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Comments
Any how, it's funny that in 2010 what was important to you guys was that overall Toyota sales were flat, even though Lexus grew that didn't seem to matter to anyone.
Now that Toyota sales are doing well, that's not important, what's important are Lexus sales!
Love the consistency here! LOL
Also note some big gains came from the very expensive Tundra (up 56%, wow!), which sells in the same price range as the volume Lexus models, so revenues were up HUGE.
Fleet sales were down from 25% to around 18%. So the more profitable retail sales lifted Toyota substantially. Retail sales actually beat December's, and January is usually a slow month. That bodes well for their momentum for 2011.
Who beat Toyota's 17.3%?
GM, Chrysler, Hyundai.
But Toyota beat most manufacturers, including Ford (up 9%, up 13% excluding Volvo), Honda, Nissan, VW, and Mazda.
Per Automotive News Toyota spent less on incentives than they did in December, and about $400 less per vehicle than the industry average.
People can nit-pick all they want, but overall that's a good month.
They're doing OK with a dated lineup, and new products are in the pipeline.
The retuned IS-F and LF-A actually earn them respect among enthusiasts, opening the market for them.
The new IS and GS can only do better than their predecessors. Lexus finally gets that these have to be tuned to perform, too.
The CT200h has perfect timing - the DOE is forecasting $4 gas in July.
They're in a position to gain sales from both ends of the spectrum.
Realistically, then, the outlook is positive.
The LF-A receives its share of criticism, too.
The economy is also still slow (and jacked up gas prices will only exacerbate that), and the HS has failed to turn any heads...the marketers better have a good plan for the 30K+++ hatchback CT in the NA market.
Question is, for the $30k price, and with a hybrid drivetrain, it's not exactly going to bring them a big profit margin.
The HS may not turn heads but it outsells its closest competitors (MKZ hybrid) about 2 to 1.
Lincoln is the brand that's doing poorly. Edit: yep, down 21% from already bad numbers in 2010. Miserably is more like it.
I actually want to like the CT - it's pretty daring for the beige L, but I think optioned up to be cool, it will carry some sticker shock - especially if they try to make a profit with the strong Yen behind it. I don't know if that auto show attention can carry the note.
Lincoln is still in business? Oh yeah, they have a weirdly proportioned sedan, a livery/elderly queen, and a baby got back van kinda thing. And the big SUV too, maybe.
At the auto show you heard crickets chirping at the Lincoln stand.
To be honest the whole show was not well attended (Philly), though I went on a Monday. Still, not a good sign for the industry.
Regarding selling at a loss-- well, we are not talking about the Det 3 here and more specifically Govt Motors and GovChrysler !! :shades:
Folks just want to bash Toyota even when facts prove otherwise . Just irrational hatred !!
It's more about greening the image, for PR sake.
Also, since it uses a lightly modified Prius drivetrain, that means a plug-in variant is just a green light away.
And no, it's not a Prius clone - different platform, shorter wheelbase (ironically), and it has a double wishbone rear suspension rather than the Prius' cheaper torsion beam.
Hybrids buyers want MPG first and foremost. If you're not delivering that, people are simply not interested. The Accord V6 hybrid failed, yet the Camry and Fusion hybrids soldier on, for instance.
I suspect the CR-Z's so-so mileage also have hurt its sales. I'm tellin' ya, Honda should ditch the batteries and come out with a new CR-X. Rumor mill says the new Civic will get a 200hp 2.4l, can you imagine that engine in a CR-X? It would be too good to be true.
For whatever reason, around here prestige equals German when it comes to premium priced sedans. Definitely Deutschland über alles. The surgeon's wife might drive an RX, but the good doctor himself almost always drives something like a 5-series BMW or an E-class Benz. And Audi is now the hot brand - the new black, in fashion terms. I'm seeing a lot more of them than I did 4 or 5 years ago.
S-class Mercedes outnumbers the Lexus LS 4 or 5 to 1
I realize that varies by region, but LS sales are actually pretty close to S-class sales nationally. It's more like 1.1 to 1.
It may be fair to say old money would seek German luxury. But that means young buyers are buying Lexus, and they'll live longer to buy more ... you got it - Lexus cars.
Edit: found the 2010 sales numbers:
S-class: 13,608
Lexus LS: 12,275
BMW 7: 12,253
1.1 to 1, like I said. And Lexus actually beat BMW's 7.
Fun yes, but it would take AWD to make it even better.
But a 2.3 litre aluminum block turbo diesel with AWD and 5 or 6 speed manual trans is what it would take to make it too good to be true...IMO of course.
Aside from all the obvious advantages of AWD in on slippery hills, it's also one of the best ways to manage torque steer in hp:weight FWD cars.
Actually, put that combo in a 4 door Civic that has had great attention to reduce road and wind noise (and obvious effort for engine noise) and I would stand in line for it. The (slight) extra db of the diesel I could so live with in a pkg like that.
Of course I have said the same about the Jetta or Golf, yet VW has still never offered AWD. In the turbo 'gas' yes, but not the diesel. And it is so frustrating. The diesel would provide the extra torque and fuel mileage to offset the extra parasitic losses of the AWD driveline.
Sounds like fun, though. LOL
Diesel may be too heavy. The CR-X was light first and foremost. The new one has to be light.
Honda is more likely to bring us a diesel CR-V, I think.
Back to Toyota - they have their eggs in the hybrid basket. I think they would be smart to perhaps leave diesels up to Subaru, who has a diesel Forester in Europe. Bring that here. I don't see it cannibalizing the RAV4.
Stick with hybrids and let Subaru go diesel, to hedge their bets a little.
Subaru is positively kicking asphalt, by the way. 2009 was a record year. 2010 beat that record by a wide margin. January 2011 just set the record for January by a wide margin. They just keep growing and growing, no end in sight.
FWIW Toyota does not include Subaru sales in its totals because they own a minority stake.
For Toyota's sake, I hope so. But the 30-somethings of my acquaintance all aspire to owning a 3-series BMW. I can't remember ever hearing a young guy say, "I'd rather have a Lexus IS".
IMO, that's a major weakness in the Lexus lineup.
The new IS is crucial - I've mentioned before. It has to be a legitimate sports sedan. Not just something you buy after you've owned a Corolla S.
The Lightning Lap results for the IS-F prove the Lexus is capable.
Now it's like the Nike commercial: Just Do It.
Corolla good, Camry pretty good, Prius great (gas prices, told ya).
RAV4 wow, Highlander wow, 4Runner also great. Tundra wow, Tacoma so-so.
Scion tC did well, so that means the xB and xD did poorly.
Lexus lost most of its volume from its cars. Trucks were merely flat.
So basically they did well in the middle segments, poorly with econoboxes and high-end.
Next GS will debut Spring of 2012, but will have a 12-13" Navi screen. BMW has I think 10" now, but Benz' 8" screen is actually easier to read. These screens are gorgeous, though. Right now the GS hybrid is special order only.
CT forecast is for 12k sales per year.
RX used to be 50-55% of sales, now closer to 40%. They still rely on it too much.
2. Altima 16,454 (includes coupe)
3. Fusion 14,346
4. Accord 13,456 (includes coupe, excludes Crosstour)
5. Sonata 13,261
Wow, Hyundai might pass Honda. In fact I bet they sold more sedans, because the totals include Accord coupes.
Look at the discrepancy between the Camry and Accord ... wow!
RAV4 wow, Highlander wow, 4Runner also great. Tundra wow, Tacoma so-so.
Tundra wow...even with a 56% increase they only mustered 6000 units im sure toyota brass is not as impressed as you lol
And you can say there are quite a few wannabe's who want to drive luxury sport cars , cant afford the higher ones and go for the 3 series. And surgeons here drive around in Lexus LS 460L's. So whats the point?? You are entitled to your opinion but that doesnt mean it's gospel.
RX is the sales leader for Lexus as they basically created that segment in 1999 and still dominate there.And Audi may be getting relatively popular in NYC but not so elsewhere. And it's so far down the chart ,it is just a fringe player.
I usually attend the Vancouver show each year, but last year it was maybe a third smaller than in previous years - I don't know if I will spend the time this year. The Seattle show is smaller, and in November for some reason.
This kind of dorkiness doesn't help the CT, IMO
Go to London, Paris, Moscow, Shanghai, et al, and see what wheels money likes. The adoration of the swoopy L is very much an American ideal.
Beat the 7 by 22 units? But priced at how many thousands less?
Those Toyota blandbox owners moving up to plusher beige vehicles doesn't give much of a "young" image to me, sounds more like greying boomers cashing out when they can.
No, it's what I'm actually seeing in my import-friendly NYC suburb. Keep in mind that I don't harbor a prejudice against Lexus; my wife drives one & likes it.
I don't doubt that Lexus is more popular in the South, where the population is generally older & poorer.
And Audi may be getting relatively popular in NYC but not so elsewhere. And it's so far down the chart ,it is just a fringe player.
You're probably 2 or 3 years behind us. Trends begin in NY & Southern California & then move inland. Just wait & see.
So whats the point?? You are entitled to your opinion but that doesnt[sic]mean it's gospel.
Did I ever say it was? You should learn how to disagree without being rude. You're taking this much too seriously.
That is after 6000 Tundra's sold in January 2011. 75k annualized rate. That is up from 3500 January 2009.
Trends beginning in NYC and filtering down ?? Again , a blanket biased statement with no evidence. Audi will always remain a fringe player. Why ??- Poor limited dealer network,horrendous reliability and limited brand appeal. it is what it is inspite of your liking to Audi.
Learn to disagree without being rude ?? I would suggest practice before anyone preaches. Your disdain for anyone wanting a comfy,cozy ride and not wanting the jittery,road and steering feel is documented. Pot calling the kettle black.
I am not taking anything seriously.. Just stating the facts.
That comment would imply that you have never actually been to Germany.
There, BMW is much more like GM here, in that they offer a much broader line of vehicles than what they offer in the USA... from basic transportation to Luxury... same as with Mercedes Benz.
Your comment is much the same as saying Chevrolet doesn't make a true sports car (Corvette) because they sell models much more bland, or that Cadillac isn't viewed as a luxury brand because GM makes Aveos...
Also the Tundra was a serious try from the 07 year onwards. the previous 01-06 Tundra was not really a work horse. The 04 Tundra I have is quite pleasurable to drive and not rel truck like and it is not a real heavy duty truck. But the 07 Tundra was really getting into it and the 2014 Tundra will be much better I guess. Whether sales can improve even further -- will have to wait and watch.
Why does Lexus fare so poorly outside of NA?
Luxury cars, NY and southern CT, lead the way.
The concentration of wealth in a small radius is huge.
Think of a car like you would a cell phone, as far as financial impact.
I'm not disagreeing that a MB or BMW is a better handling car even if the Lexus may be a bit better in reliability, but several factors may also enter into it. Lexus doesn't have as good of a dealership network or brand identification outside of the NA, and of course various regional bigotries.
Steady there, big fella. You're obviously excited. Take a deep breath & calm down.
As I've said before, the only things really worth arguing about are books, music & single-malt Scotch. Cars just don't matter that much.
The Lexus problems in my eyes are: boring or bad design, iffy driving characteristics, no performance cachet, and in Europe, overpriced.
Ford sells about 75k Mustangs a year.
Multiple choice test follows.
Toyota equivilant sells
A. zero
B. zero
C. zero
D. All of the above.
Take shot. You can't go wrong.
You used that one on me recently, Jim. I never got around to mentioning that I agreed with you on that point..especially the latter two..so thought I would do it now.
Music covers huge boundaries. Scotch is not as cut 'n dried, as I have sampled some very impressive 'blends'. The colours (colors) red and black first come to mind.