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Wouldn't Be Caught Dead Driving One

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    blnewtoblnewto Member Posts: 146
    Buick Rendevous. At least the Aztec just screams "I'm Butt-ugly". The Rendevous was GMs' attempt to disguise this eyesore w/ sleek lines and even more plastic. This one screams "I'm butt-ugly, but I'm hoping since it's a Buick (so you must be very old) maybe you won't notice it's just $7000 tacked onto an Aztec", LOL
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    calidavecalidave Member Posts: 156
    not that we are supposed to criticize another person's choice, but....

    I never thought the Rendezvous was that bad. If you wanted what the Rendezvous offered, you didn't have many other choices. If you don't want an SUV, but you want some utility, and you like the higher driving position, but you dont' want a minivan, your choices have been.....the Lexus RX series and......the Rendezvous....maybe the Subaru Forester...maybe...or a Murano

    There's not twenty choices, like with Sedans..or SUVs...or econocars.

    If you ever get achance, find a Rendesvous parked next to a Lexus RX330. You'll be very surprised at the similarities.

    The dependability is not bad. The interior is better than a Honda Pilot or Toyota Rav4. It drives better than any of the minvans.

    The Aztek was ugly. No question. Even people who like the Honda Element didn't think the Aztek looked good. The design people missed it. But there was nothing wrong with the vehicle....well, it did need a better engine...and suspension..and steering. But it still wasn't BAD.

    I do think the Murano, RX330/400 and the Forester are preferable....but then you wouldn't be buying American, would ya?
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    bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    You call your experience with your vehicle and what your friends have told you about Hyundais proof? The only thing that's proof of is a very small sample. Too small in fact to base a buying decision on. Reliability data is available, but you apparently aren't interested in knowing what the REAL scoop is. Instead, you insinuate that Hondas and Toyotas aren't built as well as they were 10-20 years ago? Would you care to make any other incorrect insinuations while you're at it?
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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,350
    You call your experience with your vehicle and what your friends have told you about Hyundais proof?

    Remember I also talk to people about their cars before I buy one so I have talked to more than friends. That being said if the make is so bad statistically then one really bad car should be found in a relatively small sample. So far thats not the case. Even if the sample is small statistically even a relatively small sample should show some disparity between a very bad car and a very good one. So far I haven't seen it.

    Instead, you insinuate that Hondas and Toyotas aren't built as well as they were 10-20 years ago?

    I haven't said that, so please don't put words in my mouth. What I have said is that just because a manufacturer made cars well 20 years ago doesn't mean that they will now. I am not concerned with the past, I want to know what the car I will be buying will do. Any investment professional will tell you that past performance is no indication of future performance. Current facts (facts which you seem to want to dismiss) is that many groups (J.D. Powers, and CR for example) say that Hyundais are one of the most reliable makes now. That fact will influence my buying decision far more than car A was more reliable in the past.

    Now I still stand buy my statement that they make cars as good as anyone else including the Japanese. You must think so too else why would you spend so much time trying to disprove it?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    I'm jumping in here without rereading past posts.

    I observe a lot of above average age buyers in Hyundae in my area. That shows they are finding them dependable and spreading their experiences. The style is good now. I will look at Hyundai when I get ready to replace my LeSabre(s). I will start asking people in parking lots their experience with their Hyundai.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,723
    that people have to remember is that nowadays the overall reliability averages are really close enough together that there really isn't that much of a difference between a car that's considered ultra-reliable and one that's considered just average, or even a little below.

    For instance, the way CR breaks down their reliability ratings goes something like this...

    Much Better than Average: 0-3% of vehicles have problems for a given category
    Better than Average: 3-5% have problems
    Average: 5-8% have problems
    Worse than average: 8-14% have problems
    Much worse than average: 14% or more have problems.

    So think about it. Car A with a much better than average rating might come in at 2.99%, while Car B with a much worse than average rating might come in at 14.01%

    In either case, the vast majority of the cars in this example do NOT have problems. However, you're still probably best off staying away from a car that has too many much worse than average ratings in its various CR categories. While one black circle might not spell impending doom, several of them might. And when you consider that a little black circle might mean that only 14.01% of the cars have a given problem, it could also mean that 100% of them do! :surprise:

    But if we're talking about cars where the vast majority of their categories in the CR list come out average, better, and much better than average, that's pretty insignificant.

    And don't put too much faith in the JD Powers surveys or whatever, where they give the same weight to poor fuel economy as they do to a blown transmission!

    Basically, buy what you like, don't worry about what others say about it, but at the same time don't hug your brand so hard that you start thinking it's perfect. No brand is infallible.
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    lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Those taillights are pretty bad. They look like they belong on a Korean car. At least with the Maxima you get a really nice car to go along with the ugly taillights.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,723
    better be an awfully damn nice driving car, because it has a LOT of shortcomings to make up for! I think the whole thing is a mess, style-wise, from stem to stern, inside and out. And when did it become common to start using electrical tape as blackout trim?! :blush:

    I just don't see any reason to go for a Maxima, versus a nicely equipped Altima. Still, through November 30 of this year they sold like 69-70,000 of them, so they must have SOME redeeming qualities! :P
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    lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    A fully decked out Altima lists for over $30K and a Maxima can hit over $35. Why not just buy a G35 and be done with it?
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    ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    Rather have a Maxima than a Kia. Did'nt the Kia just pull a #1 ranking in the least safe car?

    So you're cheap and unsafe at the same time. Ouch.
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    bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    There's a big difference between building the best cars 20 years ago and building the best cars over the last 20 years. You seem to be a bit confused about that. And back to your original statement of the Koreans building vehicles that are just as good as those the Japanese are building, the numbers just don't support that statement.
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    Nicely written post. Good summary based in REALITY about RELIABILITY.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,350
    No, I just know the difference between the PAST and the PRESENT. Again I showed facts that said tin the PRESENT they make high quality cars, you refuse to accept that fact and want to live in the past. Thats ok by me but please don't make personal attacks on me because I desire more relevant facts, thank you.

    Now back to my statement, the facts support it, you just don't want to accept that those facts.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    The problem with Andre is he is always so reasonable. It is impossible to get him riled up, I think.
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    emmanuelchokeemmanuelchoke Member Posts: 97
    The neighbor has one. In the summer it grew a bug stubble ..looked like it needed a bikini wax. Freakishly ugly.
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    scramblinmanscramblinman Member Posts: 33
    A fully decked out Altima lists for over $30K and a Maxima can hit over $35. Why not just buy a G35 and be done with it?

    Only a fool would pay MSRP for an Altima or a Maxima. Nissan periodically offers incentives on the cars and dealers are willing to negotiate on price. As an example, we purchased one of the last remaining 2 new 05s at a local dealer, a Liquid Silver SE with Driver Preferred Package, Sunroof, Floor/Trunk Mats, Splash Guards, and Chrome Wheels on 10/29. MSRP $34,290. Invoice $30,900. Dealer quoted $29,999 over the phone, - $1750 factory rebate = $28,249 + T&L or $30,880 out the door.

    We took a hard look at a new 05 G35x and comparably equipped it would have run about $35-36k. Aside from the fact that we found it a bit too small, there were no incentives and the Infiniti dealer seemed unwilling to negotiate much on price. I really liked the M35x, but apparently so do a lot of others and Infiniti is definitely unwilling to come down much if any off MSRP on that model.
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    scramblinmanscramblinman Member Posts: 33
    driving one of those Nissan Maxima's with the R2D2 taillights. Can you say ugly?

    They look okay to me... :confuse:

    Image hosted by Photobucket.com

    Can't say as to how they are any better or worse than...

    Image hosted by Photobucket.com
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    wfbwfb Member Posts: 10
    That being said I will stand by my statement Hyundai builds them as well as anyone else including Japan.

    There's a good reason for that. Japanese car companies have taken over much of the Korean companies after they got into financial trouble and implemented their values in Korea. Meanwhile, the same Japanese car companies have built factories in the US and we are now buying Hondas, Mazdas and Toyotas made by the same workers who make Chevy, Ford, etc.
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    inajoonginajoong Member Posts: 46
    There's a good reason for that. Japanese car companies have taken over much of the Korean companies after they got into financial trouble and implemented their values in Korea.

    is this based on facts?
    i've never heard of this.
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    scramblinmanscramblinman Member Posts: 33
    anything with the speedometer/cluster in the center of the dash. just something about it not to our liking here at our homestead.


    I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Behold the classic Jeep dash:

    Image hosted by Photobucket.com

    :shades:
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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Appreciate the image size awareness!!

    image
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    151ranch151ranch Member Posts: 109
    A Jeep with an automatic transmission

    A Cadillac/Lincoln/Lexus version of what is basically a truck (Escalade, GX470)

    Any sports car without a clutch pedal.

    Aztec (I own an Element, but you have to draw the line somewhere :blush: )

    Cadillac DTS, Lincoln Town Car, etc.

    Toyota Echo - ugly, ugly, ugly

    An vehicle that pretends to be a truck ala Ridgeline

    M-I-N-I-V-A-N My kids can fit in the back of a Civic and be happy about it - I was stuck in the back of 1981 200SX
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    bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    There's a good reason for that. Japanese car companies have taken over much of the Korean companies after they got into financial trouble and implemented their values in Korea.

    Wow, that's wrong. South Korea had five automakers at the time of the 1998 Asian financial meltdown: Hyundai, Kia, Daewoo, Samsung, and Ssangyong. Hyundai had just been spun off as a standalone company from the rest of the Hyundai industrial empire, and had the resources and market share to remain solvent. The other four went bust. Hyundai acquired a plurality stake in Kia (with Ford bailing out of its relationship with Kia at this time), GM bought up part of Daewoo and reorganized it as GMDAT, Renault bought Samsung's automotive arm and got them to building previous-generation Nissans, and Ssangyong was bought up by Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp.
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    bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    I don't think so. The Japanese have (over the last 20 years) and still do (present) build the most reliable vehicles on the planet. The numbers show it. There are no numbers to suggest even the newest Korean vehicles are built as well as the Japanese vehicles. Who's confused?
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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,350
    Hyundai had just been spun off as a standalone company from the rest of the Hyundai industrial empire,

    If I am not mistaken the Hyundai industrial empire is now 4 or 5 stand alone companies.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,350
    Ok you can think what you want, there are people out there that think Elvis is still alive too. That doesn't change the fact that in the here and now Hyundai is rated at the top in reliability by many reports (a fact that you are completely ignoring).

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    The Japanese have (over the last 20 years) and still do (present) build the most reliable vehicles on the planet. The numbers show it.

    The numbers may show it, but the public's perception also shows it. In my area people snicker at the Kias. And I like the new Hyundais but wouldn't dream of actually buying one.

    Most car purchases are based on feelings and perception. The few that 'crunch the numbers' when buying a car are vastly outnumbered by the ones that buy because how they feel about the vehicle.

    So sure - the Japanese can sell the steak - but they also know how to sell/market the sizzle.
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    ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    They're also rated near the bottom by many reports, and by the average, non-Korean American.
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    carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    This thread is about who's at the absolute bottom, not who's on top.

    And man are people here picky about what they'll be seen in. We've had offers to sever body parts, offers to turn down thousands of dollars worth of hypothetical free car, and we could even say that posters have offered their life to preserve their 'dignity'.

    It was a fun thread for a while though.
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    jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I'm sure in 2004 nobody could get a Maxima SL equipped like an I35 for under $26K, which was my logic to just get the Infiniti. (granted, the Maxima was a newer design, but the old design wasn't so bad)

    Sometimes it just makes sense to get the more prestigious car, especially when the "luxury" version is on the fire-sale discount clearance rack.
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    bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Hyundai may rank high in reliability, but they don't rank as high in LONG TERM reliability as the Japanese, and that's the true measure of build quality. BTW, hard numbers and believing in Elvis are at the opposite ends of the spectrum, and you are closer to the Elvis end. The Koreans are simply not there yet, if ever.
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    harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005249

    Think top 5 are lexus, toyota,honda,chevy and hyundai.

    Check it out, see where your favorite brands rank for return business.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,723
    that Chevy is doing so well in retaining buyers. Maybe it's because of their trucks? I guess they're also at the point though, that the Impala, Malibu, and Cobalt are substantially improved over the cars that came before them...cars that are now getting traded in.

    I'm surprised that Buick's not doing so hot...I figured they'd be one of the more brand-loyal marques. I can actually think of one reason, but I'm not going to say it because I know Imidazol97 would give me a smack-down for it! :P
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    stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    We will see whose laughing when their car is full of sludge.
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    jimmy81jimmy81 Member Posts: 170
    Maybe that car will end up in the junk yard with millions of Hyundais and Kias
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    rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I wouldn't be caught dead in either one !!! ;)

    Rocky
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    kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Chevy Aveo - screams you've just made it "big" as assistant manager at McBurger's.

    Scion XB - Cartoon looks.

    Honda Insight - ultimate aerodynamics ruined any sort of style.

    Hummer H3 - must ask the question if you're stupid for buying a 4,500Lb truck for $30K+, with a 5-cyl. engine?

    Aztek - only would buy used for a few thousand $'s; and only if I needed an AWD winter-beater.

    Camry/Accord (4 cyl) - makes the statement that you find no passion in something as visceral as driving, want to blend in, have 2.3 college-bound children, and now find excitement to be a new season of Survivor.

    any Ford - I personally have had many problems - worst: a timing-belt breaking at 13K miles. I have never seen a company that has so many SERIOUS recall problems - Firestone tires on Explorers, fuelrails, bad ignitions, gastank placement in Crown Vics ... They should install fire extinguishers in them as standard equipment. Maybe I'd try a Fusion; but then I might hate myself for being duped again.

    any Kia or Hyundai - oh yes, many of you will quote the price is a few thousand less than a Japanese car, and the long warranty. Unfortunately there's a fairly good chance that during that 10-year warranty, it becomes void. I believe their factories are within range of N. Korean artillery, along the most heavily armed and unstable areas of the world.
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    jefferygjefferyg Member Posts: 418
    I really don't know what the case is here, but I do know that there are dozens of them that I see on a regular basis. My understanding is that currently a car becomes an antique when it is 25 years old (at least in MS). I would love to see that figure incresed significantly. It just is not right that the first Tempos will soon be antiques. Besides, I'm only 35 myself and NO CAR YOUNGER THAN I AM SHOULD EVER BE AN ANTIQUE!!! :shades:
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    chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    Unfortunately there's a fairly good chance that during that 10-year warranty, it becomes void.

    Being a 2 Kia Rio Cinco (2002 and 2004) 28,000 and 4500 TROUBLE FREE miles respefually. How do figure that?
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    jimmy81jimmy81 Member Posts: 170
    Nice writing skills (sorry for the low blow)

    Looks like you're stuck with the damn things for a while now aren't you?
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    >dropping a requirement that 4% of it be invested in GM stock.

    Or for thinking it.

    I suspect Buick's lower rate is _partly_ because of fewer choices. There used to be Skyhawk, Skylark, Century, REgal, LeSabre, RDZ and buyers could move among those. The choices have narrowed and only 4 are planned, two cars and two trucks. Add to that Buick types going to Hyundai and Camry and even Toyota Lexus 330 series, and you're right.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I'm simply stating that in order to get a 10 year warranty from those Korean companies, N. Korea can't start a war with the South. The geopolitics are far too lenghty to get into here; but I will say that N. Korea is the most neurotic, unstable and psychopathic nation/leader in the world, and heavily armed. If N. Korea decides to go to war, Seoul is in range of thousands of long-range artillery and missile batteries. Kia and Hyundai could cease to exist tomorrow. :( It's not likely to happen overall, but it is the highest risk.
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    jimmy81jimmy81 Member Posts: 170
    Hmmm. So if Honda can get N Korea agitated enough to lob the scuds into Seoul........
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    "Unfortunately there's a fairly good chance that during that 10-year warranty, it becomes void. I believe their factories are within range of N. Korean artillery, along the most heavily armed and unstable areas of the world."

    Yeah, along with the most heavily-armed and unstable dictator in charge of the regime. Actually, he's been pretty quiet lately.
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    jefferygjefferyg Member Posts: 418
    If it cost 50% or more than our home, I ain;t buying it

    If it cost 50% of my last home financed at 4.9% for 60 months, that'd equal about $1900/month. I just can't see it happening.
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    jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    If it cost 50% or more than our home, I ain;t buying it

    I guess that means that all those Southern California 2 bedroom condominium owners who use that philosophy can justify getting a Maybach.

    Just kidding. 50% of my home,(and I don't live in Sothern California) financed at 0% for 60 months comes out to around $4917 per month.

    That's a lot of car if you ask me...
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I'm tired of meaningless drivel of the other vs. forums, so i'll come here. I'd definitely buy Korean before buying a Chrysler product! Two Chryslers and two bad experiences later, I will never be caught in one of those, unless I died riding in one when the tranny blew up!
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    jefferygjefferyg Member Posts: 418
    If you ever get achance, find a Rendesvous parked next to a Lexus RX330. You'll be very surprised at the similarities.

    I just can't let this one go. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!

    Outside of four wheels and all the other basic equipment found on virtually every SUV - like, um, seats maybe? - I just don't see the similarities. One of my best friends drives a Rendezvous (man that's hard to spell) and granted, it rides great, its got plenty of room for the golf clubs, it's quiet - But it ain't no Lexus.

    The RX330 is a very nice crossover suv. The Rendezvous is more like a minivan that's missing two feet and a couple of sliding doors. The first time I saw one it was one of those "what were they thinking" moments.
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    iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    now we're gonna mush over N.Korea lobbing missiles into hated S.Korean HyunKia? You guys really hate Hyundai and Kia, don't you? Fact is they are doing so many good things automotively right now and continually improve year after year.

    Kia is just below the industry average at bringing back return customers but notice how high Hyundai is? Answer me this: why would so many Hyundai buyers come back and buy again?

    Do you really think that people would spend their hard earned cash twice on the same kind of vehicle if they didn't feel confident in that brand of rig? You guys crack me up!

    I am on my 2nd Kia in a row and my present Kia, a 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4, has blown nary a light bulb out in 106,900 miles! I can't believe it! I also achieved 102,000 on my OEM Hankook SUV tires on my 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4. If I were driving a Ford Escape I'd either be upside down in a ditch by now or already blown through about 25 taillights.

    What is it with Ford's crappy taillight bulb engineering, anyway?

    The future of automobiles is all South Korean. I can see it clearly and, as another interesting point to ponder, consider this all you cyber-friendly automotive fiends: South Korea is the world's finest producer of scholarly students. It's true, the world's finest students are South Korean. They probably know where Pierre, South Dakota is and most American students wouldn't know where South Korea is on the globe. Sad, but true.

    Consider this: don't you think Kia and Hyundai are getting some of those fine students out of South Korean colleges? Yes, we are truly getting world-class engineering in our Kia's and Hyundai's! :D

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

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    jefferygjefferyg Member Posts: 418
    anything with bottgers and snakeweasel in it at the same time! :P

    Both you guys should be doomed to drive Yugo's for the rest of your life - just kidding, love the passionate banter. :shades:
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