Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The French invented an air car that was supposed to go on sale here in 2010. I don't think it made it. I think it would be ideal for Washington DC where the supply of hot air seems infinite.

    http://www.gizmag.com/compressed-air-car-set-for-us-launch-in-2010/8896/
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,522
    Was it the one used in the Mama's Family episode where she tried to teach Mama how to drive? :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Odd enough styling that it could only be French!

    My sister-in-law had a Xsara Picasso. You've never seen a stranger car.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,807
    I remember when I asked my 10 year old to try out the 3rd row in a Gen 1 Highlander, got some unfriendly looks.
    The RAV has go to be even smaller.
    The number of people who have actually sat back there might edge out the number of crosstour owners, but it's going to be close.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The RAV4's is tiny, no question. Not nearly as bad as, say, the Mitsubishi Outlander's. That one should be outlawed.

    A *lot* of 3rd rows are there mostly for bragging rights. Very few are actually comfortable for adults - besides minivans, the Expedition and a few other large SUVs.

    Even the Tahoe positions your knees in your chest. There's no well for you to put your feet, due to the live axle.

    Even seemingly large vehicles like the Q7, MDX, etc.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    "Toyota revitalizes its bestseller’s core qualities."

    Sounds like they focused in on a good amount of the criticism with the outgoing model, mainly the interior cabin quality. And kudos for getting the weight down.

    Still amazing off the line, under 6 seconds to 60 is just plain nuts in this class...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What impresses me is the 25 mpg observed. In the hands of those lead foots, that's far more amazing than 0-60 in 5.8s.

    I'm glad to see Toyota didn't fumble like Honda did. The new Civic is a huge miss.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2011
    "August marked its first increase in global vehicle production in a year"

    Toyota Production Rises For First Time In A Year (AutoObserver)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Never saw that particular episode, but Betty White would often mention the car in the series.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A good sign post-tsunami.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2011
    Per this article, at least, for the Plug-in Prius. So I guess that's how it qualifies for the $2500 credit:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/28/2012-toyota-prius-plug-in-first-drive-review/-

    Soon to be clogging HOV lanes in Cali.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It looks like that new HOV thing will not start till Jan 2012. It is waiting Federal approval. It will be for the first 40k applicants. I doubt the Volt will make a dent. I don't even anticipate the Plug-in Prius to sell many.

    Green Clean Air Vehicle Stickers pending federal approval will be available as of January 1, 2012 and will be valid through January 1, 2015 to the first 40,000 applicants that purchase or lease cars meeting California's enhanced advanced technology partial zero emission vehicle (AT PZEV) requirements. Vehicles qualifying for this new sticker will be added to this website, however applications for the new sticker will only be accepted once the program begins on January 1, 2012. Qualifying vehicles purchased before the program begins WILL be eligible to receive the green decals.

    So far the Volt is the only Plug-in hybrid with a tax credit. Will Toyota even have theirs on the road before the HOV stickers are gone? That sold many Prius early on.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited September 2011
    It looks like CA is offering $1500 incentive on the enhanced AT-PZEV cars.

    IF
    • Meets California’s most stringent tailpipe emission standard
    • Has zero evaporative emissions
    • Has a 15 yr/150K mile warranty on the emissions system and;
    • Has a 10 yr/150K warranty on the zero emission energy storage system.


    http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/factsheets/clean_vehicle_incentives.pdf

    Is that tougher than on the original Prius. I remember complaints about Prius catalytic convertors going bad after the normal warranty and Toyota refusing to replace. And they were over $1000.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2011
    Hard to believe since they should be covered under the federal emissions warranty. That's 8/80. 7/70 for California.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Thinking back to the posts from when the Prius became popular, several people had Cat Convertors go bad after the 80k mile thing. CA had a stiffer rule. Yet Toyota claimed it only covered the battery and associated hybrid parts. Not the catalytic convertor. Which was at that time very expensive.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Quick net search doesn't indicate anything unusual.

    Lots of people claimed the hybrid batteries died early and cost $8,000 to replace. That wasn't true either.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited September 2011
    This is one of the ones I was thinking of.

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef28f96/90#MSG90

    PS
    I believe CA law was 100k miles on AT-PZEV
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Kind of amazing that it's 15 yr/150K now. Practically a lifetime guarantee.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    CA emissions are strange. If it costs over a certain amount to get it to pass, they can give you a waiver. I think they also give some financial to repair. So they don't want the expense when all that high priced crap, craps out.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Will Toyota even have theirs on the road before the HOV stickers are gone?

    Good question. They're saying "Spring" for the release.

    40,000 is a lot of cars, though. How many Teslas and Volts and Leafs are on the roads? Just in Cali, too. Probably not nearly that many.

    This does give the Volt and Leaf a nice push, though.

    I doubt they'll run out of the 40k until the Prius is released. In fact I bet it will last a year or so before they run out.

    Just a SWAG.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If commuting is your main reason for buying a niche type vehicle, the Civic GX is probably the best choice. It qualifies for HOV permit with no limit. Natural Gas and CNG have not suffered the volatility of gas. And I would bet it is cheaper to run than an electric car in CA. Not to mention less initial investment.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree, and what I don't get is why Honda has not promoted it more? In fact they stopped selling the "Phil" stations, or whatever you call it.

    In Brazil the taxi fleet has gone to CNG. It has a really low cost per mile to operate there. They convert cars cheap, stuff a cylinder in the trunk, voila.

    Guy next door just installed a whole-house generator that runs on CNG - it's piped to his house so he never even needs to go get gas! Pretty trick system.

    He could, in theory, go off the electical grid, but he'd still be relying on the CNG supply.

    Top it off, the US has enough CNG that we could tell OPEC to go shove it.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited September 2011
    The reason CNG hasn't taken off is the lack of infrastructure. No one wants to offer CNG vehicles in volume until you can refuel easily and no one wants to build the refueling stations until there are plenty of customers. You also loose about half the trunk space in the Civic and when they offered the home filling system, it ran about $4K installed. But the biggest drawback is you have to drive a Civic with a big blue CNG sticker on the trunk - not as cool as Prius V, Volt or Tesla and really no smug factor. Hybrid and electric buyers want to reduce/eliminate fossil fuel use - not transfer it. Yes I know most electricity is generated by fossil fuels.

    Suprisingly, there are three CNG refueling locations within 10 miles of my house. Price per gallon is about $2.40 and with the 8 gallon tank in the Civic GX, you get a range of about 250 miles. For me, that would require refueling about every 5 days.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited September 2011
    Damn this looks good...

    Not a rendering from Toyota but they really should really take notice of this because it's a natrual successor IMO. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    This is a long shot, but I bet Toyota uses the next STI platform to underpin a Supra or a sports car of some sort.

    The next WRX should spin off the Impreza platform, so it will be a unique model, probably more swoopy than the practical Impreza hatch.

    I really think they will exploit the Subaru partnership this way, and use that platform for their own model as well.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Meanwhile, they are putting their money on small displacement 4 cylinder engines.

    Toyota Adds 4-Cylinder Engine Production In Alabama (AutoObserver)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The page should automatically play the music...

    Swee-eet Home A-la-bama!
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Hope they can do a better job than the awful assembly quality of the Honda Ody I used to own. That thing rattled and made more noises than a UAW built vehicle. So, I'm a little leery of Alabama right now.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,522
    Maybe the pictograms weren't specific enough :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The reason CNG hasn't taken off is the lack of infrastructure

    No only that the only two commercial stations within 15 miles of me closed. I think there is two open to the public stations in all San Diego county. In my case I don't have NG, so it would not be viable. If I needed a commuter right today it would probably be the Leaf with Solar panels to charge it. Thankfully I don't need a commuter car as I would probably slit my wrist if I had to fight that traffic everyday.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    I spent a day or two recently in commuter rush hour traffic in LA recently. Compared to that hell hole, San Diego traffic is enjoyable and a completely happy place.

    Yes, San Diego traffic sucks, but when I think of L.A., I know we have it good in San Diego. It's all relative and comparative.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There is no doubt about that. I went down to Mission Valley shopping yesterday and it was not too bad in the 10 am to noon period. I either drive through Los Angeles in the middle of the night or Sunday. I could NEVER live there again. That is insanity. I would imagine a few other places would be equally as bad. Watching the HOV lanes, I don't see a big advantage. Always some nut in the HOV lane going right at the speed limit blocking half a dozen commuters. I am sure a lot of commuters gave a sigh of relief on July 1st when the Prius was pulled out of those lanes.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,696
    > I am sure a lot of commuters gave a sigh of relief on July 1st when the Prius was pulled out of those lanes.

    What was that about?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    LA traffic is bad, but at least a lot of the freeways have lots of lanes. Try rush hour in places like Chicago, NY/NJ or DC where most of the expressways have only two or three lanes in most places (and lots of bridges). I think one of the things that may make LA seem especially bad to residents is the sheer physical miles they cover because that is one spread out place. I think that really strikes you when you fly into LAX or SNA at night. While we were out there a few weeks ago, we decided to drive from LA to Palm Springs and I admit being a bit surprised that it was basically heavy traffic the whole two hours though!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There was 85,000 Prius given HOV access in CA. However it expired July 1 this year. Now they plan to offer 40,000 Plug-in hybrids a pass starting in 2012 ending in 2015. I assume to encourage people to dump money into the technology.

    What is interesting is the Toyota plug-in hybrid from 2010 is the only car listed for the new HOV green tag. The Chevy Volt is not on the list. And neither is the new Toyota Plug-in due out in 2012. The Leaf and Tesla qualify for the unlimited number of white tags. There are a lot of vehicles allowed with those tags. Take a look at he list. Anything on CNG is allowed.

    http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    edited September 2011
    The Camry's 4 cylinder engine has been built in the USA for a long time, but where?
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Toyota makes engines in W VA.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nice benefit for CNG powered vehicles, then, HOV lane access.

    I think right now it makes a lot more sense then electric, even without many stations, at least if you have CNG at home.

    Think about it - you fill up right at home for your commute. The only time you would even need a station is for long trips, and most families have a 2nd car. A small city car would probably always fill up at home, and has MUCH more range than EVs do.

    In the short-term, at least, it's much more viable, IMHO.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    juice - I think the drawback to the home refueling station is that it pumps at a much lower pressure/flow. IIRC, it would take 8 hours to to fill half the CNG tank in the Civic at home.

    That's a drawback. I can be lazy when I get home from work. I don't want to have to remember to connect something so I can drive the next day.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited September 2011
    You pointed out one of the negatives to PHILL units at home. Maybe the reason they went bankrupt. They also need periodic service. Not sure where that will come from down the road. CNG is particularly good for business and public transportation. Most of those outfits have big CNG systems. I don't see them or EVs for more than local and commute type vehicles. We are spending $millions of tax dollars subsidizing these new charging stations. I wonder who will pay to maintain them?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...and I don't think anyone is touting the current EV's or CNG units as a viable replacement for all vehicles. But they would probably meet the needs of a good number of drivers. Even I could get away with driving an EV as long as I can get the 40+ mile range.

    We are spending $millions of tax dollars subsidizing these new charging stations. I wonder who will pay to maintain them?

    Here in Boston, 150 stations are being installed and will charge for the power hookup. I would presume that over time they would cover the cost of maintenance - just like a gas station.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    image

    Ah caint make no sense of them there picty-grams!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2011
    I didn't realize it took that long to fill up. That's a concern, then.

    I guess I was thinking they can fill up a propane tank in 30 seconds, so I thought it would be similar for a car at home (<5 minutes at least).

    Wonder how the taxis do it in Brazil. I guess they tend to stay within city limits, and can fill up at commercial stations.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I would presume they would fuel up every day so I'm sure they can safely travel outside the city limits. If the Civic can go about 240 miles on a fill, I'm sure the taxis in Brazil have a similar range.

    Also I guess it would depend on the city. They may not ever get outside the city in Sao Paulo or Rio.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think (?), not sure, that they are set up for flex fuel. If so that would actually extend the range by that much.

    They lose trunk space, though, because they add a long propane tank in the trunk. Longer and higher capacity than the kind used for BBQ grilles.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    When you say flex fuel I presume you mean they run on CNG or ethanol.

    You mention propane which is another alternative fuel.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, sorry, I guess I use propane interchangeably with CNG. I was actually referring to the type of cylinder that serves as a fuel tank.

    And yes, the Brazilian cabs run on CNG or any combination of gas/ethanol. Technically it's tri-fuel.

    Pretty nifty!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wiki has more info:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_vehicle

    An excerpt:

    Popular among taxi drivers, the Brazilian Fiat Siena Tetrafuel 1.4, is a multifuel car that runs as a flexible-fuel on pure gasoline, or E20-E25 blend, or pure ethanol (E100); or runs as a bi-fuel with natural gas (CNG). Below: the CNG storage tanks in the trunk.

    Calling it Tetra is cheating a bit, because they refer to a mix as a 4th and 5th fuel, really it uses 3 - ethanol, gasoline, and CNG.

    Lemme see if I can hotlink the photo:

    image

    Looks like he's got 2 scuba tanks in the trunk! :D
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    ...and maybe a Ford Pinto after it gets rear ended!
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