No reason that I can see. This is all that I can guess might have happened.
The vehicle is on the highway doing highway speeds of 65-80 mph. The driver suddenly realizes that he's going too fast and lets off the pedal. The pedal is caught in the mat so the car doesn't slow down, but he doesn't realize why the car is not slowing down. As any of us would do he applies the brakes. The car still doesn't slow down.???? As any of us would do he applies more brake pressure. ??? Still no let up and the car is up to 90+ mph. Now he really stands on the brakes while watching out for traffic all over the place zoom by as the car is up to 100 mph. This glazes over the rotors and makes the brakes useless and he realizes that he's got to get off the highway to get out of traffic so as not to endanger anyone. ^^^ All speculation though.
What I did notice in my two personal trials is that while shifting into Neutral disconnects the wheels from the throttle there is no huge immediate slowdown. It's the same as taking a manual tranny out of gear and letting it coast freely. It is not at all like downshifting where there is a noticable hump as the engine brakes. The wheels and the vehicle are just free-spinning. From 65 mph I could see that it would take me a lonnnngggg time to come to a dead stop without the benefit of brakes.
If the driver was upto 100+ mph in the ES350 and approaching a long downhile exit with glazed over rotors he has little or no stopping power.
From my own short test If I discovered that I couldn't get the throttle to turn off I'd make sure based on this tragedy that I didn't use the brakes too hard too early thus rendering them ineffective. I'd get the car out of gear first to get the vehicle starting to slow down as much as possible...then apply the brakes.
in their first year have totalled 45K so far, and I do see a few of these around. So it looks like Toyota had a good idea there, although I wonder if we were to pull up Highlander sales, would we see a 45K dip?
Another serious question is if the shift lever doesn't allow shifting to neutral due to some failure or anomaly, what happens by shifting into 1? It would have slowed the car, if things are working correctly. The motor would still be revving as high as the limiters would allow and the power would greatly resist braking after the car slow into the range for that gear. I assume the trans would go into a lower gear as appropriate with the mapping for the transmission -- assuming the computer control is working correctly or working at all.
Many questions.
I still believe there's more to it than a floor mat causing full throttle. I want to hear the black box information. I've seen one post of what contents of the data would show. I can't believe it takes this long. On CSI it only takes a few minutes to analyze things!!!
It would be more involved to shift into 1 (lowest gear). In the ES 350 and most cars with 6-speed trannies, you have to go into the manumatic mode and then shift down numerically through all the gears. It would be a lot easier just to shift into neutral, gated shifter or not.
As to why the SD Sheriff's Office is sitting on the black box, I don't know (waiting for litigation which is inevitable)?
The Venza replaced the Solara at Georgetown so it has a limited production capacity. It shares part of one line. The Solara I believe peaked at 55K units and began to drift downward these last several years. From a production pov this is a good replacement.
Highlander sales are bound to be down this year. They are all produced in Japan and Toyota has cut back all vehicles made in Japan except the Prius due to currency considerations.
The Highlander should move to Princeton, IN in the future along with the Sienna.
albeit a very expensive one that we all know will self destruct the engine in short order. It would cost thousands of dollars. It would be something that many would delay doing until it might be too late and that would lead to a bad outcome.
1) I can vouch that you could bounce a Honda/Toyota/Audi motor off the rev limiter in neutral all day and night and the engine won't self destruct. In fact, Honda motors are their happiest at the rev limiter. My friend took his Geo Prism with a Toyota motor to the rev limit every other shift for 100,000 miles, no problems. At an Audi Performance Driving School Fun Day I did recently, they said because Americans can't shift sticks and work clutches anymore, they'd rather we just all kept it in 3rd gear around the track and just bounce off the limiter over and over. Audi decided the engines would be fine obviously, and that the wear and tear would cost less in the long run then having Americans shift gears more than twice to 3rd and ruin even robust clutches. I didn't see any Audi Engines fail at the track, and they had several groups of 10 or so vehicles going all day long.
2) If you'd rather risk your safety over revving your engine a bit by putting it in neutral, then that is a personal decision, and I would call that a bad decision and operator/driver error, so we are back to square one. It all comes down to operator/driver error.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
The fact that the CHP officer didn't get killed or kill somebody else a lot quicker in the incident attests to his driving skills.
Not really... depending on the time of day it happened, that stretch of the 125 in San Diego/Santee is lesser congested than most any freeway in San Diego County.
He just ran out of road, but if he was a good driver, he of taken the 52 west exit and tried to make the WIDE turn on the wide 2 lane ramp. In a Lexus, it might be impossible at 120 mph though, but I think I could make the turn at 120 in my A3, granted, with no other traffic in the way though.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Why does any car in today's traffic need to go above 90 mph? If you say you need reserve power at 80 mph to get out of a jam, I'd find that hard to believe.
First, since when do people pay any attention to the 2 numbers posted on an aluminum plate? Speed limits are paid no attention to because they are arbitrarily set too low to generate revenue for good for nothing CHP-like agencies.
Second. there are a million situations where I might need to accelerate myself out of a jam going at 80 MPH down the freeway. If you want to be limited to 80 or less, go buy a Yugo.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
First, since when do people pay any attention to the 2 numbers posted on an aluminum plate? Speed limits are paid no attention to because they are arbitrarily set too low to generate revenue for good for nothing CHP-like agencies.
A common sentiment among speeders. But most people look at the 2 numbers and add a 5-10 mph "cushion" so they won't be stopped. You can go 70 mph legally on Cali freeways, and 75 or 80 in nearby states. Not high enough? In today's traffic with all of the driver distractions? No thanks.
Second. there are a million situations where I might need to accelerate myself out of a jam going at 80 MPH down the freeway.
Name ONE (actual, not theoretical -- and not from hooning on the freeway). Funny, I've never had to go 80 in 40+ years of driving to get out of a jam. Steering or braking -- plenty of times. Accelerating more vigorously -- yes too, but not up to and beyond 80 mph.
You can go 70 mph legally on Cali freeways, and 75 or 80 in nearby states. Not high enough? In today's traffic with all of the driver distractions? No thanks. '
My argument to that is that if speed limits were raised to 100 MPH maximum then you wouldn't see people on the freeway doing their makeup or talking on their hand held cell phones anymore. People might actually take driving seriously at those speeds and safety would be improved across the board. Plus, while 75 to 80 in CA is doable, 80 can get you a ticket because a lot of speed limits are underposted to 65, so then you are 15 over.
NMA studies have shown that people will drive at a speed they are comfortable driving in general, whether the two numbers say 35 or 55, people will drive what they want, unless they see a CHP officer around hiding behind a bush. Speed Surveys taken where speed limits were increased show that the actual speed of vehicles increased by only 1 MPH with an increase of 10 MPH in the speed limit. The difference was that the previous speed limit made violators of the majority of drivers, while the new one 10 MPH higher (which was more reasonable) made the majority of drivers law abiders.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Same here, I usually cruise to work and back, all highway and I've never broken say 85mph. I agree, there is just no need to go faster unless you're on a track
But I think the public would scream bloody murder if speed limiters on vehicles were mandated to 85 - 90mph. I bet it would fall into a huge "Big Brother is taking away our freedom! argument.
For the record, I took a 1993 Ford Probe up to 130 while racing my friend in a Honda prelude on a 2 lane highway. Looking back on that as an adult, I am thankful that I wasn't killed or killed someone else for my stupidity as a kid. :sick:
Name ONE (actual, not theoretical -- and not from hooning on the freeway). Funny, I've never had to go 80 in 40+ years of driving to get out of a jam. Steering or braking -- plenty of times. Accelerating more vigorously -- yes too, but not up to and beyond 80 mph.
Most of the million situation are theoretical, but that doesn't mean they couldn't happen. Have you ever heard of the best defense being a good offense?
I've been driving for over 15 years now, and since I haven't caused an at-fault accident in that time involving another vehicle, I think that qualifies me as an expert. I've managed to avoid many not-at-fault accidents too, but in San Diego you get both civilians and police officer's rear-ending you because they are terrible drivers. Hard to avoid rear enders....especially when your not even moving in both of my cases where I had not at fault incidents.
Now for the non-theoretical:
I have many times observed bad drivers doing dumb unsafe manuevers (or just plain not paying attention or talking on a phone) on the freeway. I'll be cruising along comfortably on the highway at 80 in the fast lane, and they might be right next to me. I am not going to go side by side with a driver like that one second longer than I need to be, so if there going 75-80, I'm gonna pick it up a bit when I pass them to lessen the amount of time I'm in their "adjacent area." This is defensive driving at it's most effective, with a good offensive move. By avoiding a dangerous situation and minimizing the hazard and my exposure to it.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Everybody thinks they are a better driver than they really are. With the exception of Sir Stirling perhaps.
Most people drive in the 85th percentile (the comfort zone you referred to). There's nothing revenue generating about it - the traffic engineers post most roads at the 85th percentile. The cops make their money off the few who think they can outdrive everyone else.
I've been driving for over 15 years now, and since I haven't caused an at-fault accident in that time involving another vehicle, I think that qualifies me as an expert
Ever been to a high performance driving school? Done a track day? At the very least auto crossed?
If you haven't you aren't an expert.
I haven't done a track day for on road but I have done the equivalent of a track day for off-road driving and been an instructor/spotter for off-road driving.
Driving a car at 9/10ths or 10/10thson a track completely changes your perspective on regular on the road driving.
Has your impression of Toyota/Lexus changed since the company began suffering a wave of bad publicity? A reporter would like to hear from you by Friday, November 20, 2009. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com with your brief opinion and the make/model vehicle you currently drive.
My impression of Toyota isn't any better or worse than it's ever been. For the most part I think they build vehicles that are decent, if not always exciting. However, I think too many people got wrapped up in drinking the Toyota-can-do-no-wrong Kool-Aid, and are starting to discover that Jim Jones was manning the punch line! :surprise:
I agree, and it's also because they became #1 (at least for a year). Nissan seems to fly under the radar with little criticism (unlike Honda), but I bet if they sold as many cars as Toyota, they'd be attacked as well.
It seems that Toyota's build quality is much better in Japan than it is on cars built in the U.S. I only buy Japanese built on any Japanese car, not just Toyota.
my BIL had the same thought with his Lexus, only buy one built off continent. it had the typical dash noise and they had it for over a month while trying to fix it. he passed it on to his better half and bought another one.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
My experience has been the opposite. Most of my Toyotas have been built in the USA, one in Canada, and one in Japan. I had two issues that had to be fixed almost immediately on the one from Japan (only rattles, nothing major). On all the ones from USA and Canada - one rattle total in 4 cars. I don't have any problem getting one built in the USA - my newest one was built just fine in Kentucky with zero defects.
By the way, it sure is nice getting one built in the USA, Canada, or even Japan, compared to Mexico. I'd rather support high-wage jobs!
The profits are only 5%, so even if that goes to Japan, the vast majority stays in the USA.
Toyota's lease specials this month are substantially cheaper than Honda's or Nissan's... A small part of that may be because Toyota doesn't include gap protection with their leases (Honda does, not sure about Nissan), but that can't account for all the difference.
Nissan seems to fly under the radar with little criticism (unlike Honda), but I bet if they sold as many cars as Toyota, they'd be attacked as well.
Around these parts, Nissans are at least as common as Toyotas or Hondas (more dealers in the area). I don't hear a lot of complaints from the owners, but the press has really jumped on Nissan over their fuel-economy-nanny CVTs.
Toyota only managed to stay in the world's No. 1 auto maker spot for one year (2008) and now it's surpassed by VW in 2009 and GM is only behind by 10k cars!
It's probably NET profit after taxes that are ~5%, maybe a little higher. I believe that Toyota's Gross Profit margin is in the 12%-17% range according to their financial statements.
For a vehicle made here in NA nearly all the costs of a $22000 vehicle are paid to companies right here. Obviously all labor is paid to workers right here. Also all the advertising, sales costs and marketing are also paid to people and companies right here. All utility costs are paid to local companies. All taxes are paid to the local taxing bodies, including the IRS. Obviously in this $22000 MSRP all the monies earned by dealers in the US are remain here as well. There are just the Variable and SG&A expenses.
The Fixed costs are another story. These are amortized in the price of the vehicle. But they were paid up front to developers, testers, designers, builders, laborers and equipment makers.
I don't have any specific knowledge of where the funds flow after a sale is made but I'm positive that the vast majority of the funds stay here to pay bills. The NET funds from my own experience in a large international company also stay here. The sales are made in US$ and are deposited in banks in the US. There is no reason so transfer those funds out of the US. Those funds earn interest in US banks as easily as they do in offshore banks, they might even earn more interest here.
In addition those funds are at the disposal of the Corporate Finance Dept in Japan to be used in any way it wants anywhere in the world where it buys US$-denominated products.
Funds from vehicles imported are entirely different.
I generally agree with kdhspyder on this. Also, the foreign company spent initial money building the facilities in the US and providing jobs. We should welcome these foreign company operations on US soil. Can't blame them for wanting to avoid overly restrictive union work rules and featherbedding either.
Incidently most major US corporations also sell a lot of product overseas. In fact, if you have an S&P 500 index fund, somewhere around 25% of the revenues come from overseas, so you actually have foreign exposure in a US company fund. Like it or not, business is now global.
I think it would be very good for Toyota to reduce production enough to get all their quality issues under control. The expansion of sales was much too rapid earlier in this decade.
If it drops them to 3rd in global sales, so much the better.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
210delray: A common sentiment among speeders. But most people look at the 2 numbers and add a 5-10 mph "cushion" so they won't be stopped.
They add 5-10 mph because the speed limits on most limited access highways are posted too low. Utah recently found that when it raised the limit 80 mph on certain roads, people did not exceed the limit.
It's a myth that people will always 5-10 mph to the posted speed limit, just as it's a myth the speed kills on limited access highways.
That happens only because the posted speed limits are too low; raise the limit to reflect the capabilities of modern vehicles and roads, and and most people obey it.
210delray: You can go 70 mph legally on Cali freeways, and 75 or 80 in nearby states. Not high enough? In today's traffic with all of the driver distractions? No thanks.
In Arizona and New Mexico during the summer of 2008, the average speed on most limited access highways was 80 mph, with some people driving 90 mph. I didn't see any carnage, and the people who were causing problems were the ones driving the slowest.
210delray: Name ONE (actual, not theoretical -- and not from hooning on the freeway). Funny, I've never had to go 80 in 40+ years of driving to get out of a jam.
Pennsylvania has several short entrance ramps; I have accelerated from 65 mph to successfully merge into faster-moving traffic.
It's time to accept that most people drive 70-75 mph even in the Northeast, and even faster in western states and the Midwest, and it's perfectly safe.
Most people drive in the 85th percentile (the comfort zone you referred to). There's nothing revenue generating about it - the traffic engineers post most roads at the 85th percentile. The cops make their money off the few who think they can outdrive everyone else.
I agree with the 85th percentile rule from engineers. The problem is the cops don't observe or believe in it too. For instance, the 85th percentile speed on freeways is always above 55, 65, or 70 where posted as such as the MAXIMUM speed in CA. Unfortunately courts don't care what the speed surveys show on maximum speed cases.
As to roadways that are 65 or less under the basic speed law, a recent case with a Santee Sheriff got dismissed because he dare not show up in court against me. The speed survey showed that the ridiculously lowly set 55 MPH speed limit was below the 85th percentile (which was 57 MPH) and that was also almost 5 years ago! I'm also sure it was taken near the intersection, not on the down hill of Mission Gorge road going into Santee. I routinely see lazy officers from the Sheriff's dept. trying to pick people off and take advantage of the obscenely low 55 MPH speed limit when they know it should be 65 or 70, which is perfectly safe until you reach the first intersection or side entrance, which is at least a quarter mile past the downhill stretch they like to "enforce." They tried to enforce it against me but I was ready to show the judge the speed survey showing the 85th percentile was above 55, so why should the limit (mind you LIMIT) be less? wouldn't you round up, or is that using too much logic? The officer didn't show, and I would of bet $10,000 he wasn't going to before it happened in court recently.
You know what else, the speed survey showed that the accident rate made this stretch of HIGHLY enforced roadway 6 times safer than the AVERAGE road in Santee. Now you tell me why they are wasting time enforcing this stretch; safety, or revenue from people who don't bother to fight the man?
So I for one, can vouch that the Santee Sheriff's are corrupt, incompetent, and out for revenue right now. This may be why that black box is taking so long to find out information from.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
My impression of Toyota has not changed. I have had good experience with the 1990 Toyota Celica I have own since new and plan to purchase a new 2010 Toyota Yaris next summer. I also own a 1990 Honda Civic which I will use as a trade in. I live in New York City and a good 50 to 60 percent of my co-workers drive Toyotas. None of them read auto internet forums, but they are aware of the Toyota floor mat issue.
Let's just agree to disagree; I know your views quite well on this subject. But for me, I have NEVER in 40+ years of driving had to accelerate to or beyond 80 mph to avoid a potential crash. In the western states where it's permitted, I do go 75 mph. I haven't yet been in a legal 80 mph zone.
Our governor-elect in VA has said he'd like to raise rural interstate speed limits to 70 mph (it's 65 mph now except on parts of I-85).
>They add 5-10 mph because the speed limits on most limited access highways are posted too low. Utah recently found that when it raised the limit 80 mph on certain roads, people did not exceed the limit.
Grbeck is right on this. I've observed it with Indiana's rise in speed limit on interstate to 70/65 (trucks over a weight limit) and Ohio's limit for trucks raised to 65 same as cars. 95% drive within the higher limit they perceive as fairly correct.
I'd say that it was sales, marketing and dealer costs and margins.
In a $22000 midsized auto I wouldn't be surprised if these factors account for $4000 to $5000 of the MSRP. That's all exclusive of gross profit and taxes.
The other factors are Fixed Costs, including engineering, plant, equipment, HQ charges, Variable costs, steel, plastic, fabric, glass, rubber, labor, lights, utilities, etc. etc.
I have been in manufacturing (management) for 20 years, although not automotive. But I can say for certain that the "largest cost" is definitely NOT engineering. A Camry built in Kentucky is putting more money in the USA than a Ford Fusion built in Mexico. I had to laugh, I was behind a Fusion a few weeks ago with a bumper sticker that said "Buy American!" Obviously, he had no clue, or else he would have bought a Camry or a Malibu!!!
Funniest one I ever saw was an American flag sticker that said "Don't put my flag on your foreign car." It was on a Jeep, during a time when Jeep was owned by Daimler. And the Jeep looked like it was made when Jeep was owned by Renault.
Toyota to fix accelerators in U.S. recall, report says
UPDATED: 11/14/09 2:00 P.M.
TOKYO (Reuters) -- Toyota Motor Corp. will soon offer to fix the accelerator pedals of up to 4 million vehicles in the United States that are subject to the company's largest ever safety recall, Kyodo News reported.
....NHTSA said that discussions with Toyota continue "as to what the remedy will entail" and that the accelerator pedal is "among the subjects under consideration."
Toyota, the world's top automaker, said in late September it would recall some 3.8 million vehicles in the United States because of the risk that a loose floor mat could force down the accelerator, a problem suspected of causing crashes that killed five people.
Toyota has said it has confidence the problem is linked to floor mats and not a vehicle design flaw or problems related to braking, fuel or accelerator systems.
But NHTSA has said discussions included "several vehicle-based" factors that may contribute to pedal interference and a driver's ability to control and stop the car when the accelerator gets stuck.
.....Toyota has said that the cost of any related repair work have no effect on its business as the company has set aside nearly 500 billion yen ($5.6 billion) in provisions for recalls.
nippononly says, "Yikes, Toyota has a standing fund of $5.6 BILLION for recalls? That saps some of my confidence in their cars, I must say."
Actually, it's just a smart business decision. Every carmaker has recalls, and they all probably have a recall fund just like that. Recalls are an inevitable part of selling cars.
Seems to me to be merely a case of good business planning to have a ready reserve instead of getting the bottom line smacked upside the head every time there is a recall.
Well sure, that's the positive spin on it: it's a smart business decision for Toyota to be prepared for recalls. $5.6 billion is a lot of money, and would cover recalls of millions and millions of vehicles, which is most of their annual sales (to make one comparison).
If this does turn into a recall as anticipated, $5.6 billion might not be enough this year. :sick:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
This is a comment that was posted to another forum (Brand problems swept under the rug):
Here is another website of unhappy Toyota owners about the techniques used, or not used, to keep owners informed about problems. It was started November 10, 2009.
http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's difficult to find quality products any more. Everybody cuts corners as much as possible.
Yeah but recalls can go back many years not just for the past year or two of sales.
If an automaker has to recall a full model line for the past several years since the last redesign that could be millions of cars when you take platform sharing into account.
Comments
The floor mat wouldn't have physically kept the lever from shifting... would it?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The vehicle is on the highway doing highway speeds of 65-80 mph.
The driver suddenly realizes that he's going too fast and lets off the pedal.
The pedal is caught in the mat so the car doesn't slow down, but he doesn't realize why the car is not slowing down.
As any of us would do he applies the brakes. The car still doesn't slow down.????
As any of us would do he applies more brake pressure. ??? Still no let up and the car is up to 90+ mph.
Now he really stands on the brakes while watching out for traffic all over the place zoom by as the car is up to 100 mph. This glazes over the rotors and makes the brakes useless and he realizes that he's got to get off the highway to get out of traffic so as not to endanger anyone.
^^^ All speculation though.
What I did notice in my two personal trials is that while shifting into Neutral disconnects the wheels from the throttle there is no huge immediate slowdown. It's the same as taking a manual tranny out of gear and letting it coast freely. It is not at all like downshifting where there is a noticable hump as the engine brakes. The wheels and the vehicle are just free-spinning. From 65 mph I could see that it would take me a lonnnngggg time to come to a dead stop without the benefit of brakes.
If the driver was upto 100+ mph in the ES350 and approaching a long downhile exit with glazed over rotors he has little or no stopping power.
From my own short test If I discovered that I couldn't get the throttle to turn off I'd make sure based on this tragedy that I didn't use the brakes too hard too early thus rendering them ineffective. I'd get the car out of gear first to get the vehicle starting to slow down as much as possible...then apply the brakes.
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1160/15-cars-fueling- -the-auto-recovery/
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Many questions.
I still believe there's more to it than a floor mat causing full throttle. I want to hear the black box information. I've seen one post of what contents of the data would show. I can't believe it takes this long. On CSI it only takes a few minutes to analyze things!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As to why the SD Sheriff's Office is sitting on the black box, I don't know (waiting for litigation which is inevitable)?
Highlander sales are bound to be down this year. They are all produced in Japan and Toyota has cut back all vehicles made in Japan except the Prius due to currency considerations.
The Highlander should move to Princeton, IN in the future along with the Sienna.
1) I can vouch that you could bounce a Honda/Toyota/Audi motor off the rev limiter in neutral all day and night and the engine won't self destruct. In fact, Honda motors are their happiest at the rev limiter. My friend took his Geo Prism with a Toyota motor to the rev limit every other shift for 100,000 miles, no problems. At an Audi Performance Driving School Fun Day I did recently, they said because Americans can't shift sticks and work clutches anymore, they'd rather we just all kept it in 3rd gear around the track and just bounce off the limiter over and over. Audi decided the engines would be fine obviously, and that the wear and tear would cost less in the long run then having Americans shift gears more than twice to 3rd and ruin even robust clutches. I didn't see any Audi Engines fail at the track, and they had several groups of 10 or so vehicles going all day long.
2) If you'd rather risk your safety over revving your engine a bit by putting it in neutral, then that is a personal decision, and I would call that a bad decision and operator/driver error, so we are back to square one. It all comes down to operator/driver error.
Not really... depending on the time of day it happened, that stretch of the 125 in San Diego/Santee is lesser congested than most any freeway in San Diego County.
He just ran out of road, but if he was a good driver, he of taken the 52 west exit and tried to make the WIDE turn on the wide 2 lane ramp. In a Lexus, it might be impossible at 120 mph though, but I think I could make the turn at 120 in my A3, granted, with no other traffic in the way though.
First, since when do people pay any attention to the 2 numbers posted on an aluminum plate? Speed limits are paid no attention to because they are arbitrarily set too low to generate revenue for good for nothing CHP-like agencies.
Second. there are a million situations where I might need to accelerate myself out of a jam going at 80 MPH down the freeway. If you want to be limited to 80 or less, go buy a Yugo.
A common sentiment among speeders. But most people look at the 2 numbers and add a 5-10 mph "cushion" so they won't be stopped. You can go 70 mph legally on Cali freeways, and 75 or 80 in nearby states. Not high enough? In today's traffic with all of the driver distractions? No thanks.
Second. there are a million situations where I might need to accelerate myself out of a jam going at 80 MPH down the freeway.
Name ONE (actual, not theoretical -- and not from hooning on the freeway). Funny, I've never had to go 80 in 40+ years of driving to get out of a jam. Steering or braking -- plenty of times. Accelerating more vigorously -- yes too, but not up to and beyond 80 mph.
My argument to that is that if speed limits were raised to 100 MPH maximum then you wouldn't see people on the freeway doing their makeup or talking on their hand held cell phones anymore. People might actually take driving seriously at those speeds and safety would be improved across the board.
Plus, while 75 to 80 in CA is doable, 80 can get you a ticket because a lot of speed limits are underposted to 65, so then you are 15 over.
NMA studies have shown that people will drive at a speed they are comfortable driving in general, whether the two numbers say 35 or 55, people will drive what they want, unless they see a CHP officer around hiding behind a bush. Speed Surveys taken where speed limits were increased show that the actual speed of vehicles increased by only 1 MPH with an increase of 10 MPH in the speed limit. The difference was that the previous speed limit made violators of the majority of drivers, while the new one 10 MPH higher (which was more reasonable) made the majority of drivers law abiders.
But I think the public would scream bloody murder if speed limiters on vehicles were mandated to 85 - 90mph. I bet it would fall into a huge "Big Brother is taking away our freedom! argument.
For the record, I took a 1993 Ford Probe up to 130 while racing my friend in a Honda prelude on a 2 lane highway. Looking back on that as an adult, I am thankful that I wasn't killed or killed someone else for my stupidity as a kid. :sick:
Most of the million situation are theoretical, but that doesn't mean they couldn't happen. Have you ever heard of the best defense being a good offense?
I've been driving for over 15 years now, and since I haven't caused an at-fault accident in that time involving another vehicle, I think that qualifies me as an expert. I've managed to avoid many not-at-fault accidents too, but in San Diego you get both civilians and police officer's rear-ending you because they are terrible drivers. Hard to avoid rear enders....especially when your not even moving in both of my cases where I had not at fault incidents.
Now for the non-theoretical:
I have many times observed bad drivers doing dumb unsafe manuevers (or just plain not paying attention or talking on a phone) on the freeway. I'll be cruising along comfortably on the highway at 80 in the fast lane, and they might be right next to me. I am not going to go side by side with a driver like that one second longer than I need to be, so if there going 75-80, I'm gonna pick it up a bit when I pass them to lessen the amount of time I'm in their "adjacent area." This is defensive driving at it's most effective, with a good offensive move. By avoiding a dangerous situation and minimizing the hazard and my exposure to it.
Most people drive in the 85th percentile (the comfort zone you referred to). There's nothing revenue generating about it - the traffic engineers post most roads at the 85th percentile. The cops make their money off the few who think they can outdrive everyone else.
Back to the topic, this is a bit ironic:
Toyota saddled with GM venture plant shutdown costs (Mercury News)
Famous last words....And as Steve points out, so many others think of themselves similarly.
Yes, back to topic per Steve.
Ever been to a high performance driving school? Done a track day? At the very least auto crossed?
If you haven't you aren't an expert.
I haven't done a track day for on road but I have done the equivalent of a track day for off-road driving and been an instructor/spotter for off-road driving.
Driving a car at 9/10ths or 10/10thson a track completely changes your perspective on regular on the road driving.
even trying just follow their lines, i couldn't keep up.
now i concentrate on smooth.
Toyota plans to shut 300 dealers in Japan (CNBC)
So, 4,000 minus 300, carry the yen ... still a lot of dealers.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
it had the typical dash noise and they had it for over a month while trying to fix it.
he passed it on to his better half and bought another one.
By the way, it sure is nice getting one built in the USA, Canada, or even Japan, compared to Mexico. I'd rather support high-wage jobs!
The profits are only 5%, so even if that goes to Japan, the vast majority stays in the USA.
Around these parts, Nissans are at least as common as Toyotas or Hondas (more dealers in the area). I don't hear a lot of complaints from the owners, but the press has really jumped on Nissan over their fuel-economy-nanny CVTs.
How do you know that?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
For a vehicle made here in NA nearly all the costs of a $22000 vehicle are paid to companies right here. Obviously all labor is paid to workers right here. Also all the advertising, sales costs and marketing are also paid to people and companies right here. All utility costs are paid to local companies. All taxes are paid to the local taxing bodies, including the IRS. Obviously in this $22000 MSRP all the monies earned by dealers in the US are remain here as well. There are just the Variable and SG&A expenses.
The Fixed costs are another story. These are amortized in the price of the vehicle. But they were paid up front to developers, testers, designers, builders, laborers and equipment makers.
I don't have any specific knowledge of where the funds flow after a sale is made but I'm positive that the vast majority of the funds stay here to pay bills. The NET funds from my own experience in a large international company also stay here. The sales are made in US$ and are deposited in banks in the US. There is no reason so transfer those funds out of the US. Those funds earn interest in US banks as easily as they do in offshore banks, they might even earn more interest here.
In addition those funds are at the disposal of the Corporate Finance Dept in Japan to be used in any way it wants anywhere in the world where it buys US$-denominated products.
Funds from vehicles imported are entirely different.
Incidently most major US corporations also sell a lot of product overseas. In fact, if you have an S&P 500 index fund, somewhere around 25% of the revenues come from overseas, so you actually have foreign exposure in a US company fund. Like it or not, business is now global.
If it drops them to 3rd in global sales, so much the better.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They add 5-10 mph because the speed limits on most limited access highways are posted too low. Utah recently found that when it raised the limit 80 mph on certain roads, people did not exceed the limit.
It's a myth that people will always 5-10 mph to the posted speed limit, just as it's a myth the speed kills on limited access highways.
That happens only because the posted speed limits are too low; raise the limit to reflect the capabilities of modern vehicles and roads, and and most people obey it.
210delray: You can go 70 mph legally on Cali freeways, and 75 or 80 in nearby states. Not high enough? In today's traffic with all of the driver distractions? No thanks.
In Arizona and New Mexico during the summer of 2008, the average speed on most limited access highways was 80 mph, with some people driving 90 mph. I didn't see any carnage, and the people who were causing problems were the ones driving the slowest.
210delray: Name ONE (actual, not theoretical -- and not from hooning on the freeway). Funny, I've never had to go 80 in 40+ years of driving to get out of a jam.
Pennsylvania has several short entrance ramps; I have accelerated from 65 mph to successfully merge into faster-moving traffic.
It's time to accept that most people drive 70-75 mph even in the Northeast, and even faster in western states and the Midwest, and it's perfectly safe.
I agree with the 85th percentile rule from engineers. The problem is the cops don't observe or believe in it too. For instance, the 85th percentile speed on freeways is always above 55, 65, or 70 where posted as such as the MAXIMUM speed in CA.
Unfortunately courts don't care what the speed surveys show on maximum speed cases.
As to roadways that are 65 or less under the basic speed law, a recent case with a Santee Sheriff got dismissed because he dare not show up in court against me. The speed survey showed that the ridiculously lowly set 55 MPH speed limit was below the 85th percentile (which was 57 MPH) and that was also almost 5 years ago! I'm also sure it was taken near the intersection, not on the down hill of Mission Gorge road going into Santee. I routinely see lazy officers from the Sheriff's dept. trying to pick people off and take advantage of the obscenely low 55 MPH speed limit when they know it should be 65 or 70, which is perfectly safe until you reach the first intersection or side entrance, which is at least a quarter mile past the downhill stretch they like to "enforce." They tried to enforce it against me but I was ready to show the judge the speed survey showing the 85th percentile was above 55, so why should the limit (mind you LIMIT) be less? wouldn't you round up, or is that using too much logic? The officer didn't show, and I would of bet $10,000 he wasn't going to before it happened in court recently.
You know what else, the speed survey showed that the accident rate made this stretch of HIGHLY enforced roadway 6 times safer than the AVERAGE road in Santee. Now you tell me why they are wasting time enforcing this stretch; safety, or revenue from people who don't bother to fight the man?
So I for one, can vouch that the Santee Sheriff's are corrupt, incompetent, and out for revenue right now. This may be why that black box is taking so long to find out information from.
Our governor-elect in VA has said he'd like to raise rural interstate speed limits to 70 mph (it's 65 mph now except on parts of I-85).
Now back to the topic at hand, please?
Grbeck is right on this. I've observed it with Indiana's rise in speed limit on interstate to 70/65 (trucks over a weight limit) and Ohio's limit for trucks raised to 65 same as cars. 95% drive within the higher limit they perceive as fairly correct.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In a $22000 midsized auto I wouldn't be surprised if these factors account for $4000 to $5000 of the MSRP. That's all exclusive of gross profit and taxes.
The other factors are
Fixed Costs, including engineering, plant, equipment, HQ charges,
Variable costs, steel, plastic, fabric, glass, rubber, labor, lights, utilities, etc. etc.
The breakdown can be very instructive.
UPDATED: 11/14/09 2:00 P.M.
TOKYO (Reuters) -- Toyota Motor Corp. will soon offer to fix the accelerator pedals of up to 4 million vehicles in the United States that are subject to the company's largest ever safety recall, Kyodo News reported.
....NHTSA said that discussions with Toyota continue "as to what the remedy will entail" and that the accelerator pedal is "among the subjects under consideration."
Toyota, the world's top automaker, said in late September it would recall some 3.8 million vehicles in the United States because of the risk that a loose floor mat could force down the accelerator, a problem suspected of causing crashes that killed five people.
Toyota has said it has confidence the problem is linked to floor mats and not a vehicle design flaw or problems related to braking, fuel or accelerator systems.
But NHTSA has said discussions included "several vehicle-based" factors that may contribute to pedal interference and a driver's ability to control and stop the car when the accelerator gets stuck.
.....Toyota has said that the cost of any related repair work have no effect on its business as the company has set aside nearly 500 billion yen ($5.6 billion) in provisions for recalls.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20091116/ANA02/311149991/1186
Yikes, Toyota has a standing fund of $5.6 BILLION for recalls? That saps some of my confidence in their cars, I must say.
Moving or redesigning the accelerators for 3.8 million vehicles might tax that recall budget......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Actually, it's just a smart business decision. Every carmaker has recalls, and they all probably have a recall fund just like that. Recalls are an inevitable part of selling cars.
Seems to me to be merely a case of good business planning to have a ready reserve instead of getting the bottom line smacked upside the head every time there is a recall.
If this does turn into a recall as anticipated, $5.6 billion might not be enough this year. :sick:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Here is another website of unhappy Toyota owners about the techniques used, or not used, to keep owners informed about problems. It was started November 10, 2009.
http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/
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It's difficult to find quality products any more. Everybody cuts corners as much as possible.
That's not any different than always.
Why do you think Ford started assembly lines for cars? Most cars, shortest time, lowest labor rates, more profit on the back end.
The goal of business has ALWAYS been to maximize their own profits. It has been done since the first humans began bartering.
Everyone wants as much as they can get. It's just humans being humans.
If an automaker has to recall a full model line for the past several years since the last redesign that could be millions of cars when you take platform sharing into account.