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Rocky
Rocky
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Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Still waiting on the proof that MBA guarantees $600k a year, or is that a multi-million guarantee? If that's true, I want one :-)
It's funny how you ignore all the substance of the debate but keep biting on the edge with the minutia . . . several times in a row. Care to attempt debunking my thesis that UAW was a product of greed not hardship because autoworkers were already making way above-average income when UAW took over the industry? that successful unions are almost always about preserving privileged positions at the expense of real little guys?
Miller, is a idiot like I said. Nobody including Rick Wagoner likes him. Miller will run Delphi into the ground with his arrogance and the proof is in the pudding. I wouldn't buy a GM car with Delphi parts for atleast 2 years because of the quality that the new temps are putting out the door. Dad says it's embarrassing, but said Miller is getting what he wants to pay for in labor. :sick:
Rick Wagoner, needs to go also. $19 an hour with ZERO benefits isn't going to get very good workers on average. Sure some will be attracted and will take risk in the hope they will get to stay and have a good job eventually.
I personally like you brightness, prefer to buy GM products. The difference between you and I, is I will only buy GM vehicles with a high percentage of domestic contenet and are Union Made. If GM, along with Ford, Chrysler attempts to get rid of it's NA operations, and squash the UAW, then the unionized Germans or Scandinavians will only get my money because I believe in supporting a company that treats it employees with good pay and benefits. It seems that american corporations will build their product wherever it's the cheapest, and that is something I refuse personally to support.
Rocky
As a Union person for 45 years I also have tried to buy Union made stuff. My shoe company Dexter is no longer made here. I imagine my trucks built in Canada and Mexico were Union made. Many of the parts Union Made. I think in the future it will be more and more difficult to "Buy Union". As much as you and I may not like the direction manufacturing is headed. It is going to happen. We are not now and will never be a closed society like Norway. The USA is a different breed of country than any other. We will have to adapt or get trampled by the hordes. It is a dog eat dog world and unless you can afford to go hide on some tropical island you will have to compete. If that means going from $26 per hour to $19, that's life. I remember when the IBEW guys took a 25% cut to maintain a contract with BP and ARCO in 1985. They did not like it but most of the guys stayed on. They are just now getting back to where they were in 1985. The non-union workers make at least 25% more than the Union workers at BP.
Rocky, what are you referring here to? What does $19 and Wagoner have to do with each other?
Rocky
Rocky
Most of my experience with dealers is flying in and buying a vehicle then driving back to CA or Alaska. I took my first 4 GM trucks to Bob Stall Chevrolet in La Mesa CA for service and any warranty work. I have never bought a vehicle from them. They have always treated me good. I cannot say that about the Toyota or Honda dealers that I have encountered here. Toyota does not rank high on customer service rankings. They are in the lower half of the list. I can see why with my experience.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
If any are hired they will have to be hired under the current UAW rules. The contract specifies that. Now if something happens after the next contract then OK. Maybe GM will get a dual wage plan then?
If any are hired they will have to be hired under the current UAW rules. The contract specifies that. Now if something happens after the next contract then OK. Maybe GM will get a dual wage plan then?
The current contract isn't being followed on the benefits plan. GM will be short of personel in 5 years and I doubt after this next contract that the transfer elgibility will still be a option. You could be right though. Right now their simpily isn't enough positions opened and you have to have atleast 10 years seniority to flow back to GM. The pre-1999-ers are the only ones elgible to flow back.
Rocky
Question. If you are in a job bank and a position opens up in another state are you required to move to it?
Yes, as far as I know. I'll ask dad that question when he gets home to get a definite answer.
Rocky
Rocky
Well, dah. . . no education background alone, regardless how advanced, is able to fetch $600k a year starting salary, in 2006 US dollars. That's why it was ridiculous for you to even bring out that guy to prove that somehow degrees give people undue high pay.
It's easy to heap personal abuses on Miller and Wagoner . . . What's it called? peanut gallery? I doubt either of us has the knowledge and experience on auto industry and how to run a big auto company remotely comparable to either of those two gentlemen. Both Miller and Wagoner had previous record of turning around failing operations, Miller at Chrysler (and other companies later) and Wagoner at GM Europe and GM Brazil. I for one never managed to turn around a single company, have you?
The difference between us is actually the firmness of our grasp on reality. . . only semi-kidding :-) Germans are at the forefront of out-sourcing. VW set up production in China long before either GM or Ford did. Building products wherever it's the cheapest, provided comparable product quality can be maintained, is the very reason for manufacturing companies to exist! While Japanese and American carmakers have been reasonably good at maitaining production quality at out-sourced plants, the German counterparts were/are not even good at that.
The bottom line is this brightness, the more education one has the more likely he/she will get compensated very well. That is the society we live in today.
It's easy to heap personal abuses on Miller and Wagoner . . . What's it called? peanut gallery? I doubt either of us has the knowledge and experience on auto industry and how to run a big auto company remotely comparable to either of those two gentlemen. Both Miller and Wagoner had previous record of turning around failing operations, Miller at Chrysler (and other companies later) and Wagoner at GM Europe and GM Brazil. I for one never managed to turn around a single company, have you?
I have no doubt in my mind, I would do better than both of them. General Motors, turn around would be a piece of cake actually. I know that sounds arrogant, but GM prescription for recovery is build good product and stand behind them.
I have never turn around a company, but yes have turned around a division of a company with the help of others.
The difference between us is actually the firmness of our grasp on reality. . . only semi-kidding
I agree
Germans are at the forefront of out-sourcing. VW set up production in China long before either GM or Ford did. Building products wherever it's the cheapest, provided comparable product quality can be maintained, is the very reason for manufacturing companies to exist! While Japanese and American car makers have been reasonably good at maintaining production quality at out-sourced plants, the German counterparts were/are not even good at that.
It's really sad to. The decision makers of company's will have to meet their maker eventually.
Rocky
I believe in the late 1960s they were building the Bug in Brazil and Mexico. During 1970s the VW Rabbit PU truck was the only vehicle built 100% in the USA. That came out as news when a town in PA wrote into a vehicle purchase order 100% US made. Outsourcing is done world wide.
Rocky
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_30/b3994060.htm?chan=globalbiz_a- sia_today%27s+top+story
I never realized that companies like Denso and Aisin were racking up such huge growth rates in the US - And as the last part of this article points out, the increased profitability is only going to widen the gap....
Just as hefty profits let Japan's car makers take the lead in safety and environmental technologies, Denso and the others are devoting more money to their own research to stay ahead of the game. "They have excellent product development," says Jeffrey K. Liker, a professor of industrial and operations engineering at the University of Michigan. "My belief is that they are better than their American competition."
Do they build the very fine DSG auto transmission used in the VW cars? It is the best transmission out there right now.
And you think that is unfair? In actuality, the wage premium of college education is declining . . . not surprising because more and more parents have been sending their kids to colleges hoping to capture that premium. Typical supply-and-demand balancing.
I have no doubt in my mind, I would do better than both of them. General Motors, turn around would be a piece of cake actually. I know that sounds arrogant, but GM prescription for recovery is build good product and stand behind them.
More fantasies. The myriads of conflicting definitions of "good product" makes your point pointless. GM vehicle quality is actually not bad nowadays, but nothing sells domestics quite as well as the deep discounts ;-) Chrysler has a far worse inventory problem than GM, and Ford is on the verge of crisis. The difficulties faced by the domestics are far worse than what the peanut gallery thinks they are.
I have never turn around a company, but yes have turned around a division of a company with the help of others.
Care to share more facts on that? I thought you never wanted management positions. How small was that "division" anyway? Like 1 person?
It's really sad to. The decision makers of company's will have to meet their maker eventually.
There's nothing sad about it. The ultimate duty of management, and any other employee, is maximizing shareholder value. It's the shareholders' and investors' job to figure out what line of work is most productive by investing according to consumer demand. Jobs programs that keep people in their sinecures really benefit nobody in the long run. It's far better to tell a 20+ year old to find a more productive line of work than to tell the same person 30 years later on the eve of his retirement.
Interesting statement. I notice the local Chrysler dealer has lots of cars stacked on their lot. They also have lots of jeeps, but they may not be all types--I don't know the jeep lineup these days.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It was the GMT-Process line division. We sat through many meanings with middle management on how the department could reduce waste and scrap loss. On a average night the GMT-Process line was running a rate of 60-70% scrap on headliners. My team got up individually and spoke about possible solutions to start meeting spec. Changes to the robots, oven, press, board shape, staplers, fabric, were all made and within 6 months we saved Johnson Controls over $12 million and were recognized company wide. When lay-offs came none of us were cut. I felt horrible for others that did and figured if I could find another job, one of them might beable to come back.
Rocky
It's one thing to improve a process that you know intimately - and quite another to improve the bottom line in a mega-corporation like GM.
Here is an analogy - you can boil a cup of water in under a minute. How long does it take to boil an ocean of water.
If you think any one person can have intricate knowledge about all of GM's operations as you have in your division - that person would have to be God.
BTW, Rocky, by your standard, I have turned around entire industries, with the help of others :-)
That is true in a very basic sense, but the underlying fact remains that a college education pays dividends. In fact, the gap between those with an undergraduate degree and those with a high school diploma remains quite large despite the recent narrowing. The gap between those with advanced degrees and those without is actually widening.
If only society could find a way to reward engineers instead of MBAs and PR hacks....
If only society could find a way to reward engineers instead of MBAs and PR hacks....
I have an engineering educational background myself . . . however, over the years, I have come to appreciate the value of MBA's and PR (well, not hacks ;-) Some of my best employees are MBA holders or candidates; they are indeed much better organized and more efficient than the run-of-the-mill college graduates that I also hire. When I have time, I may go back to school to get my own MBA or something. Engineering is a field with rapid obsolescence nowadays.
Rocky
Rocky, I like you, but this is just ridiculous. Here's what you said in an earlier post.
I have no doubt in my mind, I would do better than both of them. General Motors, turn around would be a piece of cake actually.
My Top 5 short and brief GM fix.
#1 Build desirable products. Why is this so damn hard to figure out ??? Like the Aztek, Catera, Vibe, GTO, etc, were desirable products. GM is getting better. Delphi parts I fear will cause some major headaches over the next few years.
#2 Pay UAW workers current wages with no pay increases on a five-year contract. Anyone with less than 15 years goes to 401K with company match, profit-sharing bonus with "X" percent, and employees get "X" amount of company stock all to increase productivity.
#3 Cut white collar jobs by at least 50-75%. GM is by far the most top heavy of any automobile company.
#4 Each brand would have no more than 5 models and would concentrate on perfecting them. I'd either eliminate GMC, or I would consolidate GMC and Chevy Trucks as one brand under GMC. Consolidate Saab and Saturn under one brand.
#5 I'd hire the best Marketing team money can buy to change american perception of GM. I'd also do whatever it takes to buy off Consumer Reports, and the national auto magazines for good reviews like Europeans, and Japanese do. Maybe slip a few bucks into edmunds pocket so they can do a fair comparo on vehicles. :P The bottom line is GM needs to get trend setters driving there vehicles, not just as cheap rentals. :sick:
So yeah I still think it's a piece of cake job, and not trying to disrespect Wagoner, Ghosn, Dr. Z, Bill Ford, they don't live on the same planet as you and I. They are so far out of touch with reality of what there modern customers want it isn't funny. They are still living in the 70's and 80's when consumers didn't have lots of choices and they could assemble a "tinament" with wheels and make billion$.
Rocky
Alternatively, they could simply make ultra-reliable vehicles, and a) they could save money on the marketing firm because it'd be a dead-easy job, and b) positive reviews would follow naturally.
Just a thought.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Rocky
So yeah the UAW has it's important role to play for the turnaround to hapen. i.e. more flexible work rules, elimination of pension, etc. IMHO it's going to start like you said with good product that is very reliable. I think a inexpensive way to change perception is charge the consumer a few more bucks and give their vehicles a Hyundai type of warranty. Cadillac, Saab, and maybe Buick gets the BMW scam they call "Free Maintence".
My 2 cents.
Rocky
P.S.
I still think Diamler-Chrysler & Ford are in way worst shape. :surprise:
Just a thought.
Shhhhh...
Don't interrupt his fantasy.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
1. GM's styles are acceptable. Desirability is a direct consequence of reliability. If a 5 year old girl does not like a 5 year old boy because he is rude, the girl alleges that the boy has "cooties" (ie a fictitious disease analogous to lice that justifies avoidance of the boy). GM's reliability history has given them the adult equivalent of cooties.
2-3. You have not given any concrete data to indicate that GM is top heavy. In fact, cutting 30,000 or 60,000 (whatever the recent number announced) BLUE collar jobs indicates that GM is "bottom" heavy, although if I worked as a line worker at GM I would view this term as derogatory if someone referred to me as the bottom.
4. Brand expansion is a proven way to increase market share. I would be real careful about pulling the plug on models unless a real tangible goal is in place to maintain and increase market share.
5. Now you're talking. My father is an avid Consumer Reports reader. In 2003, he purchased a Toyota 4-runner. Ironically, CR released a scathing report of the V6 4runner in 2003 due to a manufacturing defect. By the 37,000th production vehicle, Toyota had gotten ahold of the scathing report and fixed the problem. They requested CR to re-evaluate the vehicle. CR did. If you read a CR today, the V6 4runner will come up as higher than average reliability despite the initial report with several "black dots". This is how seriously Toyota takes CR. If GM and its workers only took reliability half as seriously as Toyota, they would never have dug themselves into the hole that they are in. Instead, it is the workers pointing at GM management as the source of all evil instead of standing up and holding managers accountable. I've indicated this concept earlier. The ONLY thing off the table at a company is how much money another person makes or spends. It is none of your business. On the other hand, if that highly paid person isn't producing a top notch product, THEY MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE OR EVERYONE LOSES.
Ghosn would cut jobs much quicker and more drastic than Wagoner . . . not that would be a bad thing, except for those who are pro-union . . . and the concept of having French ownership of the biggest American automakers seems to have slipped someone's notice (not that it would be a problem for dye-in-the-wool free-marketeer either).