I think there are very few "gearheads" left as that generation seems to be incredibly apathetic on the whole (as we try to plan youth activities and community volunteer groups, we are learning this). More and more, they aren't interested in getting a license at all, content to be chauffeured around. When they do look at cars, they are more interested in features more than the vehicle itself. The hood might as well be taped shut. Let's review...Ford takes a relatively cool car in Europe, brings over all of the body styles, has 2 or 3 "super sport" editions, and its a back marker more/less. Ford spins the design, drops the useful body-styles, drops the horsepower, and makes it heavier, but wait, adds this $400 gizmo to talk to your iPod, and whabam, can't make enough of them.
The Harrisburg paper recently ran the results of a national survey of teenagers that asked them what car they would like to own. One of the top five choices was the Accord, along with the Civic.
I have skimmed over some of what has been posted. All I want to ask is- WHERE ARE THE supposedly BIG 3 right now in the wake of the fuel price crisis???
Hmm, like the Mariner/Escape, the Aura, Malibu, Tahoe currently on the market?
I was reading an article the other day about the top 14 hybrid vehicles. None of the BIG 3 were even in the mix. Toyota/ Honda basically dominate the market.
Actually, Honda only makes 1 hybrid currently, (the Civic) and if they are "dominating" with that, more power to them. Toyota has the Prius, Camry, and a crossover.
With all of the strain on the Big 3 - why havent they learned to take advantage of the opportunity that exists??? Domestic ar manufacturers seem to be in the dark ages creating V12's and V8's like gas still costs 1.25/gallon.
Hmm so far I think your article is from about the same time frame. The General is using cylinder deactivation (like Honda, and if you want to hang out in the dark ages, the 4/6/8 Cadillac).
In an article on Ward's Dealer Business- The Product manager of GM's new Pontiac G* stated " The G8 is the flagship of our lineup". Are you kidding me???? LOL
Wow, a world class smooth powerful sport sedan, yeah that just sucks, you are right send them home.
The Big 3 will not exist by 2010 if they do not get their strategy in place for the average consumer!
Hmm like the average consumer failing to realize the time frame for payback on a hybrid drivetrain? That the Prius gets similar highway mileage to the much cheaper Corolla? Did you buy a hybrid yet? What kind did you get? Are you worried it will only last 2 years and will be in the market again in 2010?
I agree with you completely. Like Forbes magazine recently pointed out in an article that was posted on Yahoo, the price difference payback for a hybrid for most consumers is 100K miles. For my new business driver, I went the low tech route. I bought an 08 Saturn Aura XE with the 3.5 12 valve VVT engine. At 219HP, it won't win any drag races with the current crop of Japanese high tech V6s, but, it'll smoke a V6 Honda Accord on fuel economy to the tune of 3 - 4 MPG highway if I can believe what I read in these forums. In addition, it cost me about $7 - $8K less than a comparably equipped Accord or Camry, based on my local market shopping experience. The Saturn dealer here even smoked Hyundai's best local deal by $2K. I've owned several Hondas, 2 Accords with 4 cyclinder engines/ manual trannys and 1 Civic with an automatic. None of the Hondas got close to the highway mileage I'm getting with this Saturn on the hilly interstates I travel. Buying a hybrid here is an exercise in futility - there is no large urban area to commute around in, and, too many hills to climb. For buzzing up and down I-79, it's hard to beat a big slow turning thifty GM V6 (2100 RPM @ 75 MPH) that keeps delivering 30-31 MPG in the 6K miles I've put on her so far. The build quality appears to be every bit as good as a Japanese/Korean Midsizer. The details: For $21.5K (which includes tax and title) out the door and 0% GMAC financing, I got the XE V6 automatic with the optional power seat w/lumbar , fancier floormats, and the extra cost black metallic paint. Standard equipment includes trip computer, DSC, ABS, traction control, 4 wheel disc brakes, auto headlamps, cruise, tilt wheel, On Star, AM-FM - XM CD radio, tire pressure monitors (with actual psi readings on the trip computer), security system, etc. All this is why I bought another GM car after a 25 year hiatus.
Subtracting the teenage gearheads who follow the industry, I would say that about the only car on that list that most teenagers would find to be "cool" is the Mustang. The Camaro isn't even out yet, and the Dodge Challenger is so rare that I have yet to see one even at the local Dodge dealer.
Even among REGULAR teens, my list works. While the Camaro and the Challenger may be among the lower end because of their sparseness in the dealership and on the road, there has been enough coverage on TV of these things to have a following among non-"gearheads."
Most of them probably don't even know what a Saturn Sky, Pontiac G8 and Cadillac CTS-V are - and they wouldn't care once they did know. More than you think. Perhaps some people don't know what the V model is, you would definitely be surprised at how many know what the CTS is...and desire it.
Sorry, but even a fair number of the teenage gearheads just aren't into V-8s anymore.
Did you notice the Solstice and Sky and Cobalt SS on the list?
The Corvette is rapidly gaining an image as the vehicle of choice for pot-bellied 50-somethings who wear far too much gold jewelry. They buy a Corvette as a way to recapture at least a whiff of youth.
Not among teenagers who know cars, because it's one of the best sports cars built.
I think you underestimate just how damaged the images of most American brands are out in the real world.
I am the LAST person to defend the Big3, but you may overestimate that damage. Modern Big3 vehicles are on people's desireable lists.
The Harrisburg paper recently ran the results of a national survey of teenagers that asked them what car they would like to own. One of the top five choices was the Accord, along with the Civic.
Like to own and "cool" are two different lists. You asked for "Cool" cars.
Good selection...The Motorcity bunch applauds your selection...
Stamp out the "buzzy fours"..
Japan would be in bad shape if it wasn't for the Yanks jumping ship to buy their products and then complaining about how bad things are in the USA..Our educational system run by pin-headed liberals has been able to blame America for the world's ills and our younger generation is digesting the entire manifesto...
Would that be the same educational system which turned out a generation of middle managers who wrongly decided that Americans would buy whatever crud was shoveled out the factory door? Thought so.
lilengineerboy: I think there are very few "gearheads" left as that generation seems to be incredibly apathetic on the whole (as we try to plan youth activities and community volunteer groups, we are learning this). More and more, they aren't interested in getting a license at all, content to be chauffeured around.
Very true...it's linked to the proliferation of video games (which encourage children to sit indoors in front of the television set) and the overhyped fear of child kidnappings, which means that parents keep children on a very short leash.
It used to be that, during nice weather, parents sent children outside to get them out of the way for most of the day.
hudsonthedog: Even among REGULAR teens, my list works. While the Camaro and the Challenger may be among the lower end because of their sparseness in the dealership and on the road, there has been enough coverage on TV of these things to have a following among non-"gearheads."
I have to disagree...especially among the more upscale teenagers. The 300 and the Charger have a reputation as gas guzzlers, and the farther up the income scale you go, the "greener" teens become.
Cadillac has the image of either an "old man's car," or a brand for over-the-top excess (Escalade). Neither of which appeals to most teens.
Unfair? Sure...but it takes time and a string of extremely successful vehicles to change an image, and, realistically, from a sales and image standpoint, the only really "new" Cadillacs (which excludes the DTS, as it is aimed at Cadillac's more traditional customer base) that have been successful are the Escalade and the CTS.
The SRX, STS and XLR are either also-rans or outright duds.
hudsonthedog: Did you notice the Solstice and Sky and Cobalt SS on the list?
Yes, and any teen gearhead worth his or her salt should know that, once you get past the sexy bodywork, the Solstice and Sky have been uinversally panned for...just about everything. A Mazda Miata is a MUCH better all-around sports car.
The original Cobalt SS disappeared - apparently GM couldn't sell them - and is back in watered-down form.
hudsonthedog: Not among teenagers who know cars, because it's one of the best sports cars built.
It certainly is. But they see who drives it, and let's just say that they aren't "cool" by any stretch of imagination (well, maybe to the ladies at the retirement village).
The same thing, by the way, is slowly happening to Porsche.
hudsonthedog: Like to own and "cool" are two different lists. You asked for "Cool" cars.
Among teenagers, "cool" and "would like to own" are the same thing. They haven't been out in the real world enough to discover that what is "cool" is different from "what I would like to own," because, as we get older, the latter is increasingly driven by more mundane factors (affordability, room for the kids, etc.)
For them, a cool car is one that they would like to own, and, like it or not, among teens, the Accord is cooler than any comparable product put out by the Big Three. The coupe holds up the rest of the line in the image department...although Honda better stop super-sizing the Accord.
The original Cobalt SS disappeared - apparently GM couldn't sell them - and is back in watered-down form.
Naah, the supercharger wouldn't pass 2008 emissions, so the SS skipped a year and returned with a modified turbo 2.0 from the Solstice and a nice horsepower boost.
Funniest effort is the Lexus LS460h which makes about 20 MPG Highway as a hybrid!!! Geeze, I'd hate to see what the ICE LS460 makes! My new Cadillac DTS Performance which also has a 4.6 litre V-8 gets 24 MPG HWY. My 1988 Buick Park Avenue gets 29 MPG HWY.
If I were to experiment with a hybrid, I'd like to get a Honda Insight. However, used examples are probably frightfully expensive with the fuel panic.
I have to disagree...especially among the more upscale teenagers. The 300 and the Charger have a reputation as gas guzzlers,
True, but they're extremely popular around here. A young girl who's a coworker of mine just bought a red Charger Hemi. She always talks about it in high regard regardless of the fuel prices. She even has a picture of herself and her boyfriend standing next to it on her desk.
...and the farther up the income scale you go, the "greener" teens become.
Yeah, a bunch of spoiled little eco-weenie hypocrites who had everything handed to them and have to take up some silly cause to give meaning to their empty pampered lives. I see these kinds all around the more "trendy" neighborhoods. I have no respect for them. I admire the kid who makes his way out of the ghetto and into a decent life more than those trust-fund rejects.
Cadillac has the image of either an "old man's car," or a brand for over-the-top excess (Escalade). Neither of which appeals to most teens.
Well, the young guys up the block certainly admire my new Cadillac DTS Performance. Heck, I always aspired to own a Cadillac and have fortunately been able to do it several times over.
The SRX, STS and XLR are either also-rans or outright duds.
SRX? Can't understand it. The SRX is really nice for what it is. It's certainly a lot more attractive than what passes for luxury cross-overs from other manufacturers.
STS? Too darn expensive in its V-8 form. To equip a V-8 STS up to the level of my DTS, I'd have spent over $70K!
XLR? Don't know what to make of it. Yeah, I agree it's a sales dud, but that doesn't make it a bad car.
...any teen gearhead worth his or her salt should know that, once you get past the sexy bodywork, the Solstice and Sky have been uinversally panned for...just about everything. A Mazda Miata is a MUCH better all-around sports car.
Most teens around here universally pan the Miata as a gay person's car.
Good Luck on your Smart Car!!! Roger Penske will give you a hug..Another scam on the American people..It's a high priced moped..
You are a cynic, motorcity6 - but you happen to be right on most counts! I have been involved in the distribution of the Smart ForTwo for the past couple of years, before Roger Penske bought them all up. The profits being made on those little bedpans was eggregious to say the least! Some people paid north of $30,000 for the gray-market version before the current version with the motorcycle engine came out. You can never drive your way out of that kind of money, I don't care who you are. The car won't last that long.
The regular LS460 does better on the highway (24 versus 22), but the LS600hL is better in the city (20 versus 16); the efficiency improvements from the hybrid system are offset by the additional curb weight at cruising speeds .
Used Insights go for about the same price as they did five years ago, but today they're five years older, have more miles, and are a lot harder to pry out of people's hands.
Used hybrids are nigh onto impossible to pick up these days, as you say. Used to see a handful of hybrids go through the auction in Vegas every week. There hasn't been one in months.
Our educational system run by pin-headed liberals has been able to blame America for the world's ills and our younger generation is digesting the entire manifesto...
LOL! My 6 year old who's in kindergarten lectures me every time I throw a beer bottle away, that I'm directly responsible for killing polar bears. She runs around the house turning lights off claiming she's saving the polar bears. I can hardly read the paper anymore;) What the heck are they teaching her. My tax dollars at work I guess.
To heck with the polar bears! They're one of the most dangerous animals on the face of the earth! They'll eat you as soon as look at you!
Shoot, maybe you should home school her. I remember seeing a modern history text book. It had about 10 pages on the feminist movement and George Washington warranted only about a page. What's wrong with this picture?
Shoot, maybe you should home school her. I remember seeing a modern history text book. It had about 10 pages on the feminist movement and George Washington warranted only about a page. What's wrong with this picture?
The feminist movement was around longer than George Washington :shades:
LOL! No thanks. I don't think I have the patience for that and my wife gets paid way to much to stay home to home school the kids.
Back to cars... Now that gas is getting close to the point where I'm considering a small car to drive around town and save the Suburban for hauling extra people and towing our toys. I'd like a small, quality sporty and efficient car that would be fun to drive around town.
The domestics have nothing that interests me. The Cobalt SS while quick, isn't (IMO) good looking or desirable. I would like a more upscale car like a VW GTI or what I'm really considering is a Mini Cooper S. It's quick, has outstanding handling, and will realistically get over 30mpg. Plus it has high resale value. Yeah, it's quirky in some ways, but I like quirky and the fact that you don't see them everyday.
Maybe with gas prices staying where they are people will start considering more upscale small cars, something that Americans traditionally don't value. Then the domestics will have a shot at making a profit on small cars.
VW also has quite a presence there. The VW Fox was built there and exported to the U.S.
I dunno. I kind of like the Cobalt coupe and would consider one if things got bad enough. I'd still keep my Cadillacs but only use them on special occassions. My purchase of anything is contingent on the health of my 1988 Buick Park Avenue that still seems to have a lot of life left in it despite its diminishing cosmetic appearance. If I were crazy enough, I could restore it but I'd be better off finding something else for the same cost.
Imported cars sold under domestic name-plates are a good alternative. You can have a high quality "little car" and still use the services of a domestic dealership, rather than the often intolerable foreign brand-name dealerships. Arrogance and condescension come to mind...
Under today's economic cloud, YES, I am a cynic!!!! Boone Pickens sees $150/barrel this year-it's already around $140..The world is short 2,000,000 barrels a day, so why would the price tumble??? US oil production peaked in 1970 and the world production peaked in 2006..Thanks to the DONKEY party along with their ENVIRO cash cows and their ENVIRO lawyers have placed this counrty on the road to 18th century standards.. Enough venom...
My granddaughter of 18 yrs drives a new Jeep Liberty, so I guess she avoided the public school garbage..private schooled..
Drive "55" is coming back---libs in full spectrum..
Roger Penske had a short histroy with Detroit Diesel ownership, I got clipped for a few grand during his attempt to run this operation..On the positive side his career is very interesting and has advanced the motoring world.
Having lived the first 35yrs of my life in Indiana, the 500 mile race was always a big deal.. I attended the first race after WWII and compared to what we will see this Sunday shows how badly our economic power has diminished..We are stuck with a couple chassis builders and [non-permissible content removed] engines..Granted the first post-war race was run mostly by pre-war setups it was still a great variety and it advanced to all types of different chassises and engines..and presto it's all gone..
Maybe Toy and Honda will take over and build tanks, artillery, and needed war items to protect our backsides after Detroit goes down the drain....
The day has started off well with the Stock Market sinking for there is nothing on the horizion to warrant a bull run..Since I play the short side, bring on 200/barrel oil..then after 30 days back to 60/barrel..
'm still trying to figure out how a Jeep Liberty somehow relates to private schools.
Seriously.. Me too what does that even mean?
Not to mention the Jeep liberty is probably the worst jeep ever built, excluding the Patriot and Compass since those are really Dodge Calibers, my 1990 Jeep Cherokee did everything the Liberty does better and got better gas mileage too. I drove a V6 Liberty for most of last Feb and march. That Liberty was slower then my old Jeep Cherokee with the low output 4.0 inline six. The liberty was louder even with my 30x9.50 BFG Long Trails the Cherokee was quieter. The Liberty got worse gas mileage as I could get high 20s highway in my Cherokee even with the big tires.
My brother bought a Jeep Cherokee Sport due to it's lack of IRS instead of the Liberty that debuted at the time. My brother actually takes his SUV offroad and says the solid axle is better for off-road conditions versus independent rear suspension.
My private school statement inflamed a few, but the school had no agenda pushing the "Global Warming/Climate Change", whereas our public schools tend to push the Social Engineering scenerio of liberal bile..
Are you sick of gas prices?????? Your liberal politicans spent last week grilling the oil guys and tried to hang the blame on them, knowing full well that the oil companies haven't done anything wrong...The leftists want to nationalize our oil industry, for they are jealous of Venezuela, Russia, Mexico, and the Arab states..The Democrats never met a dictator that they didn't adore !!!!!! Can you imagine National Health Care and National Oil rationing==means no health care and $8.00 gallon gas..
I have no idea what kind of gas mileage the Jeep Liberty achieves, but my daughter owns a Jeep Cherokee and a Jeep Wrangler, Columbia Edition 4x4. 2004s I think..Best of my knowledge 16mpgs covers both cars..It's their money, the Wrangler is fun though, but if they want to fritter their money away I stay out of their way..We don't live a "Green" life...period...
It's 90 degrees today, sun is blazing, and yes, the Global warming is in play for us today..I'll bet it would only be 85 if the sun wasn't out..Maybe somebody should tell Al Gore the sun is the problem, but then again he is busy selling "Carbon Credits" while cruising around in his new jet plane..
The whole ecomony is going to take a big hit over oil and CASH will rule..repossessions of homes, boats, cars, trucks will be the order of the day, remember it's election year and the party after the White House slot wants the worst possible business climate..
The bleeding of the BIG 3 will be fatal and ownership could be transferred to China, Russia or the Arab states..
Cheer up!!! for if you leased a gas guzzler the Auto company will take the hit. I think the Americans are learning that it is wise to obtain lots of goodies on credit, and then walk away ,claiming you were duped. Our congress is very sensitive to helping those folks who couldn't keep up the "Joneses".
The Nascar event tomorrow, Cola 600 will be interesting to see if the Toyota driven by Kyle Busch can stay together with the internal improvements beneath Nascar's nose/not found as yet, whereas he is able to outdistance himself from the field. The sprint races run last weekend Kyle fried the engine..This is a factory car under the Gibbs racing banner..Micheal Waltrip got caught the first time last year during qualification runs with a little extra hype in the intake manifold..
The [non-permissible content removed] getting beat by a lowly Dodge doesn't set too well with them..after all Chrysler is probably worth 10 Billion and Toyota is worth 370 billion..AHso, heads roll!!! if the island folks lose.....................
Have a nice Memorial Weekend--charcoal grills leave a big footprint!!!! Maybe BIG Brother is watching you..
The [non-permissible content removed] getting beat by a lowly Dodge doesn't set too well with them..after all Chrysler is probably worth 10 Billion and Toyota is worth 370 billion..AHso, heads roll!!! if the island folks lose.....................
Yep that may be Dodge's last victory before the war closes their doors. They will be the first major casualty. Life's a [non-permissible content removed].
Kind of Ironic. We are downsizing as the rest of the World is going to bigger cars. Is our knee jerk reaction going to make any difference?
Brazilian car buyers: These new buyers -- many from the emerging middle-class -- are propelling sales of roomier luxury vehicles once considered too expensive for the average Brazilian.
"Today you can buy a larger car for the same monthly payment as a compact two or three years ago," Leite said.
Even the recent surge in oil prices is unlikely to put the brakes on Brazil's auto market. Almost 90 percent of all new cars sold in the country are equipped with flex-fuel engines, which run on either gasoline or cane-based ethanol.
Some automakers, like Volkswagen, are even phasing out the production of gasoline-only cars in Brazil, betting that the ethanol craze is here to stay.
"If you don't have flex cars, then you will have a very difficult time selling anything," said salesman Pace.
How many years will it take to plant the whole rain forest into sugar cane?
Those were were trying to keep up with the Joneses didn't realize the Jones were bankrupt too! Heck, if anything, I try to downplay what I have. My house is modest but clean. My better cars are locked-up in the garage and taken out only occasionally. My neighbors see me puttering around in my old hoopty the majority of the time. I don't dress up or wear flashy clothes. I wear a cheap watch I bought at Caldor 15 years ago that keeps perfect time.
Per NASCAR, I pretty much lost interest when Dale Earnhardt Sr. died. NASCAR is more about the driver than the cars they drive these days. Back in the day, NASCAR was about both car and driver. I wish I could've seen the mighty Hudson Hornets or the dynamic Oldsmobile 88s on the track.
Today's NASCAR racers are pretty much the same underneath. About the only thing on them that might be Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford, or Toyota might be the engine block. I wonder if Kyle Busch's Japanese masters will make him commit hari-kari if he loses?
Today's NASCAR racers are pretty much the same underneath.
Stock car races back in the 1950s and 60s were fun. Today it is blah to me. I cannot tell one brand from another out there. I kind of lost interest when the government got involved and slapped GM with an anti-trust suit because no one else could compete. I wonder if they will do the same when Toyota buys all the races with their deep pockets.
An all-Toyota race?!?!? YUCK!!! I think I'd rather watch a bunch of school buses circle the track in low gear. :sick:
Racing itself seems a little gauche in these days of psychopathic pump prices. It kind of makes me wince at all the fuel being wasted by a bunch of guys circling a track be it NASCAR or the Indy 500. Even worse is the many gallons of fuel instantly devoured by drag racers going only a 1/4 mile down a strip.
If things are really that bad with the oil situation, shouldn't all racing be instantly suspended? I know they suspended the Indy 500 race during WWII.
It's not like they use good ol 87 octane in the things....the fuel most racers burn is well above even the 93 octane stuff we use. Some of it isn't even petrol-based: some are alcohol-fuleled, or they use a nitromethane mix. Might even be a mix of trichloronitromethane and the pseudo-halogenic compound Cyanogen for all we know. :shades:
Heck, NASCAR took this long to switch OFF of leaded fuel!! Up until this year, they were still using high-octane leaded fuel....now they're using Sunoco-provided high-octane (much higher than 93) unleaded, finally.
Anyway, while there's an impact, it's not as much as one might initially thing since we can't just go burning the stuff in our street machines. Though given some of the more exotic fuels they use, it may actually be worthwhile to have MORE racing going on as far as researching and testing alternatives...bwa ha ha.
Someone posted in the Ethanol threads that NASCAR is using ethanol. I cannot find anything of the sort. GM wants them to switch to ethanol so they look green. I would just as soon they use up our fossil fuel as our food.
Had the oil changed in my friend's Camary and it was my first trip into a Toyota dealership---Customer service lounge was packed but I passed the time away from the showroom looking at the SUVs from the island country.
What I didn't realize is that the 4-Runner, Highlander, RV4, and the FJ Cruiser are 100% Japanese Content...MADE IN JAPAN...
No problem, since I don't forsee any of these oriental items in my garage.
Thanks for the comments on the Hybrid racing, for at least we know which side of the aisle you support..
By the way, the oil change went off w/o a glitch...It's still the same buzzy motor. and deserves to undergo it's annual oil change. 3500mi/yr. It cost me $950 to have it hauled in an enclosed auto transport a yr. ago from Carmel, Ind..Who said, Camarys are cheap to own!!!!
The only Camary I would own is the V-6, SE model w/sunroof....period..
What I didn't realize is that the 4-Runner, Highlander, RV4, and the FJ Cruiser are 100% Japanese Content...MADE IN JAPAN...
The only reason I considered and bought the Sequoia, because it is assembled in Indiana with somewhere over 65% USA made content. The Mercedes SUV I was looking at is built down South somewhere.
You know Formula 1 is going to start implementing hybrid tech next year don't you? Some teams will go with a hybrid electric drive and some will go with a mechanical flywheel type drive.
After the Democracts win the White House they will mandate a stop to all Motor Sports except Hybrid cars...
An all-hybrid demolition derby might be interesting.
I thought that's what Nascar was. A bunch of plastic bodies that are all the same with different stickers crashing into each other promoting beer and cable networks.
Comments
When they do look at cars, they are more interested in features more than the vehicle itself. The hood might as well be taped shut. Let's review...Ford takes a relatively cool car in Europe, brings over all of the body styles, has 2 or 3 "super sport" editions, and its a back marker more/less. Ford spins the design, drops the useful body-styles, drops the horsepower, and makes it heavier, but wait, adds this $400 gizmo to talk to your iPod, and whabam, can't make enough of them.
The Harrisburg paper recently ran the results of a national survey of teenagers that asked them what car they would like to own. One of the top five choices was the Accord, along with the Civic.
IIRC, that was quite a while ago.
Hmm, like the Mariner/Escape, the Aura, Malibu, Tahoe currently on the market?
I was reading an article the other day about the top 14 hybrid vehicles. None of the BIG 3 were even in the mix. Toyota/ Honda basically dominate the market.
Actually, Honda only makes 1 hybrid currently, (the Civic) and if they are "dominating" with that, more power to them. Toyota has the Prius, Camry, and a crossover.
With all of the strain on the Big 3 - why havent they learned to take advantage of the opportunity that exists??? Domestic ar manufacturers seem to be in the dark ages creating V12's and V8's like gas still costs 1.25/gallon.
Hmm so far I think your article is from about the same time frame. The General is using cylinder deactivation (like Honda, and if you want to hang out in the dark ages, the 4/6/8 Cadillac).
In an article on Ward's Dealer Business- The Product manager of GM's new Pontiac G* stated " The G8 is the flagship of our lineup". Are you kidding me???? LOL
Wow, a world class smooth powerful sport sedan, yeah that just sucks, you are right send them home.
The Big 3 will not exist by 2010 if they do not get their strategy in place for the average consumer!
Hmm like the average consumer failing to realize the time frame for payback on a hybrid drivetrain? That the Prius gets similar highway mileage to the much cheaper Corolla? Did you buy a hybrid yet? What kind did you get? Are you worried it will only last 2 years and will be in the market again in 2010?
Regards:
Oldengineer
Even among REGULAR teens, my list works. While the Camaro and the Challenger may be among the lower end because of their sparseness in the dealership and on the road, there has been enough coverage on TV of these things to have a following among non-"gearheads."
Most of them probably don't even know what a Saturn Sky, Pontiac G8 and Cadillac CTS-V are - and they wouldn't care once they did know.
More than you think. Perhaps some people don't know what the V model is, you would definitely be surprised at how many know what the CTS is...and desire it.
Sorry, but even a fair number of the teenage gearheads just aren't into V-8s anymore.
Did you notice the Solstice and Sky and Cobalt SS on the list?
The Corvette is rapidly gaining an image as the vehicle of choice for pot-bellied 50-somethings who wear far too much gold jewelry. They buy a Corvette as a way to recapture at least a whiff of youth.
Not among teenagers who know cars, because it's one of the best sports cars built.
I think you underestimate just how damaged the images of most American brands are out in the real world.
I am the LAST person to defend the Big3, but you may overestimate that damage. Modern Big3 vehicles are on people's desireable lists.
The Harrisburg paper recently ran the results of a national survey of teenagers that asked them what car they would like to own. One of the top five choices was the Accord, along with the Civic.
Like to own and "cool" are two different lists. You asked for "Cool" cars.
Uhh, name me one teenager who can afford a 'Vette??
Stamp out the "buzzy fours"..
Japan would be in bad shape if it wasn't for the Yanks jumping ship to buy their products and then complaining about how bad things are in the USA..Our educational system run by pin-headed liberals has been able to blame America for the world's ills and our younger generation is digesting the entire manifesto...
Very true...it's linked to the proliferation of video games (which encourage children to sit indoors in front of the television set) and the overhyped fear of child kidnappings, which means that parents keep children on a very short leash.
It used to be that, during nice weather, parents sent children outside to get them out of the way for most of the day.
lilengineerboy: IIRC, that was quite a while ago.
It was published within the last year.
I have to disagree...especially among the more upscale teenagers. The 300 and the Charger have a reputation as gas guzzlers, and the farther up the income scale you go, the "greener" teens become.
Cadillac has the image of either an "old man's car," or a brand for over-the-top excess (Escalade). Neither of which appeals to most teens.
Unfair? Sure...but it takes time and a string of extremely successful vehicles to change an image, and, realistically, from a sales and image standpoint, the only really "new" Cadillacs (which excludes the DTS, as it is aimed at Cadillac's more traditional customer base) that have been successful are the Escalade and the CTS.
The SRX, STS and XLR are either also-rans or outright duds.
hudsonthedog: Did you notice the Solstice and Sky and Cobalt SS on the list?
Yes, and any teen gearhead worth his or her salt should know that, once you get past the sexy bodywork, the Solstice and Sky have been uinversally panned for...just about everything. A Mazda Miata is a MUCH better all-around sports car.
The original Cobalt SS disappeared - apparently GM couldn't sell them - and is back in watered-down form.
hudsonthedog: Not among teenagers who know cars, because it's one of the best sports cars built.
It certainly is. But they see who drives it, and let's just say that they aren't "cool" by any stretch of imagination (well, maybe to the ladies at the retirement village).
The same thing, by the way, is slowly happening to Porsche.
hudsonthedog: Like to own and "cool" are two different lists. You asked for "Cool" cars.
Among teenagers, "cool" and "would like to own" are the same thing. They haven't been out in the real world enough to discover that what is "cool" is different from "what I would like to own," because, as we get older, the latter is increasingly driven by more mundane factors (affordability, room for the kids, etc.)
For them, a cool car is one that they would like to own, and, like it or not, among teens, the Accord is cooler than any comparable product put out by the Big Three. The coupe holds up the rest of the line in the image department...although Honda better stop super-sizing the Accord.
Naah, the supercharger wouldn't pass 2008 emissions, so the SS skipped a year and returned with a modified turbo 2.0 from the Solstice and a nice horsepower boost.
If I were to experiment with a hybrid, I'd like to get a Honda Insight. However, used examples are probably frightfully expensive with the fuel panic.
True, but they're extremely popular around here. A young girl who's a coworker of mine just bought a red Charger Hemi. She always talks about it in high regard regardless of the fuel prices. She even has a picture of herself and her boyfriend standing next to it on her desk.
...and the farther up the income scale you go, the "greener" teens become.
Yeah, a bunch of spoiled little eco-weenie hypocrites who had everything handed to them and have to take up some silly cause to give meaning to their empty pampered lives. I see these kinds all around the more "trendy" neighborhoods. I have no respect for them. I admire the kid who makes his way out of the ghetto and into a decent life more than those trust-fund rejects.
Cadillac has the image of either an "old man's car," or a brand for over-the-top excess (Escalade). Neither of which appeals to most teens.
Well, the young guys up the block certainly admire my new Cadillac DTS Performance. Heck, I always aspired to own a Cadillac and have fortunately been able to do it several times over.
The SRX, STS and XLR are either also-rans or outright duds.
SRX? Can't understand it. The SRX is really nice for what it is. It's certainly a lot more attractive than what passes for luxury cross-overs from other manufacturers.
STS? Too darn expensive in its V-8 form. To equip a V-8 STS up to the level of my DTS, I'd have spent over $70K!
XLR? Don't know what to make of it. Yeah, I agree it's a sales dud, but that doesn't make it a bad car.
...any teen gearhead worth his or her salt should know that, once you get past the sexy bodywork, the Solstice and Sky have been uinversally panned for...just about everything. A Mazda Miata is a MUCH better all-around sports car.
Most teens around here universally pan the Miata as a gay person's car.
Yes, lemko - but you know you are a dying breed.....on both counts! :P
You are a cynic, motorcity6 - but you happen to be right on most counts! I have been involved in the distribution of the Smart ForTwo for the past couple of years, before Roger Penske bought them all up. The profits being made on those little bedpans was eggregious to say the least! Some people paid north of $30,000 for the gray-market version before the current version with the motorcycle engine came out. You can never drive your way out of that kind of money, I don't care who you are. The car won't last that long.
Keep on kicking motor, and keep us entertained!
Used Insights go for about the same price as they did five years ago, but today they're five years older, have more miles, and are a lot harder to pry out of people's hands.
I'd argue my points again, but it seems most have been argued for me.
LOL! My 6 year old who's in kindergarten lectures me every time I throw a beer bottle away, that I'm directly responsible for killing polar bears. She runs around the house turning lights off claiming she's saving the polar bears. I can hardly read the paper anymore;) What the heck are they teaching her. My tax dollars at work I guess.
Shoot, maybe you should home school her. I remember seeing a modern history text book. It had about 10 pages on the feminist movement and George Washington warranted only about a page. What's wrong with this picture?
The feminist movement was around longer than George Washington :shades:
So the author was either a woman or a whipped man? :P
LOL! No thanks. I don't think I have the patience for that and my wife gets paid way to much to stay home to home school the kids.
Back to cars... Now that gas is getting close to the point where I'm considering a small car to drive around town and save the Suburban for hauling extra people and towing our toys. I'd like a small, quality sporty and efficient car that would be fun to drive around town.
The domestics have nothing that interests me. The Cobalt SS while quick, isn't (IMO) good looking or desirable. I would like a more upscale car like a VW GTI or what I'm really considering is a Mini Cooper S. It's quick, has outstanding handling, and will realistically get over 30mpg. Plus it has high resale value. Yeah, it's quirky in some ways, but I like quirky and the fact that you don't see them everyday.
Maybe with gas prices staying where they are people will start considering more upscale small cars, something that Americans traditionally don't value. Then the domestics will have a shot at making a profit on small cars.
Thank you.
Brazil's car sales are off the charts, and Ford and GM are making money there.
Brazil's auto industry cruises as economy booms
Having an American auto industry means sending dividends home?
I dunno. I kind of like the Cobalt coupe and would consider one if things got bad enough. I'd still keep my Cadillacs but only use them on special occassions. My purchase of anything is contingent on the health of my 1988 Buick Park Avenue that still seems to have a lot of life left in it despite its diminishing cosmetic appearance. If I were crazy enough, I could restore it but I'd be better off finding something else for the same cost.
My granddaughter of 18 yrs drives a new Jeep Liberty, so I guess she avoided the public school garbage..private schooled..
Drive "55" is coming back---libs in full spectrum..
Roger Penske had a short histroy with Detroit Diesel ownership, I got clipped for a few grand during his attempt to run this operation..On the positive side his career is very interesting and has advanced the motoring world.
Having lived the first 35yrs of my life in Indiana, the 500 mile race was always a big deal.. I attended the first race after WWII and compared to what we will see this Sunday shows how badly our economic power has diminished..We are stuck with a couple chassis builders and [non-permissible content removed] engines..Granted the first post-war race was run mostly by pre-war setups it was still a great variety and it advanced to all types of different chassises and engines..and presto it's all gone..
Maybe Toy and Honda will take over and build tanks, artillery, and needed war items to protect our backsides after Detroit goes down the drain....
The day has started off well with the Stock Market sinking for there is nothing on the horizion to warrant a bull run..Since I play the short side, bring on 200/barrel oil..then after 30 days back to 60/barrel..
Buy Ford stock soon for a fin/share.
I'm still trying to figure out how a Jeep Liberty somehow relates to private schools.
Seriously.. Me too what does that even mean?
Not to mention the Jeep liberty is probably the worst jeep ever built, excluding the Patriot and Compass since those are really Dodge Calibers, my 1990 Jeep Cherokee did everything the Liberty does better and got better gas mileage too. I drove a V6 Liberty for most of last Feb and march. That Liberty was slower then my old Jeep Cherokee with the low output 4.0 inline six. The liberty was louder even with my 30x9.50 BFG Long Trails the Cherokee was quieter. The Liberty got worse gas mileage as I could get high 20s highway in my Cherokee even with the big tires.
Are you sick of gas prices?????? Your liberal politicans spent last week grilling the oil guys and tried to hang the blame on them, knowing full well that the oil companies haven't done anything wrong...The leftists want to nationalize our oil industry, for they are jealous of Venezuela, Russia, Mexico, and the Arab states..The Democrats never met a dictator that they didn't adore !!!!!! Can you imagine National Health Care and National Oil rationing==means no health care and $8.00 gallon gas..
I have no idea what kind of gas mileage the Jeep Liberty achieves, but my daughter owns a Jeep Cherokee and a Jeep Wrangler, Columbia Edition 4x4. 2004s I think..Best of my knowledge 16mpgs covers both cars..It's their money, the Wrangler is fun though, but if they want to fritter their money away I stay out of their way..We don't live a "Green" life...period...
It's 90 degrees today, sun is blazing, and yes, the Global warming is in play for us today..I'll bet it would only be 85 if the sun wasn't out..Maybe somebody should tell Al Gore the sun is the problem, but then again he is busy selling "Carbon Credits" while cruising around in his new jet plane..
The whole ecomony is going to take a big hit over oil and CASH will rule..repossessions of homes, boats, cars, trucks will be the order of the day, remember it's election year and the party after the White House slot wants the worst possible business climate..
The bleeding of the BIG 3 will be fatal and ownership could be transferred to China, Russia or the Arab states..
Cheer up!!! for if you leased a gas guzzler the Auto company will take the hit. I think the Americans are learning that it is wise to obtain lots of goodies on credit, and then walk away ,claiming you were duped. Our congress is very sensitive to helping those folks who couldn't keep up the "Joneses".
The Nascar event tomorrow, Cola 600 will be interesting to see if the Toyota driven by Kyle Busch can stay together with the internal improvements beneath Nascar's nose/not found as yet, whereas he is able to outdistance himself from the field. The sprint races run last weekend Kyle fried the engine..This is a factory car under the Gibbs racing banner..Micheal Waltrip got caught the first time last year during qualification runs with a little extra hype in the intake manifold..
The [non-permissible content removed] getting beat by a lowly Dodge doesn't set too well with them..after all Chrysler is probably worth 10 Billion and Toyota is worth 370 billion..AHso, heads roll!!! if the island folks lose.....................
Have a nice Memorial Weekend--charcoal grills leave a big footprint!!!! Maybe BIG Brother is watching you..
Yep that may be Dodge's last victory before the war closes their doors. They will be the first major casualty. Life's a [non-permissible content removed].
Brazilian car buyers:
These new buyers -- many from the emerging middle-class -- are propelling sales of roomier luxury vehicles once considered too expensive for the average Brazilian.
"Today you can buy a larger car for the same monthly payment as a compact two or three years ago," Leite said.
Even the recent surge in oil prices is unlikely to put the brakes on Brazil's auto market. Almost 90 percent of all new cars sold in the country are equipped with flex-fuel engines, which run on either gasoline or cane-based ethanol.
Some automakers, like Volkswagen, are even phasing out the production of gasoline-only cars in Brazil, betting that the ethanol craze is here to stay.
"If you don't have flex cars, then you will have a very difficult time selling anything," said salesman Pace.
How many years will it take to plant the whole rain forest into sugar cane?
Per NASCAR, I pretty much lost interest when Dale Earnhardt Sr. died. NASCAR is more about the driver than the cars they drive these days. Back in the day, NASCAR was about both car and driver. I wish I could've seen the mighty Hudson Hornets or the dynamic Oldsmobile 88s on the track.
Today's NASCAR racers are pretty much the same underneath. About the only thing on them that might be Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford, or Toyota might be the engine block. I wonder if Kyle Busch's Japanese masters will make him commit hari-kari if he loses?
Stock car races back in the 1950s and 60s were fun. Today it is blah to me. I cannot tell one brand from another out there. I kind of lost interest when the government got involved and slapped GM with an anti-trust suit because no one else could compete. I wonder if they will do the same when Toyota buys all the races with their deep pockets.
Racing itself seems a little gauche in these days of psychopathic pump prices. It kind of makes me wince at all the fuel being wasted by a bunch of guys circling a track be it NASCAR or the Indy 500. Even worse is the many gallons of fuel instantly devoured by drag racers going only a 1/4 mile down a strip.
If things are really that bad with the oil situation, shouldn't all racing be instantly suspended? I know they suspended the Indy 500 race during WWII.
Heck, NASCAR took this long to switch OFF of leaded fuel!! Up until this year, they were still using high-octane leaded fuel....now they're using Sunoco-provided high-octane (much higher than 93) unleaded, finally.
Anyway, while there's an impact, it's not as much as one might initially thing since we can't just go burning the stuff in our street machines. Though given some of the more exotic fuels they use, it may actually be worthwhile to have MORE racing going on as far as researching and testing alternatives...bwa ha ha.
Ethanol was used in the Honda engines-sole powerplant in the Indy 500..
Not too much American in the Indy 500---except the spectators..
After the Democracts win the White House they will mandate a stop to all Motor Sports except Hybrid cars...
An all-hybrid demolition derby might be interesting. :shades:
Won't that be fun watching 33 Prii trying to see who can get the best MPG for 500 miles :sick:
What I didn't realize is that the 4-Runner, Highlander, RV4, and the FJ Cruiser are 100% Japanese Content...MADE IN JAPAN...
No problem, since I don't forsee any of these oriental items in my garage.
Thanks for the comments on the Hybrid racing, for at least we know which side of the aisle you support..
By the way, the oil change went off w/o a glitch...It's still the same buzzy motor. and deserves to undergo it's annual oil change. 3500mi/yr. It cost me $950 to have it hauled in an enclosed auto transport a yr. ago from Carmel, Ind..Who said, Camarys are cheap to own!!!!
The only Camary I would own is the V-6, SE model w/sunroof....period..
The only reason I considered and bought the Sequoia, because it is assembled in Indiana with somewhere over 65% USA made content. The Mercedes SUV I was looking at is built down South somewhere.
http://www.autoblog.com/tag/f1+hybrid/
Of course since F1 does more then just turn left I guess you wouldn't consider it a real motorsport either.
An all-hybrid demolition derby might be interesting.
I thought that's what Nascar was. A bunch of plastic bodies that are all the same with different stickers crashing into each other promoting beer and cable networks.