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The UAW and Domestic Automakers

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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    What's BHPH ?

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    Buy Here Pay Here, shady lots for buyers with marginal at best credit. The ones that do their own financing, you know, where you can get a 29% APR special.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Okay I see. Yeah you are exactly right. Pretty soon that is going to be a requirement to buy cars. :sick:

    Rocky
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    they sold those washed in NO cars as "new" cars anywhere in the U.S.

    I like the floating 8'X40' shipping crate being used for NO replacement housing. And, no, I'm not being patronizing. An event like that has to be one of the most humiliating events a person can go through. Pontoonable housing, utilizing a large shipping crate like that would be an actual improvement over a stick-frame house that's prone to flooding out, eh?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    If jobs keep leaving in this country at it's current pace, we might have to make duplexes out of those crates for homes. :cry: My mom told me my pops is 49 yrs. old, not 48. I thought both of them were a year younger than that. She is 47, I thought she was 46. I'm like I'm a yr. behind. :surprise:

    Both my Step-dad, and aunt, say it's not looking good next contract. GM, filed a lawsuit yesterday against Delphi, while Delphi has filed suits against GM. Rick Wagoner, and Steve Miller, are fixing to go to war. The UAW, is going to have a hard time waiting to see who wins. The UAW, vowed to help Ford out further by reducing operating costs. Jennifer Granholm, even gave Ford huge tax incentives to stay in Michigan. :)

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The biggest impact may be on the area's labor market. The unemployed and underemployed have turned to Toyota and it's suppliers as a way to a better life for themselves and their families.

    Toyota has received about 100,000 applications to fill 2,000 jobs. Suppliers have fielded more than 10,000 applications for 2,100 jobs.

    Jobs on Toyota's production line come with the promise of a starting salary of more than $15 an hour, increasing to more than $20 an hour after several years, not to mention benefits. The supplier jobs start at $9 an hour for some suppliers and $11 an hour for others.


    Waht was Delphi offering? How can anyone compete with Toyota?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Delphi is still offering $14 an hr. ZERO benefits. My Aunt and Step-dad work their under those conditions.

    Here's the latest deal 62' pal. ;)

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060816/AUTO02/608160395/- - 1148/AUTO01

    They are in court as we speak. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Honda is competing with Toyota job wise. It seems like both are expanding.

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    If I recall your relatives are temp workers so I see the reasons for no beni's and low pay. However the Delphi employees are currently making with what beni's? No doubt they will lose some but I bet they still get better than what the Toyota supplier employees will get.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    If I recall your relatives are temp workers so I see the reasons for no beni's and low pay.

    Trust me both will be pernament, because they both have unique skills and my Step-dad has enough education and experience to qualify himself as a millwright. My aunt flat out is very mechanically inclinded and will be hired full-time eventually. She also is related to my family, and all you have to do is say my last name in the plant and you will be hired when the time comes.

    Te current Delphi workers (vets) are making the same as they always have until the court thing comes to a end. Most of the ones who have been able to flow back to GM, have already. Yes their is a few on the waiting list still. The new hires pretty much are running the plant, but are still taking directions from the vets that still remain.

    Could the UAW, go out on strike at the Delphi plants ? Sure could. I however think the UAW, will use Johnson Controls union plants as a guide for benefits and pay. ;) Which won't be as good as it was, but it won't be bad either. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    No doubt they will lose some but I bet they still get better than what the Toyota supplier employees will get.

    I'm not sure what you mean by this. GM and Toyota use alot of the same supplier plants 62'

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The biggest impact may be on the area's labor market. The unemployed and underemployed have turned to Toyota and it's suppliers as a way to a better life for themselves and their families.

    Toyota has received about 100,000 applications to fill 2,000 jobs. Suppliers have fielded more than 10,000 applications for 2,100 jobs.

    Jobs on Toyota's production line come with the promise of a starting salary of more than $15 an hour, increasing to more than $20 an hour after several years, not to mention benefits. The supplier jobs start at $9 an hour for some suppliers and $11 an hour for others.


    the above statement came out of Texas and referred to the new Tundra plant.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well yeah for San Antonio, those wages are pretty good when compared to the avg. wage. in SA.
    Toyota, should get plenty of illegal aliens to work those plants since San Antonio, because of Texas's soft borders are made up of a large illegal alien population. :sick:

    Oh well maybe Kinky, and his border solution is truely the way to go this coming fall. ;)

    Rocky
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Toyota, should get plenty of illegal aliens to work those plants since San Antonio, because of Texas's soft borders are made up of a large illegal alien population."

    I think the last thing Toyota wants to do is be acused of padding profits by hiring a large number of illegals. Do you have any evidence to back up your speculation or is that just a reflexive need to bash Toyota?

    BTW - since Texas has soft borders, would it be okay if I acused GM of hiring a bunch of illegals for their Texas plants as well?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I think the last thing Toyota wants to do is be acused of padding profits by hiring a large number of illegals. Do you have any evidence to back up your speculation or is that just a reflexive need to bash Toyota?

    It was solely a cheap shot at Toyota, because they are suppose to be moralely perfect and the toyota, fans can't handle the truth that Toyota corp. lied to them on the recalls. ;) I find it most amusing. :D

    BTW - since Texas has soft borders, would it be okay if I acused GM of hiring a bunch of illegals for their Texas plants as well?

    I highly doubt one could find a current illegal alien at those ancient UAW Tx GM plants. ;) I'm not saying it isn't possible, but very unlikely since the average worker is in their 40's-50's. ;)

    Rocky
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "It was solely a cheap shot at Toyota..."

    I'm glad we got THAT out of the way...

    "because they are suppose to be moralely perfect and the toyota, fans can't handle the truth that Toyota corp. lied to them on the recalls."

    Actually, I think it's more important to have good business ethics, but I understand what you're saying. Regarding the rest of that acusation.....what the heck are you talking about? What recalls did Toyota lie about, and to whom?

    "I highly doubt one could find a current illegal alien at those ancient UAW Tx GM plants."

    Weeeeeel, I dunno about that. I'm sure there's one or two (but FINDING them might be the problem). For the record, I imagine that both GM and Toyota would have virtually the same hiring practices regarding illegals; ie. it wouldn't be worth the risk.

    Another FYI - plenty of illegals are in their 40's and 50's.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    rorr, you got to be kidding about "what recalls ?"

    My goodness don't tell me you haven't seen the 2 million+ recalls toyota has had of late. ;) You really must be REALLY thirsty and are beginning to scare me with your hallucinations. :P :surprise:

    Rocky
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    I wasn't argueing the 'recall' portion of your statement. I'm trying to determine what the 'lie' was that you mentioned.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Toyota tried to cover the recall up and the Japanese, government filed a investigation.

    Rocky
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    So we are supposed to have a bunch of bureacrats to help us weigh impacts of "supposed choices" all day? Doe you even see the consequences of what you are proposing?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I've said it before. There are new laws put into effect about two years ago that puts more onus on the OEM to report safety issues. All of a sudden GM is having fewer recalls and Toyota is having more.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    Who else is going to weigh the impacts? The "market"? Policy has to be developed by some entity, that's how it works in the real world. It may be imperfect but it's what you have to live with. A completely unregulated market benefits the top few percent first and foremost.

    We're really going to be feeling the "consequences" of current economic "choices" in the coming decades. Stock up that safe room...

    Do you even see the consequences...indeed...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I guess he doesn't. :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    As many of you know already, the Delphi Bankruptcy issue vs. the UAW, got pushed back to December. "imagine that" :confuse:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I wonder if this will be the new contract offered to GM workers. $19 bucks an hour, with no benefits. :surprise: Tax-payers, open up your pocket books because of corporate greed. :sick: I wonder if Toyota, and Honda, will find this new approach benefitual since they are now paying to much ? :sick:

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    No that is the temp wages. I do not see GM lowering the wage rate for GM hourly. We will see fewer beni's; like higher copays and maybe even some monthly payments for medical insurance. Most likely the hourly will go the 401k supplemented retirement plan (pension will go away). Also the job banks will be gone (there will be no one in them anyway so the union will not put up a fight on that issue). I also will bet my pension that GM hourly will still have better pay and beni's than Toyota and Honda after the next contract talk.

    I love the way the "corporate greed" comes out. A company is trying to stay in business by paying the same as it's competitors and it is due to corporate greed.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    No that is the temp wages. I do not see GM lowering the wage rate for GM hourly. We will see fewer beni's; like higher copays and maybe even some monthly payments for medical insurance. Most likely the hourly will go the 401k supplemented retirement plan (pension will go away). Also the job banks will be gone (there will be no one in them anyway so the union will not put up a fight on that issue). I also will bet my pension that GM hourly will still have better pay and beni's than Toyota and Honda after the next contract talk.

    I agree with most of this. I doubt UAW/GM hourly will be better off finacially then Toyota and Honda workers if you factor the cost of living in the Midwest after next contract. ;)

    I love the way the "corporate greed" comes out. A company is trying to stay in business by paying the same as it's competitors and it is due to corporate greed.

    Well we could argue this one into the ground, but the bottom line is GM, is turning things around and got rid of alot of legacy costs for the future. The ones who are suffering is the working people in this country, because most of them are being squeezed to the point they will never see retirement in their future. I know life isn't fair, but you'd think we as a country would at least allow people to old to work the option of retirement, which is becoming more of a wish than a reality today for my generation.

    So my point being is yes, I believe it's "corporate greed," they control the politics in this country and could fix the current trends in this country IMHO. ;)

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    So my point being is yes, I believe it's "corporate greed," they control the politics in this country and could fix the current trends in this country IMHO

    Love it. The domestics control the politics in this country yet 3 of the biggest companies in the US with almost the most employees in the country cannot get to see the president even with the media talking about it. US business is fighting for their lives. US companies are going under everywhere. Why? Competition from other countries mostly. No one can stop the outside world except ourselves and we choose to to buy from where we want. No one forces us to buy all the Chinese stuff.

    Enough said.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Bottom line look at who we have in office and that should answer your question. ;) :P I guess the big 3 didn't give/contribute enough money ? :confuse: Lutz says he switching sides so we'll see. ;)

    The rest I agree we are stupid people and agree we are dumb for buying so much Chinese. Can our economy absorb us buying Chinese made cars to ? :surprise:

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Does not matter who is in office. The world cannot be stopped. It is a global economy. Best we can do is work toward free trade with rules. Right now China is not playing by the rules and we do not have any kind of carrot or stick that we can use that can get them to play fair. We try and hit them with the stick and things could go way bad.

    What would happen if China stopped exporting to US? Our stores would empty out and the public would revolt. China would also be in trouble. Its a standoff.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    And that's a bad thing ? :confuse:

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Great! I would LOVE to go into a store to buy something and no longer see a "Made in China" label on it! My Dad put it best when he lost his manufacturing job of 24 years and ended up working at a Lowe's, "If everything in this store was made here, nobody would be out of work!"

    We should make and buy our own stuff.The Chinese definately have enough people to make and buy their own stuff. The Chinese got to learn to follow the example that made the U.S. prosperous by treating its workers well and paying them a fair wage.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    lemko, you'd think that would be common sense to make a nation strong. Your father is a wise man with good common sense like his son IMHO. ;)

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    If Chinese workers were paid a justifiable and responsible wage, they'd have more ability to question their cowardly hardline government. Not gonna happen.

    The US has a huge carrot it can use against the Chinese - indeed, simply stop importing the junk. The public has little say in what goes on anyway.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    That is a laugh. The US government says no more Chinese exports to US. The public rushes to every Box store in the US and cleans them out in the ugliest swarm of humanity to get the last of everything. You have seen the videos of woment fighting over sales items at Marshall Fields? Wait till you see what happens when we cut off China. One week later the stores are empty and there is nothing left. The public physically storms the centers of government and hangs the politicians.

    OK so they could do it slowly but it sure is not a pretty picture.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    We'll see my imagined revolution at the hands of the burgeoning underclass before that scenario could play out. Gas can rise 50% in no time and nobody does a thing...I don't see this as being much different. We're also living under one of the most corrupt, incompetent, and amoral regimes in modern times, and nobody does a thing. Limiting cheap goods from a non-friendly country won't change it.

    If the junk wasn't made there, it would end up being made here, and the story would end. People would get their crap fixation and would maybe adapt to buying less crap in total. Win-win. Sooner or later China will be involved in a war and exports of semi-slave-labor junk will slow...what then?

    Ethics and long term thinking have no place in big business, I know.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Very Very good post fintail. I think the last straw will be the importation of the Chin-E- class of cars. If they succeed, we are goners. :(

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    That means I'll keep my old cars as long as I can. Those poorly styled knockoffs from a totalitarian state make a Segway look appealing.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    LOL, how true your words are. ;)

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    If those new Chin-E-Class cars succeed, I guess I'll be keeping my current cars for so long that Cubans will be coming to me for advice on how to keep old American cars running for so long.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    If the socio-economic spectrum really does devolve as it easily could, I wonder if the US will look like Cuba, with many 50 and 60 year old cars still being nursed along in a labor of love (and necessity).

    Of course, by then corporate interests will have an even stronger hold over legislation, and operation of anything before year x will be illegal and punishable by time in a prison camp - to spur new sales of course, on 10-15 year financing terms.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Could you image taking the equivalent of a short-term mortgage on a cheap Chinese-made car in the future, one that will probably be long dead before you pay off the loan? I guess if we're all working part-time sans benefits at Wal-Mart, a 15-year car loan would be all that is possible for the average slob. Picture this:

    "$99 down! $99 a month at the Cherry Hill Triplex for a brand new Chery Chine-E-Class! No credit? Bad Credit? Wal-Mart worker? No problem! Each new Chery comes with discounted credit life insurance!"

    subjecttocreditapprovalloantermsfor15yearsat37.5%interestanddownpaymentofyourfir- stbornchildandallthemoneyyoumadesince1976taxesandtitleextra
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    Indian cars are all coming. Dig it and thrill to it. Ease yourself into it. Don't fight it.

    Now, if you're talking a '62 Chevy Nova SS or a '55 Chevy to restore or buy already restored, then maybe the foreign import onslaught can be abated for a tad. The Hyundai/Kia megalopy and all the myriads of Japanese cars are going to have to lower their prices or the better choice will be a lower-cost Chinese car.

    Like a classic Lynyrd Skynyrd tune, dig it!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    lemko, that is the funniest thing you've ever posted pal. :D ROTFFLMAO !!!!

    Rocky
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    If we stopped importing from China... we'd import from India and Central/South America.

    The prices would end up being a few dollars more per item, but that's about it.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Point is that we will import the cheapest goods possible because that is what the people want. Nothing to do with our government. WE want the cheap goods to support our lifestyles.

    the Union is really in trouble here in the states. There was even an article in the Detroit Free Press that most want to go to a right to work state. They are tired of being forced to join unions to get a job.

    She was among a majority of Michiganders -- 56% to 35% -- in the Free Press-Local 4 Michigan Poll who said that they favor the change. Of respondents in union households, 42% said they favored such a change.

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006609030710
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    What's even more amazing those same people want the union pay and benefits plan, and our so dumb to think "the company" is just giving those benefits just because they wanted to out of the kindness of their heart. They don't want to pay union dues, but want to reap all the benefits. How Poethetic, and Tasteless. Like the old saying goes, nobody is forcing you to work there. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I also don't believe those poll numbers and think they have been doctored.

    Rocky
This discussion has been closed.