have been unusually unlucky."
The Hilux sold in Brazil has airbags, ABS, all that stuff. I have the Quattro Rodas buying guide at home if you want me to look it up.
As for the "LOUSY, MUSHY, WEAK BRAKES"...
Hello? McFly? Ever heard of a test drive? Even driving around the block you get a feel for the brake pedal.
Mushy brakes are usually from contaminated fluid in the brake lines, a simple bleed job would fix that. An owner not smart enough to realize that also probably mixed fluid types to create the problem in the first place.
I've changed the subject to a more appropriate title.
You need to look up sarcasm in the dictionary, tomjava wasn't saying that.
re·search
–noun
1. diligent and systematic inquiry or investigation into a subject in order to discover or revise facts, theories, applications, etc.
I think Ben has spiked his haterade to the point of delusion...
People here are go nuts when there ISN'T a reacll.
Then they go nuts again when there IS a recall.
Make up your minds?
A recall is not a bad thing per se, no car is perfect, and a recall means they're taking responsibility to fix an important problem.
Gary may recall because he has an early Lexus LS, but Lexus actually helped establish a good reputation early on with their response to a recall. They gave owners a red carpet treatment to make those fixes quick and convenient, setting stadards for luxury service (JD Powers awards verified that worked).
There was a case where an owner lived in a remote area - they flew out techs in a helicopter with parts to perform the fix.
PR stunt all the way, sure, but nonetheless Lexus effectively used a recall to actually increase owner satisfaction.
I'm going to remind folks that the latest major recall was for bad ECUs supplied by Delphi, an American supplier and former GM subsidiary. The big one before that was for CTS pedals, also American.
Is Toyota wrong to use American suppliers? I don't think so, despite these recalls.
Toyota Hilux Safety
The protection and safety of driver and passengers is a priority. That’s why HiLux comes with driver and front passenger SRS airbags as standard on every model. The airbags work together with the pre-tensioning seatbelts to help keep both you and your passenger safe in frontal collisions. Front seat side and full length curtain SRS airbags^ are also available in the SR5 4x4 Double Cab model.
And this glorious customer service degenerated into toyota-lexus telling people they weren't really having any problems with their electronic controls and that people just weren't pressing ont the brake. And all this was data from the data recorders which only recorded 1/100 of second before a crash or was it the data recorders that recorded 15 minutes during Sike's 255 (2^8) presses on the brake pedal.
And all this was read by the one EDR reader that toyota-lexus had available in the US... grin. And _only_ toyota-lexus could use the data recorder reader to decode.
Yeah. Sure.
The best, most caring car company on earth.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That is how my wife described them when the LS was new. Though you pay dearly for that service. It is not out of any kind of benevolence. The average service was several hundred dollars. And when the car is old and needs repair. They will stick it to you hoping to sell a new one. Which my wife wanted to do around 2005. She could not get past the ugly Lexus had become. I am sure they are still fine cars to drive. Just not admire in the garage. And the luxury car buyers are moving away also. They have lost their top rank to BMW. With MB about to knock them into 3rd place.
Occupant protection: 4 Stars
The Toyota Hilux 4x4 scored 10.86 out of 16 in the offset crash test. The passenger compartment held its shape well. Protection from serious chest and leg injury was marginal for the driver.
By comparison...
2008 Ford Ranger (or Mazda BT50)
Occupant Protection: 3 stars
The BT50 scored 6.457 out of 16 in the offset crash test. Passenger compartment integrity was compromised. Protection from serious leg injury was poor for the driver.
Chest and upper leg protection was marginal for the driver.
2008 Holden Colorado
Occupant Protection: 3 stars
The Colorado 4x4 scored 5.4 out of 16 in the offset crash test. The passenger compartment held its shape reasonably well. Protection from serious chest injury was poor for the driver and weak for the passenger. Leg protection was marginal for the driver.
* High risk of life-threatening chest injury
ABS as well but no dramatic screen shot prove it. LOL
It all came about because of the ignorance and litigious society we in the USA have become. Somehow we believe we should be able to drive anyway we like and survive any accident our crazy antics cause. A person delivering stuff in a PU truck in India or China may never see the other side of 35 MPH. I have also become soft. Or I would have bought a 1980s VW Rabbit PU truck with a diesel engine for $5000 and got 50 MPG.
And you bring up a good point - what do competitors offer? I mean the Mitsubishi L200 and other similarly priced pickups.
Anyone know the web site for Toyota India?
That's a poor quality chop but it gives you an idea of what it could look like.
The synergies with Subaru are really going to pay off. Subaru has a much sportier DNA, with all the rally heritage. They can share costs (Subaru will get an AWD version of the coupe) and do more volume. Sedans sell in higher volumes and have more staying power than flavor-of-the-month coupes.
Subaru is supposed to add a hybrid to their lineup (they're way behind on that), so that'll likely be the payback. They showed the B9 Scrambler concept a while ago, which had a 2.0l with direct injection plus hybrid powertrain. The next Impreza is supposed to become more fuel efficient, so a 2.0l engine with an electric motor sourced from Toyota between that engine and Subaru's transmission could be the ticket for best AWD fuel economy on the market.
Should be interesting.
It all came about because of the ignorance and litigious society we in the USA have become. Somehow we believe we should be able to drive anyway we like and survive any accident our crazy antics cause. A person delivering stuff in a PU truck in India or China may never see the other side of 35 MPH.
Really good points, and I fully agree.
–noun
1. diligent and systematic inquiry or investigation into a subject in order to discover or revise facts, theories, applications, etc.
Unfortunately, there are these posters on just about every forum. Their idea of "research" is to believe what the heard some one else say, or a forwarded e-mail from someone they have never met before.
And,. its widespread. Just look at the "birthers" in politics. As a society, it would appear that, as a whole, we are "dumbing down".
Herr Goebbels could only dream about the damage he could do in a world such as ours today...
I think Ben has spiked his haterade to the point of delusion...
Sometimes, a belief just can't be abandoned, regardless of the wall of evidence that debunks the myth.