Toyota on the mend?

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    To qualify for the HOV sticker in CA the vehicle has to be CNG or LNG only. No cheatin with flex fuel. Conversions that will run on CNG, LNG or propane and gasoline do not get the HOV sticker.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There's a couple of feet of crumple space, but best not to tail gate a CNG taxi! :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So then that would not work in Cali, given I'm sure that's one of the big reasons for going that route.

    Cali is funny, first they force EVs, then they have rolling blackouts because they have shortages of electricity. :D
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    LA is insane. I've seen bumber to bumper traffic crawling along as late as 1-2 in the morning. That is 1-2 AM!!! On the freeway.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,069
    I flew into LA for a show in Anaheim. Due to delays I ended up landing around midnight. I thought, well at least there will be no traffic... boy was I shocked!!

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Wikipedia has a list of Toyota manufacturing facilities. I didn't decode the engine plants.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    With Nissan up 25%, VW up 35%, Chrysler up 50%, GM up 20% and Ford up 9%, what happened to HonToy? Nissan from initial reports after the Tsunami was the hardest hit. So that is no longer a good excuse.

    Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today reported September sales of 121,451 units. With 25 selling days in September 2010 and 2011, sales were down 17.5 percent over the year-ago month on both a daily selling rate (DSR) and unadjusted raw volume basis.

    Toyota Division recorded September sales of 106,456 vehicles, a decrease of 18.2 percent from the year-ago month. Lexus Division reported September sales of 14,995 units, a decrease of 11.5 percent from last year.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    A bland beige product line and people holding out for the new Camry maybe
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2011
    Nissan did OK but Infiniti gets more cars from Japan and they were only up 2% or so, so they lost market share as well. The G was up 29%, and we all know that's G25 sales, since it's the new model. So not really a good results for them.

    Luxury Sales U.S:

    BMW +19.3% - 21,750 - mini not included
    Mercedes +9% - 21,649 - sprinter/smart not included
    Lexus -11.5% - 14,995
    Buick +5.6% - 13,599
    Cadillac +1% - 12,741
    Acura -6.6% - 10,010
    Audi +19.3% - 9725
    Infiniti +2.1% - 8479
    Lincoln -6.6% - 7018
    Volvo +21.4% - 5042
    Land Rover +10% - 2740
    Porsche +10% - 2170
    Jaguar +14.9% - 1111
    Saab -61% - 429
    Maserati +46% - 199
    Bentley +17% - 151

    Japan production had a lousy month all around.

    fin is right, they sold 6k fewer Camrys. Also 5k fewer Corollas, which surprises me because I see tons of them around here.

    What else? RAV4 had a STUNNING drop in sales, from 14,685 last year to 7649 this year. Yikes!

    Lexus cars were actually up about 800 units, but RX lost about 2400 units.

    Faberge Egg haters, rejoice!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    More useless trivia:

    Acura sold 43 RLs and 87 ZDXs. Why even bother?

    Saab sold 191 9-5s and 48 9-4x models. :D

    Veloster - 834
    CRZ - 537

    Kia up 37% YTD, beat their annual record already, 3 months early.

    Soul - 6,666
    xB - 1,415

    Guess who is taking Japan's market share? Korea...
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,792
    Is this your way of finally admitting Toyota Corp has a sales problem?
    The Altima almost matched the Camry in sales September!
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I founded a Subaru club, remember. No skin off my back if Toyota loses sales, as I don't own stock or anything like that.

    Maybe if they focused on their bread-and-butter lineup they wouldn't spoil Subaru's DNA by forcing a non-AWD car in to Subaru's lineup. Bastages. ;)

    Subaru has supply issues too, they were down 2%, though their last 2 years were record breakers. They have supply problems with the Forester because it's only made in Japan. Japanese automakers are hurting, no question.

    Any how, Toyota needs to refresh the bread-and-butter models. Camry, Corolla, and RAV4 accounted for, what, 18,000 lost sales vs. a year ago?

    New Camry is here. 1 out of 3 resolved.

    Per wiki "The tenth generation of the Corolla was introduced in October 2006" but I'm guessing it launched in Japan first. Not sure when the USA got it (Edit: MY2009 in USA), but a 5 year cycle would mean a new one is due exactly right now. The US model was lightly refreshed with the bulging headlights, but is that all it's getting? The design is 5 years old, time for a clean sheet, IMHO.

    RAV4 seems old, let's see. Yep, launched for MY2006. I would expect a new one very soon. I never liked it, because the barn door opens the wrong way, blocking the curb side loading. Stupid design. That's actually what drove me in to a Sienna - it was nicer inside and has a lift gate.

    So RAV4 is overdue, but Corolla may have to wait a model year or two. They're lucky the Civic fumbled, but Elantra and Focus may steal a few sales.

    New CR-V is arriving so they'd better hurry the RAV4 redesign.

    Toyota's 3 best selling models are stale, 5+ years old, basically.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    {tongue in cheek}

    To further my conspiracy theory that any Asian share loss is staying in Asia...

    6k fewer Camrys => 4k more Optimas

    5k fewer Corollas => 4k more Elantras

    7k fewer RAV4s => 3500 more Tuscon/SF and 1700 more Sportage/Sorento

    Coincidence? ;)

    Buddy at work just traded his Civic for a Tucson.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    IMO, the RAV4 is a class leading powertrain bolted to a fantastic, tossable chassis, looking for an interior design worthy of the pricetag...

    I got 26mpg on an extended drive with a V6 Sport. Would have bought it had the interior been worthy of the 28k sticker. I think the Yaris was nicer, lol. Oh and the RAV4 seats are terrible.

    Still 270hp and 26mpg is a notable achievement. The thing was a rocket. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I could not agree more, in fact I fell in love with that V6 and that led me to my Sienna. I still don't think you get the same balance of power and fuel economy anywhere else.

    Sienna still is CR's most fuel efficient minivan, and RAV4 V6 is the most efficient among the upgrade engines in its class, too. And ... surprise! Both are also the quickest! :shades:

    But yeah, the RAV4 interior is lacking. It has a lot of hard surfaces were my Sienna is softer, and the carpets are thinner, too. The headliner feels like dryer lint on cardboard, while my Sienna has a nice fabric with a padded backing. Night and day difference in fit and finish.

    Toyota cut some costs out of the new Sienna as well, but it caught up to them so they supposedly reversed that trend with the new Camry (which I have yet to see in person).

    I'm not sure I'd buy the new Sienna, in fact I think I'd look for a CPO 2010 Sienna if I were in the market now. The new Sienna is cheaper, the Ody is just odd and you have to spend $40k plus to get a 6EAT, the Grand Caravan is about half way there in terms of interior updates, and while Kia put in a nice drive train, what they need is a full redesign that looks like the KV7 concept. Quest is too "mini", you lost a full 10" in cargo length. There is no van I'd buy today, sadly.

    KV7:

    http://www.insideline.com/kia/kv7/
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,792
    The Hybrid model seems to be noticeably improved and some of the other higher line models have dropped in price.
    Camry has a good chance of gaining back market share.
    Corolla is another story.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2011
    The Quest shrunk? That's a good thing. :-) Doesn't matter, my '99 won't die anyway (166,500 as of today).

    The lagging RAV4 sales surprise me. I figured the pep would keep people buying them over any other issues it may have. It is really a refresh or marketing or lack of buyers issue, or a supply problem?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,792
    It could be a parts supply issue. Someone at work has theirs in the shop to fix some front and rear damage.
    They have been driving a Civic loaner/rental since a week ago Monday.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Have you seen it in person yet? I think the first allotments are arriving in dealers now. Not that I even shop sedans...

    The significant thing is that the Camry underpins just about every other vehicle of theirs, so a good update means we should soon see a better Avalon, Highlander, and yes, even ES.

    RAV4 is on a different platform, so we'll see what they do. I think it overlaps too much with the Highlander. Ditch the token 3rd row, make it lighter and more efficient. The next Highlander could grow slightly, and they'd be properly differentiated.

    Corolla we'll also have to wait and see. The new Yaris was much improved, massively improved IMHO. I hated the old center-mounted gauges.

    Basically their volume lineup is ripe for replacement.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The lagging RAV4 sales surprise me

    Most of them are built in Japan, so probably supply. Let me look...yeah, Edmunds members are reporting shortages in some places:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef1843b/3573#MSG3573

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef1843b/3578#MSG3578

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef1843b/3579#MSG3579

    The phenomenon is regional though because the local dealer shows 53 in stock. I wonder if the Mid Atlantic doesn't get the JDM supply?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The big news is this:

    Entune is currently compatible with Android, Blackberry and iPhone smartphones

    That means no monthly bill, possibly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Toyota Sept 99,873 119,463 -16%

    YTD 796,681 955,962 -17%
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    YTD 796,681 955,962 -17%

    Well deserved after last year, as well as the GM-ification of Toyota. But I suspect they'll react much better and faster than GM did.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well written:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/13/2012-lexus-lfa-review/

    I have a greyhound mix, so I understood this part quite well:

    Have you ever seen how a dog reacts at the park the moment its owner releases the leash? Think about the precise second when man's best friend notes its freedom and sprints madly away, as if it has never seen an open patch of earth. The Lexus must contain a molecule of canine DNA because it seemed to sense the open road in front of it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Was that a piece of sales material? :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I thought it was balanced...he criticizes the punishing ride and reaches a harsh conclusion:

    performance slightly pales when pitted head-to-head against many of today's rivals

    He should've driven the 'Ring edition. ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,792
    Other than the 'On the Ring' running by itself video, can you find one where the LF-A bests the competition head to head?
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    I think a couple weeks after that record, some kind of Viper came around and beat it. Easy come, easy go
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2011
    A non-street legal Viper that was race prepped by Mintgen Motorsports on race slick tires and has been out of production for 2 years. Did you miss the (obvious) aftermarket front spoiler with all those little side wings?

    You call that a production record? LOL

    Remember, the LF-A was on Bridgestone street legal tires.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Looks like Ford was impacted in Thailand also.

    Floods in Thailand are disrupting the production process for automakers with operations there.

    Toyota Motor ( TM - news - people ), Ford Motor Co. ( F - news - people ) and Honda Motor Co. ( HMC - news - people ) have all shut down or suspended production at components plants in the Ayutthaya region.
    Article Controls

    The flooding is worst in that particular province, and operations in some other regions have not been affected.

    Separately, Ford said today shipments to China rose 10% in the first nine months of the year.
    forbes
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    edited October 2011
    A rough old Viper ACR, model that could be ordered via any dealer, prepped by a little team vs a megalomaniacal corporation. And what car held the record before the 10 year gestation Toyota came along?

    I've read some discussion that the tires on the LFA weren't exactly off the rack either.

    And of course, Gumpert and Radical are still ahead.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Different rules. Production vs. a race car.

    To be fair, Dodge sells the ACR specifically to race shops, so no surprise we see a full-blown race version attacking the 'ring. That's great, I'm impressed. I took them 2 years worth of modifications to reach that goal. I'd love to see the long list of changes from OEM.

    Production? Perhaps Dodge will launch a Dodge Viper ACR Mintgen Edition to properly claim its title.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would hope with a base price of $375k the LF-A would not use the cheapo tires they put on their $50k vehicles.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They're still street legal, but that's about all they'd have in common.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Where is the guide on what is production and what is not? Seems all one would have to do is the latter, which is all Toyota did after the decade long gestation period. Seems almost like a matter of semantics.

    And others were faster anyway, just as much are cheaper (and no doubt Toyota loses six figures on every sale). I hope the the next hyped actual sporty car is a little more endearing.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    These 2 had different approaches.

    Lexus sent their own crew to tune a special edition for production. They engineered a whole new model variant. It happened to break the production record on street legal tires, and is now available for sale.

    Dodge sold a car to a race shop, who spent 2 years tinkering with everything they could to make it go faster. The went quicker with their modified car, which is not available for sale. The car that was the basis they began with went out of production nearly 2 years ago.

    You be the judge.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    One buys a race shop and has the insanely expensive car tuned (on tires that apparently can't be bought or compared), one is tuned by a technically detached shop. Seems like 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

    And a couple of other cars said to be in the same class still beat them both.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lexus' official response was:

    “The standard tires for the vehicle, Bridgestone Potenza RE070, were used.”

    Denial ain't just a river in Egypt...

    Also, the LF-A was indeed street legal, it even had German tags K066941. So under uber-strict German rules it was indeed registered for street use.

    Mintgen Motorsports and Lexus GmbH are like apples and oranges. Akira Iida has been a test pilot for Lexus since 2002.

    Mintgen was dumb - they ran theirs with Michigan and Texas license plates. You know more about this than I do - are those plates valid in Germany? :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Germany allows many plates for testing purposes. Pretty much all you have to do is complete the paperwork. Why do you think so many test their vehicles there?

    Was it at autoblog that some were debating if these tires actually existed, as the exact ones on the car couldn't be bought off the shelf? If you have someone custom make a tire for you, who knows what it might really be vs what is seen on the label. We all know corporations never lie, and that Toyota is desperate to get some recognition for its insanely expensive baby with a decade of development. The official response...just as according to the official American response, there were indeed WMDs :shades:

    Lexus GmbH is simply the German market Toyolex entity. Test pilot? Funny.

    And again, others have beat this thing anyway.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But Mintgen did not get plates.

    Trailer queen. :P

    Nice conspiracy about the tires.

    Lexus GmbH is simply the German market Toyolex entity.

    Yes and not some race shop that Lexus bought last week, like you implied. That was my point. It was an in-house project.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Didn't get or didn't try? I think the US plates were used as a statment of "Made in America" more than anything else.

    And the tuning talent was simply bought and taken in house rather than kept as a legally different entity. I sincerely doubt the tuners are cradle to grave Toyolex workers. More a matter of technicality and semantics than anything else.

    No matter what, the LF-A, for all of its precise engineering and weird looks, is not setting the world upon its head.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There's no way you'd accept it unless Lexus handed you the keys right off the assembly line and you drove it at the record pace yourself.

    And the tuning talent was simply bought and taken in house

    Like AMG? ;)

    More to the point, Lexus is giving true performance a higher priority and it's showing on their IS-F, LF-A, and surprisingly even on early GS reviews. Trickle down effect?

    Car & Driver criticized BMW for softening the new 5 series and wrote that the new GS may even occupy the slot it vacated.

    Hyperbole, perhaps, but it still says a lot.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Why should I accept it? Because corporate propagandists who would sell their mother for a dollar say it is true?

    Yes, AMG is a bought out tuning department. Not really relevant to the story here though, and at least it operates a distinct facility. Many firms have done this, and others have not.

    Could Lexus cars have any less driver involvement than in the past/present? ANYTHING has to be an improvement, and I'm not using hyperbole in saying that - the cars could literally not be more boring and beige. The previous GS was more or less a failure because of this.

    Will the new GS even exist in any market with a manual, wide powertrain choices, etc? Until then, meh. Of course, our wonderful ad-sponsored motoring press will match up some GS-A V8 prototype with a base automatic 528i without sport or anything, and call it a revolution. I will wait for something from non-American media.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,792
    What do you think about Toyota going Le Mans racing, but not with the LF-A?
    I think it be great to add a 3rd competitor to LMP1.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, put it this way, you don't buy new cars, so you're not the one they're trying to impress. I guess your vote doesn't count. :P

    Many others are more open-minded than you and don't share the same biases. Top Gear USA took an LFA to a track and gushed about it, so it's not getting the cold shoulders the Toyota haters in this thread have given it.

    I like the direction Lexus is heading in. The IS-F, the LFA, now the new GS is lighter and sportier, etc. All progress.

    LeMans involvement is good, again one would hope for trickle-down. As opposed to NASCAR (where's the face palm emotorcon?).

    our wonderful ad-sponsored motoring press will match up some GS-A V8 prototype

    Nope, the V8 option is gone for now, just a lighter 2GR-FSE V6 and a hybrid.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm a bit disappointed, the concept was so much more interesting:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/18/are-you-the-new-toyota-prius-c/

    Still, if it really does manage 60mpg the geeks are going to be lining up for these things.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    If I have to look at it, I will cast my vote. You're never going to be in the market for one either :P

    I am not saying the LF-A isn't an excellent car, there is a difference between excellence and revolutionary. It's not the latter, and IMO with a 10 year development period, it maybe should have been.

    Lexus couldn't become less sportier - that's the point. Anything has to be an improvement. We will see how that GS competes in like for like. Previous one fell off sharply after the newness wore off.
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