If the BIG 3 go out of business, maybe that's all our opportunities to start a new American made and built car company that actually makes good product for good prices for good people.
Maybe you, I, and some of the others from this forum could start the Edmunds Forum Car company. With the Big 3 out of the way, there is room for new companies.
Heck, maybe a sheet metal manufacturer could diversify, or maybe some other USA company lookingi to diversify could get into the business. Or, maybe China will keep Japan in check? How about a Mexican designed vehicle?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
For even more evidence of how fast things are changing, consider that the best-selling vehicle (not just car) in the U.S. for May was...the Honda Civic. It blew past not only the F-150 and Silverado, but also the Camry and Accord.
Has the best-selling U.S. vehicle ever been a subcompact? I remember that in the early 1980s the Escort and Chevette periodically claimed the number-one spot for cars, but they were still outsold by the F-150.
Curious. I just saw a report with different results but the same bad news for Ford and the like. It had the Corolla at the top followed by Camry and Accord. Can't find a link that doesn't require registration.
The big three will have to turn on a dime with this news. Looks like GM already got the message as they are closing 4 truck plants and trying to decide what to do about Hummer which out of nowhere has become its most endangered brand.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
The ASIAN drivers who got screwed on their BIG 3 buys are no doubt celebrating with the latest news..This all has a trickle-down effect on the economy, for Detroit is a very important contributor to the country's overall health..You will learn in due time.
The domestic/BIG 3 cars that have been ravaged on this thread were never in my stable for the 41 Detroit cars and 2 Porsches I have owned were for the most part great machines, dependable, and fun to drive..I drove cars which I deemed were able to withstand the daily drive of 200/500 miles w/o spending like time under dealer's care..Oil changes, brakes, and tires were the only big items..
I didn't buy cars to drive for 200k miles for life is too short for bragging rights of stretching a car's luck...I don't do car maintenance personally, I tell the station or dealer what to do..
It's okay that Mexico builds small Fords, we use their oil..Does Japan supply us any oil????? Canada gives us oil also...Canada is a great country---too liberal politically, but has been a fine neighbor and I found alot of great opportunity business wise over there..
Detroit may someday build a small car that will compete, but little four bangers really don't excite me..
GM U.S. May sales plunge 30 percent Tuesday June 3, 2:20 pm ET
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp (NYSE:GM - News) on Tuesday reported a 30.2 percent fall in May U.S. auto sales on an adjusted basis, led by a 39 percent decline in truck sales.
GM's overall sales fell to 272,363 vehicles in May from 375,682 in the same month a year earlier.
Err Japan doesn't really have any oil or coal for that matter. At one point we supplied Japan with oil when we were a net exporter.
According to the CIA world Fact Book, Greatest resource on the Web by the way, Japan had 125,000 barrels a day of oil production in 2006. That puts them number 50 on the world oil production list. They imported nearly 5.5 million barrels of oil a day in 2004. To put that in perspective the US produces about 3 million more barrels of oil a day then Japan Consumes.
Detroit was a very important contributor to the country's overall health.
I fixed your typo, free of charge. :P
Buying high-dollar domestic cars, then dumping them before they have a chance to fall apart on you is one way to avoid disappointment and aggravation, albeit a needlessly expensive one.
Has the best-selling U.S. vehicle ever been a subcompact? I remember that in the early 1980s the Escort and Chevette periodically claimed the number-one spot for cars, but they were still outsold by the F-150.
I think the Chevette was #1 for cars in 1981, with about 458,000 sold. That was its peak though, and the Escort ousted it for 1982. In 1980 the Citation was #1. I forget what #1 was in 1979...probably the Caprice/Impala, which they combined sales for. Although oddly, they didn't do that with the Pontiac Catalina/Bonneville.
I'm not sure what was #1 in 1983. Probably the Escort. For some reason, the top ten for 1985 always sticks in my mind. It was, in no particular order: Cavalier, Celebrity, Caprice, Delta 88, Cutlass Supreme, Cutlass Ciera, Century, Tempo, Escort, Sentra. I do remember the Ciera was #4, and the Supreme was #9 though. #1 was probably the Escort, Cavalier, or Celebrity. And again, this is just cars. I'm sure the F-series and Chevy C/K still outsold the best by a wide margin. Dodge wouldn't really be a major truck player until the 1994 Ram came out.
In 1986, I think the top selling car was the Chevy Celebrity, which I believe sold about 400K units that year. In 1987 though, I believe the Taurus knocked it off that perch. And all the while, the Accord and Camry kept rising through the ranks, and soon they'd get popular enough that the only way the Taurus could compete was dumping them into rental fleets.
motorcity6: The ASIAN drivers who got screwed on their BIG 3 buys are no doubt celebrating with the latest news..This all has a trickle-down effect on the economy, for Detroit is a very important contributor to the country's overall health..You will learn in due time.
Celebrating? No...it's not a happy day when the hometeam gets completely routed.
The people who need to learn are the ones who have repeatedly bet the farm on body-on-frame trucks and large sedans...and ignored the subcompact and family sedan segments. Not a good strategy when gasoline prices are volatile.
Don't blame customers who shopped elsewhere for their vehicles, because they didn't want an SUV or a large sedan. GM and Chrysler (and, to a lesser extent, Ford) basically told them that they really weren't interested in having them for customers.
motorcity6: Detroit may someday build a small car that will compete, but little four bangers really don't excite me..
Let me guess, you are the head of either GM's product planning or market forecasting division.
I think that the Oldsmobile Cutlass may have been number one for 1979. After the debut of the Cutlass Ciera for 1982, I seem to remember that Oldsmobile started grouping the Cutlass Ciera and Cutlass Supreme together to boost the sales figures.
I do know that, once the economy recovered in late 1982, the Cutlass, Delta 88 and Ninety-Eight were all extremely strong sellers, and remained so right up until the time GM replaced them with front-wheel-drive versions.
It's horrifying to contemplate a world where the Chevrolet Chevette was the best-selling car, but that was life in 1981...
I just added up the sales figures in my old car book, and was off a bit. The 1981 Chevette sold a total of 433,600 units. The 1981 Escort sold 320,727.
If it's any consolation though, there was one car that outsold the Chevette in 1981, although it kinda did it on, in my opinion, a technicality. That car was the Cutlass Supreme, and they ran off 481,575. However, I call it a technicality because they combined two separate markets...the mainstream midsize and the personal luxury coupe, under one nameplate. While they were both on the same platform and mechanically identical, stylistically they were notably different. In my opinion, lumping these cars together would be like lumping the Malibu and Monte Carlo together, or the LeMans and Grand Prix. Buick still kept them separate, calling the sedan and wagon Century, and the personal luxury coupe Regal. They'd throw the sedan/wagon under the Regal nameplate for '82 though, when the FWD Century came out.
Taking sedans and wagons out of the equation, Olds ran off 285,835 Cutlass Supreme coupes in 1981. Still very impressive considering the condition the economy was in at the time. Also interesting is that in 1981, Olds ran off almost as many Toronados (~43K) as they did in 1980. They actually sold MORE Ninety-Eights...around 89K versus 72K the year before. And the Delta pretty much held pat, around 168K units in '81, versus around 165K in 1980.
You have to think that the Chevette and Citation being best sellers at the time was the gain that started all the pain. Imagine coming off of a Chevette and into an 86 Accord. No wonder people never looked back.
As far as a four cylinder not being someone's cup of tea that's fine. Buy what you like. The fact is that for an enormous piece of the population a four cylinder is just what they want and saying you should buy a 6 or 8 because that's what America makes won't cut it.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
how well regarded was the early 80's Escort, back in the day? I always hated them, partly because I hated most little cars from that era, but I might be extra-biased against the Escort because my Stepdad had one! :surprise:
I know they had to be light-years more advanced than the Chevette, which was basically outmoded the day it was conceived. The Chevette may have had an edge in durability though, as they would squeak, leak, and rattle with age, probably nickle and dime you to death, but I don't think there was anything in them complicated enough to give you a big repair bill when it broke. Comparing it to the Omni/Horizon, I dunno. I've heard that with those, you either loved them or hated them.
So would the Escort have been considered the best America had to offer back in those days, when it came to subcompacts? Oh wait, I forgot about the AMC Gremlin Spirit! :shades:
I remember some of my parents friends had Escorts back in the day. I don't recall any gripes - even as a kid I liked to see how people reacted to cars. I remember one guy they knew had a K-car wagon, he hated it, always made some joke that compared it to a Model T. I remember my friend's mom had one of the early Cavalier fastbacks, this was back when I was in first grade I think...it seemed like a cool car, with somewhat racy angular styling, a sunroof, and a digital radio.
It does seem like cars improved by leaps and bounds from the dark days of the late 70s/early 80s. My mom went directly from her beloved gigantic 70s T-Bird to a Ciera - it was like a different world. Then the Ciera was replaced by a Taurus - it seemed like a generation more advanced too. My dads cars were never such a direct succession...the Horizon being replaced with a crappy S10 Blazer doesn't say much, but the Exploder that came after was again seemed 25 years more advanced. There was also a Tempo stuck in the fleet, kind of a cross between a Escort and a Taurus. It was middling, but it got to 190K before it left the family.
The first Escorts weren't too reliable in the drivetrain department. By the mid-1980s, Ford had worked out most of the problems, and the cars were reliable. My father had a 1986 Escort Pony, and it ran with minimal care. It lasted for well over 100,000 miles, and he is the type who doesn't even bother to wash his cars, let alone baby them with maintenance. A friend had a 1989 Escort sedan, and it also went for well over 100,000 miles, although the air conditioning did give up the ghost at about 80,000 miles. He refused to pay the money to get it fixed.
The Spirit benefited from AMC's lack of development money. AMC couldn't afford to re-engineer its drivetrains for better fuel economy or bodies for less weight. It had to stick with tried-and-true drivetrains and bodes, which were outdated even BEFORE the 1973 Arab oil embargo. But, unlike the Big Three, it wasn't rushing into production jury-rigged drivetrains and downsized components that didn't have the durability margins of things built in the 1960s and early 1970s.
A late 1970s AMC vehicle was crude and outdated, but also somewhat rugged for the time. If something did break, it was easy to fix, and parts could be swiped from old Gremlins and Hornets.
I think that the Spirit fastback looks good today, but even in 1979 we knew that it was woefully outdated compared to a Fox-based Mustang/Capri.
Uh, I'm still waiting for my 1989 Cadillac Brougham w/157K+ miles on it to fall apart and I don't think I'll live that long and people in my family are known for their longevity. The car doesn't even look bad. Even my beater 1988 Buick Park Avenue shows no signs of morbitity.
1981 was definately the nadir of automotive life. My Dad picked that year to buy his new Thunderbird Town Landau with its 255 V-8 churning out all of 115 horses! I had to floor that thing to get it up a hill. My 1968 Buick Special Deluxe with a 350 V-8 putting out a modest 230 hp felt like a muscle car in comparison.
need to realize that they have to match Hyundai's excellent warranty line for line, word for word, term for term, no exceptions or loopholes.
If they don't, I'd rather buy Korean before I'd go back to the domestics. At least this way, I'm not completely gambling my future purchase. Betting on the Japanese is like having 35 picks or so on a roulette table, betting on Korean is probably like picking two rows of numbers, and betting domestic, well, that can't be better than a 50/50 chance in my view.
The Germans are doing mighty fine lately (not counting the Chrysler ravaged Mercedes line). MB got dragged down into the reliability gutter from that merger. I think maybe Chrysler thought they'd be lifted UP by MB, but the opposite happened for MB.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
andres3: The Germans are doing mighty fine lately (not counting the Chrysler ravaged Mercedes line). MB got dragged down into the reliability gutter from that merger. I think maybe Chrysler thought they'd be lifted UP by MB, but the opposite happened for MB.
VW still brings up the rear in most reliability surveys. That hardly constitutes doing "fine."
Mercedes quality was sliding before the Chrysler merger. Blaming Chrysler for Mercedes lousy quality - especially given that MERCEDES was running the show, and took over Chrysler lock, stock and barrel - is quite a stretch.
Mercedes quality is lousy because it has loaded up its cars with too many gizmos, and it has failed to properly incorporate Lexus-style production processes and quality-control techniques. Which it wouldn't have incorporated even if it had never bought Chrysler, because of its arrogance and the firm belief that the German way is the best way. (Several of my maternal relatives are German, and work in the German auto industry, so I'm quite familiar with this mindset).
the good part was I supplied the inside hood release cable assy on both beasts. The Chevette was a very expensive part--around $5.00ea..OEM..About twice the cost of the other releases..
Both cars were totally worthless IMO..
I enjoy all the posts, even the critical ones, however I realize that my automotive supplier career happened during a period of industrial expansion in this country which will probably never be duplicated again..It was a ball and profitable too boot..
1968 thru 2001 were fun years..
I enjoyed the military tank business--they wore out lots of forged and cast steel track shoes..
My next door neighbor has a 1990 Nissan 300ZX t-turbo, modified with special chip, performance exhaust and K&N air filter. Has had for 10 yrs, and showing 92k miles, driven about 3k/yr now.. His daily driver is a 2002 Ford Focus STV, bought new and paid only $15,500 and showing only 36k miles now..Super little driver..Neat little pkg from the Motor City..Both cars are red..
64 yrs ago it was D-Day..Normandy Invasion..Remarkable day in history..In those days our left hand congress didn't dare diss our war efforts.. In today's arena they preach defeat...and pray for our failures....strange people..
His daily driver is a 2002 Ford Focus STV, bought new and paid only $15,500 and showing only 36k miles now..Super little driver..Neat little pkg from the Motor City.
Well. a neat package from Hermosillo, anyway. Actually, its more than that, its a terrific package, 170hp/6spd transmission in a very practical, usable body (3 or 5 dr). But wait, American's don't like hatchbacks. Ford will have to stop making one of the only cool cars they had left :sick:
heheh and Cosworth, based in England, did the engine for the SVT focus and the transmission is from Getrag, based in Germany, and is the exact same transmission from the MINI Cooper S.
The SVT focus was such a good car that it beat the MINI Cooper S in more then one comparison.
So yeah all American it is sort of, kind of but not really. It was a great car but like engineeringboy said Americans don't like hatchbacks or at least the big three are convinced they don't so Ford killed the SVT focus in 2004.
I am looking for a SVT focus right now and they are very hard to find.
So I was thinking...dangerous I know...about my fleet. Not my automotive fleet, but my bike fleet.
Cannondale 2.8R series - frame is made in the US in PA, the stem, seatpost, saddle and handlebars are made in the US, the wheels are French with Japanese hubs, and the entire drivetrain is Japanese (D/A 7700). The tires and tubes are French as well.
Cannondale Super-V - American made frame, fork, headest, front and rear shock, swiss hubs, American spokes, French rims, American cranks, and Japanese drivetrain (M727 XT).
Litespeed Catalyst - American made frame, American owned Japanese fork, American bars/stem/headset/seatpost/seat, French wheels (what can I say, Mavic rims are fantastic)/Tires/Tubes, Japanese drivetrain (D/A 7410).
Weyles F/S - Taiwanese knock off of Santa Cruz Superlight. 1/4 the quality, 1/4 the price (you get what you pay for). Japanese drivetrian, domestic disc brakes, headset, fork, stem, bar. When I get the opportunity, I would love to get a Superlight or a Blur XC, which is designed and manufactured here.
Nashbar beater - a true world bike. Pieces from just about everywhere as I cleaned my garage to get the thing put together for commuting duty. I am pretty sure it even has some Russian titanium pieces on it.
The point is, you can't have an all American bike anymore. Even if the company is based here, the manufacturing is in another country, or the components come from another country, or its only a name and has nothing to do with the old company what-so-ever (Schwinn comes to mind).
The future of the auto is a political issue, the American car and our industry is in peril..Our left side politicians have taken a stand to make sure we will be willing to pay $8.00/gallon in the future for the privilege of driving...we will give them $4.00/gallon out of $8.00 so they expand government for the cradle to grave care..
Just look at England, France, and Germany...Recent elections show the swing to the right for they are fed up...
It's all over the board IME. Some dealers have gone out of their way to take care of issues I did NOT expect them to respect, like a steering wheel that had worn away in one place - looked like a rat had knawed on it. OTOH, I've seen them dodge mechanical issues interminably.... Seems to depend upon the dealer.
Bashing really doesn't help much in any event, unless you just have to vent before you can move on to figuring out what something means, and how to deal with it.
Sort of like Lutz's blog post a year or two ago when he went off on, iirc, CAFE stuff. Doesn't help sell cars in the long run.
Hyundai and Kia are really odd ball names, not really big news at "Cocktail Parties".. Cheap and no resale value..
You could insert the words or any model from "Dodge/Jeep/GM/Chrysler/Ford/Plymouth" for Kia or Hyundai and your criticisms would still hold (mostly) true.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I had a friend who bought a new Hyundai in 1989. They were still fairly new to the US. Six months after he bought it his dash which was red, faded out to pink and several shades of pink at that. His window crank handles turned blue! The inside was a mess of different colors! The entire car was falling apart, and Hyundai did nothing. Kia and Hyundai have improved over the years, and quality is not bad, they have become the bread and butter cars for those who are trying to say money. I personally feel their safety ratings are below what I consider safe for me and my wife. Resale is great on buy here pay here lots, otherwise it's no bargain unless you drive the cars into the ground. Some banks will not finance some cars like Suzike as just one example, and they also don't want to deal with the Aztec's and Osmobiles. The fact that some cars are being financed for 82 and even 96 months, won't last as long as they are financed for.
I had a friend who bought a new Hyundai in 1989. They were still fairly new to the US. Six months after he bought it his dash which was red, faded out to pink and several shades of pink at that. His window crank handles turned blue! The inside was a mess of different colors! The entire car was falling apart, and Hyundai did nothing. Kia and Hyundai have improved over the years, and quality is not bad, they have become the bread and butter cars for those who are trying to say money. I personally feel their safety ratings are below what I consider safe for me and my wife. Resale is great on buy here pay here lots, otherwise it's no bargain unless you drive the cars into the ground. Some banks will not finance some cars like Suzike as just one example, and they also don't want to deal with the Aztec's and Osmobiles. The fact that some cars are being financed for 82 and even 96 months, won't last as long as they are financed for.
We here at Jalopnik know you want to get out on the open road this summer to make some memories, so we've chosen our favorite fuel-sipping road trip vehicles for those of us who may be hit by a little thing called "the skyrocketing price of gas." Yes, unlike the other "road trip lists" we've seen lately, these are for you, the cost-conscious consumer. And, since we're living in an increasingly globalized economy, we decided to go the extra mile and take a look at what the entire world has to offer. We're new to this whole "dealing with expensive gas" thing in America, but most everyone else got used to it years ago. But, we couldn't just pick any old hypermilling-for-the-masses vehicles; they also had to embody some of that adventurous road trip spirit as well — with a little bit of Jalopnik rolled in for good measure.
My fave:
My cousin and his family had one of the VW vans with the pup-up camper back in the 70s. We loved it at the family reunion. I think we once slept 4 kids in the pop-up cot.
Or you can go in real style and get 25 MPG guaranteed. If I had liked camping I would not have sold this one. Got better mileage than any vehicle I now have. Just a bit long to park at the supermarket. Diesel, nothing else compares. :shades:
If I had kept it I would have bought the MB grille. Mine was a Freightliner. That 5 cylinder diesel with 5 speed tiptronic was great. Up and down hills it was all you needed. I never got under 19 MPG for the 5500 miles I owned it, averaged just over 22 MPG. If I kept it at 65 or a little under it would get easy 25 MPG. And it weighed at least 8500 loaded with water, fuel, food, etc....
What did you sell it for? I know those things are pricey when new...but it seems you'd recoup the savings in gas vs a regular motorhome or 5th wheel relatively quickly.
All sorts of American trucks, including SUVs will surely be going for "bargain" prices. I am thinking of looking hard at the 2009s next fall. By the following year, 2010 remaining models may be super bargains. On the other hand, we may get the same treatment that OPEC handed us the last time they held down production. When they detected serious movement toward alternative energy looming, they suddenly found some miraculous way to increase production. They titrated this back and forth a bit until they were satisfied the prices were just below the push point, and the entrepreneurs folded up. Their efforts to develop alternative energy faded out. Congress lost the will to continue as well. Here we are. $4 gas.
It was a 2006 bought new in Dec 2005 for $58K. Licensed in in AK so that was only $35 with no tax. Sold in April 2007 for $55k with 5600 miles on the odo. We just did not have any more plans to travel so it was a waste sitting there. I saw a 2005 listed for $55k so I think they are holding their value. The only issue I had driving it was the wind when you get passed by a semi going 80 MPH. I drove it a couple times in fairly high desert winds and did not feel too much buffeting. It was nice to pull off the road by a lake and make lunch and have all the facilities. We always stayed in Motels as the campgrounds were full or too expensive. That may be the major reason for selling it. I just wish my Sequoia had that engine and transmission. I could easily squeeze 30 MPG from it.
Comments
Maybe you, I, and some of the others from this forum could start the Edmunds Forum Car company. With the Big 3 out of the way, there is room for new companies.
Heck, maybe a sheet metal manufacturer could diversify, or maybe some other USA company lookingi to diversify could get into the business. Or, maybe China will keep Japan in check? How about a Mexican designed vehicle?
General Motors plans to close 4 North American truck, SUV plants, reviews Hummer's future
link title
Has the best-selling U.S. vehicle ever been a subcompact? I remember that in the early 1980s the Escort and Chevette periodically claimed the number-one spot for cars, but they were still outsold by the F-150.
The big three will have to turn on a dime with this news. Looks like GM already got the message as they are closing 4 truck plants and trying to decide what to do about Hummer which out of nowhere has become its most endangered brand.
The domestic/BIG 3 cars that have been ravaged on this thread were never in my stable for the 41 Detroit cars and 2 Porsches I have owned were for the most part great machines, dependable, and fun to drive..I drove cars which I deemed were able to withstand the daily drive of 200/500 miles w/o spending like time under dealer's care..Oil changes, brakes, and tires were the only big items..
I didn't buy cars to drive for 200k miles for life is too short for bragging rights of stretching a car's luck...I don't do car maintenance personally, I tell the station or dealer what to do..
It's okay that Mexico builds small Fords, we use their oil..Does Japan supply us any oil????? Canada gives us oil also...Canada is a great country---too liberal politically, but has been a fine neighbor and I found alot of great opportunity business wise over there..
Detroit may someday build a small car that will compete, but little four bangers really don't excite me..
Tuesday June 3, 2:20 pm ET
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp (NYSE:GM - News) on Tuesday reported a 30.2 percent fall in May U.S. auto sales on an adjusted basis, led by a 39 percent decline in truck sales.
GM's overall sales fell to 272,363 vehicles in May from 375,682 in the same month a year earlier.
Regards,
OW
According to the CIA world Fact Book, Greatest resource on the Web by the way, Japan had 125,000 barrels a day of oil production in 2006. That puts them number 50 on the world oil production list. They imported nearly 5.5 million barrels of oil a day in 2004. To put that in perspective the US produces about 3 million more barrels of oil a day then Japan Consumes.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ja.html#Econ
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html#Econ
Random interesting fact about Japan.
They have the highest public debt of any country when represented as a percentage of GDP.
194.4 percent of GDP :surprise:
Ouch
I fixed your typo, free of charge. :P
Buying high-dollar domestic cars, then dumping them before they have a chance to fall apart on you is one way to avoid disappointment and aggravation, albeit a needlessly expensive one.
I think the Chevette was #1 for cars in 1981, with about 458,000 sold. That was its peak though, and the Escort ousted it for 1982. In 1980 the Citation was #1. I forget what #1 was in 1979...probably the Caprice/Impala, which they combined sales for. Although oddly, they didn't do that with the Pontiac Catalina/Bonneville.
I'm not sure what was #1 in 1983. Probably the Escort. For some reason, the top ten for 1985 always sticks in my mind. It was, in no particular order: Cavalier, Celebrity, Caprice, Delta 88, Cutlass Supreme, Cutlass Ciera, Century, Tempo, Escort, Sentra. I do remember the Ciera was #4, and the Supreme was #9 though. #1 was probably the Escort, Cavalier, or Celebrity. And again, this is just cars. I'm sure the F-series and Chevy C/K still outsold the best by a wide margin. Dodge wouldn't really be a major truck player until the 1994 Ram came out.
In 1986, I think the top selling car was the Chevy Celebrity, which I believe sold about 400K units that year. In 1987 though, I believe the Taurus knocked it off that perch. And all the while, the Accord and Camry kept rising through the ranks, and soon they'd get popular enough that the only way the Taurus could compete was dumping them into rental fleets.
Celebrating? No...it's not a happy day when the hometeam gets completely routed.
The people who need to learn are the ones who have repeatedly bet the farm on body-on-frame trucks and large sedans...and ignored the subcompact and family sedan segments. Not a good strategy when gasoline prices are volatile.
Don't blame customers who shopped elsewhere for their vehicles, because they didn't want an SUV or a large sedan. GM and Chrysler (and, to a lesser extent, Ford) basically told them that they really weren't interested in having them for customers.
motorcity6: Detroit may someday build a small car that will compete, but little four bangers really don't excite me..
Let me guess, you are the head of either GM's product planning or market forecasting division.
I do know that, once the economy recovered in late 1982, the Cutlass, Delta 88 and Ninety-Eight were all extremely strong sellers, and remained so right up until the time GM replaced them with front-wheel-drive versions.
It's horrifying to contemplate a world where the Chevrolet Chevette was the best-selling car, but that was life in 1981...
If it's any consolation though, there was one car that outsold the Chevette in 1981, although it kinda did it on, in my opinion, a technicality. That car was the Cutlass Supreme, and they ran off 481,575. However, I call it a technicality because they combined two separate markets...the mainstream midsize and the personal luxury coupe, under one nameplate. While they were both on the same platform and mechanically identical, stylistically they were notably different. In my opinion, lumping these cars together would be like lumping the Malibu and Monte Carlo together, or the LeMans and Grand Prix. Buick still kept them separate, calling the sedan and wagon Century, and the personal luxury coupe Regal. They'd throw the sedan/wagon under the Regal nameplate for '82 though, when the FWD Century came out.
Taking sedans and wagons out of the equation, Olds ran off 285,835 Cutlass Supreme coupes in 1981. Still very impressive considering the condition the economy was in at the time. Also interesting is that in 1981, Olds ran off almost as many Toronados (~43K) as they did in 1980. They actually sold MORE Ninety-Eights...around 89K versus 72K the year before. And the Delta pretty much held pat, around 168K units in '81, versus around 165K in 1980.
As far as a four cylinder not being someone's cup of tea that's fine. Buy what you like. The fact is that for an enormous piece of the population a four cylinder is just what they want and saying you should buy a 6 or 8 because that's what America makes won't cut it.
I know they had to be light-years more advanced than the Chevette, which was basically outmoded the day it was conceived. The Chevette may have had an edge in durability though, as they would squeak, leak, and rattle with age, probably nickle and dime you to death, but I don't think there was anything in them complicated enough to give you a big repair bill when it broke. Comparing it to the Omni/Horizon, I dunno. I've heard that with those, you either loved them or hated them.
So would the Escort have been considered the best America had to offer back in those days, when it came to subcompacts? Oh wait, I forgot about the AMC
GremlinSpirit! :shades:It does seem like cars improved by leaps and bounds from the dark days of the late 70s/early 80s. My mom went directly from her beloved gigantic 70s T-Bird to a Ciera - it was like a different world. Then the Ciera was replaced by a Taurus - it seemed like a generation more advanced too. My dads cars were never such a direct succession...the Horizon being replaced with a crappy S10 Blazer doesn't say much, but the Exploder that came after was again seemed 25 years more advanced. There was also a Tempo stuck in the fleet, kind of a cross between a Escort and a Taurus. It was middling, but it got to 190K before it left the family.
The Spirit benefited from AMC's lack of development money. AMC couldn't afford to re-engineer its drivetrains for better fuel economy or bodies for less weight. It had to stick with tried-and-true drivetrains and bodes, which were outdated even BEFORE the 1973 Arab oil embargo. But, unlike the Big Three, it wasn't rushing into production jury-rigged drivetrains and downsized components that didn't have the durability margins of things built in the 1960s and early 1970s.
A late 1970s AMC vehicle was crude and outdated, but also somewhat rugged for the time. If something did break, it was easy to fix, and parts could be swiped from old Gremlins and Hornets.
I think that the Spirit fastback looks good today, but even in 1979 we knew that it was woefully outdated compared to a Fox-based Mustang/Capri.
link title
This sums it up for American Auto:
"There's not much I can do about what I didn't do in the past," he said.
Regards,
OW
If they don't, I'd rather buy Korean before I'd go back to the domestics. At least this way, I'm not completely gambling my future purchase. Betting on the Japanese is like having 35 picks or so on a roulette table, betting on Korean is probably like picking two rows of numbers, and betting domestic, well, that can't be better than a 50/50 chance in my view.
The Germans are doing mighty fine lately (not counting the Chrysler ravaged Mercedes line). MB got dragged down into the reliability gutter from that merger. I think maybe Chrysler thought they'd be lifted UP by MB, but the opposite happened for MB.
GM is leading after all.
Regards,
OW
VW still brings up the rear in most reliability surveys. That hardly constitutes doing
"fine."
Mercedes quality was sliding before the Chrysler merger. Blaming Chrysler for Mercedes lousy quality - especially given that MERCEDES was running the show, and took over Chrysler lock, stock and barrel - is quite a stretch.
Mercedes quality is lousy because it has loaded up its cars with too many gizmos, and it has failed to properly incorporate Lexus-style production processes and quality-control techniques. Which it wouldn't have incorporated even if it had never bought Chrysler, because of its arrogance and the firm belief that the German way is the best way. (Several of my maternal relatives are German, and work in the German auto industry, so I'm quite familiar with this mindset).
Not anymore, unfortunately...
Both cars were totally worthless IMO..
I enjoy all the posts, even the critical ones, however I realize that my automotive supplier career happened during a period of industrial expansion in this country which will probably never be duplicated again..It was a ball and profitable too boot..
1968 thru 2001 were fun years..
I enjoyed the military tank business--they wore out lots of forged and cast steel track shoes..
My next door neighbor has a 1990 Nissan 300ZX t-turbo, modified with special chip, performance exhaust and K&N air filter. Has had for 10 yrs, and showing 92k miles, driven about 3k/yr now.. His daily driver is a 2002 Ford Focus STV, bought new and paid only $15,500 and showing only 36k miles now..Super little driver..Neat little pkg from the Motor City..Both cars are red..
64 yrs ago it was D-Day..Normandy Invasion..Remarkable day in history..In those days our left hand congress didn't dare diss our war efforts.. In today's arena they preach defeat...and pray for our failures....strange people..
Well. a neat package from Hermosillo, anyway. Actually, its more than that, its a terrific package, 170hp/6spd transmission in a very practical, usable body (3 or 5 dr).
But wait, American's don't like hatchbacks. Ford will have to stop making one of the only cool cars they had left :sick:
The SVT focus was such a good car that it beat the MINI Cooper S in more then one comparison.
So yeah all American it is sort of, kind of but not really. It was a great car but like engineeringboy said Americans don't like hatchbacks or at least the big three are convinced they don't so Ford killed the SVT focus in 2004.
I am looking for a SVT focus right now and they are very hard to find.
Well, then you better make sure you buy new all the time as Hyundai's warranty is non transferable, whereas GM's is.
But I guess it's time for this reminder:
pf_flyer, "Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?" #35, 4 Jan 2006 12:58 pm
Cannondale 2.8R series - frame is made in the US in PA, the stem, seatpost, saddle and handlebars are made in the US, the wheels are French with Japanese hubs, and the entire drivetrain is Japanese (D/A 7700). The tires and tubes are French as well.
Cannondale Super-V - American made frame, fork, headest, front and rear shock, swiss hubs, American spokes, French rims, American cranks, and Japanese drivetrain (M727 XT).
Litespeed Catalyst - American made frame, American owned Japanese fork, American bars/stem/headset/seatpost/seat, French wheels (what can I say, Mavic rims are fantastic)/Tires/Tubes, Japanese drivetrain (D/A 7410).
Weyles F/S - Taiwanese knock off of Santa Cruz Superlight. 1/4 the quality, 1/4 the price (you get what you pay for). Japanese drivetrian, domestic disc brakes, headset, fork, stem, bar. When I get the opportunity, I would love to get a Superlight or a Blur XC, which is designed and manufactured here.
Nashbar beater - a true world bike. Pieces from just about everywhere as I cleaned my garage to get the thing put together for commuting duty. I am pretty sure it even has some Russian titanium pieces on it.
The point is, you can't have an all American bike anymore. Even if the company is based here, the manufacturing is in another country, or the components come from another country, or its only a name and has nothing to do with the old company what-so-ever (Schwinn comes to mind).
Just look at England, France, and Germany...Recent elections show the swing to the right for they are fed up...
Think I would pass on them...
They are heavily subsidized by their national govt...
Tell me how the ten yr warranty works out??????
Sort of like Lutz's blog post a year or two ago when he went off on, iirc, CAFE stuff. Doesn't help sell cars in the long run.
You could insert the words or any model from "Dodge/Jeep/GM/Chrysler/Ford/Plymouth" for Kia or Hyundai and your criticisms would still hold (mostly) true.
Regards,
OW
Kia and Hyundai have improved over the years, and quality is not bad, they have become the bread and butter cars for those who are trying to say money. I personally feel their safety ratings are below what I consider safe for me and my wife. Resale is great on buy here pay here lots, otherwise it's no bargain unless you drive the cars into the ground.
Some banks will not finance some cars like Suzike as just one example, and they also don't want to deal with the Aztec's and Osmobiles. The fact that some cars are being financed for 82 and even 96 months, won't last as long as they are financed for.
farout
Kia and Hyundai have improved over the years, and quality is not bad, they have become the bread and butter cars for those who are trying to say money. I personally feel their safety ratings are below what I consider safe for me and my wife. Resale is great on buy here pay here lots, otherwise it's no bargain unless you drive the cars into the ground.
Some banks will not finance some cars like Suzike as just one example, and they also don't want to deal with the Aztec's and Osmobiles. The fact that some cars are being financed for 82 and even 96 months, won't last as long as they are financed for.
farout
Cars/Vehicles we only WISH we could buy here - DANGIT !!!
We here at Jalopnik know you want to get out on the open road this summer to make some memories, so we've chosen our favorite fuel-sipping road trip vehicles for those of us who may be hit by a little thing called "the skyrocketing price of gas." Yes, unlike the other "road trip lists" we've seen lately, these are for you, the cost-conscious consumer. And, since we're living in an increasingly globalized economy, we decided to go the extra mile and take a look at what the entire world has to offer. We're new to this whole "dealing with expensive gas" thing in America, but most everyone else got used to it years ago. But, we couldn't just pick any old hypermilling-for-the-masses vehicles; they also had to embody some of that adventurous road trip spirit as well — with a little bit of Jalopnik rolled in for good measure.
My fave:
My cousin and his family had one of the VW vans with the pup-up camper back in the 70s. We loved it at the family reunion. I think we once slept 4 kids in the pop-up cot.
I like the old school Citi Golf from that other market cars link. NA is easily the most dumbed down car market on the planet.
RV slump inflicts casualties (Edmonton Journal)