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Comments
I'll repeat what I said before; if you look at the statistical probabilities the issue is buried in the extreme tail of a bell curve. If you've got nothing else to worry about and live in this less than 1% curve tail, then just practice putting the car in neutral and turning the key back a click. On the other hand, maybe this is a convenient method to avoid worrying about the much greater risk of getting rear ended or broadsided in a traffic accident!
Face it, Toyota is still selling a lot of vehicles and making a nice profit - the propaganda isn't destroying them any more than the previous UAW push for them to build plants in the US did. Toyota is going to around for a long time and the Camry continues to be a top seller (oops, I guess the neighbors just haven't heard about all these incidents!).
Those fender benders are very much more numerous than those big claims.
When I had my Focus, the insurance premium for it was always more than my Explorer. Driver demographics and marketing (who can we make the most profit from?) definitely come into play.
There are numerous factors that determione auto insurance rates....Your gender, age, where you live, the distances you normally drive are a few, but not all.
I think Berri's point was valid, though. If a particular auto has definite tendencies to, say, catch fire and burn, then the insurance companies would take that into account when their actuaries do there calculations.
In fact, if I remember correctly, I think the first to raise the abnormal claims on Toyota UA issues was State Farm (several years ago).
Still, it would be interesting to get 2 quotes from your insurer for full coverage, one on a Toyota and one on a competitive model (same price range and features). I wonder if there would be much of a difference, or any difference.
And, what would it mean if the Toyota price was cheaper????
My guess it is cheaper to repair. When I had my Honda the body parts were a lot more expensive than my wife's Ford Escort. I have noted before my Sequoia insurance was less than my Passat. Even though the MSRP for the Sequoia was more than double the VW Passat. Generally smaller cars have higher premiums than PU trucks and large SUVs. One of the many factors that should be considered in buying a vehicle.
A valid point from a collision point-of-view, but what I was also referring to was the liability issue, where the insurance company must pay for the damage caused to other vehicles, people, etc.
I first noticed this trend way back with my 80 Accord. I was used to traditional laundry lists of option and was surprised to discover essentially no options other than those installed at the dealership available. Heck, I think at the time they only offered three colors!
I think I can still figure out a BXLE.
Bingo - so true. Economies of scale and simplicity save costs without sacrificing quality.
You wonder if Toyota's complex system of offering so many packages will last. Honda seems to get by with DX, LX, EX. Maybe an EX-L and EX-L Navi as well, but then the DX is dropped. So 3-4 models to manufacture.
Meanwhile, go shopping for a Sienna. CE-4, CE-V6, LE, XLE, Limited, SE, and oh, by the way, each of those has 6 options packages, so they make 36 models and STILL allow a-la-carte options for those 36.
Same here - the insurance on my Sienna dropped also. This is very recent - it's not even due until later this month.
The point you made is interesting, though. Insurance is perhaps an indirect indicator of collision costs, but it's an indicator nonetheless.
Another thing I find interesting - go shopping for extended warranties. I have, and despite my Toyota being the most complex in my fleet by a wide margin (power sliding doors, dual A/C, biggest engine, 8 seats, etc) it received the cheapest quote for a 7/100 warranty.
So FWIW the financial arm of the industry still sees the Sienna, at least, as very, very low risk.
http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/car-news/toyota_ft-86_sedan_ti- - - pped
Poor photochop-shop or not, that thing is a real looker. Wow. I am impressed. I have commented on more than one internet car site that I wish Toyota would build this car with 4-doors, too. Well, look at this news!
RWD, Toyo and Subie infrastructure and hopefully no out-of-control foot pedals and mis-placed floor mats to deal with anymore, and if priced intelligently(my price limit would be $25,000 for one of these cars), this would be a decent sedan. I would take one with a 6-speed manual and the popular 4-cyl both companies can economically plop in there in agreement that will move the thing along at a decent clip, and there you have it and there you go.
No more Toyota bashing from this padre. Unless the spirit just sort of moves me. 2013 is a ways off still.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100906/OEM04/309069992/1216- -
The lightweight two-door being developed with Toyota will give Subaru a needed image vehicle. The exterior of Subaru's version will differ from the Toyota. The rear-drive coupe is expected to be available with either Subaru's 2.0-liter, four-cylinder engine or the 2.5-liter turbocharged engine from the Impreza STI. It is unclear whether the car will be a 2012 or 2013 model.
Currently, all Subarus have all-wheel drive. It isn't known whether the new sports car will have that feature.
Subaru has a 2.0l boxer in Japan right now that produces 156hp. The STI engine they mention makes 305hp. That's too big of a gap, IMHO. I'd like to see the base engine at 180hp or so, maybe with Direct Injection. Or just give it one of the many turbo version of the EJ20 with 250hp or so.
305hp seems like total overkill, especially for such a small rear-driver.
If that's true, and the rumors of a $30k turbo sedan are true, that may just end up being the quickest sedan under $30 grand. The coupe would undercut the Mustang in price (plus it should be much lighter) yet easily outperform the Hyundai Genesis coupe. The sedan would virtually be in a class by itself.
Originally a roadster was rumored, so let's see if they do that as well.
Longevity, claim experience, and more can all affect the final premium.
I would think hell froze over b/c sporty, aggressive, stylish, etc and do not belong in the same sentence as Toyota!
That's what it's all about, car nuts. I defended Kia for years and feel they're on their way. Mitsubishi is planning a 2013 Lancer GTS Hybrid, and our 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS is running like an absolute champ and looking like a million bucks at the 61,667 mile mark. Love it still every bit as much as on March 21, 2007, when my wife and I and the saleslady took it out on to Avondale, AZ, streets during rush hour. Mitsu has done a great job with this rig, they really have.
But this FT-86 takes the excitement to buy an electric rig way back on my car list backburner, guys. I will definitely buy what I like and what I want. I won't just defend a certain brand to the death. It's all about enjoying great cars. One thing that would kill this one for me is if it does indeed price out at near $30,000. That won't work!
Gotta be in the $24,000-$25,000 price range, 6-speeds would be great ta return to, rowing through the gears again, oh yes.
Subaru has a 2.0l boxer in Japan right now that produces 156hp.
ateixiera-with the above 4-banger from Subaru I don't see why, with only just toned-down feature-fittment this rig shouldn't be able to retail for around $24,995. Definitely. I won't go above that pricepoint, I refuse. Hear that, Toy-Subie execs?
If you read the article they've already given it the checkered flag to build. It will just help compliment coupe sales so much. And the possible roadster, too.
Whoo-hoo! I have seen and slightly followed this car for a few years on the net and I am just stoked that those two carmakers collaborating together have decided to build the sedan FT-86. This might change everything. At least with my personal view of Toyota, but I think this car has further-reaching appeal, it's a unique and most stunning body style.
gagrice, hold up your Toyota bashing and read this news.
nippononly, what d'ya think, man? Does this pup float yer boat at-tall? :shades:
Put the same Rockford Fosgate 650-watt stereo in my '08 Lancer GTS has and the 10-inch boom-blaster in the trunk like that, K, Toy-Sube? Put it in straight from the factory. I love that stereo in my '08 Lancer GTS and would love ta have it in this sedan as well.
Boy Howdy!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
While I can appreciate your enthusiasm. There is NO sedan out there I would waste a penny on. I hate sedans. They are too much trouble getting in and out of. Give me a CUV, SUV or PU truck. The only exception would be a Porsche Carrera. I could live with the discomfort of ingress and egress for that kind of driving experience. Sorry the FT86 or the Mitsu does nothing for me. The only Japanese sports car that ever got my attention was the early Miata. I got over it when I watched a guy try to get a big computer monitor box in the front seat.
Oh yes we most certainly did. It was located under campershells and mated to Dolphin motor homes, mostly, from the late 70s to the early 80s. It had a 1-ton rating, and it was available with a diesel. But as you mentioned gagrice, Toyota dumped the global version for a "foo foo" North America-specific compact pick-up around 1985, which eventually became the Tacoma in the early 90s.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Cheap interiors with incredibly cheap switchgear and knobs, plain vanilla design and completely uninspired motors and drivetrains...that's where Toyota is at.
I have never witnessed a formerly world class company's products degrade in every quantifiable way so quickly and completely.
There is not a single new Toyota that we would remotely consider at nearly any price.
The CEO and other top officials of Toyota should truly resign in shame, and let people who are serious about competitive quality and pricing take their place.
Longevity, claim experience, and more can all affect the final premium.
True, but even within my own fleet, my Toyota is the cheapest of 3 vehicles we insure by far, despite being driven the most miles.
I think your wish will come true, especially if you only need the RWD version.
A long while ago a roadster was rumored, but now those rumors have been replaced with sedan rumors, and I doubt we'd get both.
For $2 grand less than Ody LX you get the 6 speed auto and a backup cam and 3-zone climate control on an LE-V6. They win on content by a landslide.
At least Honda made VCM standard. But you gotta spend over $40 grand at Honda to get a 6EAT. :sick:
Sienna is also quicker, with 266hp vs. 248hp. Toyota kills Honda on the powertrain IMHO.
They did cut costs on material quality, and Honda's does seem nicer, though I'll reserve final judgement til I see it in person. Dodge's van interior is even cheaper than Toyota's new Sienna, though.
The old Sienna was nicer, with padded materials that were replaced with hard ones. At least Toyota added lots of visible content (backup cam, ACC, transmission, etc).
completely uninspired motors and drivetrains
Not true at all in the case of the Sienna. It has class leading HP (by a comfortable margin) and you get a 6 speed auto standard.
Ya, I don't agree with this comment myself. Drivetrains still seem to be a strongpoint with Toyota IMO. The 3.5l V6 is a gem and probably one of the nicest and most powerful V6's in it's class and is capable of returning mid 20's fuel economy whole pumping out 270hp (give or take depending on application). Very, very reliable and durable engine. :shades:
Me, I would love a RWD version of this car with four doors. That would just be the sweetest. If Subaru offered only AWD in its version, I would have to go back to Toyota, something I swore I wouldn't do!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Even in my heavy minivan, the 2GR V6 reaches 60 mph in 7.0 seconds, vs. 8.5 seconds for the new Odyssey. 0-60 may not matter but which van would you choose to drive up a mountain side with a full load of 8 passengers plus cargo?
You'd think a fast engine in a heavy minivan would get miserable gas mileage, but no - I routinely get over 27mpg on trips, and have broken 30mpg on tank averages. My worst tank ever was 21.9 mpg. Oh, and on cheap 87 octane to boot.
Toyota is the powertrain leader in the minivan segment, and by a wide margin.
Let's see if the new Quest can challenge them. Nissan recommended premium fuel for the old one, IMHO they need to correct that.
Yeah, look at the Hyundai Genesis coupe, it's likely closest competitor. A turbo is standard (210hp), big V6 optional (306hp).
I think you're right, 156hp would pale next to the Gen coupe's 210hp base.
What if it got a 2.0T and a 2.5T? The old WRX made 227hp, the current STI makes 305hp. Make it 230hp base, 310 upgrade, just to beat Hyundai.
Hopefully they see it's worth investing since it's a joint venture with decent volume potential.
A long while ago a roadster was rumored, but now those rumors have been replaced with sedan rumors, and I doubt we'd get both.
Yep, RWD would be great...and I would go for the smaller 4-cyl 156 hp or whatever, and I would go for the $20,000 version. Realize this though, this sedan will be built of the FT-86. It would take a large design change, like scrapping the FT-86 coupe altogether, realizing the roadster may not come to fruition, yes. I'm thinking there's next ta no way that's gonna happen at this point. Toyota/Subaru execs have received gobs of enthusiastic feedback supportive of them building the FT-86.
I like those slanty headlights, though I don't know if that will be the final design, they're awfully slim. Who knows, though? Cool rig. Needs 4 doors, though.
I think the appeal here to me (one of them, anyway) is that even if one tones this pup down a lot, it will still look hotter than a firecracker. Think about the grey one here and then tone it down in your mind a mush or three for production. Yep, it's still gonna knock some socks off, eh?
I'm just glad to see the enthusiasm at Toyota, because for me it's another Lancer GTS, possibly a '13 Lancer GTS Hybrid model, or one of these. Right now, that's a kid in a very, very upscale candyshop, at middle income prices. No?
They've just got ta build a $19,995 smaller 4-banger 4-dr. FT-86, gentlemen. Gotts-ta!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
It's surpassed by these engines:
Ford 3.5l EcoBoost, 365 HP, 25 mpg hwy (AWD)
GM 3.6l Direct Injection, 302 HP, 27 mpg hwy
Btw, nice of them to catch up to an engine that was introduced 5 years ago... :P
Would be amazing to see Toyota actually build something a driving enthusiast might consider though...it's been awhile.
The only thing Toyota gives to this project is the inspiration (FT-86, off the much-revered, much-drifted AE86 RWD Corollas of the 80s). Well that, and Toyota was trying out a way to bring back the Celica in a way that had some cred.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
This thing would be darn tempting even with "just" two doors. But it has to be under $25K, it has to be RWD, and it has to have a nice tall overdrive gear for highway driving, so it can pull a 35 mpg highway rating.
And all things being equal, I would rather buy one with the Subaru badge on it, but if Subaru only offers AWD, I will have to go with the Toyota version.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
What I said, if you were truly paying attention and not just applying selective listening, is that my rates went down. Same vehicle, mind you, but they're lower now after the SUA hype then they were before.
Plus vehicle cateogory explains a low insurance rate, but not the lowest price for extended warranties that I've also observed.
In terms of things-that-could-break, you have a vehicle the most features used by the greatest number of people (and kids) who take the least care of them.
GM 3.6l Direct Injection, 302 HP, 27 mpg hwy
Ecoboost is a turbo, now you're comparing apples to oranges. When you look at normally aspirated versions of the 3.5l engine Toyota's beats Ford's by a few HP (compare Fusion to Camry, for instance).
As for GM's Direct Injection engine, Toyota has one also (2GR-FSE), and it makes more than 302hp (2GR-FSE makes 303-306hp).
Nice try, though.
Let me look...
CR 2010 Buying Guide lists the CTS 3.6l upgraded DI engine at 304hp, while the Lexus IS350 makes 306hp.
Powertrains are more than competitve. RAV4 has led its class in output since it came out in 2006, only now are competitors beginning to catch up. Sienna still leads its class in output, since 2007, and that won't change even for model year 2011. I won't even mention hybrid leadership.
How someone can interpret being #1 as not competitive is beyond me.
Aug 10
123,488
Aug 09
88,760
up 39%
YTD 10
836,315
YTD 09
507,080
up 65%
Overall North American output is up 34% for the month of August and up 61%. Good news, and Toyota managed to outpace both those numbers.
Wonder if Canada/Mexico sales are better than USA sales?
The Caddy produces that HP using Regular Unleaded. The IS350 requires Premium.
Engine won't self destuct like what's happneing with Caddy SRX's... :shades:
The better of these two sportsters for myself would be the RWD, 6-spd. manual Toyota FT-86 with adequate options on board but not overboard options. And with a red paint job like this FT-86 concept car has applied to it, too!
More reading I've done on the net has produced lots of banter that the base FT-86 from Toyota will price out at about $20,000 and be RWD.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Rates can drop as vehicles get older, they are just not worth as much.
The company could have gotten more efficient and passed the savings on to you or dropped their margin.
Maybe other rates for other minivans dropped more.
There are a lot of factors that affect why a number changed.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Plus, the original point was and remains - the 2GR-FSE is indeed a competitive powertrain, both powerful and efficient.
I like the G37, but lately that evolution of the wonderful VQ series V6 has been tuned to the point of sounding like a strangled mongoose. Nothing like the less powerful but smoother 3.0l predecessor.
Maybe call it the Scion bT, boxer Turbo? Something more clever, perhaps.
My insurance rates were already low and have dropped further. Rates for other Toyota owners here have also dropped.
The rates for extended warranties for Toyota are probably the cheapest in the whole industry, too.
Both these facts remain unchallenged.