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Comments
I test drove the V/6 2007 Camry SE, but that was before I read the complaints on Edmunds. From what I could tell from my short test drive, the engine performed well.
I ended up buying a 2007 Maxima a year ago. I almost bought a 2003 Accord, but I ended up buying a 2004 Maxima instead. I liked the larger size. Now, the 2008 Accord is the same larger size as the Maxima, so the new Accord is much more attractive to me.
In studying the brochure on the 2008 Accord, I note that the cylinder deactivation is only on the V/6 in the sedan. It is not on the V/6 in the Accord coupe. The EPA with cylinder deactivation is 19/29, and without, 19/28. For such a small savings in fuel, why would I want a V/6 with 268 HP that operates on 3 cylinders or 4 cylinders most of the time? Plus, I take the risk of new technology. I can buy a 4-cylinder with either 177 or 190 HP that runs on 4-cylinders all the time. Plus, I don't need Active Noise Cancellation (so I can't hear my V/6 shaking apart while running on 3-cylinders!
22/32 (VCM,AT)
19/28 (non-VCM,MT)
So, there seems to be quite a gain. This generation of VCM seems to hold greater promise, IMO, than the last (being used in Odyssey and Pilot, and was used in Accord Hybrid). The key being addition of V4 mode.
In the first generation, VCM had only V6 or I3 mode, and the latter was often insufficient for heavier vehicles at higher speeds. The new system adds V4 mode which will be triggered at highway speeds and during moderate power requirements in city. Low speed/low power requirement will trigger I-3 mode. For acceleration, all six will be out working. And based on reviews (professional, and now a few owners), the transition appears to be seamless.
The point of 3/4 cylinder mode is that for most of our driving needs, we don't need six cylinders. To put that in perspective, I decided to see what kind of mileage I can get in my TL exclusively between 60-65 mph highway. I was surprised to see 36 mpg with an occasional flirtation with 37 mpg (trip computer), and this was over a 10 mile stretch. Clearly, I wasn't using the potential of the V6, but was driving more cautiously to maximize fuel economy while keeping the speed between 60-65 mph. If I get a chance this weekend, and take my TL on a longer drive, I will surely take a picture of the mileage and post it.
With VCM, it should be possible to get (or may be exceed) that kind of mileage without trying to maintain minimum power myself.
And VCM is not new. It is five years old in production (It has been standard feature in Honda Inspire in Japan since MY2003... Inspire is basically American Accord).
Active Noise Cancellation isn't a big deal. I have two headphones sitting on my desk right now that use the same technology, and I don't fly without one of them. It is also a standard feature in Acura RL, without VCM.
Besides, Honda has made most of the Accords in Ohio, since 1982. That is the plant that deserves the credit for Accord's reputation for quality.
His 2005 Ohio-built Accord and my 2006 Ohio built Accord are much quieter/tighter.
My 1996 Accord has 174.5k miles on it, and only one minor rattle under the passenger seat!
My wife has been so disappointed and complained about the noise. I also have been skeptical about the "new technology" Honda has put in new Accord models too. Otherwise, IMA (Integrated Management Assist is good). I have become tired and not bring back my hybrid to the dealer anymore. I spent quite a whole lot on it including extended warranty and purchase at MSRP when I bought it to appreciate the "new technolgy". But my son loves and drives it because it is the newest car with most HP in my fleet of Accord.
PLEASE BE CAREFUL. Thanks to the guy who brought up this issue (noise cancellation....). It reminded me about the "Noise". My Accord hybrid was built in Japan. The more complicated the more SH.'s happening. It's just exactly like several complex pieces of software application at my work. I feel tired and bored and want to retire as soon as I can afford to. I managed to take my 3 Accords to shops for services during 7 hours today including some other errands. I feel real exhausted now. But tomorrow Saturday I can "kick back" and relax. Overall, I still like Accord more than Camry for power. Only Camry SE can compare with Accord EX-L. It may be good to me to wait for a little while for the Accord '08 so buyers can point out issues.
I filled out my email address in a Honda/ some websites to request Accord '08 brochure. Immediately, the Internet Sale Manager at Honda dealer near my home sent me a responding email. The TL must have more values than the Accord V6 EX. 3 friends at my work bought the TL.
I have no idea. Thanks for asking. Honda dealers said it's normal after they test drove it 10 miles. SHHHHHH. !
However, you have to hunt for Vehicle Stability Control which is a very important safety feature and should be required on all cars by NHTSA. Because of politics, it won't be required til 2012, but it is standard on the new Accord. On Camry's, it's practically impossible to find in the south.
Although I really wanted to like the 2007 Accord, esp. since they got so cheap, I really did not like the ride and noise. The Honda EX-L interior quality was a lot better than the Camry, but was not enough to swing my vote. I had pretty much decided on a Camry but got delayed, so I'm going to try out the new Accord and hope the noise and ride are better, as I'd rather pay a few bucks more for the Honda product.
BTW, on the shifting in the Camry's: Toyota sent out a software upgrade which seemed to have taken care of the complaints. When I test drove the XLE and SE last month they zoomed pretty good when you stepped on the gas and exhibited no hesitation or other oddities. Since the transmissions are software controlled these days, I expect that Honda would change the shifting characteristics if there are a lot of complaints.
I don't know about the brochure that you're looking at. But the V6 automatic in the coupe definitely has VCM.
See the coupe spec chart here:
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/812/releases/4102
You need the VCM to get the 19/28 gas mileage. As the chart shows, the Coupe V6 manual without VCM, the mileage drops to 17/25
I have never bought Toyota/ Camry except my wife did not listen to my advice and bought a Camry 1990. One of its engine tube connecting to the spark plug was cracked and oil got in at 40K miles. So, only 3 engines worked and I could not drive up hills with full 120HP something. When I brought it to Toyota dealer they charged me $500 to seal the crack with "idiot silicone". Problem was not solved and my wife suffered with only 3 engines. Since then, I have never allowed my wife buying any more Toyota. Toyota President just issued warnings to his workers to beep up "Toyota car/ truck quality". Toyota may be the biggest car builder company but I am not confidence in their cars' quality, except the Camry running eerily quiet like an elderly lady.
Also, the new Infinity FX45 SUV (?) looks so busy, ugly like a blue collar worker whose lower part is inflatingly overweighed. It looks exactly like a big CRAB "crawling" on the streets. It's the worst SUV's appearance I have ever seen. I do not see the aesthetic aspect in that ugly SUV. Infinity engineers, please take courses to learn more about the arts concept before designing additional cars/ SUVs. That ugly SUV looks like a big CRAB running busily on the streets.
I look and pay much respect and admiration to all Honda cars/ owners, especially new model "VOOOOOWING" on the roads everyday. I believe Accord' 08 will be a big HIT. Looking forwards to buy one ASAP.
"A broken Dad to his spoiled college kids"
My son and I still love my Accord hybrid '05. Power and power on my Accord hybrid. Nothing less. I bought it but my spoiled little son "stole" it from me when he entered college.
With the 4-cylinder, you get better fuel economy, sufficient power, and an engine proven over many years. I had a 1983 Accord (no 6-cylinder available at that time), and the engine really ran smooth. My wife had a 1994 V/6 Camry (about the first year for the V/6) with the oil sludge problem. The engine eventually blew the head gasket, and the piston sleeves dropped and Toyota said the engine was junk and could not be rebuilt. So, we put in an engine from a junk yard and got rid of the car. Toyota told me that their 4-cylinder engines typically run 250,000 miles, and that a person was lucky getting 150,000 miles with the V/6.
So, no more Toyotas for us. My Accord was one of the best cars I ever owned.
I suspect that 80% of the 2008 Accords will be sold with the 4-cylinder engine.
P.S. I rechecked my brochure and the 2008 V/6 Coupe with AT does have cylinder deactivation.
People do not buy the V6 for value. They buy the V6 for the luxury of more power and refinement in exchange for paying more money.
I don't understand what you mean. Its fine if you prefer the I4, but the logic seems to be wanting. When you say "You have 177 or 190 HP all the time" on the I4's and only half the total hp on the V6, I'm assuming what you mean is all the I4s hp is available for use all the time. The V6 is the same. As soon as you need the power - it's available. There is no hesitation while you wait for the VCM to deactivate. It happens in about a tenth of a second.
With the 4-cylinder, you get better fuel economy, sufficient power, and an engine proven over many years.
That sentence is all true, I just don't follow the logic of the "hp availability" reasoning.
22/32 (VCM,AT)
19/28 (non-VCM,MT)
...appreciate your commentary. Freeway fuel number with my current 6M coupe are world class.
...2008 6M with the fuel economy potential inherent with VCM would have piqued my interest big time.
It will all work out. The diesels are coming and my little VW Rabbit diesel pickup may finally stand relieved (Navyspeak).
...again, enjoy your thoughtful posts, mx...
best, ez.
Ten years ago, I-4 was more than sufficient for a leadfooted driver like me. 181K miles later, it still is. So, V6 is more about "toppings".
But when you say I-3 mode or V4 mode, you can't really compare based on peak power. When you have all six cylinders working (in any car), you use a small fraction of power available. There is virtually no difference between a high powered and low powered engine under most conditions. Only during brisk acceleration the V6 power would come into play. And at that time, you would have all that power.
That would be a reason why a Corvette could get beat by a Corolla if both were left in top gear under cruising conditions. So, instead of keeping the pumping losses going, VCM allows improvement in efficiency, hence better fuel economy. When you need more power, you just drive like you normally would, and it will be there.
I hope to test this out over a longer distance sometime, and will surely post pictures (if I don't forget my camera like I did yesterday).
I think with VCM, the Accord V6 could get similar real mileage without much effort.
'Course I didn't like the '03 restyle initially either!
You wrote "IMHO there are simply too many buttons too close together in the center of the dash."
I did a count a few weeks ago. There are about three more buttons in the '08 Nav model than in my '04 Nav model. Not even worth discussing, except that a couple of reviewers made a comment similar to yours.
....logged 39.2 twice in my 6M coupe (yeah, I was working at it: 2150 rpm 6th gear OD, no a/c, c/c, flat [non-permissible content removed] desert......)
I wonder why no VCM for the 6M!
best, ez
My guess is marketing. Honda wanted a trim in the lineup that didn't compromise much for performance. That is why they not only tuned the engine aggressively (90% of peak torque on this relatively high rpm engine arrives early at 2000 rpm and stays above it rest of the way). And geared it short, even shorter than the 3.0/6MT (but that may be also to compensate for larger wheels, now 235 mm wide with 18-inch rims).
VCM version (mated to auto) are less aggressively tuned in low-mid range. More like a 3.2 in fact, under 3500 rpm.
I know, Nissan and Infiniti are high performance cars/SUVs/ trucks. I just dont like that Fx's look.
I am new to the board but not new to Honda, I just made a deal with a local honda dealer to trade in my 2003 Accord LX sedan with automatic for a 2008 Accord LX-S coupe in San Marino red with black interior and a stick.... I am so excited -- it will be the sportiest looking car I have ever owned...
I am wondering though-- any idea what a rear wing spoiler would look like on a coupe ? I haven't seen any pictures of them with a spoiler - nor have I seen any coupes in person-but I digress.
I hope its built in Ohio-- sounds like it would be better built than in Japan based on previous posts here- plus I'll get it quicker -- sometime in November estimated...
Here are some pictures:
http://www.collegehillshonda.com/storeart/8thgenacccoupe/08coupefull.jpg
http://www.collegehillshonda.com/storeart/8thgenacccoupe/wingspoiler.jpg
Do you mind telling us the trade-in amount the dealer gave you for your '03 Accord compared with its present blue book value? Thanks.
link title
Was pretty impressed. Found the driver's seat more comfortable than the 2007, although not sure if it was the cloth as opposed to leather. Ride was much improved over 2007; this had been my biggest gripe with the last generation. Tire noise still not quite as suppressed as the Camry/Avalon, but reasonable. Certainly better than last gen and a reasonable trade off considering the handling, stopping and overall quality of the car.
Never did detect the VCM in action, although we didn't ride long enough to get to a stretch where we were cruising. Engine was very smooth with plenty of acceleration.
:confuse: Overall very favorable impression. The only fly in the ointment was the passenger seat. My wife has long legs and a problematic back. The seat seemed to be pretty low. She didn't complain much, but didn't seem completely comfortable. Considering we keep our cars for ten years or more, this is an important consideration. This was the deal killer with the Azeera which was otherwise a very nice copy of our 2004 Avalon. The passenger seat in the new Accord had only manual adjustments with a handle under the front to adjust back and forth and a handle for tilting the back, but no other adjustment.
I see from the Honda website that the EX-LV6 has "Passenger's Seat with 4-Way Power Adjustment." Does that include a height control?
Thanks.
I had to wait for a while too, and more people came in and they had to wait.
Once i got it out!!! Man it was nice!
Then i got it out to on the Interstate, and I flooed it to merge, I hit 90!!!
IT WAS DA BOMB!!! I test drover the Altima and that was nice too!!!
Man oh man!!!
They aren't moving on the price so I'll probably wont get it!!
I rather get a pick up truck!! Stick price was like $28,700.
Viet- the Kelly Blue Book value on my trade in good condition is around 10,700.00. The first Honda dealer that I visited (where I bought my current Accord) offered me $ 11500.00 if I took a silver or black coupe they had already ordered that was coming in...
They tried like heck to get me to buy one of those- and even offered me $ 12,200 if I bought another sedan instead of a coupe.
I told them I didn't want any of those-and said I had been in talks with another dealer who was willing to order what I wanted (being an LX-S coupe in San Marino Red), and I asked that they call me to let me know whether I could order it from them - or if I have to go to the other dealer. The result ? They never called me back -
Needless to say - I was quite aggravated and dissapointed that even though I purchased my current Honda from this dealer- they were unwilling to give me what I wanted- and so willingly lost me as a customer.
The dealer where I ultimately ordered/purchased the car- gave me $ 10,200 for my trade- and guaranteed that trade allowance when the new car arrives - something the first dealer wouldn't do. In a nutshell-- certainly not as good of a deal as the first dealer- but getting what I wanted--- Priceless
It's tough to me to resist buying the Accord '08 because right now I drive an Accord V6 EX '03 200HP at 57K miles and my son drives the Accord hybrid 255HP, the best car I bought.