Toyota on the mend?

iluvmysephia1

when I see rigs like this built by Toyota I get over feeling they're an annoying carmaker. This body style just flat out rocks. There is talk now of Toyota building this car as a hybrid and a ICE car both. Or just a hybrid. But it's now firmly on their planners radar screens and the enthusiasm is pouring in to Toyo execs about the FT-86. Possibly naming the car Celica, that makes sense, doesn't it?



$20,000 for the base FT-86 6-speed manual. Cool. Love ta get rowing through the gears again.

At first I thought they'd need ta tone down the front end a bit but I think they can produce the car as it's designed here, I just had ta get used to the slanty headlights a bit.

iluvmysephia1

dash of the 2013 Toyota FT-86. I like the horizontal bottom to the steering wheel, it only adds to the building appreciation I have for this car.



I could see this being my first Toyota. I am quickly losing excitement for all-electric cars and hybrids because of this car, though now I have read of budding thoughts to incorporate some "green" technology in with this car as well. I could see Toyota putting a hybrid powertrain in to the FT-86. That business case makes much sense.

fintail

Way too busy and goofy for me. Clutter and different for the sake of clutter and being different. The leering lights look is really getting played out, too. Note to Asian makers - your toasters are not intimidating even if they squint and glare at me :shades:

iluvmysephia1

that was actually released in July 2010. The project is a go, and the cars will be released at the end of 2011. They will utilize Subaru's boxer engines and will indeed be all RWD. The bit about a 2013 release date are false and this comes from the horses mouth. Whoo-hoo! I'm making serious plans now to buy one of these 4-door FT-86 sedans in 6-speed stick form. With that red color I have been showing you of late on here. I will pay up to $200 extra if I have to to get that red color, too. :shades:

Here's the press release from Toyota Motors USA regarding the 2013 rumour.

Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc.
We appreciate your interest in the FT-86!
Please note: Toyota and Fuji Heavy Industries, the parent company of Subaru, have jointly develop a compact rear-wheel-drive sports car that will utilize Subaru’s “boxer” engine technologies and is targeted to be brought to market by the end of 2011.

Oh, and Toyota is not going to build a hybrid FT-86, either. At least that's not in their plans right now. Toyota will be spelled with a capital 'T' by this NE Nevada padre from now on.

gagrice

Toyota will be spelled with a capital 'T' by this NE Nevada padre from now on.

You are way too easy man. A pretty face and you switch in a NY second. I think the Scion tC has more sex appeal than the FT86. The tC has much cleaner lines without all the ugly foo foo. You want a sports car get a Porsche Boxster. More bang for the buck. Don't expect the FT86 to hit the showroom for a penny less than $35k. Probably more like $40 if it is at all competitive in the class.

ateixeira

NatGeo had a 1 hour Ultimate Factories program on the Volt

I watched that, too. Good show, BTW, also saw the Porsche one.

It would take planning, but it would seem to make sense to stanardize on a battery pack size now. Batteries could evolve but remain the same size.

Look at Black & Decker - you can get the 18v power supply in various formats, including the newest Lithium batteries. And they fit the old drills, too.

With spare battery packs a "fueling station", or maybe Battery Station, could charge all their spares overnight, to avoid charging during peak hours and perhaps use cheaper off-peak energy.

ateixeira

how and where will we dispose of all the hybrid batteries that go bad as that area expands?

This isn't as bad as people think.

The single lead-acid battery in your current car is MUCH more harmful to the environment and also much more difficult to recycle than NiMH batteries, which are primarily Nickel (an abundant element) and so harmless you could bury a pile of them under your veggie garden.

To be honest I'm not sure about Lithium-ion and Lithium-polymer batteries but lead acid are the worst of the worst in those terms.

IIRC you can get $400 for a spent Prius battery pack. They're not too likely to end up in landfills.

ateixeira

I think Hyundai was coming anyway

They were indeed.

Last year Hyundai and Subaru were the only 2 brands who actually showed sales gains.

And that was before the Sonata became a smashing success - it's now in the Top 10 for auto sales even if you include trucks. The new Kia Sorento is also a smash hit.

They had a couple of recall stumbles in the past couple of weeks but a senior exec actually resigned to take responsibility for that (shocking, I know!).

ateixeira

up until not too long ago a comparable Toyota went out the door for several grand more than many of its competitors. I'd call that a premium image among buyers of mid priced vehicles at the time. Today they are more about volume, and despite the mongering they are doing pretty well on a very profitable basis

I agree.

I think the single model that helped them do that was the 1992 Camry. When it came out, it was bigger than the Accord it competed with, and let Toyota raise prices a bit above most competitors, and certainly higher transactions prices than before.

Later they started chasing volume, and selling more cars to fleets.

ateixeira

The tC has much cleaner lines...

Dunno, I liked the original one better than the new one.

I realize it was 6 years old and in need of a re-do, but the new one looks ... forced.

$18,995 for 180hp and a 6 speed manual ain't bad, though. It should be enough to boost Scion sales. It's priced like the entry-level sporty compacts, but the power level falls between those and the true hot hatches.

Still, I'd pay more for Subaru's AWD version of the FT-86, which should have AWD and more power, plus looks much sportier.

busiris

NatGeo had a 1 hour Ultimate Factories program on the Volt

I watched that, too. Good show, BTW, also saw the Porsche one.

It would take planning, but it would seem to make sense to stanardize on a battery pack size now. Batteries could evolve but remain the same size.

Look at Black & Decker - you can get the 18v power supply in various formats, including the newest Lithium batteries. And they fit the old drills, too.

With spare battery packs a "fueling station", or maybe Battery Station, could charge all their spares overnight, to avoid charging during peak hours and perhaps use cheaper off-peak energy.

I also saw that one, along with the shows on the Camaro, Corvette, Lanberghini and Rolls Royce....All great programs.

I think the real issue with the replaceable batteries is safety and exposure...no, not in swapping them out, but in auto-accident cases. High-voltage battery packs don't do so well if they get compacted in a collision with another vehicle. There are many cases of laptops using lithium technology catching fire due to internal battery contamination (a different issue), but it does show that these battery packs are much more complicated than the "D" cells in a flash light.

Still, if there's a "will", there's probably a "way". But, I doubt we are at the stage to be standardizing battery sizes and types yet, at least in autos.

While I'm certainly no expert, I do think that's a big consideration in battery location.

Anyway we look at it, there are going to be some really big changes in personal transportation over the next 50 years.

ateixeira

I think I saw the Corvette and Rolls episodes, too. Cool show. It's like the How It's Made for cars.

Besides the concern you bring up, cooling is another. Isn't the Volt battery pack sugmerged in fluid? That would have to be taken into account - how to keep newer, hotter-running batteries cool.

Though now that I think about it, I think the heat concern is usually while charging, no? The battery station would be easier to keep cool because it's not mobile. Plus it could be charged slowly, which produces less heat. The heat that is produce could be used to warm the shop.

We just need innovative thinking like that...

explorerx4

I meant to add Subaru in there too. I see lots of new Outback wagons.

iluvmysephia1

seems to have a lot of what I'm looking for, gagrice. I may pass on it and keep my Lancer GTS from Mitsubishi. We'll see, I just found that the availability of the 4 doors and the base price of $20,000 looked mighty good to me. Agreeable...and gorgeous. The base price would of course be with the 6-speed manual tranny. And it apparently will be just a titch over $20,000, too. Worth every penny though. I can see Toyota asking oh...$21,995 for a base RWD 6-speed manual-trannied 2012 Celica Supra. Oh, that is something else I have learned. Toyota may call the FT-86 Celica Supra. Cool. But I want the car, the name means very little when desiring a car. Maybe that's just me, though.




Rowing through the gears again will be nice too

Cars are a very individual thing. I recall in March of 2007 after we bought our Lancer GTS nippononly gave me a hard time for talking the manual transmission thing but not walking the walk. You know what? Having the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS with the CVT automatic tranny has been a great experience. I will think this one out thoroughly before operating, but, with the great availability of internet information, I'm learning something every day about this car...and loving it more each segment of information.

And, Elko, NV has a Toyota dealer and it's about 3/4 of a mile from my work. There is no Mitsubishi dealer within 229 miles of me. That bites. Not a total deal enabler, yet rather annoying.

iluvmysephia1

just dropping by for a little visit.


Take me out and flog me

The car that may be named Celica Supra. They'll name it that, don't kid yourself. I always liked the Celica, too, funny. It is probably my favorite Toyota off all of them. Wait a minute, it is by far my favorite Toyota off all time. Toyota can do sporty, but this new 2012 Toyota FT-86 just exudes sportiness.

I want the FT-86 t-shirts, caps, socks and keychains, too. Let's go all out with this babe. Ahh, not the concept name FT-86, though, Toyota. The keychains and t-shirts should say 2012 Toyota Celica Supra or 2012 Celica.

imidazol97

>look at things like CR and you'll see they still are more red dot (less repairs)

Macht nichts. The difference between the levels in CR's amorphorous scoring system is trivial now compared to 15 years ago. Most cars are about the same. We have just witnessed how CR's careful system detected the flaws in toyota-lexus during the many years they were hiding the data from NHSTA.

>a comparable Toyota went out the door for several grand more than many of its competitors.

I'd call that salemanship. There's a sucker born every minute!

berri

Do I detect a bit of bias?

gagrice

I liked the original one better than the new one.

Yes the first gen was the good looking one. The new one looks like they just wanted to make changes for the sake of change. Not on my shopping list. Not sure if it can survive two huge screw ups. The original xB was cool and sold pretty well. I don't think the rework is worth a second look.

imidazol97

>Do I detect a bit of bias?

Slight.

fintail

I knew Mr. Supra...you're no Supra :shades:

It might be wise to be realistic about this thing - those pics are of a concept, and I can be safe in assuring you the interior will be nothing like that. I wonder if Toyota can cram a Corolla dashboard and steering wheel in it

iluvmysephia1

wrong, kimo-slobby.

It might be wise to be realistic about this thing - those pics are of a concept, and I can be safe in assuring you the interior will be nothing like that. I wonder if Toyota can cram a Corolla dashboard and steering wheel in it

In my earlier exhaustive research today I learned that the concept model body I keep showing on here will be what we see in production. Even the slanty headlights that look at you and say "Do I see a Mitsubishi Lancer GTS/Ralliart/EVO in front of me there?" will look like this in production.


Please buy me and take me to Yosemite Park for a fun-filled vacation

The interior will look similar but something tells me there will be some minor changes to it before production. Which won't really...disappoint me.


Please make my steering wheel cool in production...much like this one looks like

nippononly-are you interested in this car or are you ready to get a new Honda CR-Z Hybrid?

Oh, the 2012 Toyota Celica Supra...uh...ummm....I mean FT-86 will not become a Hybrid. That's from Mr. Toyoda himself. Quelling rumors from those that want green-dom to expand to new world order Supra-land.

This car is made for drifting...it's RWD and the body will be light. And the Subaru boxer engine's hp today in reading said 170hp. But that changes every day in research about this car.

It rides on 19-inch wheels shod with 225/40R19 tyres.

Whoa...19" tires...those'll cost a bundle to replace, eh?

iluvmysephia1

This is a most unusual dashboard. It will grow on me. It will grow on me. Oh, it will most definitely grow on me.

Hey, could you pass me my 'Yer Favourites' Tragically Hip CD? That's one thing I need to read about on the net...what kind of stereo is going in to this baby?

I like the shiftknob, though I wonder if I might prefer a smooth and shiny metal one more? No problem-o, this baby will have TRD parts available left and right, for sure. After all, I will be buying the lower-end model that is made specifically for those who want to modify their cars.

iluvmysephia1

so I found a picture of the 2012 Toyota Celica's gearshift knob for you all.



Forget about the metal gearknob, this one is better. This car is mostly ready for production already. I think it will enter in to production sometime in the next few months. Like November or December. I'll find that out for you and get back to you, K?

iluvmysephia1

for your viewing pleasure. These will need to have intense scrutiny before building them in production mode. And the ECU that will control the accelerator pedals intentions.


With little ridges on them for exact press-point pressure adulation

nippononly

Yes, I'm somewhat interested in this car. I will be more interested if they make it official that it will have 4 doors, which they haven't yet.

So iluv, I know you enjoy getting carried away with these things, but let me just temper your enthusiasm a little bit with some things I have learned along the way of being a 25-year fan of Toyota:

1. If they are proposing a $22K version today, then one of two things will happen by the time it hits the showroom: it will either be totally stripped (no power package, crappy plastic wheel covers, the whole Toyota treatment) at that price, or the actual base price will be $24K.

2. I will be very happy if they have Celica and Celica Supra versions, but in that case the Supra version will be the turbo and will sell for no less than $30K new.

3. At $22K, this thing will have so much hard plastic inside it you could build a skate park. Will it be stylish hard plastic? Yes, perhaps, but all hard touch points nonetheless. I am just getting a little tired of that treatment from Toyota.

With all that said, I am glad Toyota is getting back in the game just a little bit with the FT-86. I truly hope they do NOT badge it a Scion because Toyota so desperately needs something desirable in their lineup again. Then they have to move on to making their other cars a lot more interesting.

fintail

I'll believe it when I see it. I can assure you such things as the wheels and entire interior are almost nothing like the production model. Probably the same for the pedals too. That interior is really hard on my eyes, I want to take a hammer to those air vents.

19" wheels, quality brand of tires...the average buyer of this car will not accept that expense. Not to worry...the license plate even says "concept", and it will all have to be dumbed down a lot to meet the price point.

But maybe slanty headlights will make it, and pretend to intimidate the sheeple. Your toaster is leering at me :shades:

imidazol97

http://detnews.com/article/20100918/AUTO01/9180395/Toyota-settles-suit-over-high- -profile-Calif.-crash

"Toyota has reached an out-of-court settlement with relatives of a family killed when the Lexus sedan they were driving sped out of control and crashed, an accident that put a national spotlight on the sudden acceleration problems that later prompted the automaker to recall millions of vehicles."

iluvmysephia1

Mr.Toyota has said that the exterior and the interior are how they will look on the final product. Remember, the final product will hit U.S. shores for sale in November of 2011.

nippononly, yeah, I get ya, but I've read enough now on this FT-86 from Toyota to pull in a base 6-speed price of around 20,995. That should include a reasonable stereo, A/C, power w's, l's and m's, possibly a power driver's seat, etc.

I don't need anything else. I would want the 6-speed and that red I've been showing and A/C, CD player with reasonable speaker system and the power items aforementioned.

But if I do get more interested and want to go deal in a year, I'm protected by the fact that I will want a specific preset amount for the '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. Period. I don't want this car so much that I throw away my beautiful Lancer for it.

If I ever move to that point. Not there now, though I am gathering up information on this car much like Gary Payton used to gather up points and assists for the Seattle Supersonics. Which were the best basketball team in the 1990's by far. Most wins vs. losses. Look it up.

So we'll see. And that interior is framed in solid as it will look, fintail. Bookmark the picture and put a date on the title for today and then check it in about 9 months, when the baby will have reached gestation. You'll see that it will be the same.

And I don't know if I like that interior yet, however, I will need to sit down and look more at it and especially during the test drive. This will be a RWD drifter's delight, around 2,000 lbs. of automotive pleasure, and here in Elko, NV, RWD could be a curse because of all the snow.

gagrice

and here in Elko, NV, RWD could be a curse because of all the snow.

I think the ground clearance will be the killer in snow. I personally had better luck with RWD in deep snow than FWD. The only FWD I liked driving in snow was my partners Saab 9000. The worst was my 1973 Subaru FWD coupe. Never really considered Subaru after that experience. My 1978 Honda Accord was not much better. My 1970 Datsun RWD PU would walk circles around either in snow and on ice. Best two wheel drive I ever owned while in Alaska. Better get a BMW X5 diesel. It is a rocket and great on or off road in all weather conditions.

fintail

X5 is too douchey (although not as bad as an X6)...better go for a grey market diesel G-wagen if you want Germanic off roading :shades:

fintail

Where did Mr. Toyota say that? What will it really weigh with power trappings?

It would be quite a coup if it happened...an exciting (if not bizarre) Toyota...even if it is apparently a Subaru in drag. I was much younger the last time that happened.

gagrice

I really like the looks of the G far better than the ML or GL. Just no American diesel. And the G550 has to be the gas hog to beat all gas hogs. I am not really sold on the looks of the X5. Just the power, handling and highway mileage.

All the new US Toy/Lex SUVs are butt ugly. If Toyota gets their head out of that place where the sun don't shine and brings the Real Toyota Land Cruiser with a diesel engine to America, they may get another shot at my cash. If not, the country is filled with suckers that don't really care about quality. The 2007 Sequoia was the last decent quality SUV they built. Not great, but decent when you can buy one for $10,000 under MSRP.

fintail

I think they have been brought in grey market, so they can be found...you just have to keep an eye out. Of course they won't be new, but new is usually for suckers anyway.

Toyota styling in general has been a loud weak point for many years.

andres3

settled out of court, if you ask me , every penny they got was a GIFT.

gagrice

I would imagine the mothers would rather have their sons and daughter back instead of the pittance Toyota settled for. Toyota does not settle unless they are guilty. And they were totally negligent in the PP design of their gas pedals in those cars.

iluvmysephia1

my right eye with one of my wife's Popeil lifetime steak knives than buy a BMW of any flavor. I can't stand BMW's, yet Audi's are much more of a delight. German to me does not mean better, in any way. I will buy Japanese, though.

Better get a BMW X5 diesel. It is a rocket and great on or off road in all weather conditions.

gagrice

I cannot speak from experience as I have never owned a BMW. They are kicking Lexus butt this year. So they must be appealing to people that can afford the best. Lexus has nothing to offer in the X5 or 335 diesel class and they are selling well. I asked about discounts and they were not interested in talking any further. When they don't follow you to your car that is a sign they don't need your money.

I think you are still going to get the most bang for your buck with a Korean brand. Being somewhat remote you need a dealer that is closer than 200 miles. Is Toyota the only Japanese dealer in town?

By the way. The FT86 may get a real sports car engine.

At the British Embassy in Tokyo today, Lotus CEO Dany Bahar gifted Toyota President Akio Toyoda with a Lotus Elise powered by the very last 2ZZ-GE VVTL-i engine.

This could spell the end of after-the-fact tweaking for Lotus and perhaps a hot new motor for Toyota...say...for the FT-86. But that's pure speculation.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/09/lotus-toyota-taking-relationshi- - p-to-the-next-level.html

So maybe Toyota is serious about having a true sports car. Not a wannabe ToySub.

gagrice

Audi's are much more of a delight.

Absolutely. If Audi offered their A4 Allroad with 2.0L TDI in the USA it would be in my garage today. My favorite Audi of all. It has it all in one vehicle. Looks, handling, great MPG, luxury and it don't do bad off road.



PS
It is rated in the EU at 51.2 MPG (42.8 MPG US) Nothing from Toyota, Japan or Korea in that league.

iluvmysephia1

for Toyota to pick an engine for the FT-86, so who knows. Other than that it is supposed to be a Subaru boxer motor supplying 160-170hp. I will find out about it as soon as it hits the streets, though.



No other Japanese car dealers in Elko. There's a Mitsubishi dealer in steve's environs, Boise, ID. About 230 miles north. Not that far, but kinda far. I guess the snowplows get on it pretty quick here, I should be fine with a FWD '08 Lancer or a RWD '12 Toyota Celica...I...I mean Supra...I..I mean Celica...or for now just plain FT-86.

One thing that is appealing to me is how important the FT-86 is to Mr. Toyoda. They desperately want to return to some sense of design style and sportiness. This car does it for me, I like the idea of RWD 6-speed manual. And this sporty bodystyle.


To me Toyota has done just as good a job on the rear end as they have on the front end

Great job integrating the spoiler in to the taillights and vice versa. Gorgeous. To say I wasn't interested would be like me saying I wanted the Stealers to win the Super Bowl this year. :shades:

fintail

That looks like the old A6 Allroad to me. A co-worker has one, his is a gigantic money pit and he claims his mechanic told him it was the most reliable he's seen. Cars like that are why people buy Lexus.

Heck, my diesel 7 series averaged over 30mpg, and that included many 130mph autobahn runs.

fintail

I will say I like the lack of a sticking up spoiler...I don't care for spoilers.

iluvmysephia1

an "integrated" spoiler. And it is by far the best looking integrated spoiler I have ever seen. This car was designed in Toyota's French design studios. Tee-hee.

Toyota Europe Design Development (ED²) was responsible for the design of the FT-86 Concept which was shown at the Tokyo Motor Show last October and was relatively well received by the public.

Apparently ED2 is in Nice, France.

http://www.7tune.com/toyota-ft-86-concept-design-rejected/

jimbres

German to me does not mean better, in any way.

That tells me that you haven't spent much time behind the wheel of a German car. I drove sensible FWD Japanese cars (mostly Honda) for many years before treating myself to a BMW 330i equipped with manual transmission & the sports package. It's a wholly different & vastly more entertaining driving experience.

This one factoid should tip you off: nowhere in Japan can you legally drive more than 100 kph (62 mph), while much of the German autobahn has no mandatory speed limit. (There is a 130 kph "suggested" limit.) You're kidding yourself if you don't think that this doesn't affect car designs. (I've driven in Germany. It's a blast.)

I'm a BMW fan, but I've driven a friend's new Audi S4 & have been hugely impressed - to the point where an Audi might just be my next car. Nothing out of Asia comes close.

If you like to drive - as opposed to merely riding while hanging on to the steering wheel - then Deutschland über alles, my friend.

iluvmysephia1

in their snotty delivery and boring looks. I never said that I didn't think they wouldn't drive nicely. But I am concerned with how my car looks and drives. Hence my love for Kia's, Mitsubishi Lancer's and now this new Toyota contraption they're calling the FT-86. It looks like it will be a gorgeous bargain for only $20,000. If it's $21,000 I'd still be interested in playing. And as gagrice can attest I'm not even a Toyota fan at all.

I am a fan of great cars. Hence my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS and the 2012 Toyota FT-86. I can only have one, though.

iluvmysephia1

for 2010. And on.


A different angle of the front view

Hey, guys, I just thought of the first thing I could think of that may not make it in to production. Look at the headlights. Wanna bet that those thin strip lights leading towards the center of the front don't make it to production? My.Toyoda just publicly stated that the interior and the exterior both will go to production just as I've shown you in all these pictures. But those thin strips inside the headlights like that will be built for spill too? Interesting.

I think I'm falling in love again.

jimbres

But I am concerned with how my car looks and drives. [emphasis added]

Well, if you really care about the driving part, then it's definitely time to go German.

Really, what can you expect in the way of superior road dynamics from countries that don't let you drive more than 62 mph (hah!) on their roads?

gagrice

It is a 2005 Allroad. Not sure which size. I do know the company builds an A4 Allroad with the 4 cylinder TDI. That would be my choice. I like the looks of the older models. That big mouth look is not real attractive to me.

I just want a replacement for my Sequoia for long trips. The Sequoia is comfortable. I just hate looking for a gas station every 300 miles. That is a pain in the butt. All the current German diesel SUVs get at least 500 mile range. I like to fill up, find a motel and get up very early and hit the road.

fintail

Is there a site where Toyota has spelled out exactly which parts of this concept will be reality?

Regarding BMW...I don't like many of their looks over the past decade...but my real annoyance is the typical BMW owner in my area. All Euro cars will attract a snob element, but BMWers seem to be the most annoying, especially the younger ones.

fintail

Well, if we ever get a diesel Alllroad, it will be a big mouth bass (as I call it), so you'll have to deal with it. It's not so bad, and the new style A4 wagon is pretty slick. Maybe Audi will ship over a diesel Q5 too, they already offer a diesel Q7.

iluvmysephia1

Mr. Powers.





For a long time I spouted that the best cars in my view were South Korean. But a lot of that view was really speaking of value quotient purely. Now I must say that anything and everything I like is most certainly Japanese. It's just working out that way. I will pursue and buy what I like, though, whichever country it comes from and from whatever carmaker happens to produce the car that provides the sporty and fun and beautiful car I am interested in. Period.

Just as sure as Gary Payton and not Michael Jordan is the best guard in the history of the professional basketball. Reason being is that nobody played both offense and defense both as hard and as well as Mr. Gary Payton. Period.