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Or the PC monitor you are reading this mail on?
Or the keyboard that you are going to type the retort on?
You don't see this as a problem??? Right now, what choice do we have??
I make my own fabric but it's a tad warm to be wearing a rag rug.
This guy says you can't turn globalization into a win/lose proposition. Rising tide and all that.
This other guy says that the economics and vulnerability associated with a 12,000 mile supply chain will bring manufacturing jobs back to NA. So, if you want more stuff to be made here, better lobby to keep oil prices high.
Like I said about Tesla, the auto companies need to be patrol-boat size not battleship-class as in the past. More nimble and flexible is the key.
I say break up the big three into the tiny 15. Each brand a separate company with US owner/workers. I would love to be a part of a small manufacturer of high quality efficient cars. How 'bout you?
Regards,
OW
That very well may be the end result. It is the pain in the interim that may cause a depression. The EU has had high fuel prices for a long time. I am sure they were gradually taxed to death. We have doubled the price of gas in a year with no real rise in people's income. With a 6 figure retirement there is not much to worry about. When you are making $9 per hour it can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. The other side of the equation. I wonder if the average woman in this country would sit over a sewing machine for 10 hours a day as my mother and grandmother did during the war and into the early 1950s? I pay a man that drives up from Tijuana $12.50 per hour to do yard work. He works very hard for 8 hours in the sun. I cannot get any of the nephews to do half as much work in a day. The hard working boys from church all have full time construction jobs now.
I would love to see more products Made in the USA. I just wonder if we have the people willing to do the work. Keeping in mind the factories right across the border are paying less than $20 per day.
There's already dozens (100s?) of suppliers, so why not. On the other hand....
One example - there seems to be a bunch of small kayaking/rafting companies out there making inflatable boats or throw bags or life jackets. When you look closer though, one or two holding companies own most of them, and you just think they are little guys. You get some economies of scale in negotiating with suppliers, ad firms and maybe there's some product liability savings.
So perhaps GM and Ford could just merge but let the brands operate more or less independently. .
We all seem to post our opinions with the assumption that economics are static, rather than dynamic...we want our shoes and shirts to be made here, paying our people $25/hour, instead of China (or choose your favorite 3rd world country...India, Mexico, Singapore, Vietnam, Great Britain [...:):):)...}, where they are paid $2/day...yet we assume that the retail price of the product will remain the same...
If shirt workers in South Carolina are paid $25/hour, we WILL have jobs in this country...but, instead of buying Walmart shirts for $12 each, they will be $25-40 each...we will not pay more for the labor without the retail price going up, that is what I mean by dynamic...many folks just assume that the entire structure will remain the same even tho the labor cost is 12 times higher, and that, simply, is not true...
So, the average American guy, making, say, $15/hour, can no longer buy 5 shirts for $60, he can only buy 2 for $60...that means that the shirt lines in SC will only have need for fewer workers than the China line...yes, the jobs will be here, but how many???...how many of you out there buy custom made shirts from American shirtmakers for $60-75 each???...if everybody had custom shirts like that, the shirt industry would EXPLODE in America...but do you see everyone in WalMart buying shirts for $75 each, and buying 5 at a time???...I don't...
Too many people who lament the jobs going to China will be the FIRST to scream at paying $75 per shirt, "just to keep the jobs in America"...they all seem to believe that shirtmakers will sell their American shirts at cost or below cost, because they simply do not comprehend how labor costs are part of the retail cost...remember, these are the same people who, when they get a $100 tax refund, will say they paid no taxes, when they really paid about $5000, but they overpaid so the refund makes them think they paid no taxes...yes, these are the people who may someday grow up and make our laws, and that scares me more than anything...
So, my point is that if no jobs had been sent overseas, and all the labor was American labor at, say, $25-45 per hour, I really question just how much American goods would be flying off the shelves at prices few could afford...stores would need fewer clerks, stockroom people and cashiers as less merhcandise would be selling, fewer cars would be bought because of higher prices, so the entire auto industry would be smaller, having nothing to do with current oil prices...
People who buy China shirts for $12 would not have the extra money left over to take the family out to eat, so restaurants would wither away, except in wealthy areas...McDonalds would be history, because breadwinners would be buying shirts for $30 each, so nobody goes out to eat...the growth of McDonalds, Wendys, Dennys probably tracks the growth of Walmart as shirt prices went down from being made in China...if WalMart did not lower prices, the other avenues for people's money would not have grown if all that income went to buying clothes...it is NOT static, it is dynamic...if one necessary item costs more, than other discretionary items will see less business...
And, while I am at it, I do not lament the loss of Mom and Pop stores, because Mom and Pop have been raping us for years...a former office of mine needed special U-shaped fluorscent bulbs...local Mom and Pop hardware sold them for $16.50 each, so $50 bought 3...35 miles away, a new store called Home Depot opened up, selling the same bulb for $5.50...now, 3 bulbs cost $17, leaving $33 left over, make it $25 after gas costs to drive there, and, suddenly, we had a free dinner at a local restaurant, which would have never had my business if the money was spent at Mom and Pop...sorry, while empty storefronts may temporarily look bad on Main Street, having the townspeople ALL have extra $$$ in their pockets by abandoniong Mom and Pop is truly a better thing for EVERY family in town...there is nothing sacred about Mom and Pop except that they ripped us off for 50 years, and now the chickens are coming home to roost...new businesses WILL take the space of where Mom and Pop deserted their stores, and the DYNAMIC part of capitalism will shine again...
Temporary end of economic rant...but better than any left-wing liberal explanation of those "mean" big box stores that put Mom and Pop out of business...
VW has had factories here in the past. Good to see them expanding here.
It's not a liberal ideal, either. But some people like to put a political slant/whine to everything, even if the neocon criminals they embrace have done nothing positive themselves.
1. Protection breeds incompetence - Japan would not be a competitive economy if it was protecting its industries (since it is no longer the cheapest place to manufacture). We buy our aircrafts from Boeing (or now Airbus), fast food from McDonald, soft drinks from Coke, financial services from Citibank and Goldman Sachs, movies from Hollywood. My T-shirt (that I am wearing right now) is made in China, the keyboard is made in Malaysia, the LCD panes in Korea, OS is from Microsoft, and of course the CPU from Intel. For all these products there are (or were..) Japanese alternatives - which have failed to compete against imports.
2. Our CEOs and top executives get paid a small fraction of their US counterparts, and the companies (well, most of them) put employees above shareholders.
So maybe it is the companies that protect the workers?
That is different from Japan as a country protecting workers. And companies placing workers before shareholders is a philosophical difference, with its own pros and cons. So US will have more Rolex wearing lawyers, Investment Bankers, Marketing Whiz kids - and Japan will have more denim wearing factory line workers. Just two different paths chosen by the business leaders....
Bail out GM instead.
Actually, and to be serious, I don't think the banks should be bailed out either - let water seek it's own level here, and let the market dictate who survives. In the end, that's always better. Same with the car makers. It's painful, but better in the end.
Lotsa what ifs!!!!!
nvbanker obviously has a handle on the industry as well as the give away programs to keep our financial guys afloat..
The Big3 has also suffered loss of their supplier base which for years was strictly USA owned and operated..The Japanese established their transplant wholly owned Japanese supplier base during the 80s..which has supplied 85% of the Honda or Toyota parts at their various assembly locations in the states..The traditional Big3 supplier maybe got 15%..or that 15% came from offshore, China or mainland Japan. Now we really don't know where anything comes from and we don't really care..
The Big3 will need help from somewhere, the [non-permissible content removed] for years were subsidized by the Japanese govt.and by our federal and state govts. in order to break into the American market. Our politicans made it possible for them to invade our country. I don't remember any reciprocal agreements going the other way..big tariffs..their deal. hindsight--they won't want our junky cars anyway..
The gradual creep of the foreign car invasion took 25 yrs and we is now up the creek with no paddle..and about to go over the dam..Bend over and kiss your backside----Good bye..
The socialism event has been building since the depression and it is rolling with along with Hope and Change--you figure it out and I know you will be happy w/o your freedoms, just as long as you can have your Asian named car Hon,Toy,Hun, and Kia..along with your computer and a membership to Costco, Sam's and a free pass to WalMart.. Mainstreet America, Mom & Pop stores were great, too bad most of you missed it..
Never tried driving a [non-permissible content removed] car when calling on the Big3 or their suppliers, maybe I could have retired 30 yrs ago. and still be driving the same car..
Never regretted working for a company where the profit line was important and never invested in a company where profits didn't matter..
Spent yesterday with a family member who has been in China for the last 12yrs in the Auto supplier end. Joint-venture with a North American company-set up 4 new plts in the Asian area and looking to jump ship to join another supplier in the auto realm needing plants in China, India, and other countries..Not an easy life but profitable and will try another 4yrs of it..They live in an American community where the company pays the housing and the schooling, big bucks!!!!!
Remember me-41Big3s and 2Porsches...$ premium is 4.16, regular 3.96 and the GPGT is now up to 22.46mpgs, last fillup. The triple digit run for a few miles on I-75 cleared out the cobwebs..All is well in Venice, Fla...and the energy bust is coming..Yes the local Chevy dealer has a Trailblazer SS, regular gas, 390 hp, mileage is 12/16....what a footprint!!!!
Unless you happened to buy something (usually overpriced) and it didn't work like it was supposed to. Most of them would never take anything back, unlike the big box stores.
The ones that did value customer service a bit more than simply chasing the bottom line hung around or went on to become LL Bean.
While we have watched inflation over the last 30 years, isn't it interesting to note that, thanks to the big box stores, prices probably went DOWN when compared to Mom & Pop, which means EVERY American who shopped big box now had more disposable income than before,,,what is wrong with that???...nothing...
Aside from the silly nostalgic idea of Mom & Pop, there is NO reason at all why anything should be done to save Mom & Pop...they are economic dinosaurs and I say good riddance...the empty stores on Main Street will fill in with new businesses, but no one understands the concept of TIME...just like when military bases closed in the 1990s, and military towns said they would wither and die, but some forward thinking towns took the land and made them into Green Space, industrial parks and brought in new businesses, as now the land was taxable, whereas as a military base it was not...
Everybody thinks that two days after Mom & Pop close something else will move in...evolution takes time...
One store also chose to evolve with the times...we have multiple ACE Hardware stores here, and they are all Mom & Pop stores that joined collectiveley to buy cheaper and compete with Home Depot...I always go there first, their prices are within 5-10% of Home Depot/Lowes, and I will pay for the personalized service...but they chose to COMPETE by intelligent methods rather than be run over by big box...
It isn't just the Big 3 that have to change, everything must change...change is painful, and takes time, but the survivors will be leaner and meaner, and we will benefit...the Big 3 simply have taken this long to realize that they ARE competing with the Japanese, not just for a few car sales, but for their very survival...
Sometime in 2009, GM and Ford WILL declare Chapter 11, jettison and finally kill off the UAW, dump the deadwood, and then they will awaken from a deep slumber and finally compete, "kickin' and a-gougin' in the mud, and the blood, and the beer" (with thanks to A Boy Named Sue)
Then American cars with superb quality will arise from the ashes, and we will be strong again...
However I heartily agree that the attitude can make it work. Indeed ACE hardware has done just that. They offer what Lowes and Home Depot and Menards don't always offer; that's someone knowledgeable in a trade to help you fit together plumbing and electrical repairs, e.g. Yes, Lowes and Home Depot do have those.
But I learned to go during 7 - 4 pm when I need something. When I completely remodeled the kitchen I made 7 trips to Lowes in one day. And the people employed there have varied and the companies try to meet the stock reporting requirements for the quarter. People come and go.
The same people are at the local ACE. There is another large hardware chain in a nearby small town and I visit their store sometimes (there's a car cruisein in the plaza parking lot weekly).
Those small businesses are giving Lowes and Home Depot concern because they are listed in the online questionnaire about how service was at Lowes on your recent visit.
>declare Chapter 11, jettison and finally kill off the UAW, dump the deadwood,
Is that deadwood at the highly overpaid top or is that the UAW? When GM and Ford revert to Japanese pay scales for management then we'll know they're on the way back.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
With a lot of those Mom & Pop stores, I guess it's also possible that the store wasn't the only source of income. My grandmother's Uncle Luther, for instance, worked as a carpenter for the federal gov't. I think Aunt Carrie pretty much ran the store. With just two of them running it though, and it not offering a full variety of merchandise, I'd imagine their hours must have been spotty, and it just wasn't the convenient for the typical customer.
I don't know what, exactly, drove them out of business. I'd imagine it was just them getting up in years. Also, in the 40's, with WWII and then the post-war boom, I guess it could just be that Uncle Luther was too busy with his job. And as bigger supermarkets started popping up, that probably put some pressure on them. Probbably got harder for the smaller businesses to get distributors to come to them, too, as they'd be putting more effort into larger accounts.
Uncle Luther and Aunt Carrie never had any kids, so they just passed everything on to my grandparents. The store was long since closed by then, but even if it hadn't been, I doubt if my grandparents would have had the interest to keep running it. Granddad was a farmer and also did mechanic work on the side, while Grandmom did various government clerical/transcriptionist/medical record type jobs, and in the 50's and 60's, even raised foster kids.
There is still one Mom & Pop place in existence, about 3-4 miles away. It even has two gas pumps out in front and, believe it or not, their fuel prices are competitive! I haven't been in there in ages, partly because I rarely drive that way, and when I do, traffic is bad enough on that road, and their parking is tight, that it just seems kinda dangerous. I remember their prices being competitive with something like a 7-Eleven, at least.
I think, by and large, those Mom & Pop stores are quaint reminders of a bygone era that many of us never even experienced, other than what we might have seen in repeats of "Little House on the Prairie" or "The Waltons". And there are areas of the country, I'm sure, where they're still feasible. But in other areas, they were on the decline long before the likes of WalMart, Lowes, Best Buy, etc, ever came out.
And heck, even in those quaint, rose-tinted-glasses, old days, Mrs. Oleson would rip you off without even thinking twice, whenever Nels was out of earshot. :surprise:
If it makes you feel any better, there is something huge about the US which Japan does not have - The American dream. We cannot imagine living in the luxurious houses with 7 car garages that successful Americans live in.
Like I said - Pros and cons.....
Well, come on out to my neighborhood, and I'll show you a few of those nice mansions that are in foreclosure, and a few others that are being listed for 75-80% of what they sold for just 2 years ago. A lot of people are busting their butts and over-extending themselves, credit-wise, just to put up the illusion of living that American Dream.
I always thought the American Dream was owning your own house, car in every garage, and a chicken in every pot. Didn't say anything about McMansions "purchased", if you can call it that, with interest-only loans and blingy cars that carry 8-year terms. That type of American Dream is really a form of slavery. You end up having to work your butt off and going up to your armpits in debt just to maintain that image.
While I could never really understand why an analyst (who just puts a "buy" or "sell" on companies) or investment banker (who actually buys or sells them) would be paid a fortune without even having the faintest idea of what it took for the underlying businesses to compete, survive, grow for years and years, I have to say I was beginning to feel that US had something we in Japan were unable to simply comprehend (to our disadvantage) - namely, manufacturing is a commodity, it is the buying and selling that adds value (or "capital reallocation" as the cufflink clad dudes would call it).
I am still not sure which side has got it right, but the next 2-3 years are going to give the answer....I think.
If we took the Japanese view of saving first and buying when we could afford it, we would not find ourselves enslaved to the finance company. Crazy low interest rates used to stimulate buying is actually killing the American dream.
Interestingly the Japanese people are very good savers. The Japanese government is in debt much worse than our government. It is surprising they vote big spenders into their government. Maybe their politicians are as big a liars as ours.
My wife prior to our marriage owned several MB & Porsche cars. She always saved up the money and paid cash. The only interest she has ever paid is on a home mortgage. She would buy a new car then put the old one on the market to get the best possible price. She has kept her last car, the LS400 for 19 years. It is amazing how much you can save when you are not making payments to a lender. It is a shame they do not teach sound economics in High School.
Regards,
OW
Let it happen and it will. That is why people around the world are still eager to get into the US to share the dream.
Some of us have lost our way but the dream still persists and is attainable. The big 3 used to be part of that dream. They lost their way long ago. Now change will manage them.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Two days after Mom & Pop close, something ALWAYS moves in - drug dealers, crackheads, thugs, hookers, graffiti, gangs, you name it!
Seems like the American Dream always boiled down to cars first, then McMansions. There's scads of 20-somethings living at home because all their income goes to pay for their shiny new car and the car insurance.
Is that deadwood at the highly overpaid top or is that the UAW? When GM and Ford revert to Japanese pay scales for management then we'll know they're on the way back"
Both............................
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM mulling thousands of job cuts, sale of brands: report
link title
It's getting to be even more of a gamble to buy a GM vehicle. While not in complete truth, these perceptions are real and growing.
Regards,
OW
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20080706_China_is_a_rising_star__but_unus- ually_weak_and_poor.html
Regards,
OW
Bob, nothing's wrong w/ that provided pay is commensurate to what it was 30 or so yrs. ago. Remember, we are in this terrific slump now not because we lost our disposable income, but because our credit dried up. CREDIT, in whatever form, is what drove the economy for the last 15 years.
While I don't lament the loss of Mom&Pops, I do feel that there is something inherently WRONG with such a small sector of our country (WalMart, Home Depot, Big Oil, etc) getting such a large portion of our income.
If Mom and Pop (hereafter M&P) sold a drill for $150 and Home Depot sold it for $75, why should I be forced to buy from M&P???
Why can't I save $$$ by using the buying power of the big box???
You are right, however, that pay has not kept up with inflation...the purchase price of a car or home takes up more of the weekly income than before, which is why we have 5,6,7,8 year car loans...no one needed GAP insurance when cars were financed for 36 months, as the car depreciated the same rate as the loan was paid down...not anymore...
Then again, we must see the economy as dynamic and not static...if the price of a car becomes unaffordable for the vast majority, simple supply and demand will either lower the price or cause the car to no longer be made...again, sometimes painful, but nobody said life was fair, but, in the end, the market will rule...
The fact that someone may not get what they want is also what is wrong with this country of instant gratification...if someone can't afford something, then something must be done to make it affordable...how about telling someone "you don't make enough money to buy this, try something else"...that is why we have the housing crisis, because no one had the guts tell anyone that they could not rationally afford the home they wanted, plus our gov't did not want to be called racist, so folks with a job at WalMart were getting mortgages for $300K...
The market has spoken...think of it like an airplane going straight up, and someone shuts off the engines...inertia will keep it flying against gravity, until it cannot do it, and then it crashes...just like housing...
Things will continue on the path they are going, until they stop...
Yeah, technological stuff like computers, televisions, electronics, etc tend to come down in price as they advance. My grandparents bought a 25" console tv from Montgomery Ward back in 1972. Sucker was $700. It had one speaker and no remote control. Adjusted for inflation, that would easily be $3500 today.
Yet around Christmas time, my roommate bought a 50" hi-def plasma tv with stereo speakers, a remote control, and all sorts of hookup ports. It was about $1200, out the door, with an extended warranty.
Truthfully, I think when you adjust for inflation, and compare similar models, cars are probably more affordable today than they were in the past. For instance, in late 1984, my grandparents bought a new '85 LeSabre Limited for $16,200. I think that was the out-the-door price...tax, tags, everything. Adjusted for inflation, that would be about $33K today. But today, I imagine that would get you into a nice V-8 Lucerne that's going to have ABS, fuel injection, leather, sunroof, more power adjustments, a more versatile cruise control, a better sound system, alloy wheels, etc. It wouldn't be able to seat 6 people as comfortably, and would lose a bit of trunk space, and the interior wouldn't be quite as cushy, but you're getting a lot more than you're giving up.
My grandparents bought a new Impala in 1972, for about $5,000. It was a 4-door hardtop. 350-2bbl, automatic, ps/pb, a/c, and an AM/FM radio. Adjusted for inflation, that's about $25K today. Now in this case, I wouldn't compare a 2008 Impala to a 1972 Impala, as that was a whole different breed of car. IMO, today's Impala is more like 1972's Malibu. Still, think of how much Grand Marquis you could get nowadays for $25K.
Heck, even in the past few years, I don't think car prices have really kept up with inflation. My 2000 Intrepid ended up being about $22,389 out the door, which included a $1200 extended warranty that I never had to use. While that doesn't seem that long ago, adjusted for inflation, that would be about $28,370 today. My Mom & stepdad recently bought a 2008 Altima, 2.5SL I think it was. It was about $24K out the door. It has a sunroof, leather, ABS, and alloy wheels...all things my Intrepid doesn't have. Now it just has a 4-cyl, whereas my Intrepid has a V-6, but they're close in size...2.5L versus 2.7L. The 2008 Altima is quicker, even with the 4-cyl. Like the Lucerne/'85 LeSabre comparison, going from an Intrepid to an '08 Altima would give up a bit of interior room. With 4 people on board you probably wouldn't notice, but add a 5th in back, and it would be tighter. And trunk space drops from about 18 cubic feet to around 15. So if you need the extra room, you lose some utility, with the Altima, but it's probably more than enough for most people.
I think the main reason people struggle so much with cars today is that, far too often, people just buy more car than they can afford. Instead of replacing their old car with something similar, they try to go upscale and beyond their means.
But then, even if, adjusted for inflation, cars are relatively cheap, there are other factors at play. Social security taxes are higher now than they were in the old days. Health insurance is more expensive. Most people have to fund their own retirement through 401k plans and other means. Property taxes in many areas have shot up faster than inflation. Plus, there are just so many more things to spend your money on, in today's consumer driven society. I remember when I was a kid, my Mom would buy me ONE new pair of sneakers, and when they wore out, I'd get another. Nowadays, kids often have multiple pairs, so they can coordinate with their outfits!
Inquiring minds want to know........................................
They just tie the laces of the two shoes together, and then throw them up at the power lines, or at a tree limb, until they finally catch. There's actually a bunch of theories as to why it's done.
I don't think that WalMart wants to stomp out M&P's, they're just collateral damage. They want to stomp out KMart, Sears, Kohl's, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. to be the ONLY game in town. They want ALL our money.
I suppose that the best part of free market capitalism is that SOMEBODY can come along with a better idea and trump even a WalMart or CVS. But, if they get so big that they can influence local, state and the fed. governments to pass laws and ordinances that make it hard for others to join the game, that's what worries me. That's why we have antitrust laws.
Do I expect the government to limit the size of these companies??? No. But I think that we should stop and think about it, and make a conscientious effort to spread the wealth, so that the competition stays in business. If you look at other stores, you'd be surprised how competitive they are pricewise with a WalMart or CVS.
BTW, it's guys like ME who have to take them G@&&@**#D shoes off the lines :mad: