Toyota on the mend?

1283284286288289319

Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    Not as dorky looking as the normal Prius anyway. If I had to pick an actual efficient Toyota hybrid (as opposed to the pointless LS600), I'd get CT.

    Funny line about the C I read elsewhere:

    "That prius C styling is a total ripoff. the rear is the Mazda5. the front is Ford Fiesta. and the bit in between is like a slide transition in powerpoint. "
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Perhaps not revolutionary to the overall market. Well, besides the trick dash. Supposedly analog gauges could not keep up with the engine, which revs to redline in less than half a second. :shades:

    Besides that, revolutionary only in that it came from Toyota, and all the good and bad that implies, too.

    Some of their efforts I see as pure marketing (NASCAR for instance), but LFA, LeMans, that stuff I think carries deeper significance within the organizational soul.

    Did I just say soul? Guess I did...LOL.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually the front reminded me of the Hyundai Veloster.

    Mazda5 no longer has the vertical tail lights, but I miss them, as the new Nagare-themed 5 is just bland and unattractive.

    The profile actually looks a lot like Toyota's own Prius V.

    I'm disappointed in the interior: center-mounted gauges strike again, yuck.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    The GT-R dash was/is also slick, but it is a curiosity, not an industry-redefining element.

    I have always thought Toyota's soul died with the Supra. It's also then that the really bland Lexus products were born.

    I think what we have today is simply a realization that at least the impression of a soul (a base German car is bland too, but it still carries some cachet) is very helpful in this very competitive marketplace.

    IIRC the Prius C concept was a lot cooler than the finished product. I loathe center gauges too. Now it's blanded up and derivate at best -which sadly is what the target market seems to like.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    realization that at least the impression of a soul ... is very helpful in this very competitive marketplace.

    Bingo. Could not agree more.

    A little trickle-down would not hurt, either.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    Competition improves all. To Lexus I say, bring it on! :shades:
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I was reading through some auto stuff and supposedly All-Par has a techical bulletin that there are possible piston and ring problems on a series of Toyota four bangers causing excesive oil consumption. Included the 07-09 Camry, some RAV-4's and Scions? If this is true, its pathetic and discouraging. Toyota 4 cylinder cars were always thought of as bullet proof other than the few affected by sludge. I think this Wantabe character may have really eroded Toyota quality during his reign.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The one thing about the GS I was happy to read was that the overall weight went down, reversing the trend towards bloat.

    I remember when I was young telling myself I wanted cars to remain below 3000 lbs, sadly now the goal is more like 4000 lbs. :sick:

    I want an Elise. How are used ones priced?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    First I've heard.

    Isn't All-Par a Mopar site, though? Not an unbiased source.

    That's like asking Obama if he trusts Perry or Romney.

    FWIW True Delta's reliability results for the 07 Camry put it on top of its class. Percent of owners with a problem-free experience:

    07 Camry 80%
    07 Fusion 67%
    07 Accord 78%
    07 Altima 86%

    Actually Altima does a little better. Corolla is up there at 79%.

    Odds of getting a lemon are below 1% for the Toyotas, i.e. tied for best in class.

    I think if engines were truly burning oil we'd see this reflected in that survey.

    TrueDelta publishes data in real-time (I supply data several times per year to them) and has a good screening process to register. That information was updated as of yesterday. CR will show similar results in April.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    So what does it weigh now, only 4400lbs? :shades:

    I think the little Lotus somehow has strong resale...not something I would want to buy used as I suspect many are thrashed.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2011
    C&D estimated curb weight at 3850 lbs, which is impressive for its class. The old one was 4200 or so IIRC. Pretty significant diet.

    I bet they're way off and it's more like 2 tons even.

    Around here they (Elises) are high school gifts for grads. Sad waste of a light weight sport car.

    Don't tell my wife but my first crush was on a girl named Elise, so I think there's a certain romantic/nostalgic appeal for me, too.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Around here they (Elises) are high school gifts for grads :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was in my Miata, looked over at a yellow one, some pimple-faced kid behind the wheel. Oh, man... :lemon:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    edited October 2011
    I wonder what a 2002 GS weighed. 3850 is pretty ambitious, I have to be skeptical too. i don't think it is any smaller, and I doubt it is made of carbon fiber and titanium.

    Kid you saw could have just been sneaking around in daddy's toy. Any parent who buys something like that as a grad gift needs to be investigated, something wrong there. could be worse though, go to Vancouver (and to a much lesser extent here) and see the children of sketchy Chinese officials who have fled with their embezzled fortunes before the guillotine blades fall, posing around in new Maseratis, Astons, and Ferraris, not to mention tuned X6s, Rovers, etc.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It may be a challenge for me to find a clean, unmolested Elise. It would be either a track toy or a teen's neglected car, I'm afraid. :sick:

    I don't think there are too many old grandmas who drive Elises only on Sundays to church. :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    I think that's the kind of thing you need to buy new. Lots of risk otherwise. Some high end cars either get driven or preserved - I think most of those will be driven hard.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yup. :cry:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mercedes advised dealers it had created a “Model Year 2011 September Exclusive Dealer Demo Program,” offering them incentives of up to $8,000 per vehicle to “place up to a total of 10” of the listed products in their inventory “into demonstrator service.”

    It’s not unusual to have demonstrator models at a showroom, but in this case, “Each vehicle must stay in the dealer’s demo fleet until October 1, 2011,” the memo continued. In other words, only one day. Apparently, they would be counted as sold — meaning Mercedes could inflate its September numbers by several thousand vehicles – and then put back on the market as used vehicles, notably with like-new warranties.


    http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2011/10/why-did-mercedes-blow-out-u-s-ceo/

    The funny thing is that fin keeps saying Lexus boosts sales by putting all those ESs in the loaner fleets, looks like Benz did it bad enough that the CEO got canned!

    Or maybe it was the household employee he expensed. Or his wife's golf membership.

    You gotta admit, there is no scandal as good as a German one. Remember VW and the hookers? :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    It's only illegal if you get caught :shades:

    In my area, I think HS sales got the biggest boost via loaners - few people seemed to buy them otherwise. Loan em out for a few months and sell at a better price, problem solved.

    I am pretty sure the expense fiasco is behind the downfall of Mr Weird Mustache. No worries for him, I am sure there's a healthy seven figure settlement awaiting, not to mention job prospects as one must admit the brand has fared well in the US during his tenure.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A few months is one day, but as little as a day?

    I did some quick math - they have about, what 350 dealers or so? 10 per dealer, and you know with $8000 incentive they're getting every one they can. So that's 3500 cars. A cool $28 million.

    No wonder they canned him.

    I wonder if we'll soon hear of some scandal with the maid, DSK-style? :D
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    But the article said only of certain models - if the dealer didn't have 10 of them in stock...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    Creative accounting, everyone does it.

    Yeah, if this actually is in practice (haven't seen proof yet), the material limited it to "certain models". Each dealer might not have 10, or even 1 - for all we know, this is for E550 cabrios, SLSs, CL65s, R diesels other obscure models. The ML is also being replaced, so they will probably do anything to move out the last of the old ones, too.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am confused. Some auto makers give their sales figures as cars delivered to dealers. And others as cars delivered to customers. So how do we get an accurate figure of cars actually sold in any given month?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2011
    That's just it - we don't get accurate figures.

    Remember the scandal at Mitsubishi where cars were sold to names of cartoon characters? They did that to meet quotas, then sold the cars later.

    Buyers sued when they found out their warranties were elapsing earlier than expected.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2011
    No more overtime and a one day (Saturday) stoppage in four NA plants. More may be coming.

    Thailand Flooding Hits Toyota In North America (AutoObserver)

    Ford, Honda and Michelin have also been affected.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just throw in the towel and write off 2011 entirely. Sheesh. :sick:

    On the bright side, leaked FT86 photos look great IMHO:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/27/toyota-ft-86-leaked-in-modellista-parts-catal- og/

    Best looking Toyota in the lineup. Funny thing is, it's really a Subaru underneath it all.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Toyota-FT-86-cou- pe-2012-CAR-review-/

    Looks promising, but the Subaru version could end up being the more fun one:

    Shame that the stability controls’ Sport setting was too intrusive, although Toyota’s engineers said they had a less intrusive set-up that they were also experimenting with.

    Our car was fitted with 215/45 R17 Michelin Green X tyres all round – aka Toyota Prius tyres


    A couple of thoughts...

    Subaru got a lot of heat when the 2008 WRX came out with narrower tires than its predecessor, so they may be more sensitive to the fact that their buyers want better shoes.

    The other thing is that Subaru's stability control is *MUCH* less intrusive than Toyota's, in my experience at least.

    Actually, not just me - Consumer Reports complains about just about every Subaru model getting sideways in their slalom tests, from their perspective a bad thing, but to these buyers likely desired.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Toyota-FT-86-first-drive/259779/-

    Car says 1200kg, this says 1280kg. That's a pretty big discrepancy.

    Also, Autocar says you can turn stability control all the way off, so they must have driven the car with the other setup (Car mentioned there were 2 suspensions).

    'Sup with the Prius shows on both? Please...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    200 HP
    151 lb/ft of torque
    2662 lbs
    Torsen LSD on all Manual equipped cars
    16-17" rims (no ridiculously oversized wheels)

    Someone else (Slipstream) said it best...

    Somebody in Toyota QA screwed up and let something awesome through. Toyota is really slipping...
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Toyota is the only major with sales lower than last year. New Camry a big disappointment in sales. Toyota down 7.7% this year. Lexus down 16.2% for the year. How the mighty have fallen.

    The bright side is GM and C are up. Maybe we will get our money back. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Camry was just 500 units or so behind Accord for the #1 selling car, and they are in the middle of switch over to the new model. I'd say the Camry did better than expected, considering.

    The new one wasn't available in quantities last month, but it is now. Fitz has 159 and they're all 2012s, so let's see November.

    If you think that's no big deal, look at the Malibu, which is undergoing a similar change over to a new model. Sales sucked. Less than half the Camry's, even the Chrysler 200 beat the Malibu!

    1) Accord: 22,589
    2) Camry: 22,043
    3) Altima: 21,838
    4) Sonata: 18,192
    5) Fusion: 18,094

    Malibu in sell down mode was at 10,239, ouch! Well less than half of Camry.

    The same dealers has a mix of 2011 and 2012 Yaris, also, so that model has yet to fully switch to the new generation.

    I think Corolla was the best selling compact, ancient 4EAT and all. Yep:

    Toyota Corolla 16,244
    Honda Civic 16,173
    Chevrolet Cruze 14,295
    Hyundai Elantra 13,000
    Ford Focus 12,386
    VW Jetta Sedan 11,349
    Nissan Sentra 8,384
    Kia Forte 4,712

    Scion is really hurting. They need the FR-S right now. I think that model will help even the tC, as people who can't afford the FR-S may get one of those instead.

    Lexus did poorly for several reasons:

    * new models yet to arrive
    * supply constraints on popular CT
    * Mercedes had a $2000 conquest incentive for Lexus owners

    Benz kicked asphalt, they had their best October ever. The new C-class went from 3xxx sales to 7xxx sales, double. The new C coupe is helping, I'm sure, as did that $2000 for current Lexus owners, and the new C250 engine.

    The new M class and the GLK also did well. Surprisingly the E-class was down, as was the S-class.

    Fresh products are doing well, no surprise.

    The $2000 offer to Lexus owners was brilliant, though. Kick them while they're down. They may not make profits on those sales but a conquest is a conquest. Genius.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    image

    Bodes well for the new Camry. We'll see.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Toyota extends N.A. production cuts due to Thailand floods

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111102/OEM01/111109955/1491- #ixzz1ceuf3dy8

    Toyota will eliminate overtime at assembly plants in Indiana, Kentucky, Texas and Canada and eliminate a Saturday shift on Nov. 12 at the factories in Kentucky and Canada.

    Last week, it eliminated a week of overtime and a Saturday shift at assembly plants in Indiana, Kentucky and Canada, as well as an engine plant in West Virginia


    No layoffs, at least, just cut overtime.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2131

    More FT info. Check out that cutaway - the whole block sits below the tires. Nice and low CoG.

    Funny that they compare aerodynamics to the RX-8, CR-Z, and Prius.

    I'm very happy to read this part:

    Each cylinder has both direct and port injection

    That should mean no carbon build-up on the intake valves, which has plagued early DI-only setups.

    Peak torque comes at 6600 rpms, so this will be a revver. Atypical for Subaru boxers.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    "The plant is finally set to begin production on Nov. 17, following more than a year's worth of agonizing delays. So far, about 1,250 Toyota employees are already building test cars at the plant, and the company expects to hire another 280 this year. More will come aboard in the future, and dozens of others are employed by suppliers."

    In tough economy, Toyota plant brings Miss. jobs (idahostatesman.com)

    No word yet on whether the first car off the line with be "Elvis Pink".
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Is that the plant slated to assemble Prius? A Pink Prius would be fitting. :D

    It is also great for Mississippi, to get good jobs back. I would imagine regulations on furniture finishes and logging ran the Furniture companies out of the country.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good news about the jobs. Also helps local businesses as those folks have money to spend.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    Just checked Lane Furniture; looks like they are doing okay - got plants all over the country, but have four in or near Tupelo. Lots of pine tree farms down there; don't know where they go for their hardwoods. Yellow pages shows 57 furniture manufacturers but who knows how accurate those listing are.

    When I lived in N. Mississippi, Tupelo was around 40,000 for the whole county. 40 years later they are around 80,000. 150k for the "region". It's grown every decade. Big hospital there and Cooper Tire. Gee, I'm sounding like a booster, lol.

    My brother and his wife are driving the Natchez Trace this week and it goes right by Tupelo; maybe they'll take a detour and head for Elvis's shotgun house and give me a report.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited November 2011
    I was only commenting on your article that mentioned losing furniture makers. We lost most of our cabinet shops when the state outlawed the good finishes. I understand they have good ones now that are safer. However the damage is done and the jobs are gone. We get our regulations backwards. Come up with a good alternative before you ban a product.

    It is good that the South is gaining jobs. It gives US more Made in America choices of vehicles.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Furniture is a easy to put off purchase. You should see mine.

    You can keep trying to blame the government for every little thing, but it really is mostly economic - people don't have money to buy furniture right now. If the government had a lot of control over the economy, they would have pulled us out of this dip two years ago. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    Probably the Euro market cars like that German plated disguised car. US versions will be slushbox only with an additional 500kg (not lbs) of bloat and available in 3 shades of beige :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    As long as Subaru sells the euro version, I really wouldn't care. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    So where in the EU will you be moving? ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, maybe Portugal, since I'm fluent.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    We get our regulations backwards. Come up with a good alternative before you ban a product.

    Wow. What a concept! :D

    That makes sense. No wonder we don't do it.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    I'm trying to think of an example but am having trouble. Freon? R-134A is the replacement for cars. DDT? I don't know what they sprayed back in Boise - something like NyGuard IGR I suppose. Oil paint? PP&G seems to sell a lot of the waterborne stuff to the auto industry. I have a whole house full of compact fluorescent light bulbs but the old kind seem in ready supply. Lead glazed pottery? Mercury thermometers? Cigarettes? (I hear POTUS really quit this time).

    Toyota hasn't been regulated out of existence, but I suppose you could pick Honda as an alternative if that happens. :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I do not know what kind of finish they used to use on kitchen cabinets. I do know as I talked to the owner of a big cabinet shop when we were remodeling the kitchen in our old house back about 2005. What the state did was limit the amount of this finish that had fumes that were hazardous down to a small amount that could be used per month. Which for all intents and purposes killed the cabinet shop businesses in CA. Most started buying from the shops in other states and Mexico.

    I guess you remember how many trips Ahnold made to Japan to try and get that Miss plant built in CA. My guess it was either silly regulations or their UAW contract in the state and no RTW that lost the bid.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    Or they could have reformulated the finish, upgraded their paint booths or whatever.

    The real story was probably that the owner was dodging taxes or alimony. ;)

    Two seconds of net searching shows this outfit in the Bay Area that's still going strong since 1954. Bet there's 100s more - what's California up to now - 30 million people? That's a lot of kitchen cabinets.

    Toyota plans to release financial results tomorrow. A drop in profits is expected.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Drop in profit? But I just bought a Toyota. Oh, yeah - used. Half the price and I REALLY like it!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.